Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 310084

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

The interpretation of my symptoms...

Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2004, at 6:22:54

Ok. So I have done many years (about four) of CBT and done skills and cognitive restructuring etc. I don't get to talk about what is going on for me much because typically clinicians focus on the diagnosis (BPD) and figure they know what symptoms they are targeting (by definition if you like).

But I hear voices. So I have been on a variety of antipsychotics and they are unaffected and that topic is off limits. (Beyond telling me to distract myself from them and ignore them).

But I miss time. And when I say this I am terminated for 'not taking responsibility for my actions' and so on.

And so I don't really talk about it. But I have read about it and I know what I am thinking and I am scaired. So I tell my T that I am afraid because I think that that might be wrong with me and she terminates me. My p-doc terminated me with 'voices are psychotic by defitnition, you hear voices ergo you are psychotic, here - have a shot...'.

That was the last batch. Then I fought for a year for treatment and now I have a T. And I had written a paper in that time because she is a CBT therapist and they tend to go along with Spanos' socio-cognitive model and so I am a lying manipulative bitch who needs to have her behaviour shaped by being ignored and locked in seclusion. So I wrote about this, and about the psycho-dynamic model and the inherent danger with accepting that a severe history of abuse is a necessary requisite.... because I don't know and I am scaired and I so don't want this but it is the only thing that makes sense of the voices and the time and the things they say and the things I find that I have done.... and I hate it so much.

So I talk to my new T about this because I realise that if I can't talk about this stuff then it is not going to work as this is the stuff that concerns me the most. And she says that she has not met anybody like me before. And that there is an ambiguity as to how one could or should interpret what is happening with me. But we are going to try to have a look at it together. So I am scaired, but so very grateful because nobody else has ever listened to me on this or cared. I am so very scaired.

I so don't want this to be the case. But I need an alternative way to make sense of my life.

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k

Posted by Dinah on February 6, 2004, at 11:07:59

In reply to The interpretation of my symptoms..., posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2004, at 6:22:54

Alexandra, again it sounds very promising with this therapist. She's willing to explore it with an open mind and that's very encouraging.

I'm sure you've considered the possibility of a dissociative disorder? Is there anyone near you who can administer a SCID-D? There's no one in my area who's even heard of it, so I don't imagine it would be easy.

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Dinah

Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2004, at 18:26:33

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on February 6, 2004, at 11:07:59

> I'm sure you've considered the possibility of a dissociative disorder?

Yeah, thats what I am worried about. In NZ the majority consensus is that they are a load of therapist induced BS. So noone would risk their reputation in diagnosing one. (I suppose that one advantage of this attitude is that there is probably no way they could treat it adequately on public funding etc etc).

So that is fine, I don't care about the diagnosis I gave up caring what label they gave me or choose to give me a long time ago. But then I do want adequate treatment. At least it looks like I can talk about stuff if I want to and my T won't try and punish it out of me. But I am scaired because I so very much don't want that to be what is wrong with me. I hope that maybe we can figure out an alternative explanation (though I guess all this is fairly dependent on just how much she is willing to diverge from traditional CBT). Only one way to find out I guess.


 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k

Posted by Dinah on February 6, 2004, at 19:23:47

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2004, at 18:26:33

It's considered a load of BS around here by a lot of practitioners as well. While others seem pretty open to the idea.

You're right. It doesn't matter what they call it as long as they treat it. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to understand yourself as well as you possibly can, with or without them.

Why does the idea of that being what's wrong bother you so much? Mind you, I do understand to some extent as I dissociate a fair amount, though I have no lost time or amnesia.

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k

Posted by Elle2021 on February 7, 2004, at 23:25:59

In reply to The interpretation of my symptoms..., posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2004, at 6:22:54

You said that your former T's have diagnosed you BPD. Well I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and Borderline Traits (among other things). BUT, I read an article that said BPD and PTSD may be very closely interrelated. As in one might be a really bad version of the other. For instance, BPD might be a severe form of PTSD or vis-versa. I will try and find the article for you. Also, my therapist told me that it is not uncommon for people who have PTSD to hear voices. I hear people calling my name and sometimes I see shadows. She said those were all symptoms of PTSD, not something necessarily psychotic. Are the voices you hear like what I experience? Or are your voices telling you to do things, etc? What do you think about that?
Elle

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021

Posted by antigua on February 8, 2004, at 9:39:27

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k, posted by Elle2021 on February 7, 2004, at 23:25:59

Wow, I didn't know PTSD people hear voices. I thought I was the only one! I see shadows too, but I kind of expected that, with people lurking in doorways and all that.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to look into this.
antigua

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k

Posted by rs on February 8, 2004, at 12:29:41

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2004, at 18:26:33

First hope that am replying to the correct person. Still not used to this.
Would like to share with you since new here. I have DID. Just want to say understand about how T are hard to find that work with this. Also the part of believing. Old T from a few years ago worked with me but learned along the way. He did believe but took a long time to figure it out. Would talk about the voices and things that went on and some of them thought was crazy so of course lived in silence. Once he moved stopped therapy till got out of control. The present one working with is great. He has worked with one other person a male. He lets all others talk with him does not get scared and will not leave. Please keep on expressing to your T how you feel and see what happens. My T told me he uses PTSD for insurance purpose but also that all other parts in some way suffer from this. Please let me know what you think of this. Hang in there and the work is very hard when it comes to trauma but will be worth it.

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... antigua

Posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 1:35:56

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021, posted by antigua on February 8, 2004, at 9:39:27

> Wow, I didn't know PTSD people hear voices. I thought I was the only one! I see shadows too, but I kind of expected that, with people lurking in doorways and all that.

Thats my experience almost verbatim.

> Thanks for the info. I'm going to look into this.

Your welcome, I'm still searching for the article. I will post it as soon as I find it.
Elle

 

The article

Posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 1:55:22

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... antigua, posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 1:35:56

Okay,
This is not the article I was referring to (I can't find it at the moment), but this is a webpage that I think will be really helpful to you. It's pretty lengthy and full of useful information. I am giving the site address of the page I find most useful, but I encourage you to explore the entire site.
http://www.bpdresources.com/ptsd.html#ptsdbpd

Hope this helps.
Elle

 

This is the one

Posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 2:06:13

In reply to The article, posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 1:55:22

All right,
here it is:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/3661/58205

Thats the one I've been looking for... :)
Elle

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms...

Posted by alexandra_k on February 9, 2004, at 4:01:42

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on February 6, 2004, at 19:23:47

I guess I worry about it because I think what if I am kind of inducing it in myself?? I am not sure. If there is an alternative explanation I will gladly take it, but I can't for the life of me think of one. I am also worried about the trauma thing. haven't been sexually abused, but those sympathetic to the disorder often consider it to be a causative factor. I would prefer not to go there if at all possible...

 

oops, above for Dinah (nm)

Posted by alexandra_k on February 9, 2004, at 4:02:37

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms..., posted by alexandra_k on February 9, 2004, at 4:01:42

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021

Posted by alexandra_k on February 9, 2004, at 4:08:21

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k, posted by Elle2021 on February 7, 2004, at 23:25:59

I had heard that some theorists consider complex PTSD to be a sort of BPD, and I have heard that some theorists consdier DID to be a varient of BPD. So there is a link with all of the above. The voices that I hear engage in fairly complex conversations with each other, and, at times with me. They also comment of what I have done for the times that I don't remember sometimes. They send me mental pictures. They claim responsibility for my actions during those times. I figure they must be parts of me (because they are associated with my body just as I am) but don't see how... They don't command me, but sometimes they threaten that they will do something (which means I find myself having done it) so they scare me sometimes.

 

The article...Elle

Posted by antigua on February 9, 2004, at 9:01:29

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021, posted by alexandra_k on February 9, 2004, at 4:08:21

Thank you so very much. You've opened up a whole new world to me.
antigua

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k

Posted by Dinah on February 9, 2004, at 10:01:24

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021, posted by alexandra_k on February 9, 2004, at 4:08:21

It's a darn shame you can't get the SCID-D administered where you are (and where I am). Didn't you mention you were planning to come to the states for school soon?

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k

Posted by terrics on February 9, 2004, at 14:55:52

In reply to The interpretation of my symptoms..., posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2004, at 6:22:54

Hi Alexandra, It sounds like DID except the hearing voices I think. I think that comes more when you are integrating..I might be totally wrong. What I do know is that most people with DID are also BPD. I hope your therapist can help you. [I am BPD and that is bad enough..My T is also BPD so she is not biased toward us.] I used to go to a site on AOL for DIDs.It was very comfy there and they accepted me although I am not DID. I learned alot from them about DID. terrics

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms...

Posted by rs on February 9, 2004, at 18:32:05

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021, posted by alexandra_k on February 9, 2004, at 4:08:21

Hi. I have DID and yes do hear voices and they all have their own conversations and will communicate with me when not in denial. Each part has done something good for me as my T says and must look at all in that way. Yes it is very confusing and also makes me feel crazy. But let share that T says that I am an unique interesting person which do not like to hear. Want to be like the next person. How wish for you that you could find a T to work with. Hang in there and you are not crazy. I have never been told about BPD but do have PTSD. Which does make sense. Again wish you the best.

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021

Posted by terrics on February 9, 2004, at 20:21:30

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k, posted by Elle2021 on February 7, 2004, at 23:25:59

Hi Elle, It would be great if you could get that article and post it. Do you actually see shadows? I see movement out of the corners of my eyes and occasionally hear someone calling me.

I have a few diagnoses one of which is bpd. terrics

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... terrics

Posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 23:25:58

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021, posted by terrics on February 9, 2004, at 20:21:30

> Hi Elle, It would be great if you could get that article and post it. Do you actually see shadows? I see movement out of the corners of my eyes and occasionally hear someone calling me.

I posted two articles, but I'm still searching for one more that was much more to the point on the subject, I haven't been able to find it yet.

Out of the corner of my eyes I see movement like you describe, alot of the time it looks like a shadow passing. Also, occasionally I see flashes of light, very quick bursts of light. I do hear voices calling my name sometimes frequently sometimes infrequently. The voice is sometimes loud and authoritative, other times it is just a whisper. Either way, I always look up and see if someones really talking to me or not. Since some of the voices I hear are when I am in a crowded place, I hypothesize that SOME of the voices calling my name could be due to my social phobia and GAD. But, when I'm alone in the room and hear it, I have to attribute it to PTSD. I also notice that the majority of the times I hear my name being called is while I am either falling asleep or waking up. My T says this is normal for people in general (not just people with disorders). I also notice that when I haven't gotten enough sleep, all the symptoms are 20x's worse. I'm always hyper-vigilant, I feel like I'm ready to "fight or flight" at any given moment. Do you feel any of these things?
Elle

 

Re: The article...Elle antigua

Posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 23:26:33

In reply to The article...Elle, posted by antigua on February 9, 2004, at 9:01:29

> Thank you so very much. You've opened up a whole new world to me.
> antigua

Your welcome, glad I was able to help!
:)
Elle

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021

Posted by Dinah on February 9, 2004, at 23:43:48

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... terrics, posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 23:25:58

My therapist says not to pay too much attention to what you experience as you wake up or fall asleep. Sometimes when I'm really tired, I hear chatter like in a restaurant as I fall asleep. You can hear the tones and cadences and sometimes almost make out a word, but you really can't understand anything? Like that.

I think it's just some sort of discharge. My brain plays back all the noise it heard during the day so it can quiet down enough to go to sleep. Again, my therapist doesn't think it's at all significant.

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Dinah

Posted by Elle2021 on February 10, 2004, at 0:23:07

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021, posted by Dinah on February 9, 2004, at 23:43:48

> My therapist says not to pay too much attention to what you experience as you wake up or fall asleep.

Same thing mine says. But sometimes I hear the voice calling my name when I'm not falling asleep or waking up. I'll just be sitting, say, on the couch, and I'll hear my name being whispered or said. I'll look up and no one is there. My therapist has confimed that I am not schizophrenic. She believes all of this shadow and name hearing business has to do with the PTSD.
>
You can hear the tones and cadences and sometimes almost make out a word, but you really can't understand anything? Like that.

Sometimes it's like that, but usually it's a pretty clear calling of my name.

> I think it's just some sort of discharge. My brain plays back all the noise it heard during the day so it can quiet down enough to go to sleep.

Thats a good theory, makes sense to me.
Elle

 

Question... Dinah

Posted by Elle2021 on February 10, 2004, at 0:26:45

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on February 9, 2004, at 10:01:24

What is the SCID-D?
Elle

 

Voices

Posted by antigua on February 10, 2004, at 8:51:45

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on February 10, 2004, at 0:23:07

Maybe mine is a little different. I assume the voice is talking to me, and I hear things very clearly like "I'm going to kill you if you tell anyone." Scary, huh? I heard that one in broad daylight sitting on the deck at the beach. I still don't recognize the voice, and while I think it's my father, it doesn't sound like him at all. My T can't figure it out either. It's just another piece, I guess.
Thanks for the info,
antigua

 

Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... Elle2021

Posted by terrics on February 10, 2004, at 16:27:40

In reply to Re: The interpretation of my symptoms... terrics, posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 23:25:58

I usually do not hear my name when falling asleep or on awakening. I do hear it in crowds. But what you said about symptoms being so much MORE when you are tired I really understand. Do you ever find the lighting seems way off and makes you lose your bearings? Can I ask if you have any other diagnoses? terrics


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