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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on February 5, 2004, at 19:47:31
In reply to The last few days (long), posted by DaisyM on February 5, 2004, at 19:36:15
From what I've heard of him, yes, he is strong enough. You don't have to worry about him. Let him take care of himself. I'm sure he's smart enough to get the sustenance he needs to replenish his energy.
I too have had that shame that comes from websites. My therapist thinks my research is amusing, except for that. I'll come to him and tell him I want to retract everything I've ever told him because I read a therapist who said this or that and it made me feel ashamed. He doesn't get mad at me or anything, but he does wish I wouldn't read negative things.
That being said, I must confess to feeling compelled to. Feeling compelled to research both sides of the story and subject myself to close scrutiny. But seeing as how I wish you wouldn't put yourself through that, perhaps I ought to be as compassionate towards myself.
I'm sorry everything has come crashing down at once, Daisy. I forget, to you have any medication to help with the anxiety? I find my Klonopin helps me calm down enough to get some sleep, and if it fails the occasional Risperdal does. When your sleep is disturned everything seems so much more impossible to handle.
(((Daisy)))
Don't forget to take as good care of yourself as you do for others.
Posted by Speaker on February 5, 2004, at 20:34:17
In reply to Re: The last few days (long) » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on February 5, 2004, at 19:47:31
Daisy,
I'm so sorry things are harder now...I'm so glad you have a compasionate T. I agree with Dinah that he sounds like he has signed up for the duration with you...however long or short that is. If you can write it is very helpful and does speed things along in the healing process. I wish I did baking when I couldn't talk. I just seem to buy cookies and eat them all and anything else sweet when I can't find words. We would make a great pair...you could bake and I could eat :). Please do take good care of you and call the T if it will help you at all!!!
Posted by Raindancer on February 5, 2004, at 20:36:25
In reply to The last few days (long), posted by DaisyM on February 5, 2004, at 19:36:15
Daisy, I came looking for you tonight as you haven't posted for a couple of days. So relieved to hear from you but so sorry you have had so much to cope with. Please don't worry about your T. From what you've said about him over a long period of time he seems to be thoroughly reliable. He also seems to care for you very much. Try to trust him - I really believe you are in safe hands. It gets scary when you reveal so much but it is good too to release some of these awful things in a safe place and creates such a bond between you.
I haven't done writing assignments as such but sometimes when I am really angry (too much to be coherent) I write it down and read it out to my T. I know you like writing and you do it so well, I think it could be helpful. I think of you often (I am in UK by the way) and hope you will be given strength and peace - you will get through this. Take heart. R
Posted by DaisyM on February 5, 2004, at 20:52:58
In reply to Re: The last few days (long) » DaisyM, posted by Raindancer on February 5, 2004, at 20:36:25
I'm running out, have a committee meeting tonight but wanted to quickly ask you: WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF RIGHT NOW?? I told you I'd keep asking...
Thanks for the thoughts. I'll reply better later. Probably really later, but at least I'll have something to do besides bake!
Posted by fallsfall on February 5, 2004, at 21:46:38
In reply to The last few days (long), posted by DaisyM on February 5, 2004, at 19:36:15
(((((Daisy)))))
What a hard time for you. You are doing such hard work right now. I hope that you know that. This IS the hard stuff.
Your therapist is wonderful. He is plenty strong, don't worry about him. He can handle it, and help you handle it. I'm so glad he wants to see you more often. It really is OK to lean on him (and, why didn't you call him??). You can also lean on others, here and in real life. You would be amazed at what you don't "have" to do. If you had pnemonia would you expect yourself to be there for everybody else?
Do something nice for yourself. Eat cream of wheat (wow, I really typed that...). Color with crayons - they smell wonderful. Know that we care.
I'm so glad that you could post about this. Thanks for letting us lend you some support, thanks for trusting us enough to tell us.
I hope you can sleep. That will help.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 5, 2004, at 22:01:41
In reply to The last few days (long), posted by DaisyM on February 5, 2004, at 19:36:15
((((((((((((DAISY)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Extra big hug!!!!!!! I'm not really in a good place right now, well I'm in an excellent place right now, but I don't want to say the wrong thing so if I say ANYTHING at all wrong please know that I'm just not myself. And if, by the grace of God, I say just the pefect things, let's hope I stay this way forever :)
As for the flashback: I'm so sorry that happened. It's the most scary, horrible, frightening, dreadful thing to ever endure or experience. Well, almost the worst thing. And I wish that I could have been there to hold your hand, and take away your pain and confusion. They are scary and at this point I've only had one. One that I can't relate to a memory. And at this point, I most definetely do not EVER want to either... But, I know that memory has to exist somewhere...
Try not to look at all the negative stuff on the net about false memory, abandonment, ect... I did that as well, and that was the final straw to convince myself that these memories and the flash back wasn't true. It was just a figment of my imagination. Trust yourself and trust me that everything is going to turn out just fine. I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true.
Maybe the flashback can be a way of your mind telling yourself that it's really time for you to start healing. I think that it was my mind's way of saying, "Look kid, you've been fooling youself long enough. You want proof, you've got it."
It takes time. I wish I could wave a magic wand over your head (and mine second, I would heal you first my dear, that I promise) and make everything better. But I can't. But you have all the tools you need right there. You have such a wonderful therapist who is willing to help you. And you are so very great. And you bake yummy cookies. I just know everything is going to turn out great for you (and me too), I just can't tell you when. I think that part is left up to us. I'm hoping that I can heal a bit faster.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 6, 2004, at 0:07:48
In reply to The last few days (long), posted by DaisyM on February 5, 2004, at 19:36:15
I haven't really done many writing assignments in therapy. I journal often, but by my own choice. I'm supposed to do a lot of visual imagery and that sort of thing, but only because I don't recall many things about my past.
You seem to really be concerned about the toll this will take on your therapist. Is it because you are concerned about being needy (or am I projecting my own concerns about therapy onto you? Or am I just reading too much?) You Don't have to worry that this will be too much for him to handle!!!! He wants you to put some of this this on his shoulders.... That's why he's there... Trust him to be able to handle it.
Oh, and on my last post when I said I hope I get better faster, I didn't mean faster than you... I just meant faster than the speed I'm moving currently... Sorry about the confusion, if there is any :)
Posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 0:27:12
In reply to One more thing hun.. » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on February 6, 2004, at 0:07:48
No confusion. I'm happy if we both just feel better soon.
As far as being concerned, yeah, I really am. I've read so much about compassion fatigue, especially for people who work with trauma. And yes, I still worry about being "too" needy. I can't get a handle on how much is "too much". Sometimes I am truly convinced that it is OK to tell him all this stuff and other times he looks so truly horrified that I want to apologize for putting it out there "on him." He always reassures me (I ask directly, "are you Ok hearing that?") that he is fine, he is worried about me and he wants me to tell him anything I want to. But still, the look on his face...
Thanks for the support. I'm sorry you've dealt with all this too. It is pretty awful, isn't it?
Posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 0:52:49
In reply to Re: The last few days (long) » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on February 5, 2004, at 19:47:31
Dinah,
Nope, no meds. Lots of tea and coffee.
I'm glad I'm not the only one surfing web sites. It is getting hard to tell the good from the bad. And they make me feel weak sometimes. I can't ever see myself getting up there, on the web or otherwise, and say, "look at me - I've OVERCOME (fill in the blank)!" The hurt is so deep and personal...I don't know. Maybe you become evangelic later as part of the process.
As far as taking care of himself, I should believe he can. He has been doing this long enough. It's my nature to take care of everyone around me. I don't want to be a burden (except maybe to you guys here!). Silly, isn't it? I'm now paying to try to take care of someone else! He doesn't let me though...*sigh*
Posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 1:01:48
In reply to Re: The last few days (long), posted by Speaker on February 5, 2004, at 20:34:17
It would have been nice to have had someone to hang with in the Kitchen all that time!
Do you write things out? I actually have some fear around putting all this on paper. It makes it so real and permanent. Plus he wants me to write, like pen and paper write, not type. He tells me it uses a different part of the brain and is better at access deep emotion. I don't know about that. I get going pretty well typing. Then I think about reading out loud...it seems really hard now that I'm thinking more about it.
Maybe I'm just really tired.
Posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 1:07:33
In reply to Re: The last few days (long) » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on February 5, 2004, at 21:46:38
Can you believe it?! I have a crisis and my comfort food is missing. Trust me, cookies are no substitute!
Thanks for letting me lean on you guys. I feel like I'm doing that too much these days. Things are just so hard but I know I'm not the only one struggling.
And yes, I have thought about what would happen if I ever ended up in the hospital. I would have to get stuff done, people HAVE to get paid, etc. Sounds crazy, right? That is half the stress...
Posted by Crooked Heart on February 6, 2004, at 6:20:17
In reply to The last few days (long), posted by DaisyM on February 5, 2004, at 19:36:15
Daisy, I'm sorry you're having such a rough time and all this sh*t is happening at once.
Your therapist sounds as though he is up to it. So he looks horrified at what you tell him -- well maybe you've always *needed* someone to be horrified at what's happened to you, and he's doing just that, bless him. He sounds as though he would be wise enough to get support for himself *if* he needed it.
Who was it on this board advised 'self-care, self-care, self-care...'? Please be kind to yourself and use whatever are your favourite methods of getting a good night's sleep. I know this is just repeating what's been said, but if you did get pneumonia or something, then people would just manage. You don't have to do everything.
Thinking of you ((((Daisy))))
Posted by fallsfall on February 6, 2004, at 8:35:39
In reply to I'm out of Cream of Wheat » fallsfall, posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 1:07:33
Daisy,
You have one really important task today. You need to ask someone to get you some Cream of Wheat. Can you ask a friend at work to get some on her lunch hour? Can your husband pick some up? Can one of your kids walk to the corner store? Can you ask a neighbor to leave some on your doorstep? Can your Mom get some for you?
I would mail some to you, but I don't know where you live.
I guess that, if worse came to worse, you could get some yourself at a store (but it would feel so much better if someone else got it for you).
Even if you decide that you don't want to eat any today, you need to have it in your house (and maybe in your office, too).
Now, the other issue: "And yes, I have thought about what would happen if I ever ended up in the hospital. I would have to get stuff done, people HAVE to get paid, etc. Sounds crazy, right? That is half the stress...".
I have been where you are. I managed a group of 42 engineers (plus 20 coop students). I had to be there, I had to get stuff done, things would fall apart if I wasn't there. This was VERY bad.
It is not good management to be indispensible. Just like you put contingency plans in place when you are working on an important project - "just in case something goes wrong", you need contingency plans for every task that you do. Are you the top boss? Do you have managers working for you? Do you have competent individual contributors? What happens when you go on vacation? Depending on how your organization is set up, you could ask either your boss or subordinate managers to cover your tasks - either ask one to "be" you, or spread the work out among them (this kind of decision is made by person 1, person 2 can sign this kind of documents, etc.). It is BAD business to have things set up so that they will collapse if you are not there. What if the Twinkie Truck hit you? You need to put processes into place so that your work can be covered if you are not there. Of course, you WILL be there all of the time that you can (and probably some of the time that you can't). But, for your company's sake, you need to have a backup plan.
Posted by Speaker on February 6, 2004, at 9:29:32
In reply to Re: The last few days » Speaker, posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 1:01:48
Daisy,
I have done writing about several events. I wrote about an accident that a little boy ran in front of my car and was killed. However, it took many years of distance before I was able to write it and it did bring out the deepest emotion (stuff I thought I had worked through). I have learned suffering is two fold 1)you go through it and 2)you look back over it and not until both process are done do we have a clear picture of it. Writing makes it very real...I find it very hard. There are things in my life I can't begin to think of having on paper. I hope this process is helpful and freeing for you. You are in my thoughts. P.S. I wish I had your cookies...I had to go through the kitchen and only found white chocolate bits...I ate half the bag :).
Posted by antigua on February 6, 2004, at 10:02:16
In reply to The last few days (long), posted by DaisyM on February 5, 2004, at 19:36:15
I wasn't online last night because I WAS MAKING COOKIES!! I needed to distract myself. But no one but me seems to be eating them!
Your post went straight to my heart, Daisy. I don’t have flashbacks like that, or they don’t hit me as hard. It’s more like they seep into my consciousness, as if they’ve always been there and I just become aware of them. I have moments of great fear of what I’m about to remember, but I haven’t remembered what goes with that fear yet. I have some very strong memories that refuse to surface, no matter how hard I try, even though I know what they are. I’m still very disconnected from it all. I do have several actual memories, but I’m just not connected enough to them for me to feel terrified. EMDR has helped me to begin to connect to those feelings, though. As painful as the flashback is, at least you felt it, and that’s really progress, Daisy. It sounds like you were able to hold on and integrate the experience, which is really great (although I bet it sure doesn’t feel like it!).
For years I focused on false memories and “if I can’t remember it exactly, it didn’t happen, etc.” I would read and research incessantly to deny that my father, who I truly loved, had hurt me so badly. I finally had to give up the denial and accept it. Once I did that (and I still harbor some resistance) things started to loosen up a bit.
I also understand your feelings about the look on your T’s face when you tell him these things. Sometimes the look on mine is so tragic and heartbreaking, almost horror actually, that I feel so bad. I think it’s part of the burden thing I was talking about in my other post. I feel like I’m burdening her, imprinting these horrible events into her mind. My T says these things aren’t too horrible for her, they just make her feel bad for me, but to me, they make me feel ashamed because they are normal to me. Isn’t that sick? These experiences are normal to me. I can’t see that they are horrible to me, but I see it in her face. I don’t think I’m ready to accept how horrible it was and what it has done to me because then I would really have to deal w/what it has done to my life.
Good luck with the writing exercises and let me know how it goes, if it helps. I refuse to do that for therapy, but my T accepts it. I am a writer/editor in my “functioning” life and I can’t write about this in that way. It’s too painful. I have written about it on several occasions to specific people, but I don’t journal (except for here). It’s too tied up w/my sense or vision of myself as a writer. I can’t explain this correctly. Writing only helps me at certain times; otherwise, my writing becomes diluted and loses its intensity. Maybe I just mean that I can’t write about it very easily and to me it really matters what ends up on the page, and to discuss this issue it would have to be perfectly explained. (I give up, I’ll have to really think about why I refuse to write about it, except for here.)
I’m sorry it’s so tough right now, but hang in there. Lean on your T; that’s what he’s there for. He won’t leave you, and there’s nothing so horrible that you can tell him to make him turn away from you. We are also here to listen to you and to help.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on February 6, 2004, at 10:40:43
In reply to Re: The last few days » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 0:52:49
Daisy, have you talked to your therapist about the short term use of medications? I know some therapists think that they impede the progress of therapy by easing the pain. But I personally found that I couldn't do meaningful therapy when I was too affectively aroused. While I never take meds before going to therapy, I don't think I could manage to concentrate on the hard work, never mind the rest of my life, if my emotions were constantly in turmoil and I wasn't sleeping well. Honestly I get too irrational at those times to be effective at *anything*. Just something to think about.
Posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 14:39:04
In reply to Re: I'm out of Cream of Wheat - Crisis » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on February 6, 2004, at 8:35:39
There are several things in your post that made me smile -- ummm, my kids "drive" except for the 12year old, so walking? Oh, no! And, this is rural California -- we don't have "corner stores" -- or good public transportation for that matter. We DRIVE everywhere. Slowly. In traffic. But it is on my list today to pick up. I don't mind being self-sufficient in this area.
You are totally right about work. We do need a better distribution and back up plan. I am the "top" boss (she shrugs) and do all of the "business" work of the Agency. My assistant though is very, very good. She could run this place. She just doesn't "know" everything, like how to rob Peter to pay Paul, etc. Or how to beg for people to Please, please pay you...*sigh* It is a control thing, you know? But I know I need to write it all down. In my spare time.
Just last year I restructured so that all of the programs have "program managers." I wanted staff in each department to feel supported so we also instituted "reflective supervision." Meaning, each person gets one-on-one time with a supervisor to problem solve, vent, brainstorm, whatever needs to be done. People love it because they feel heard.
I told my Therapist about this structure one day when I was ranting about a particular senior manager who doesn't do her job but always gets me twisted up to feel like I should be doing her job. Anyway, he said, "so you've set up this really progessive system where everyone has support, professionally and emotionally...but you? Hmmm..." I just never thought I needed it before. Man, was I wrong!!
So I hear you. I'll probably need to hear it again and again. I just feel so responsible all the time.
Posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 14:53:38
In reply to Re: The last few days (long) » DaisyM, posted by Crooked Heart on February 6, 2004, at 6:20:17
I'm not good at the "self" part in self-care. I always feel like I need to "do" something for someone else...
So, I'm gonna quote you, OK? (Clears her throat, looks intently at the group of employees) "Ahem: My friend, Crooked Heart, says I don't have to do it ALL. So someone step up...anyone? anyone?"
I'm still waiting...
funny, but sad.
Posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 15:13:31
In reply to Re: The last few days (very long) Daisy, posted by antigua on February 6, 2004, at 10:02:16
Thank you for your long post. It helps a lot. I worry sometimes that I'm making too big a deal out of all this but then I get whammied by the pain and think, OK, it IS a big deal. But I get what you mean about it seeming normal...I hear myself say, "but parents did things different back then."
And, it seems both you and Karen have read about the false memory theories. It really hits a nerve. I think one of the biggest fears is not being believed. Well, that and causing even MORE bad things to happen by telling...it is so complicated.
I'm glad you are making the progess you want using EMDR. It sounds really scary to me. The flashback was definately different than the "movie-type" memories I've had all along. And it was loaded with the real feelings of fear. Among other things. Yuck. It was hard to tell about the flashback because that was like telling about the real event -- does that make sense? Double the pain, in a sense. I've read a lot about Hypnosis therapy, which is suppose to recreate the feelings too. I can't see myself giving up that kind of control.
I will let you know how the writing goes. I've never written about this stuff before last night. And I was a writer by trade also right out of college. I know what you are trying to say about your writing. At least for me, my writing can turn into an extension of myself. Copywriting is different, someone pays me to say what they want. But my stuff...it is personal. I'm a little worried that writing is actual a form of dissociating for me, which I never actually thought of before. So writing about this stuff may trigger...we'll see.
And I'm glad you understand what I was trying to say about the look on my Therapist's face. I KNOW that he has heard worse. And I know he will take care of himself (OK, I'm trying to know that one). But I don't want my stuff to cause pain for him, or stress, or whatever. It is hard to put into words what I mean. I don't want what happen to me to define me in his eyes. Something like that.
So, I'm not unique in the cookie baking department. Too bad we can't figure a way to share them with Babblers. Sounds like Speaker could use a few. :)
Keep posting, OK? You don't know how much it helps.
-D
Posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 16:00:37
In reply to Re: The last few days » DaisyM, posted by Speaker on February 6, 2004, at 9:29:32
but when you look back over it, does it have to feel like you are going through it again? Sometimes I wonder if this isn't just self-inflicted pain at this point...
Posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 16:14:03
In reply to Re: The last few days » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on February 6, 2004, at 10:40:43
Dinah,
I've never talked to him about meds. I know alot about them, having researched them before we put my child on them.I'm not against them at all. But I guess it isn't consistantly "so bad" that he thinks I need them. If the anxiety continues, or gets worse, I'll bring it up. Not sleeping stinks.
Just recently I had a check up with my gynocologist. She delivered all my kids so I've know her a long time plus we work together on/off as our fields cross a lot. So we are friends of sorts. She told me at my check up that she was "worried" about me - too much stress, looked terrible, etc. She thought I was "depressed" and offered me a prescription if I wanted it. I thanked her and declined. I told my Therapist, who was outraged that she could have offered a prescription without more information and without suggesting therapy in addition, etc. It was cute that he was so protective. :)
Posted by pegasus on February 6, 2004, at 16:56:18
In reply to The last few days (long), posted by DaisyM on February 5, 2004, at 19:36:15
Daisy, I can't think of anything very helpful to say, but I want you to know that I'm so sorry for all of your pain over the last few days. And I think it sounds like your T is among the best I've heard about. I'm sure he'll be able to take whatever you need to give. I understand about the horrified fact thing. It's so hard to even think that your anchor may not be able to hold your stuff. But really, really, from everything you've said here about your T, I'm sure he's going to be up to the task of hearing your story, and that he can take care of himself.
- p
Posted by Dinah on February 6, 2004, at 19:38:16
In reply to Medications » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on February 6, 2004, at 16:14:03
My therapist is a big believer in medications. Just today I called him with some incoherent message that included the disclosure that I was going to take a Klonopin and go to sleep for a while. He told me he didn't call me back till later because it sounded like a Klonopin and some sleep would do me some good. :)
Posted by gardenergirl on February 6, 2004, at 21:05:48
In reply to Re: The last few days (long), posted by pegasus on February 6, 2004, at 16:56:18
Daisy,
I believe someone may have already said this but here goes...I think the look on your T's face is a natural reaction. It shows that your T is feeling for you; has empathy. It does NOT mean that there is anything wrong with you, and you did NOT inflict this look on him. I think someone already said this, too, but perhaps if you are not used to someone feeling your pain with you about this (i.e. no one did at the time) then it is offputting. But I'm glad your T appeared to feel your pain. He will be able to cope with it. I'm confident that he is skilled and professional enough to get what he needs from others if necessary. But you did NOT CAUSE this.I, too am feeling for you. I can't begin to imagine what it must be like for you. I can only reflect back to you based on my own life experiences and feelings. You are so strong for moving forward. I'm so sorry that you are faced with such a painful experience. I pray that you are able to take care of yourself as well as you do others, and that you let others take care of you. That, too is a sign of wisdom and strength.
Thinking of you,
gg
Posted by DaisyM on February 7, 2004, at 0:33:52
In reply to Re: The last few days (long), posted by pegasus on February 6, 2004, at 16:56:18
Thanks. I need to keep hearing that. I can use all the support I can get. There is so much to read about "bad" therapy and burnt-out Therapist. How can we not worry?
That said, I think he is pretty great too. Lucky me! (Pushy sometimes, but...)
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