Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 296583

Shown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

A Pro-Therapy Article

Posted by tabitha on January 5, 2004, at 1:42:59

It's actually a book review. Has some nice validating things to say about long-term therapy.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2004/01/05/firestone/index.html

 

nice article -- thanks for sharing! (nm) » tabitha

Posted by crushedout on January 5, 2004, at 5:35:04

In reply to A Pro-Therapy Article, posted by tabitha on January 5, 2004, at 1:42:59

 

Against Firestone's long-term therapy

Posted by badhaircut on January 5, 2004, at 20:44:28

In reply to A Pro-Therapy Article, posted by tabitha on January 5, 2004, at 1:42:59

Tabitha -- Great link! Firestone's defense of long-term psychotherapy is probably as good as any out there. Can I share what struck me as some of its weaknesses?

<> In the interview, retired California psychologist Robert Firestone (RF) says, "[M]edication and other shortcuts ... generally represent only symptomatic cures."

Maybe talk therapy represents only symptomatic relief. The patient gets to feel warm & respected & listened to for 50 minutes a week plus phone calls. That's great; those are good feelings. But that's only isolated relief of certain emotional distresses (hopelessness, etc). Again, that's important, but I'm afraid it can often be THE benefit from years of therapy. Talk is then simply a brief anodyne hit, not an effective education. Slinging "symptom-relief" like a slur is always the first charge depth-therapists make against others. Clearly, it can easily be slung back.

<> RF says, "In an age when everything is becoming more mechanized, uncaring and materialistic, psychotherapy is an outpost for maintaining our humanness."

My gosh, the arrogance of such a pronouncement! No matter what mechanized world you live in, YOU'RE STILL HUMAN! A touchless, antiseptic, containerized, clock-timed chat does not *maintain* (!) humanness. And *getting* (that's the word!) analyzed can seem pretty materialistic itself, can't it? One puts a lot of resources into *getting* that deeper awareness, *having* *growth*, *accessing* private realms available *nowhere else*. RF says that in therapy, "You're ... UTILIZING OTHERS and everything in your experience to improve yourself and fulfill your potential...." Keeping ahead of the shallow, unfulfilled Joneses. By using them.

Cheap shots? I wonder. I'd like to see long-term psychotherapy explored more from this angle. (And I didn't even mention the fee.)

<> RF says, "[M]ost of my clients had reasonably successful careers."

He just admitted that most of his clinical experience is with high-functioning patients. No wonder he remains so hopeful about his methods. But that's typical of long-term therapy. People who're in general less skillful can't manage the time & money.

<> RF says other therapies "fail to address the deeper emotions and conflicts that produced [the emotional symptoms]."

Can't one as easily say that the "symptoms" are triggering the experience of deeper conflicts? Why not? It doesn't fit RF's theory.

<> RF says, "Individuals who are less damaged tend to be more open and therefore [sic] have a better chance to improve their lives...."

RF's repeated use of the word "damage" to refer to childhood experience (and "damaged" to refer to people) offends me as anti-humane. It implies that there is a perfect form of the person, like a prized vase on 'Antiques Roadshow.' Anything else is less valuable, less desirable to have -- or be. (The materialistic aspect of long-term therapy is really becoming apparent to me.)

<> My final point, on the first quote. "[M]edication and other shortcuts ... generally represent only symptomatic cures."

Not just shortcuts, but *cures*! Was that a Freudian slip by RF? What kind of defenses are people engaging in when they AVOID A SHORTCUT CURE in order to talk for months & years about things that happened so remotely (if at all)? Wouldn't it be more humane to relieve the so-called symptoms NOW? How about taking care of all the symptoms right away and THEN, once the patient is feeling good, getting into that deeper damage? Isn't that what physicians do?

I think the reason long-term talk-therapy practitioners don't do it that way is obvious. Like Freud said, they'd have no motivation to stick with the treatment!

- - - - - -
To anyone who's read this far, I'm grateful. And Tabitha, thanks again for the link. Once again, I'm not hostile to therapy patients or even many therapists, just some unhelpful dogmas of therapy.
"Creating a Life of Meaning and Compassion" by Robert W. Firestone & others
-bhc

 

Re: Against Firestone's long-term therapy

Posted by tabitha on January 5, 2004, at 22:00:22

In reply to Against Firestone's long-term therapy, posted by badhaircut on January 5, 2004, at 20:44:28

> To anyone who's read this far, I'm grateful. And Tabitha, thanks again for the link. Once again, I'm not hostile to therapy patients or even many therapists, just some unhelpful dogmas of therapy.
> "Creating a Life of Meaning and Compassion" by Robert W. Firestone & others
> -bhc

You're welcome. I took no offense at your critique. I'm a long-term therapy client but still pretty ambivalent about whether it's really been worth the time, money, and emotional upheaval.

Thanks for putting in the book link. Clicking it made me realize this guy is the also author of another book I was considering getting: "The Fantasy Bond: Structure of Psychological Defenses".

 

Re: A Pro-Therapy Article

Posted by Speaker on January 6, 2004, at 16:41:01

In reply to A Pro-Therapy Article, posted by tabitha on January 5, 2004, at 1:42:59

Tabitha,

It was a very good article and I appreciate you sharing it! However, I am like you in that I'm not sure the long term therapy has been the key either. I have invested much time, energy, and yes MONEY and I'm not sure if I would have spent that much time and money on myself in other indulgent areas I might have gotten through things even better :). But its nice to know others think long time therapy isn't just for hospitalized patients.

 

Re: A Pro-Therapy Article » Speaker

Posted by tabitha on January 6, 2004, at 19:03:53

In reply to Re: A Pro-Therapy Article, posted by Speaker on January 6, 2004, at 16:41:01

>But its nice to know others think long time therapy isn't just for hospitalized patients.

That's the part that I found validating-- a reminder that therapy can be for personal growth rather than just medical care for 'sickness'. Of course I want it both ways-- let the insurance company treat it as medical treatment, but when it comes to my self-image, I'd rather think of it as personal growth.


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