![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 62. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 1:13:59
Does anyone else notice that being around certain people makes you want to SI?
Elle
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2004, at 9:13:44
In reply to I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me, posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 1:13:59
I can't say that anyone makes me feel that way just from being near them. But there is someone who makes me feel that way a whole lot through his anger and critical ways of being. I get full of anger mixed with despair. I can imagine that if I got enough of those experiences with him, and no positive ones, that his very presence could bring on the urges.
Is that what happened with this person?
Posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 9:54:38
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2004, at 9:13:44
> Is that what happened with this person?
Well, I guess it wasn't just sitting next to the person. It was their entire attitude and the way they treated me and other people. Mix that with past experiences I have had with this person, and it's a recipe for SI. I think I did a good job fighting the urge, cause I didn't cut myself this time. I guess this person just exudes anxiety and unhappiness, and when I am around them, they have this way of making me feel useless, and hopeless reagarding my mental health. It's like first they can't recognize anything is wrong is wrong with me. And then five minutes later it's, "When is your next appointment with your doctor?" Then complete denial anything was ever wrong to begin with. It's just back and fourth. Sometimes other people's unhappy emotions and moods strongly effect mine. I can't feel decent if someone around me is having a breakdown and they are taking it out on me. Typically, I go ahead and have my own breakdown. Other times I completely dissociate from the things going on around me. If I don't recognize them, then for me they aren't there. If that makes any sense. And this person has a way of making comments directed about my use of medication to really hurt my feelings. Such as, "Well, I can see you haven't taken your medication today." Or, if I'm in a good mood, it's, "Well, I see you have doped yourself up again, what did you take this time?" I can't win. If I take my meds like I'm supposed to, then I'm a drug addict, if I don't take them I get the old, "Take something, we can't stand you." Ugh.
Elle
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2004, at 11:21:36
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI cause your near me » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 9:54:38
I tend to be an emotional sponge as well. Now that I have a working tape player, I'm going to try to listen to my tape on mental shielding again. I already do some visualization on blocking the unhealthy emotions from others, but it's hard work.
If you can possibly set up boundaries with this person, it might be healthier to do that. It's harder, but not impossible, to do it with family. I used to be very very close to my parents, but it just wasn't healthy for me. I have now cut down on contact with them significantly. I have also told my father that if he yells at me or threatens to kill anyone or anything like that, I'll just hang up or leave. And I do it. I do the same with my mother and her dramatics.
For me, the self injury urges comes from feelings of helplessness and hopelessness, mixed with anxiety or anger. Anything that empowers me reduces the self injury urges.
Unfortunately, there are still situations and people with whom I just can't seem to manage that. :(
Congratulations on not acting on the urges!
Posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 12:40:46
In reply to I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me, posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 1:13:59
It used to simply be my mother (HA! I said it!). That's where I learned it. Not from her, but as a child she was so domineering that I couldn't talk back so that was all that I had to let it out. But I moved away for college and she moved VERY far away. And I only see her a few times a year. So now when she upsets me, I simply walk away. But only because I see her maybe 5 times a year. And speak to her maybe 10 times a year on the telephone. I love her dearly, but that's all I can handle. If I spoke to her more, I'd hurt myself. So I speak infrequently and it stays pleasant and wonderful! Luckily she is rather cold and distant, so she doesn't seem to notice :)
Is that a possibility for your situation? To see this person at an acceptable level, rather as often as you can handle? Since I see my mother no longer than 4 days (after 4 I begin to get the urge!!!) I enjoy it...seeing her less often that is..
See people on the terms where it is enjoyable for you. If you don't enjoy his company, then why bother? Honestly, is it worth it? You shouldn't feel bad for not putting yourself through he** . If this person is a relative, find the "acceptable level" tha amount of time you can spend with this person before he really starts to get on your nerves. If it happens to be just 10 minutes, then meet for lunch somewhere. Explain that's all the time you have right now. Try to enjoy the meal. Order a beer if that helps :) Have a friend call half way through just in case it gets rough so you can have an excuse to get back to work, pick a friend up from the airport, ect...You don't have to leave if it is working out, but it's nice to have a back up if you need one... I'm just saying you can limit your time and don't feel guilty. Life is about YOU, not accomidating others, especially insisitve people who obviously don't understand what you are going through. Trust me.. I know. I hear it all the time. Good luck hun.. The excuses work too!!!
Posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 21:25:30
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI cause your near me » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2004, at 11:21:36
> I tend to be an emotional sponge as well. Now that I have a working tape player, I'm going to try to listen to my tape on mental shielding again. I already do some visualization on blocking the unhealthy emotions from others, but it's hard work.
If you can give me any tips on mental shielding from your tapes, it would be really helpful!
> If you can possibly set up boundaries with this person, it might be healthier to do that. It's harder, but not impossible, to do it with family.
I have tried to set boundaries with this person, but it's hard to stick with them. Especially since this person knows the right thing to say to me to make it hurt deep. Plus, I live with the person, so they are always around me. I am working on trying to get a job (so I can move out), but that is proving more difficult than I thought it would be. I have quit all my past jobs (about 5-6 this past year), only once did I give 2 weeks notice. So, when the interviewer calls the past employer, well, lets just say I don't get rave reviews.
> For me, the self injury urges comes from feelings of helplessness and hopelessness, mixed with anxiety or anger. Anything that empowers me reduces the self injury urges.
The urge for me to self injure come from the same feelings you described. The thing is, that when you say anything that empowers reduces the need to SI, well, for me, SI makes me feel like I have a say in what happens to my body. I'm almost inclined to compare SI with anorexia. The reasons people start doing it are similar.
> Unfortunately, there are still situations and people with whom I just can't seem to manage that. :(
me either.
> Congratulations on not acting on the urges!
Thanks.Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 21:30:17
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me » Elle2021, posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 12:40:46
> It used to simply be my mother (HA! I said it!). That's where I learned it. Not from her, but as a child she was so domineering that I couldn't talk back so that was all that I had to let it out.
Same for me. I remember starting forms of self-injuring at about 5-6 years old, so this is a long-suffering coping strategy for me.
>But I moved away for college and she moved VERY far away.
I had moved away, but then because of my financial situation, I had to move back.
> Is that a possibility for your situation? To see this person at an acceptable level, rather as often as you can handle?
Not really since I live with this person. Thank you for all the suggestions. I'm trying to get moved out of my present residence. My pdoc thinks I will do much better once I live on my own again.
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 21:31:06
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me, posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 21:30:17
Posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 23:51:32
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me, posted by Elle2021 on January 4, 2004, at 21:30:17
Not really since I live with this person.
*Ouch! Well, hmmm.. Are you able to take breaks when it gets rough. Excuse yourself, politely leave the room, throw a spider at the person :)..(with very large gloves on of course).. Or just nod your head politely and agree with everything the person says. I like that trick a lot...Typical conversation..
Person "So, you really are crazy."
Me "Sure enough. Thank you so much for pointing it out. I wouldn't have noticed it if you hadn't told me. Now, do you have any advice at all that I could consider, because I don't hear enough from my doctor, therapist, family and other friends. Why don't you enlighten me?" (And I try to have a polite smile on my face when I am being condescending.) Eventually even really slow people get the hint. Soemtimes it takes a while, but they pick up on it. It's even better when they get angry, because I totally deny being condescending at all. I say I'm being sincere and looking for honest feedback.
Posted by cubic_me on January 5, 2004, at 5:28:06
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me » Elle2021, posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 23:51:32
When I find someone really triggering for SI I'll try and find something really distracting to do. Seeing other friends is great for me - it really takes my mind off harming, if only for an hour or so. Do you have anything else you like to do, like sport/hobbies etc?
Posted by Elle2021 on January 5, 2004, at 6:05:09
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me » Elle2021, posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 23:51:32
Or just nod your head politely and agree with everything the person says. I like that trick a lot...Typical conversation..
> Person "So, you really are crazy."
> Me "Sure enough. Thank you so much for pointing it out. I wouldn't have noticed it if you hadn't told me. Now, do you have any advice at all that I could consider, because I don't hear enough from my doctor, therapist, family and other friends. Why don't you enlighten me?" (And I try to have a polite smile on my face when I am being condescending.) Eventually even really slow people get the hint. Soemtimes it takes a while, but they pick up on it. It's even better when they get angry, because I totally deny being condescending at all. I say I'm being sincere and looking for honest feedback.Karen,
You are just too funny! And you remind me so much of myself. :) I am definitely going to try the conversation technique. It's just that mum thinks I adore unsolicited advice. I know she's just trying to help, but really I'm a big girl now. She tries to control every aspect of my life as if I am not capable of handling it myself (and at a time I wasn't, but I am now. I tried telling her that, but it's no use). Here's an example of her controlling behaviour:
It snowed about a foot and a half here and I have my first day of winter quarter tomorrow. Now, I had planned to drive myself there (college is about 35 minutes from where I live), BUT lo and behold, mum thought it best if she DRIVE me to school. At first, I tried to avoid an argument by saying, "Oh thanks, but thats not really necessary." Then she replied that it wasn't an offer, but a command that she was going to drive me. We had an arugment over it, so now, I am taking the bus. I haven't ever ridden the bus before...kind of nervous about that situation. Anyway, this is only ONE of the many ways she tries to control my life. She even said she didn't want me to get a job. If I did get one, then I would be able to move out and she would have to find another way to control me. Ugh, Karen I'm an adult now, I don't need my mummy to hold my hand anymore, but she just won't let go. I don't know what to do. I love her and I don't like arguing with her.
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on January 5, 2004, at 6:06:35
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me, posted by cubic_me on January 5, 2004, at 5:28:06
> When I find someone really triggering for SI I'll try and find something really distracting to do. Seeing other friends is great for me
I don't have any friends. :(
Elle
Posted by cubic_me on January 5, 2004, at 6:09:55
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me » cubic_me, posted by Elle2021 on January 5, 2004, at 6:06:35
>
> I don't have any friends. :(
> Elle
>I'll be your friend..........
Posted by Elle2021 on January 5, 2004, at 6:35:45
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me » Elle2021, posted by cubic_me on January 5, 2004, at 6:09:55
> I'll be your friend..........
:) Thanks! I accept your friendship! :)
(((((cubic_me))))))
Elle
Posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 11:00:14
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me » cubic_me, posted by Elle2021 on January 5, 2004, at 6:06:35
What about the one who wears big shoes. Or is that a lie too? Seems you've been caught yet again :) And I suppose the spider story is a hoax too? Hmmmm... Guess I'll be thinking twice as to what I disclose to you, MY FRIEND. No more of the personal phobias, as I wouldn't want you to know too much about me :)
Posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 11:26:26
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me » Karen_kay, posted by Elle2021 on January 5, 2004, at 6:05:09
You are just too funny!
*I have to agree!! :)And you remind me so much of myself. :)
*Hey, I said that in a different post. You're cramping my style :)I am definitely going to try the conversation technique.
*OK, a few tips...
It works best if you do it without laughing, now this is important. If you laugh, the person will only think that you are joking and you don't want that.
Also, to make the person feel like a real piece of work, do it in front of an audience. It also works well with just the two of you, but an audience gathers the best results. It really makes the person think about giving unsolicited advice or opinions.
As for your mommy, that's a toughy. You love her and wouldn't want to be harsh. I have the opposite problem with my mommy. Hmmm. Let me fix another cup of coffee and think about it for a second. And, you should have taken her up on the offer. A ride from Mommy Dearest is better than the bus anyday :)Ok, do you have a cell phone? Maybe she could offer to split the bill on one and the would help ease her mind when you went off driving in horrible conditions, like 10 feet of snow like today :) Or if you tried to have a conversation with her telling her that you are an adult and that you need to be treated as such. Yes, you love her dearly, but you feel that she treats you like a child. Just try talking to her. It just may do the trick.
Posted by Elle2021 on January 6, 2004, at 6:40:07
In reply to Liar liar, pants on fire! » Elle2021, posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 11:00:14
> What about the one who wears big shoes.
Funny story about that one. We shared an apartment for a year and a half, and I came home one day and she had packed her things and was leaving...guess the BPD finally got to her! We have mended our differences, but she now lives far away from me.
>And I suppose the spider story is a hoax too?
I wish it were a hoax!!
Hmmmm... Guess I'll be thinking twice as to what I disclose to you, MY FRIEND. No more of the personal phobias, as I wouldn't want you to know too much about me :)
Okay, okay, okay. I was feeling sorry for myself earlier. I realize I have some friends! :)
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on January 6, 2004, at 6:50:47
In reply to Re: I'm in the mood to SI simple because your near me » Elle2021, posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 11:26:26
> *OK, a few tips...
Thanks! :) hehe
>And, you should have taken her up on the offer.
And normally I probably would have taken her up on the offer. It's just that she "ordered" me to let her drive me, as if I were some kind of invalid who can't make decisions.
A ride from Mommy Dearest is better than the bus anyday :)
Actually...I took the bus. It was no where near as bad as I thought it would be. Public transportation isn't half bad. :)
> Ok, do you have a cell phone?
Of course...
>Maybe she could offer to split the bill on one and the would help ease her mind when you went off driving in horrible conditions
Actually, she is nice enough to pay the entire bill, but it's really just another method of control. When I lived with my roommate, she would get upset if she found out I went out past 8 pm. Can you believe that?
>Or if you tried to have a conversation with her telling her that you are an adult and that you need to be treated as such.
I have had a number of such conversations, but I think they are better titled as screaming matches.
>Yes, you love her dearly,
Yes I do, she's my mum.
but you feel that she treats you like a child. Just try talking to her. It just may do the trick.
She has social phobias and anxiety. She's been that way for as long as I can remember. Some times it gets worse than others, especially when she thinks something bad is going to happen to me if I leave the house. She hardly ever leaves the house. A doctor gave her Paxil a while back. She was a little better on that, but she quit taking it some time ago. I'm trying to persuade her to go back to the doctor. Thanks for the help!
Elle
Posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 14:55:13
In reply to Re: Liar liar, pants on fire! » Karen_kay, posted by Elle2021 on January 6, 2004, at 6:40:07
Well, first of all, I had a wonderful, emotional and caring post (huh?) and my blasted computer froze up so I lost it! Murphy's Law anyone?
<guess the BPD finally got to her!
*OK, this is where my head turned around. I'm also dx BPD, as is my "short friend", as I'll call her. Now, if you start telling me that you are dx Bipolar I Disorder, PTSD, traits of OCPD, and have a nasty habit of getting naked in public then I refuse to post here anymore. That's just TOO much! Shorty SI's and has begun a nasty pill habit to cope. Her SI is at a point now that she cuts her face and neck even, she can't even conceal it anymore. And I'm the only one who can calm her down, but she lives so far away and I can't calm her over the phone. And she seems to hae her "fits of rage" at aobut 4 am, making it impossible for me to go see her. And she has tried therapy, but she doesn't take kindly to it, as she only ends up being committed. Usually she thrashes about her therapists office (if she lasts long enough through the appoinment) until he calls security to take her to the hospital. I just don't know what to do...But what's worse is her reason for everything she does is "I'm Borderline," and when she's with me I just look down and hope she doesn't say anything about me...I'm thinking "Oh please!!!! Shorty, don't say anything about me." I don't want to argue with her aobut it. She needs therapy. But her previous therapist didn't even set goals. From what she told me, he wasn't a very good therapist. But then again, she wasn't a very good client either. But, I'm not like her. I don't blame all of my actions of my dx. I hate it when my friends say "Oh remember when you (_____), because you were manic?" Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm also impulsive. That's just Karen! Yes, I've made poor choices while manic, but I've also made poor choices while I was neither manic nor depressed! I wish I could blame some of my actions on my "diseases or dx", but I'd rather take responsibility, you know!!! **Excuse my tangent there! We all have them sometimes!**Hmmmm... Guess I'll be thinking twice as to what I disclose to you, MY FRIEND. No more of the personal phobias, as I wouldn't want you to know too much about me :)
**I agree, I don't want to know too much about you either. You seem rather boring and uninteresting. And I can tell from your posts that you may very well have a foul body odor to boot. And yes, I can tell all of this just from your posts! In all seriousness, I have enjoyed your posts! And I am SOOOOOOOOO glad you are back! Don't ever go again, or I'll call your mom myself (and don't think I won't do it!!!) and make her make you get back on here! I think that we seem to have a similar sense of humor, and I like that. It's hard sometimes to tell if people "get" what I'm throwing out. Sometimes I feel bad because I'm afraid that maybe I'm not understood. It's nice that you understand my perspective. That, or you're just trying to fool me. I can't tell yet :)
I realize I have some friends! :)
*Well, I'm certainly not one of them. ICK! I wouldn't be seen with the likes of you, for crying out loud. :) If you ever feel the need, here's my email addy kkoliver at bsu dot edu Now, don't give this out to all of your friends. I realize that I'm a very nice person and would be a joy to talk to. But, I am rather busy and don't have the time to answer all of your friends' problems. :)
Posted by Elle2021 on January 7, 2004, at 3:54:23
In reply to Things are getting freaky! » Elle2021, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 14:55:13
> <guess the BPD finally got to her!
> *OK, this is where my head turned around. I'm also dx BPD, as is my "short friend", as I'll call her. Now, if you start telling me that you are dx Bipolar I Disorder, PTSD, traits of OCPD, and have a nasty habit of getting naked in public then I refuse to post here anymore.I have BPD, OCD, Bipolar 3, panic attacks, and anxiety. But, no habit of getting nekkid in public! :)
Shorty SI's and has begun a nasty pill habit to cope. Her SI is at a point now that she cuts her face and neck even, she can't even conceal it anymore.
That is so sad. I'm so sorry to hear about that. I haven't ever cut my neck, but I imagine that is just awful to have to live with everyday. Is Shorty on any medications that help sedate her so she can talk to her therapist?
Usually she thrashes about her therapists office (if she lasts long enough through the appoinment) until he calls security to take her to the hospital.
Is the doctor for sure that she is Borderline? Could it be something else? Something else where rage is the main problem? Of course, she has the SI symptom, so it's hard to say.
>I just don't know what to do...But what's worse is her reason for everything she does is "I'm Borderline,"
Oh dear... She has to accept responsibility for the way she is acting. I know it's really difficult, but it's unlikely she will get better until she accepts responsibility for her actions.
>But, I'm not like her. I don't blame all of my actions of my dx.
Me neither! I try to identify when I am having a bpd related emotion, then I try to reason it out. (i.e. why it probaby isn't appropriate for the situation, etc.).
>I hate it when my friends say "Oh remember when you (_____), because you were manic?"
Tell me about it! I don't like it when my family says stuff like, wow, you sure were having some nasty mood swings a few days ago, you were like (insert description here). I know how I acted because I was there too, no one has to reiterate for me.
>Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm also impulsive. That's just Karen! Yes, I've made poor choices while manic, but I've also made poor choices while I was neither manic nor depressed!
Yes, I sometimes think my family blames my attitude on "whats wrong with me." Some days I act that way cause I'm cranky. It's not always a mood swing, just sometimes I'm tired...know what I mean?
> **I agree, I don't want to know too much about you either. You seem rather boring and uninteresting. And I can tell from your posts that you may very well have a foul body odor to boot.
Yes, I can tell from your posts that you probably wear mismatched clothes and don't wash your hair. :)
>In all seriousness, I have enjoyed your posts!
Well I'm glad somebody does! :) I enjoy yours too.
>And I am SOOOOOOOOO glad you are back! Don't ever go again,
:( Everyone has to take breaks sometimes! But I like being here. Last time I think I just got overwhelmed. That happens sometimes, right??
>I think that we seem to have a similar sense of humor, and I like that.
I definitely think we have a similar sense of humour because I always get your jokes and find your witty sarcasm hilarious! :)!!
>It's hard sometimes to tell if people "get" what I'm throwing out.
I get it.
> I realize I have some friends! :)
>
> *Well, I'm certainly not one of them. ICK! I wouldn't be seen with the likes of you, for crying out loud. :)And I could never be your friend cause you don't wash your hair... Hehehe!
I wish my post had more substance right now... I will try to post a better one soon. When I read your post, I was thinking of so many things I was going to write back, and now I can't remember any of them. Ahh!!!
*smiles*
Elle
Posted by Karen_kay on January 7, 2004, at 11:14:40
In reply to Re: Things are getting freaky! » Karen_kay, posted by Elle2021 on January 7, 2004, at 3:54:23
Up late again I see... I may have to give your mommy a call to let her know about this mess.. Wouldn't want your grades to slip because you're on the internet, now would we? Actually I'm delighted and giddy to read your posts :)
Is Shorty on any medications that help sedate her so she can talk to her therapist?
*She takes Paxil, Seroquel and Klonopin (which she ends up taking about 20 at a time so it doens't help her). And when her therapist tries to talk about things she should be talking about, she becomes aggressive. She's 24, never had a job, never had her license, though she lives in a small town. Basically she is co-dependent on her mother. She still wouldn't talk about the things she should, even if she were half sedated. And she goes to a community mental health care center, with subpar standards. She was recently informed that to continue getting meds she would have to begin group therapy. She has had many run-ins with the nurses and doctors. She's always calling me crying about the way they treat her, yet she is very hostile to them. And they are aware of her drug problem, yet they continue to give her klonopin.????Huh??? I'd like to go to a doctor's apt with her just once and speak up for her and actually see how they treat her, just to gain a perspective.And I'm certain she has BPD, but she is also dx something else Schizoid something or other.. She couldn't remember. She doesn't focus on that. Just Borderline is all she focuses on. It's a shame. I've grown tired of hearing about it. I even hate it when my therapist mentions it. Every so often he says something about me 'being Borderline" and I just grunt. It wouldn't be so bad except for the stigma, you know. (Be prepared, here comes my tangent!!) Ok, so what. I have BPD! Does that mean that if my boyfriend and I get into an argument or break up that I'm going to try to kill myself (unsuccessfully of course) because I want to teach him a lesson? No, it doesn't. Oh!!! Get this!! This makes me SSSSOOOOO mad! Did you hear about my therapist not returning my phone call? If not, I'll tell you about it. I called him because I needed some advice, which I don't call him often, EVEN though I do have BPD. Now, when I called him my dog was in the background howling. My therapist didn't return my phone call and mentioned in my next session (two weeks later because of xmas break) that he didn't return my phone call because he thought I was playing a joke on him. That I had a girlfriend over and she was laughing in the back ground and I was trying to quiet her. (WHAT!!!) Then in this session he mentioned that he thought that maybe since I was Borderline I was just calling to talk or play a joke on him!!! Hello! I've been seeing him for a year almost and I have never once called him to "TALK" or waste his time! Why would I "out of the blue" just begin to do that? Now, maybe there are some people that do that, granted. But, aren't there different levels and spectrums of BPD? Shorty would do that, yes. She called a boy once 10 times after he told her not to call him on the second call. I would think that by now my therapist of all people would be able to know that I wouldn't be in the habit of wasting his time. Good grief! That just hurt my feelings. And when I told him that it hurt my feelings he honestly looked like he was going to cry, and I was happy about it. Give him something to think about before he goes around make stupid assumptions! It just seems like after I read about BPD it made sense but it just seemed dreadful, you know? Like it is the hardest personality disorder to correct, plus I'm not really able to take SSRI's because I'm BPI and they make me manic. I don't really have bad mood swings since I'm taking Topamax, so that's good. But Borderline isn't something that I fess up to too easily as I don't like the stigma it carries.
Enough of that, let us move on :)
Oh dear... She has to accept responsibility for the way she is acting. I know it's really difficult, but it's unlikely she will get better until she accepts responsibility for her actions.
*I know that too! But she's living in a fantasy world and until she wants to be helped she can't be helped. I keep telling her my positive aspects of therapy as well as the negative and encouraging her to get help. Telling her that she realy needs to give therapy another shot. And I've told her that she has a drug problem. She can't really be helped until she gives that up. I used to have a pill problem. I was severely depressed and my doctor put me on AD after AD, making me manic. It got to the point that I called him up on the phone and said (Lord help me!!) "If I kill myself tonight, you're responsible." When I went in for my next appointment he referred me to a therapist and refused to see me again. That's when I moved to start school again and I was DX Bipolar. And started to recover and started therapy as well!
Tell me about it! I don't like it when my family says stuff like, wow, you sure were having some nasty mood swings a few days ago, you were like (insert description here). I know how I acted because I was there too, no one has to reiterate for me.
*It drives me crazy though when people tell stories of things I've done when I was actually manic. Things I'd rather forget. Things I wish I didn't do. That I can't stand. But, when I act a certain way or have mood swings and people talk about it like I don't know, it drives me crazy. YES, I know! I don't need you to tell me!
It's not always a mood swing, just sometimes I'm tired...know what I mean?
*Like we aren't allowed to JUST be cranky. To have normal mood swings because we have BPD. That's what drives me crazy about the "phone call incident" with my therapist. He jumped to conclusions, and he's a therapist. It's not like I'm waiting out by his car everyday after work, or calling his office on a daily basis, or calling him at home (I don't even have his home number). I mean just because I'm dx people jump to conclusions. Even my therapist, who isn't supposed to. Of all the people in the world, he's the last person I'd expect to. And he did!
Yes, I can tell from your posts that you probably wear mismatched clothes and don't wash your hair. :)
*OMG! Ok, that is weird! The mismatched clothes.... My clothes never used to match. I had a pair of plaid pants that I used to say went with everything. I used that as an excuse because I knew that they didn't match anything! Now, I stick with basic black and white so that all of my clothes match.
As for the hair, I haven't brushed my hair in over 4 years. My niece used to ask my siser (her mom) why doesn't aunt Karen ever brush her hair? I was sitting right there. My sister was just like, it's just her style. It's funky hair, cute and messy. It doesn't look undone now. I get it done and everything I just don't brush it. And I only wash it every 3 days because I get it colored and that dries it out. Also, my niece asked what a faus paux was once and I answered "My hair" It still looks stylish, I think? just a bit undone.... How did you know that??? Are you watching me??? I finger comb it, and I don't have tangles or anything but I don't use a brush or comb or anything.. I think it is cute and my stylist doesn't complain about it so.. Anyway, why do I feel the need to explain myself......:( Everyone has to take breaks sometimes! But I like being here. Last time I think I just got overwhelmed. That happens sometimes, right??
*I'm sorry you were overwhelmed... That does happen at times... Just don't let it happen again, Ok! :)
And I could never be your friend cause you don't wash your hair... Hehehe!*I wash it every 3 days... And when I don't wash it I spray perfume in it so it smells good. And I use nice products, so it is always shiny.. You wouldn't know I don't wash it everyday. Besides, it is bad to wash your hair every single day.. Here I go explaining myself again :( Darn it!
Posted by Elle2021 on January 8, 2004, at 2:54:46
In reply to Another late night? » Elle2021, posted by Karen_kay on January 7, 2004, at 11:14:40
Hi Karen,
How do you get by with never brushing your hair? Is it in a weave? Sometimes I don't brush my hair (or wash it). Seems to style better when it isn't clean, my hairstylist even backed me up on that. I do usually wash mine once a day (once every other day if I don't have to go somewhere). I can't imagine your clothes not matching! Especially after the thread about therapy fashion disasters! :) I also have mostly black and white clothes (to match my black and white thinking, hehehe). I find they really do match just about everything, so it's easy to get dressed in the morning.That is so rude of your pdoc. I can't belive he said that to you. One time I emailed my pdoc and he never emailed me back and then didn't even mention my email in the next session I had. My feelings were hurt. I didn't bring it up. And one time he didn't call me back and I was really hurt about that too. He said that it was a "miscommunication" betwixt the receptionist, me, and him. Just kinda upsets me that he blamed it on your bpd. Doesn't he know that not everybody is the same "level" of bpd. Like you said, if your bf breaks up with you, you aren't going to commit suicide. Neither would I. I haven't ever threatened to commit suicide or anything like that. You know, sometimes I feel like my pdoc doesn't even think therapy will help me. I refuse to divulge anything personal. It's really a problem for me. I just can't bring myself to tell him about anything except my OCD (and even that is limited disclosure). I only have appointments with him once a month. And, it is snowing so bad, I don't even know if I will be able to make my next one. :( I don't like missing appointments.
Maybe if Shorty got a part time job she might start doing better. I think group therapy is a good idea for her. This way she will have to control her rage or be at the mercy of being ridiculed by her fellow group-mates. I don't do group, as you already know I have enough trouble talking alone with my pdoc. Hopefully she will be able to get things under control soon. The doctor should wean her off the Klonopin. I take that, and it is pretty addictive. Maybe detox would help her?
Well, I'm going to be giddy awaiting your response! :)
Elle
Posted by Karen_kay on January 8, 2004, at 12:27:41
In reply to Re: Another late night? » Karen_kay, posted by Elle2021 on January 8, 2004, at 2:54:46
How do you get by with never brushing your hair?
*?? I just do. I don't have to brush it. It isn't messy or anything really. It used to be really messy (when my neice used to ask about it) but now it is sleek and shiny. Now I'm in this "phase" where I'm overly concerned with my appearance-I want to look like I have it together so I can fool myself into believing I do. I know it isn't true, but still. Everybody has their something.Is it in a weave?
For some reason this made me laugh. I guess some people think because you don't brush your hair it is ratty. My hair is fine so I just don't have to brush it. It's not fine like a cat's hair fine, but it is fine. No, I don't have a weave.I can't imagine your clothes not matching! Especially after the thread about therapy fashion disasters! :) I also have mostly black and white clothes (to match my black and white thinking, hehehe). I find they really do match just about everything, so it's easy to get dressed in the morning.
*I never thought about the black and white wardrobe to match the black and white thinking! Hmph! When I was in high school and first starting college I was a punk! But, I had to sit out of school for a while a find a semirespectable job and grow up, so I had to learn to dress myself. IE. finding clothes that matched. I know which clothes look good together and everything. But, I just did an inventory on my clothing stock and found that I pretty much stick with basic black and white, with a little bit or khaki thrown in for color! It's strange that I own so much black though, considering the fact that I do laundry once a day.One time I emailed my pdoc and he never emailed me back and then didn't even mention my email in the next session I had. My feelings were hurt. I didn't bring it up.
*Yeah, if he doesn't call me back, I'd rather him not bring it up. I don't want to hear some lame excuse. I'd rather think that he just didn't get my message. There was another time that he didn't call me as well. I had a flashback and I called him twice the morning of my appointment, which again is very rare for me. I didn't tell him I had a flashback, I didn't even know what it was. I just called to try and get my appointment switched to an earlier time. He didn't call me back. When I saw him that afternoon he said, "I noticed you called me again." I just ignored him and told him what happened. I figured the best way to put him in his place is to hake him feel like crap by letting him know what I was going through and showing him how he is never there anyway. (And see, this makes me wonder. This statement I just made. Like, "I'll show him" Is that me being spiteful Karen or is it BPD?) Man, maybe he really is a jerk... Maybe it is just my black and white thinking? Hard to say.....
Like you said, if your bf breaks up with you, you aren't going to commit suicide. Neither would I. I haven't ever threatened to commit suicide or anything like that.
*I haven't ever threatened to commit suicide because my boyfriend says he's going to leave me or anything like that. I have actually attempted suicide 2 times. But, both times I was severely depressed (before I was on the current medication I am taking now and is working WONDERFULLY!!!!!! YAHOO!!!).. So, it has nothing to do with BPD, and maybe something to do with Bipolar, maybe nothing to do with it? I don't know. Maybe it just has everything to do with me? No, I'd have to say honetly it had eerything to do with being depressed, because since I've been on a medication that actually works to stabilize my moods, I feel so great! But, yeah. It does drive me crazy to think that my therapist would assume that I would do something so silly and juvinile. But it bothers me. Because he's supposed to know me too. And if he misunderstands me that much, how much help can he really be? He's just got the wrong idea of me completely, based on what he's read in some book. He's not listening to what I tell him, you know? I had this discussion with him last week... I am a bit upset because he only hears the bad things aobut me anyway. After all, I'm not there to change the good things. So, he has a certain picture of me in his head. So, why wouldn't he make assumptions about me? It's a no win situation. I'm going to be apt to start wasting my time talking about the Finer Points of Karen now,jsut so he has a more realistic picture of me. At least then he won't make false assumptions based on DSM criteria. Man, I'm still mad!You know, sometimes I feel like my pdoc doesn't even think therapy will help me. I refuse to divulge anything personal. It's really a problem for me. I just can't bring myself to tell him about anything except my OCD (and even that is limited disclosure).
*I was that way too! My therapist said I was the most resistant client he ever had. And I believe that. It's hard. I have a hard time trusting people. I don't really tell my Pdoc when I have problems with anxiety until I have them for about a month straight. I wait until it gets to the point that I can not take it anymore, and past that point. But, my problem is with denial. I think if I deny that the problem exists, then it will go away. And it worked in the past. I forgot a lot of really bad things, only they came back to bite me in the butt, in different ways and I'm working really hard now to try and remember my own age... That sucks!
Why do you have a hard time talking about your own problems? What is it you fear? If it helps to talk to me, I'll listen. Soemtimes it helps to jsut talk to a computer, soemone you don't have to "look in the eyes"... That stinks. I know sometimes when I'm looking at my therapist I feel like he's judging me, wondering why I "didn't leave" or why I didn't do this or didn't do that. And sometimes I feel like he feels sorry for me. I hate that.I don't like missing appointments.
**I hate missing appointments! I haven't missed a single one yet. I was even visiting a friend for a week, two hours away and drove back for an appointment rather than change it. Go figure. Maybe you can take a bus? Or have your mom drive you?Maybe if Shorty got a part time job she might start doing better.
She's tried a part time job a got fired. From her perspective, "It ended bad." Now, if she says it ended bad, it must have ended pretty darn bad. And it was jsut Walmart. That was about the only experience she has ever had with a job. Her uncle also got her a job in a factory where he worked, but she lasted for about a week. Again, she got fired for her temper. She just has these fits of rage when something, anything happens.
I think group therapy is a good idea for her.
She had to be in group one of the many times she was in the hospital. That is what she will be going into when she has to resume therapy. She says she doesn't mind it, but she won't talk unless she is made to. And I'm certain she won't talk aobut her co-dependency on her mother, which is what she needs to be discussing. I can't even discuss it with her. She flies into a fit of rage with me if I try. And detox won't work either. She won't do it unless someone makes her go. She wouldn't go on her own. And her mom gets all kinds of pain meds and such, so she has a supply of sorts. She IM last night saying she was going to SI and it wouldn't happen if her mom would have taken her to get vodka like she wanted. I just don't know what to do... She's been to the hospital and stayed for a week or two at a time, but she never comes back and gets proper therapy like she says she will. Maybe she's a lost cause? Her mom's kinda the same way, was co-dependent on her father..
Posted by Elle2021 on January 9, 2004, at 14:15:44
In reply to Girl, you have to start getting some sleep! » Elle2021, posted by Karen_kay on January 8, 2004, at 12:27:41
AHHHHHHHHHH!!! I had an awesome post for you and then I forgot to put my name in at the top and it made me have to hit the browsers back button and the post was gone!!!! Argh.
Well I will do my best to rewrite it.
Okay, I am in the midst of a manic episode. I feel wonderful, like I could run a marathon! It's great when depression lifts for a while.
I didn't mean to imply that your hair was ratty, silly girl. It's just that the only people I know who don't have to brush their hair are my friends who are black, and they have weaves, so I just assumed you did. Sorry! I hope I didn't hurt your feelings or offend you, that is never my intention!
The reason I am afraid to talk to my pdoc is because I am afraid he will judge me or something. I have some real problems with intimacy. For instance I could never talk to any of my boyfriends about me or my feelings. I could sit and listen to them talk about their feelings for hours, but the second they asked me to share...I was outta there. Thats another thing, my pdoc is always asking me why I don't have a boyfriend. Well, that is the reason. Plus I have TONS of pet peeves; little things upset me. If you have any advice on how I can open with my doctor, I would love and appreciate it. Oh yeah, and, I think I am going to be able to make it to my pdoc app. I'm excited cause I have some questions for him. First of all, I want to know what he thinks is wrong with me and I want to see my file. I'm really curious about what he thinks about me.
>*I haven't ever threatened to commit suicide because my boyfriend says he's going to leave me or anything like that. I have actually attempted suicide 2 times.
I haven't ever tried to commit suicide, but I have suicidal ideation. I think about it, but I would never be able to go through with it. One time I had this really whacked out dream. I was wearing this long black coat and I was walking through the snow and pretty soon I just collapsed into the snow because I had taken too many pills. My pdoc thought it was because I was thinking too much about suicide, but the real reason is because I am so paranoid about taking the exact amount of correct medication. By the way, I am super happy that you found a med that makes you feel better!!
>This statement I just made. Like, "I'll show him" Is that me being spiteful Karen or is it BPD?)Well, I think since it was a defense mechanism, it was probably the bpd. You didn't want him to know it hurt your feelings.
I have an idea for Shorty. What you need to do is call her doctor and tell him you are worried about her co-dependecy problem. Have him address it in group (indirectly of course). BUT, tell him NOT to tell her that you called him and suggested it, that would probably make her really mad.
Well, I look forward to hearing from you again really soon!
Elle
Posted by Karen_kay on January 9, 2004, at 16:13:34
In reply to Re: Girl, you have to start getting some sleep! » Karen_kay, posted by Elle2021 on January 9, 2004, at 14:15:44
Don't you hate it when you lose a post. And they are always the caring, insightful ones too. So, when you rewrite them, they end up being spiteful and angry. Right????
Manic episodes aren't usually so fun for me. Well, they are at the time. It's just that the aftermath isn't quite so fun. I'm notorious for spending money I don't have, ending up completely naked in public (and I mean Main Street at 4 pm in Small Town, USA), I'm highly suseptable to suggestion and my sister knows it. That's what bothers me. She knows that I do things that just aren't right and she persists in leading me to continue doing them. But, I still love her. Hypomania I do enjoy. I'm productive and enjoyable to be around. My friends call me "Fun Karen" when I'm hypomanic. I can stay up until 2 am working on a project and them party until 6. Then sleep for a few hours and make it to a 10 am class and still pay attention! It's amazing, simply amazing. Only with that soon comes a manic cycle, and that's where the trouble comes. That's where I start pacing, hallucinating and just losing touch with reality altogether.
But, I truly would take a manic episode over depression ANYDAY! Honestly!You didn't offend me by talking about my hair at all! I even explain it to my sisters, who see me! I even curl the ends at times. It was strange, my therapist last session remarked that I got a haircut (because I curled the ends out). I just ignored him. Is that rude you think? I didn't get a hair cut and didn't feel like wasting my time going into the details of styling tips with him. So, I simply said no and he persisted saying that it looked shorter and so I just sat there and finally when he saw I wasn't going to comment any further he said, "Well, it looks nice anyway." Hello, if I was going to get it cut, I'd get the roots touched up as well. I felt like pointing that out to him, but I didn't want to point out the fact that my roots were showing in case he didn't notice. But, anyway you didn't offend me. I know you think my hair is ratty and that I must have spiders living in my hair. As a matter of fact I do, and I may invite some of them over to your house if you don't choose your words more carefully! I don't know why I found the comment about the weave funny, I just did. It is odd sometimes what I find funny and what I don't. At the time that just struck me as funny. I guess because I don't have a weave?? I don't know.
I had a hard time opening up to my therapist. An extremely hard time!!!!! I think that what helps is learning why you have such a hard time opening up. You say it is the fear that you will be judged. Do you have a good relationship with your Pdoc? I feared that too, at first. I still do, to an extent. But he's there to help you. Maybe you could start off with something small. A small secret that you wouldn't want him to know but if he did it wouldn't be the end of the world.
I know that what helped me was the fact that I had to be in control, because as a child I had none. So, my therapist picked up on this and let me lead the sessions for about 3 months. We basically chit-chatted and didn't get anywhere honestly, but it helped create a bond and helped prove to me that he wasn't there to be a "control hound" or to order me around. After that, I started having nightmares and flashbacks and remembering things and he took control back. But, before he gave me control, we weren't getting anywhere. I just sat there and looked at him with contempt. I felt like he was there to control me, not to help me. That's the approach that helped me. But that's not the situation you're in..... Sorry, rambling...How long have you been seeing your Pdoc? And what is the relationship like? Has he ever judged you before? So, why do you think he would now? I'm reading "In Session" right now and it's very enlightening. I'm beginning to realize that if I really want to tackle my problems, I have to face them head-on. So, I ask you, if your problem is with intimacy, is it that you are afraid that your Pdoc will judge you or are you afraid to let him know your intimate thoughts and feelings? (Am I off base here?) What better way to learn to be intimate, not sexually of course, then with someone who is safe?
He's not going to judge you. He will challenge you, yes! And it will be hard. But just htink of the rewards.
I know what you mean about wanting to know what is wrong with you. One time I asked my therapist, "Do you think something is wrong with me?" and he said, "Well, you're here." Not the answer I was looking for! And I always go in and ask him if he thinks I have antisocial personality disorder, or who would play me in my own made-for-TV movie, or what type of car I would be... I always have some type of question for him. It was sweet, last night I had a nightmare about him and I was terrified and I called him today to make sure he was ok adn he said that he was frustrated because a meeting was canceled but he'd be better if he had a client like me today :) It's the little things like that, you know! He even offered me an appointment today to talk aobut the dream, but I didn't have makeup on and I'm just a pain! I can't go anywhere without makeup.... Of course I didn't say that. Just politely declined and said I'd be fine. I hate having nightmares because those are the only dreams I remember :(
Sometimes it's strange that we know our dreams and what they mean. And it's also nice to have a different perspective on them too. What bothers me is when the shrink thinks they are right, no matter what (I'm not suggesting yours does this). Mine is always open to interpretation. I'm glad! I bet that dream was visual though with the black coat and the white snow. The drastic difference in your appearance and the appearance of the background. Does that mean anything to you?
Shorty still isn't going to group, so I suspect they'll cut her off of her meds soon. And I found out last night she did cut herself because she didn't get vodka. But, she was getting drunk last night when I talked to her. I would call the dr except that I don't trust they'll keep it confidential. I know the place she goes and I really don't trust the work they do.
Awaiting your reply,
Karen
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