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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by judy1 on August 29, 2003, at 17:56:49
In reply to Re: Now about those tranferences...... » judy1, posted by dissociative jane on August 28, 2003, at 16:46:08
Judy,
Will you please tell me how you KNOW that you are dissociating in your pdocs office and exactly what you experience?I feel like I'm going further and further away- sometimes like I'm outside my body and just observing (sometimes retreating to a safe place that I've always had), other times having no recollection of 'leaving'. Since I've done a lot of work on grounding myself, it doesn't happen as much as it used to. If I do in fact 'lose time', I depend on my psychiatrist to tell me what happened. It's all pretty frightening- do you have the same kind of experiences?
take care, judy
Posted by Dinah on August 29, 2003, at 21:29:27
In reply to Re: Now about those tranferences......, posted by judy1 on August 29, 2003, at 17:56:49
I call it "whooshing". It feels like one of those places in the movie where the camera quickly pans out and everything looks distorted. I don't do it so often anymore.
And I have other ways of dissociating too. It's my favorite coping mechanism, so I've got quite an impressive collection.
I most often just blank out. I might even be answering him, or I might be "staring at dancing angels only I can see" (as he puts it). But my mind just goes blank and I don't really take in what he's saying anymore.
We're trying to work on at least my being able to communicate to him what's happening when it's happening. And he's gotten pretty good at spotting it too.
Are you unaware when you're dissociating, Jane?
Posted by stebby on August 30, 2003, at 21:03:19
In reply to Re: Now about those tranferences......, posted by judy1 on August 29, 2003, at 17:56:49
I think I dissociated a couple of months ago during a session. My therpist was asking me to describe the part of me that I want to keep from coming out and do so by cutting. It was so intense and before I knew what was happening, I was somewhere else. I couldn't speak and lost touch with my T for a couple of minutes. She then jumped in and changed the subject to get me out of that state. At first I barely heard her and it was a struggle to ome back to reality. The weird thing was that I had an incredible desire to cut afterwards. It was all so strange. I kept going back to "that place" for the next couple of days. Does that sound like dissociation?
Posted by judy1 on August 31, 2003, at 11:55:36
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » judy1, posted by stebby on August 30, 2003, at 21:03:19
It most definitely sounds like dissociation, and especially your description of getting triggered, then coping by dissociating, then coming back and wanting to use another coping skill- SI. It all sounds very familiar to me, so obviously there are a bunch of us out there who do the same kinds of things. It sounds like you have a good T if this only happens occasionally- or are you just now getting into the tough stuff? If that's the case, then you need to make sure you're safe first before you get into that- which means learning good grounding skills and mine recently did this- helped me create a safe place (in my mind) where I can still be mostly present but go to so I don't do anything to hurt myself. Also if you're able to come back within a few minutes, that really bodes well for any future work- sometimes it takes me considerably longer (like the entire hour) before I'm present again. Hope some of this helped and let us know your progress. take care, judy
Posted by stebby on August 31, 2003, at 21:38:01
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » stebby, posted by judy1 on August 31, 2003, at 11:55:36
Yes, I think we are just getting into some tough stuff. I don't think my T wants us to go there until I get the SI under control. It sounds like you have a history of SI? Do you still struggle with this? How long have you been in therapy?
Posted by judy1 on September 4, 2003, at 13:19:39
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » judy1, posted by stebby on August 31, 2003, at 21:38:01
> Yes, I think we are just getting into some tough stuff. I don't think my T wants us to go there until I get the SI under control. It sounds like you have a history of SI? Do you still struggle with this? How long have you been in therapy?
Yes, I do struggle with SI- especially when we get into deeper issues. I agree that your T should wait until you have other coping skills in place to prevent the SI- although I still resort to it on occasion (just not as seriously as I used to). I've been in therapy off and on (more off:-) for about 5 years, but I have a history of mental disorders that go back to early teen years (like 20 years ago!). How long have you been going? Are you feeling better now? I know how scary it is to delve into places you don't want to go (the reason for all my gaps in therapy), just make sure you feel strong enough to go there even if it takes a long time.
take care, judy
Posted by HannahW on September 4, 2003, at 14:04:32
In reply to Now about those tranferences......, posted by Pfinstegg on August 27, 2003, at 19:42:57
Finding this board is a Godsend. Thank you to everyone for sharing so honestly. I've been trying to research the internet to find out why I'm such a freak for being obsessed with my pdoc. It wasn't until I found this board that I realized the word I was looking for is "transference." I always thought transference was just projecting a simple emotion (like anger) toward your therapist that you really feel for someone else. It is, but I didn't realize that it could also be more complicated and involve love or obsession.
I started seeing my pdoc 6 months ago, for medication adjustments only. (I was feeling depressed again.) Our appointments were always exclusively medical-related, but I began to develop this deep desire to know her. I'm still not totally convinced what I'm feeling is transference, because my situation is complicated by the fact that most of my friends are doctors, so I entered my pdoc's office for the first time with the general awareness that doctors are people that don't have their lives together any better than most people. (Sometimes on the contrary!) I found myself liking her as a person (and as an equal) and wishing we could be social. That feeling continued, and eventually I brought it up to her. She immediately said she couldn't do that, but when I pointed out that we hadn't entered into a therapeutic relationship, she said she'd consider it. A few days later, she called and told me she couldn't "change gears" even though we discussed that any social relationship would require an end to our professional relationship.
I continue to think of her as a person and not just a doctor, and since I'm exceptionally sensitive to the nonverbal responses of people, I feel like I see things like signs of an unhappy marriage when she talks about her husband. I'm always sort of "psychanalyzing" her back. Does anyone else do this?
Anyway, I don't in any way hold her on a pedestal or feel that she has any kind of "magic" over me. I can't say that I love her, because I'm aware that I barely know her. But I am obsessed with wanting to find out if we'd be as good a social match as I think we would.
After 6 months of fairly unsuccessful medication adjustments (those are hell!) she suggested that we start therapy. We've had one therapeutic session. It was a good session, but this feeling is intensifying, and it's bound to get worse. After reading about everyone's experiences, I know I'm going to have to discuss it with her, which almost makes me ill to think about. How mortifying!
Does anybody have any thoughts to share with me about whether this is classic transference, or whether there is some chance that my desire to know her is genuine?
Hannah
Posted by Dinah on September 4, 2003, at 16:02:48
In reply to Re: Now about those tranferences......, posted by HannahW on September 4, 2003, at 14:04:32
Hi Hannah. Welcome to Babble.
I think you can maybe answer your own question better than anyone. Is it usual for you to be so obsessed with being friends with someone? Even someone who you think you'd like? If this is way more intense than is normal for you, you might want to think about the possibility of transference. As you can see it's pretty common and nothing to be ashamed of.
But if it's pretty common for you to feel this way about a potential friend, then there's no reason to turn everything into transference.
Is this an unusual occurance for you?
Be glad she stuck to her boundaries if she's now doing therapy with you. She'd have had to refer you out if you had become friends. And having a terrific therapist is just as valuable as having a terrific friend. :)
Have you ever read "In Session" by Deborah Lott? It helped me a lot in figuring out the truth of what I felt for my therapist and normalizing those feelings.
Dinah
Posted by stebby on September 4, 2003, at 19:22:52
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » stebby, posted by judy1 on September 4, 2003, at 13:19:39
Thanks for the response. I have only been in therapy for a year and a half and have only been struggling with SI about as long (its pretty atypical for it to develop as an adult as I understand it). Anyway, its kind of like an addiction and I don't want to give it up. How did you or are you?
Posted by stebby on September 4, 2003, at 19:30:21
In reply to Re: Now about those tranferences......, posted by HannahW on September 4, 2003, at 14:04:32
It sure sounds like transference to me, and yes, it is mortifying to discuss. On the other hand, once you discuss it, it takes some of the power out of it, and it is quite common. I thought I was somekind of a freak until I came to this board and found so many others struggling with the same thing. There are somke recent threads here worth reading: "in love with therpist" and "why bother with therapy?" Dinah's suggestion for "In Session" is definitely worth it. Good luck and let us know what happens.
Posted by judy1 on September 5, 2003, at 12:19:47
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » judy1, posted by stebby on September 4, 2003, at 19:22:52
Actually I've done it since a teen, why do you think you picked it up recently? Did you know someone else who did? I understand how difficult it is to give up and why you don't want to, so that's why I emphasized that you need to develop other coping skills before you even start to give it up. I still do it occasionally if I'm really really stressed (but maybe 20% of the times I used to do it).
best of luck, judy
Posted by stebby on September 6, 2003, at 20:28:54
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » stebby, posted by judy1 on September 5, 2003, at 12:19:47
Thanks for your responses..Its a very strange story how I picked it up. You see, my pet often scratched me on the arm. I started to like the feeling of it and then ended up doing it myself...silly,silly me. Now I'm hooked, but its definitley improving. How about you?
Posted by judy1 on September 7, 2003, at 20:56:14
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » judy1, posted by stebby on September 6, 2003, at 20:28:54
You understand why you're hooked right?- the endorphin release after injury. I knew a couple of girls who did it when I was a teen and I remember trying it and feeling a lot more present-for me it's a way to return from dissociating and it works. I don't like the scars and the explanations I have to give so I really want to stop. That's why I'm learning other behaviors to use.
take care, judy
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 8, 2003, at 2:00:38
In reply to Re: Now about those tranferences...... » HannahW, posted by stebby on September 4, 2003, at 19:30:21
Hi Hannah.. in my view, pretty much everything you experience in psychotherapy is transference. This doesn't mean that the feelings aren't real, or, that if you were not in therapy, you would not become dear friends with your therapist. The fact that you developed such strong feelings for her so quickly probably means that you and she are a "good match", which would be a plus in terms of a successful outcome.
What we all experience is a unique combination of very intense feelings of love, closeness, hatred and anger- all combined with a basic continuous frustration of those same feelings. If the therapist doesn't maintain the proper boundaries, a lot of pain and harm can occur to the patient- there are some powerful examples of that in past threads here, We all wish for personal loving relationships with our therapists, but at the same time, we count on our therapists not fulfilling these wishes, for our safety and emotional well-being.
From what I have learned, dealing with all the feelings involved in the transference, while your therapist is using his/her countertranference to understand your experience, - all of the emotions that occur in the space between the two of you-is THE curative agent in psychotherapy. Not all therapists feel this way, exactly, but almost all have moved at least some extent towards this view. There is less emphasis on such traditional techniques as interpretation, and more on the emotional interactions of the moment- and then the next moment and the next! (and before you know it, you are faced with talking about the very feelings you swore you would never mention!)
I do hope you have a wonderful experience with your new therapist.
Pfinstegg
Posted by stebby on September 8, 2003, at 20:20:14
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » stebby, posted by judy1 on September 7, 2003, at 20:56:14
Yes, I've read that the endorphin release may be why its addictive. I don't know if I buy that explanation 100%. What other ways have you found to placate the urge without giving in?
Posted by Kyp on September 9, 2003, at 2:36:26
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations......, posted by stebby on September 8, 2003, at 20:20:14
I have not done self harm for a few months now, but when I did feel compelled to cut, I felt I could breathe afterwards and it was a release, a satisfaction in obtaining a desire. A couple minutes later I felt a rush sometimes, but not as the goal.
I dissociate during sessions sometimes, it feels like I am enclosed in a see through bag and can't hear as clearly. Sometimes I feel taller or shorter or younger or all of a sudden naive. I am very comfortable with my therapist yet I don't always tell her it is happening. She picks up on it and usually just goes on or asks what I am feeling at the moment.All for her information in being able to help me recognize it more.
Posted by judy1 on September 10, 2003, at 10:47:17
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations......, posted by stebby on September 8, 2003, at 20:20:14
I guess since I use SI for different reasons then you- for me it's a way to come back from dissociation- I probably work on different skills. Number one is staying grounded (really difficult sometimes). Another thing I do when I feel a great deal of anxiety is retreat to a safe place in my mind but still be present- like I can converse with people even though I feel I'm in a room filled with pillows, etc. It's kind of a neat technique and works well for me so that I don't have to dissociate and therefore not SI. There's a site- llamapalace something- sorry? that has lots of info on SI and a chatroom where people share ways not to SI, like snapping rubberbands on your wrist and placing ice where you normally cut, things like that. I think you really have to want to stop first though.
take care, judy
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2003, at 20:19:15
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » stebby, posted by judy1 on September 10, 2003, at 10:47:17
http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/guide.html
That's the website. It's great.
Posted by stebby on September 10, 2003, at 21:28:25
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations......, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2003, at 20:19:15
Thanks for your ideas and the website. I'll definitely check it out.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 11, 2003, at 23:27:39
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations......, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2003, at 20:19:15
> http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/guide.html
>
> That's the website. It's great.I agree, and it seems to be working fine, but FYI:
> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:27:26 -0700
>
> secret shame/ self-injury
>
> Unfortunately, the small local ISP that hosted it was eaten by a large ISP... I've had to move it from http://palace.net/~llama/psych to http://selfharm.net. I'm actually excited about this as it will allow me to add more features, like a q and a section...
>
> I appreciate the links to my page, and I'm hoping this summer to add a lot of stuff. Please update your link to http://www.selfharm.net. Thanks!
>
> Deb MartinsonBob
Posted by Dinah on September 12, 2003, at 5:37:33
In reply to Re: Now about that secret shame......, posted by Dr. Bob on September 11, 2003, at 23:27:39
Thanks Dr. Bob. I've updated my favorites list.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on September 14, 2003, at 21:45:58
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations......, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2003, at 20:19:15
Dinah,
Thank you for that post. The web-site that you pointed to was actually shown to me during my last hospital stay. It is one of the best descriptions, and offers some of the best information in a nutshell as I've seen.Dee.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on September 14, 2003, at 22:26:22
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » stebby, posted by judy1 on September 10, 2003, at 10:47:17
Hi,
I just thought I might add in a bit of my own experience with SI and Dissociation. It was in my Psychiatrist's office that a medical professional first noticed that I dissociate. I was doing the "going far away and getting small" thing, after some difficult and pointed questions.
Then, I looked into this whole dissociation thing and realized that I do lots of it, and some of what I thought was forgetfullness was also dissociation. My Therapist started working with me on the dissociative elements, and finally, as I think I mentioned here before, I was diagnosed with DID.
I use dissociation when someone is yelling at me, when I get hurt, when I get sick, when emotional events start getting the better of me, and at most any other uncomfortable time. Recently, I got hit by a car, thrown onto the street, and lay on the ground bleeding for a while. I wound up with stitches in my head, a bruise and abbrasion to my shoulder. In the end though, I never felt more than a couple of twinges, but nothing that I could call pain. I guess that's how it goes.
As for the SI, I tend to use it when the noise in my head gets to be too much, when I'm angry at myself, when I feel as if I've hurt someone else, basically, anytime I feel out of control or bad.
I'm working on trying to reduce the SI. It seems very much related to the dissociation though. I don't feel very much pain when I cut, sometimes none at all. I think that what I'm mostly looking for is the blood. Sometimes it's how much skin I can remove from my feet. The next day, when I feel the twinge from the injuries, it's a warm reminder that I'm still here, and that I can remember what I had done the day before.
After I realized that what I was doing was SI, I took a look into my past, and found that I had beend doing it since my very early teens. I did it then, mostly when I was angry. My family looked on anger as a bad thing, unless it was from the adults.
Anyway, I kept it, and it has grown, changed, and taken on new aspects. Hopefully, it will be put to rest someday soon. I have too many self inflicted scars, and all that they show is that I managed to evade some painfull situations.
I guess though that there is some difficulty in going from knowlege to belief; that is what I'm trying to do with both the SI and the DID. It's not an easy, but I'm kind of stuck with it now.
I wish all of you luck who are on either or both journeys. They're not easy but they are worth it.
Dee.
Posted by Darryl Sanford on September 20, 2003, at 7:56:38
In reply to Re: Now about those dissociations...... » Dinah, posted by deirdrehbrt on September 14, 2003, at 21:45:58
I have had two or more major depressions in my life, separated by as long as 15 years of normalcy (or nearly that). This latest seems to be taking a long time to fade away, as some physical discomfort still lingers. I am taking a low dose antidepressant, and doing pretty well, as I'm able to work and all that.
I'd be interested in knowing the experience of others. So much you hear these days would lead you to believe we should all be on medicine for everything--from social anxiety to heartburn--for the rest of our lives. How many people get depressed, then get well and off of medicine for the long haul?
Darryl
Posted by kyp on September 20, 2003, at 8:57:31
In reply to depression recovery, posted by Darryl Sanford on September 20, 2003, at 7:56:38
I am starting a new post for a reply to your comments.
KYP> I have had two or more major depressions in my life, separated by as long as 15 years of normalcy (or nearly that). This latest seems to be taking a long time to fade away, as some physical discomfort still lingers. I am taking a low dose antidepressant, and doing pretty well, as I'm able to work and all that.
>
> I'd be interested in knowing the experience of others. So much you hear these days would lead you to believe we should all be on medicine for everything--from social anxiety to heartburn--for the rest of our lives. How many people get depressed, then get well and off of medicine for the long haul?
>
> Darryl
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