Psycho-Babble Politics Thread 1008400

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Re: Joe Bageant » Beckett

Posted by sigismund on January 27, 2012, at 22:34:55

In reply to Re: Joe Bageant » sigismund, posted by Beckett on January 27, 2012, at 20:17:12

I am some way into "Deer Hunting with Jesus" though it has been slow because I took a smidgen of trimipramine last night. It made me sleep and gave me continuous dreams. Nowadays I can follow American politics on the internet (Truthout, Nation of Change). I guess back then it was New York Review of Books. Back then before the sense of emergency. That must have been when I subscribed to Harpers? Lewis Lapham's tone regarding the Bush Administration was a continuous surprise and delight. It still takes my breath away
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20051121/msgs/584041.html
and I shall try to match it all up with Joe Bageant.

 

Re: Joe Bageant

Posted by sigismund on January 28, 2012, at 0:32:57

In reply to Re: Joe Bageant » sigismund, posted by Beckett on January 27, 2012, at 22:25:03

We have three levels. Local, State and Federal.

Federal is governed by the constitution which is something of a hybrid between the British system and the US constitution. There is the Governor General as the representative of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II who is our Head of State, but whom we see only rarely. There is the Senate and the House of Representatives. I wonder how close Australia is to Canada?

 

Fracking

Posted by Beckett on February 3, 2012, at 4:11:16

In reply to Joe Bageant, posted by sigismund on January 25, 2012, at 20:01:58

Here is what I see as a contradictory message from the last State of the Union Address concerning domestic fracking. That we can achieve clean fracking. This and other contradictory statements left me very confused:

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We have a supply of natural gas that can last America nearly 100 years. And my administration will take every possible action to safely develop this energy. Experts believe this will support more than 600,000 jobs by the end of the decade. And Im requiring all companies that drill for gas on public lands to disclose the chemicals they use, because America will develop this resource without putting the health and safety of our citizens at risk. The development of natural gas will create jobs and power trucks and factories that are cleaner and cheaper, proving that we dont have to choose between our environment and our economy. And by the way, it was public research dollars, over the course of 30 years, that helped develop the technologies to extract all this natural gas out of shale rock, reminding us that government support is critical in helping businesses get new energy ideas off the ground.

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/2/2/obamas_support_for_natural_gas_drilling

The democracy now transcript mentions that Australia has had flammable water as well. From fracking?

 

Foreclosure by Loriene Niedecker

Posted by Beckett on February 3, 2012, at 4:36:11

In reply to Joe Bageant, posted by sigismund on January 25, 2012, at 20:01:58

http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/niedecker/poems.html


FORECLOSURE

Tell em to take my bare walls down
my cement abutments
their parties thereof
and clause of claws

Leave me the land
Scratch out: the land

May prose and property both die out
and leave me peace

 

Re: Fracking

Posted by sigismund on February 3, 2012, at 19:44:32

In reply to Fracking, posted by Beckett on February 3, 2012, at 4:11:16

>Well, virtually every Republican candidate right now is out for elimination of the EPA, which shows the deep, deep influence of oil and gas on Congress and on the Republican Party.

Australia is a dry continent. There are many regions that will not be able to function if the groundwater goes. Successive governments have readily granted exploration licences. State Labor governments mainly. Prime farming land and heritage areas should be treated with greater care.

The choicest bit, in the US rather than here, is the way pro-drilling is somehow linked to Christianity and moral values. This kind of overreach normally leads to disaster. Wanton and shameless. Certainly not conservative. I can listen to real conservatives. I heard Roger Scruton yesterday. He was fine.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Green-Philosophy-Think-Seriously-Planet/dp/1848870760

 

Re: Fracking » sigismund

Posted by Beckett on February 3, 2012, at 21:41:11

In reply to Re: Fracking, posted by sigismund on February 3, 2012, at 19:44:32

That looks good. I think it's being released in the US under this title: http://www.amazon.com/Think-Seriously-About-Planet-Environmental/dp/0199895570/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_3

I am beginning to understand what you have previously mentioned regarding conservatism vs the conservatism linked to the religious right here. To me they have always been intertwined. I am finding the Bageant book helpful toward this end.

I haven't heard of Scruton. I wish I could read more efficiently. I do much better with audiobooks.

 

Re: Fracking » Beckett

Posted by sigismund on February 4, 2012, at 1:19:18

In reply to Re: Fracking » sigismund, posted by Beckett on February 3, 2012, at 21:41:11

Well, Scruton is English, although now with the American Enterprise Institute (I think). But I like him. (I wonder if he is a little like William F Buckley? Though less culture warish.) It is a conservatism that goes back to Edmund Burke. Joe Bageant is just brilliant.

Who says we are 20 years behind? Listen to this

ttps://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/mining/monckton/monckton-speaks-to-mining-industry-share-this-video?t=dXNlcmlkPTE0MTY4NixlbWFpbGlkPTU1Nw%3D%3D

 

Let me correct that link

Posted by sigismund on February 4, 2012, at 1:20:16

In reply to Re: Fracking » Beckett, posted by sigismund on February 4, 2012, at 1:19:18

https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/mining/monckton/monckton-speaks-to-mining-industry-share-this-video?t=dXNlcmlkPTE0MTY4NixlbWFpbGlkPTU1Nw%3D%3D

 

Re: Fracking » sigismund

Posted by Beckett on February 16, 2012, at 8:16:16

In reply to Re: Fracking, posted by sigismund on February 3, 2012, at 19:44:32

Well, I was reading this, and if correct, goes a long ways towards explaining this pressure to frack In the US and why Obama's speech sounded so awkward on this subject.

http://www.nationofchange.org/losing-world-1329237182

 

Re: Fracking » Beckett

Posted by sigismund on February 16, 2012, at 22:24:39

In reply to Re: Fracking » sigismund, posted by Beckett on February 16, 2012, at 8:16:16

You did mean to link the Chomsky article?

I had read it, but it was not to do with fracking, was it?

We were in Hanoi for the thousandth anniversary of the founding of the city. I forget the legend now....something to do with a turtle.

We walked around the lake in the centre called Hoan Kiem which was decorated all round with big balloons and light shows and many people out, and naturally I thought of what it must have felt like when Nixon bombed it that Christmas. (Was it to facilitate the negotiations in Paris?) And the 2M dead.

 

Re: Fracking » sigismund

Posted by Beckett on February 16, 2012, at 22:48:59

In reply to Re: Fracking » Beckett, posted by sigismund on February 16, 2012, at 22:24:39

Yes, to Chomsky:
Not all prominent voices foresee American decline.  Among inter­national media, there is none more serious and responsible than the London Financial Times.  It recently devoted a full page to the optimistic expectation that new technology for extracting North American's fossil fuels might allow the U.S. to be come energy inde­pendent, hence to retain its global hegemony for a century.  There is no mention of the kind of world the U.S. would rule in this happy event, but not for lack of evidence.
At about the same time, the International Energy Agency re­ported that, with rapidly increasing carbon emissions from fossil fuel use, the limit of safety will be reached by 2017 if the world continues on its present course. The door is closing, the IEA chief economist said, and very soon it will be closed for ever.

I would like to visit Vietnam very much.

 

Re: Fracking » Beckett

Posted by sigismund on February 17, 2012, at 1:41:56

In reply to Re: Fracking » sigismund, posted by Beckett on February 16, 2012, at 8:16:16

I was not so impressed by the LFT when I was in Europe. My favourite conservative (if that means much) economic commentator is Ambrose Evans-Pritchard from the Telegraph.

I did read that now that you mention it. For some reason I was not particularly impressed. Of course energy for the US *not* from the Middle East is important. But I am overwhelmed by dumbness and self defeating policies. OTOH, I hear that California is doing solar...large scale, not photovoltaic. I have heard this man is doing that there (no support here), although it is not mentioned on wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mills_(solar_researcher)

 

Re: Fracking

Posted by sigismund on February 17, 2012, at 1:44:39

In reply to Re: Fracking » sigismund, posted by Beckett on February 16, 2012, at 22:48:59

They have a pilot plant in Bakersfield.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=energy-mills-ausra

 

Mills

Posted by Beckett on February 19, 2012, at 9:19:21

In reply to Re: Fracking » Beckett, posted by sigismund on February 17, 2012, at 1:41:56

Seems his company was bought up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausra_(company)

I am woefully ignorant of solar power in this country, even though I live in California.

What was that solar company scandal Obama was involved in early in his tenure? I felt he was headed in the right direction, then....

 

Continuing to live » sigismund

Posted by Beckett on February 25, 2012, at 10:36:26

In reply to Re: Fracking » Beckett, posted by sigismund on February 16, 2012, at 22:24:39

>We walked around the lake in the centre called Hoan Kiem which was decorated all round with big balloons and light shows and many people out, and naturally I thought of what it must have felt like when Nixon bombed it that Christmas. (Was it to facilitate the negotiations in Paris?) And the 2M dead.

How do you explain the ways in which the Vietnamese have been able to continue and regenerate, even to forgive the US (?) for these harms? I have always wondered. There seems an absence of bitterness. Can this be true?

 

Re: Continuing to live

Posted by sigismund on February 25, 2012, at 13:51:21

In reply to Continuing to live » sigismund, posted by Beckett on February 25, 2012, at 10:36:26

Well of course I have wondered about this too and spoken to many Vietnamese about it. They are a chatty lot. I could easily find someone to talk to for an hour.

They will routinely say stuff like this.....

We were proud to fight the French and the Americans and beat them, but we are not proud to suffer from this corruption.

Of course they remember the support given to them from the Chinese, the Russians and the antiwar movement. This means they don't mind us too much and are not particularly mindful of the crimes of communism. Their brand of communism was less bad than some others, AFAIK.

After they had put an end to the Khmer Rouge, we still supported the KR at the UN.

 

Re: Continuing to live

Posted by sigismund on February 25, 2012, at 15:32:18

In reply to Re: Continuing to live, posted by sigismund on February 25, 2012, at 13:51:21

There is a famous quote of Ho's, about what I am not quite sure, but it goes....

Better to eat French sh*t for 10 years than Chinese sh*t for a thousand.

And Giap said, when asked how long he was prepared to fight the Americans, something like...as long it would take, if necessary a thousand years.

Years later an American general who had served in Vietnam offered him his watch. Giap refused to take it.

There are issues of pride involved. I do not understand why it is so difficult to understand this, if in fact that is the problem.

Howard Zinn said in a lecture something like......the thing about having our troops stationed in other countries is that sometimes it BOTHERS them.

Is it racism? Lack of empathy for sure. Not to speak of ignorance.

The odd thing is that even the people who prosecuted the war did not believe in it, at least not anywhere near the end.

But they were trapped because they could not turn back.

 

Re: Continuing to live

Posted by Beckett on March 9, 2012, at 9:12:09

In reply to Re: Continuing to live, posted by sigismund on February 25, 2012, at 15:32:18

Giap is against this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauxite_mining_in_Vietnam

I started reading about the history of Vietnam. It is long and unexpected http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiyue


>Howard Zinn said in a lecture something like......the thing about having our troops stationed in other countries is that sometimes it BOTHERS them.

It can be that simple:)

 

Re: Fracking

Posted by Beckett on March 9, 2012, at 15:46:30

In reply to Fracking, posted by Beckett on February 3, 2012, at 4:11:16

South America is mentioned as a area of oil and gas speculation, too. I really was not aware of the push for this power shift.

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/25/140784004/new-boom-reshapes-oil-world-rocks-north-dakota

From NPR of all sources. Fracking never sounded so appealing. So upbeat and down-home. I mean, look at the title. It rocks.

 

Re: Fracking

Posted by sigismund on March 9, 2012, at 17:47:58

In reply to Re: Fracking, posted by Beckett on March 9, 2012, at 15:46:30

It is very important to turn that stuff into cash before those renewables take off.
Did you read Hanson say that if the tar sands pipeline from Canada and the associated development goes ahead it is game over for climate change?
Must be some kind of communist.

Here there has developed a pattern.
Protesting farmers in meetings take off their hats and put them on the floor before the politicians.
The message is the same....drive over that, you bastards.

I heard someone on a program saying that Fox had unleashed the Id of the Republicans.
Not so easy to get it back in the box.
I enjoy Newt from a distance.
He fleshes out my understanding of hypocrisy.

 

Re: Fracking

Posted by sigismund on March 9, 2012, at 18:10:37

In reply to Re: Fracking, posted by Beckett on March 9, 2012, at 15:46:30

"The point is you can't force a technology that's not commercial. Rather than subsidize things that are not going to be competitive, we need to actually use that money to do R&D to create technologies the same way that the industries created these technologies to produce natural gas and it turned out so commercially successful."

Yeah, that's what I had in mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZsQqAQxh_Y

 

Re: Fracking

Posted by sigismund on March 9, 2012, at 18:16:56

In reply to Re: Fracking, posted by sigismund on March 9, 2012, at 18:10:37

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerry-cope/james-hansen-on-climate-t_b_932512.html

I listened to a presentation by Bill McKibbon at the SWF a few years back.

 

Re: Fracking

Posted by Beckett on March 10, 2012, at 4:44:20

In reply to Re: Fracking, posted by sigismund on March 9, 2012, at 17:47:58

Those are great links. Thank you.

The Senate defeated the Keystone XL pipeline yesterday.

>It is very important to turn that stuff into cash before those renewables take off.

This I had not equated.

The sensiblitiy of Hanson and his cohorts in their efforts to preserve the world for future generations who cannot speak for themselves places hypocrisy in deep relief when seen alongside those jamming political resources debating, endlessly debating contraceptive coverage, birth control acess, abortion rights, and the personhood of eggs, which is said by proponents to be, like Hanson is doing for future generations, a standing up for those not here to stand up for themselves. But in what sort of world will these eggs with rights grow?

It's been a real horse and pony show here. One suspects an ugly sleight of hand.

I found comic relief as did others from the baleful irony.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2012/03/birth-control-viagra-vasectomy-laws

 

Re: Fracking » Beckett

Posted by sigismund on March 11, 2012, at 20:21:07

In reply to Re: Fracking, posted by Beckett on March 10, 2012, at 4:44:20

Talking of hypocrisy, can you tell me how many illegal narcotic tablets Rush Limbaugh's housekeeper bought for him?

Housekeepers like that cannot be too easy to find. I want one.

 

Re: Freaking » sigismund

Posted by Beckett on March 12, 2012, at 16:14:46

In reply to Re: Fracking » Beckett, posted by sigismund on March 11, 2012, at 20:21:07

I typed Limbaugh narcotic housekeeper into google and the answer I got was more than 30,000 oxycontin tabs.

Here's a bit of fallout from his latest actions:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/166722/what-limbaugh-ad-boycott-could-mean-rush

Actually, joking about him takes muster on my part. His remarks about that Georgetown law student scared me when I heard the recording. They were so hateful and implicitly violent.

Then there is this, sigi. So many children and used to be children.

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/12/kathy_kelly_on_afghan_humanitarian_crisis#.T15mQsW-IV8.mailto



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