![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 98. Go back in thread:
Posted by Sigismund on March 26, 2010, at 20:32:44
In reply to Re: no one claims to have seen God, posted by SLS on March 26, 2010, at 10:46:36
Religions are like languages of the spirit.
The structure of the belief informs available choices, restrictions and consequences.
The history of Christianity in the Americas in particular was tragic for those who encountered it.
Christianity has given us great art, it's true.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 27, 2010, at 10:20:49
In reply to Re: no one claims to have seen God, posted by Buckeye Fan on March 26, 2010, at 10:31:02
> I totally agree with your comments on religion.
>
> God hates Religion too...He always has.
>
> I believe "religion" is the devil's counterfiet to what God really desires..."relationship".
> The Bible is clear that developing a personal relationship with our Creator is of unequivical importance to..and in fact one of the main reasons for Life itself:
>
> John 3:16
> For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life.
>
> NOTHING about religion in that verse.
>
> Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
>
> Only faith is required to earn God's unmerited favor
>
> When Jesus was here on earth in the flesh...He reaffirmed what God had said centuries earlier to Israel
>
> Mark 12:30 KJV
> And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
>
> Luke 10:27 KJV
> And he answering said , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
>
> Unlike all other teachers, leaders and wise men...Jesu Christ stands alone as one who conquered Death, Hell and the Grave.
> He literally rose from the dead...thus proving beyond any doubt that his miraculous Birth and Life for truly different from anyone else that had ever lived.
>
> Im glad I dont serve religion...I have a relationship with my Maker...and have seen Him faithful in my life for 50 years!
>
> BFBF,
You wrote,[...I have a relationship with my Maker...]. If that Maker, as the God that you give service and worship to, is the God that the Christian Bible refers to,
A. Does that Bible state that those that use mind-altering drugs will be cast into the Lake of Fire?
B. redacted by respondent
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 27, 2010, at 10:48:00
In reply to Re: no one claims to have seen God, posted by Buckeye Fan on March 26, 2010, at 10:31:02
> I totally agree with your comments on religion.
>
> God hates Religion too...He always has.
>
> I believe "religion" is the devil's counterfiet to what God really desires..."relationship".
> The Bible is clear that developing a personal relationship with our Creator is of unequivical importance to..and in fact one of the main reasons for Life itself:
>
> John 3:16
> For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life.
>
> NOTHING about religion in that verse.
>
> Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
>
> Only faith is required to earn God's unmerited favor
>
> When Jesus was here on earth in the flesh...He reaffirmed what God had said centuries earlier to Israel
>
> Mark 12:30 KJV
> And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
>
> Luke 10:27 KJV
> And he answering said , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
>
> Unlike all other teachers, leaders and wise men...Jesu Christ stands alone as one who conquered Death, Hell and the Grave.
> He literally rose from the dead...thus proving beyond any doubt that his miraculous Birth and Life for truly different from anyone else that had ever lived.
>
> Im glad I dont serve religion...I have a relationship with my Maker...and have seen Him faithful in my life for 50 years!
>
> BFBF,
You have cited a Bible verse regarding faith as part of being saved. Does that faith include abiding by the commandments of that God? If so, is there a description in that Bible that states that the Spirit of God lives in a person's body and that one is not to defile that body which is the temple of that Spirit? And then is there the prescription in that Bible that those that defile their body will be cast into the Lake of Fire?
Lou
Posted by SLS on March 27, 2010, at 20:21:02
In reply to Lou's request--dhephile, posted by Lou Pilder on March 27, 2010, at 10:48:00
> And then is there the prescription in that Bible that those that defile their body will be cast into the Lake of Fire?
> Lou
Wine is a mind-altering chemical that is synthesized through the acts of man. The daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father. Without that act, the lineage of man could not have continued. Each Shabbos, wine is served at dinner as ritual. The drinking of wine is also prescribed in the Haggadah during Passover. The bible asks of man that he ingest alcohol. There are even laws governing the fermentation process to make it kosher. God prescribes alcohol.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 9:37:42
In reply to Re: Lou's request--dhephile » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on March 27, 2010, at 20:21:02
> > And then is there the prescription in that Bible that those that defile their body will be cast into the Lake of Fire?
> > Lou
>
>
> Wine is a mind-altering chemical that is synthesized through the acts of man. The daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father. Without that act, the lineage of man could not have continued. Each Shabbos, wine is served at dinner as ritual. The drinking of wine is also prescribed in the Haggadah during Passover. The bible asks of man that he ingest alcohol. There are even laws governing the fermentation process to make it kosher. God prescribes alcohol.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Scott,
You wrote,[...the daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father...]
I am unsure as to where you have received such. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the oopportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Where is there a record in that Bibile that says that Noah had daughters?
B. Where does that Bibile state that any daughters used wine to alter the mind of their father?
C. other questions if you post answers to the above.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 10:05:29
In reply to Lou's reply-altrmyn? » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 9:37:42
> > > And then is there the prescription in that Bible that those that defile their body will be cast into the Lake of Fire?
> > > Lou
> >
> >
> > Wine is a mind-altering chemical that is synthesized through the acts of man. The daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father. Without that act, the lineage of man could not have continued. Each Shabbos, wine is served at dinner as ritual. The drinking of wine is also prescribed in the Haggadah during Passover. The bible asks of man that he ingest alcohol. There are even laws governing the fermentation process to make it kosher. God prescribes alcohol.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
> Scott,
> You wrote,[...the daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father...]
> I am unsure as to where you have received such. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the oopportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. Where is there a record in that Bibile that says that Noah had daughters?
> B. Where does that Bibile state that any daughters used wine to alter the mind of their father?
> C. other questions if you post answers to the above.
> Lou
>
Friends,
If you are considering posting here in this thrrad, I ask for you to consider the following.
There are many verses in that Bibile in discussion here that refer to {wine}. If the whole matter is taken into consideration, there are two major thoughts concerning {wine}.
One is that there are two types of wine, one being fermented, and the other the fruit of the vine, without alcohol.
The book with the account of Noah has a passage where Noah planted a vinyard after the flood subsided and became drunk. This could have been accidental because the flood changed the eath and I find no mention of drunkeness or fermentation in that Bible before the flood. Before the flood people lived for hundreds of years, the earth was different. There could have not been fermentation and people drank the fruit of the vine unfermented.
There are many Bibile verses that state to not harm the body. So if we look at the whole Bible in regards to {wine}, we could find verses that use wine in a symbolic manner. Then there is as to if the wine was fermented or not. Then there is good wine (in Matt). Could not good wine be fresh wine?
Lou
Posted by Sigismund on March 29, 2010, at 16:10:11
In reply to Lou's request tyo members-wynornhot, posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 10:05:29
Alcohol is impure to Muslims, whereas opium and hashish are not.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 16:21:20
In reply to Re: Lou's request tyo members-wynornhot, posted by Sigismund on March 29, 2010, at 16:10:11
> Alcohol is impure to Muslims, whereas opium and hashish are not.
Sigusmund,
Could you post a link to what could be an authority for that?
Lou
Posted by Sigismund on March 29, 2010, at 17:23:40
In reply to Lou's reply-veirvaz » Sigismund, posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 16:21:20
The Little Green Book by the Ayatollah Khomeini.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 21:16:59
In reply to Lou's request tyo members-wynornhot, posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 10:05:29
> > > > And then is there the prescription in that Bible that those that defile their body will be cast into the Lake of Fire?
> > > > Lou
> > >
> > >
> > > Wine is a mind-altering chemical that is synthesized through the acts of man. The daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father. Without that act, the lineage of man could not have continued. Each Shabbos, wine is served at dinner as ritual. The drinking of wine is also prescribed in the Haggadah during Passover. The bible asks of man that he ingest alcohol. There are even laws governing the fermentation process to make it kosher. God prescribes alcohol.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> > >
> > Scott,
> > You wrote,[...the daughters of Noah used wine to alter the mind of their father...]
> > I am unsure as to where you have received such. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the oopportunity to respond accordingly.
> > A. Where is there a record in that Bibile that says that Noah had daughters?
> > B. Where does that Bibile state that any daughters used wine to alter the mind of their father?
> > C. other questions if you post answers to the above.
> > Lou
> >
> Friends,
> If you are considering posting here in this thrrad, I ask for you to consider the following.
> There are many verses in that Bibile in discussion here that refer to {wine}. If the whole matter is taken into consideration, there are two major thoughts concerning {wine}.
> One is that there are two types of wine, one being fermented, and the other the fruit of the vine, without alcohol.
> The book with the account of Noah has a passage where Noah planted a vinyard after the flood subsided and became drunk. This could have been accidental because the flood changed the eath and I find no mention of drunkeness or fermentation in that Bible before the flood. Before the flood people lived for hundreds of years, the earth was different. There could have not been fermentation and people drank the fruit of the vine unfermented.
> There are many Bibile verses that state to not harm the body. So if we look at the whole Bible in regards to {wine}, we could find verses that use wine in a symbolic manner. Then there is as to if the wine was fermented or not. Then there is good wine (in Matt). Could not good wine be fresh wine?
> LouFriends,
I have been talking here about being at the Great Gulf. And that one is separated from one side to the other. And in That Day, the day that you may stand at the edge, you may wonder what separates you from going to the other side, for the separation can not be passed from one side to the other by human means.
This thread could bring out what that separation is, for there it has been revealed to me that there is a Great Deception to mankind. And as I stood at the edge of the Great Gulf, I saw a great fire at the bottom of the gulf. And the Rider was there and said, "Your (redacted by respondent) have separated you from your God."
Lou
Posted by Sigismund on March 29, 2010, at 22:05:47
In reply to Lou's request to members-yurpshinz, posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 21:16:59
>This thread could bring out what that separation is, for there it has been revealed to me that there is a Great Deception to mankind.
Only one?
Posted by Sigismund on March 29, 2010, at 22:08:35
In reply to Lou's request to members-yurpshinz, posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 21:16:59
>"Your (redacted by respondent) have separated you from your God."
What's been redacted by the respondent?
Your sins?
Intake of these wonderful pharmaceuticals we have been blessed with?
Posted by Sigismund on March 29, 2010, at 22:10:44
In reply to Re: Lou's request to members-yurpshinz, posted by Sigismund on March 29, 2010, at 22:08:35
>(redacted by respondent)
How about 'membership of this species'.
Posted by SLS on March 31, 2010, at 5:39:53
In reply to Lou's reply-altrmyn? » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on March 29, 2010, at 9:37:42
> A. Where is there a record in that Bibile that says that Noah had daughters?
You are quite right. My mistake. I confused Noah with another biblical personage.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 31, 2010, at 19:12:14
In reply to Re: Lou's request to members-yurpshinz, posted by Sigismund on March 29, 2010, at 22:10:44
> >(redacted by respondent)
>
> How about 'membership of this species'.Sigusmund,
In what you wrote above, there is an important aspect to it. You see, your statement is all-inclusive, for all of us are members of the same species as you have indicated.
That brings into considertion as to if all are separated from the God here in question or not. If so, then to passover the Great Gulf could have some way that is available to all that want to do so. The questions then could become, "What is the Way?" "Is it possible for man by himself to find the Way?" "Will taking (redacted by respondent) be the Way?"
My friends, as I stood at the edge of the Great Gulf, the Rider was there and I asked what I could do to passover the Great Gulf. And He said to me, "Seek first the Kingdom of God and His rightiousness, and then the Way, the Truth, and the Life will be revealed to you."
Lou
Posted by Sigismund on March 31, 2010, at 20:22:00
In reply to Lou's reply-wheyptewthliegph » Sigismund, posted by Lou Pilder on March 31, 2010, at 19:12:14
>My friends, as I stood at the edge of the Great Gulf, the Rider was there and I asked what I could do to passover the Great Gulf. And He said to me, "Seek first the Kingdom of God and His rightiousness, and then the Way, the Truth, and the Life will be revealed to you."
Great to be able to get some directions.
See what you think of this.....
Posted by Buckeye Fan on April 2, 2010, at 11:43:33
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-wheyptewthliegph » Lou Pilder, posted by Sigismund on March 31, 2010, at 20:22:00
It never ceases to amaze me at how the discussion of Jesus Christ, God's Word the Holy Bible, and The Holy Spirit...will always be taken off topic to all kinds of other ideas.
Not speaking just of this thread, which I realize was not limited to discussion of the above mentioned truths....but I hope that in the spirit of celebrating Christ's victory over death , hell and the grave with Easter this weekend...we can see Him as the one person to have ever performed the documented miracles He did ( raising the dead, healing the blind, deaf and lame...calming the weather with His commands) ....and then rise from the grave on the third day.He truley proved He was The Son Of God...and provided The Way for our eternal salvation, and forgivness of our sins.
BF
Posted by Buckeye Fan on April 2, 2010, at 11:50:07
In reply to Lou's request-nohoudder » Buckeye Fan, posted by Lou Pilder on March 27, 2010, at 10:20:49
Hi Lou...you asked...
BF,
You wrote,[...I have a relationship with my Maker...]. If that Maker, as the God that you give service and worship to, is the God that the Christian Bible refers to,
A. Does that Bible state that those that use mind-altering drugs will be cast into the Lake of Fire?
B. redacted by respondent
Lou
The answer is no.The ONLY reason given in God's Word that has or will ever cause someone to miss out on God's forgivness and Eternal life....is to reject the gift of His Son Jesus as Lord and Savior.
This matter is so personal, no one can ever make that determination on this side of eternityabout another human being.
None of us have the ability..nor the Biblical mandate to make such a judgement.We can only lay claim to the truth of God's Word
and the reality of the Holy Spirit coming to live in us as a result of our salvation.God is love...and will receive ALL who come to Him in faith.
BF
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 2, 2010, at 16:44:23
In reply to Re: Lou's request-nohoudder, posted by Buckeye Fan on April 2, 2010, at 11:50:07
> Hi Lou...you asked...
>
> BF,
> You wrote,[...I have a relationship with my Maker...]. If that Maker, as the God that you give service and worship to, is the God that the Christian Bible refers to,
> A. Does that Bible state that those that use mind-altering drugs will be cast into the Lake of Fire?
> B. redacted by respondent
> Lou
>
>
> The answer is no.
>
> The ONLY reason given in God's Word that has or will ever cause someone to miss out on God's forgivness and Eternal life....is to reject the gift of His Son Jesus as Lord and Savior.
>
> This matter is so personal, no one can ever make that determination on this side of eternityabout another human being.
> None of us have the ability..nor the Biblical mandate to make such a judgement.
>
> We can only lay claim to the truth of God's Word
> and the reality of the Holy Spirit coming to live in us as a result of our salvation.
>
> God is love...and will receive ALL who come to Him in faith.
>
> BF
>
> Bf,
You wrote,[...no.. (does the bible in question state that those that use mind-altering drugs will be cast into the Lake of Fire).
I am unsure as to how you determined your answer. If you could post answers to the following, then I couuld have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A.Did you use the entire Bibile including Rev 21:8 as part of your answer that one will not be cast into the Lake of Fire if they use mind-altering drugs?
B. If so, what in that verse, if anything, leads you to state the answer as {no}?
C. something else.
Lou
Posted by SLS on April 2, 2010, at 17:32:18
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-altrmyn? » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on March 31, 2010, at 5:39:53
Lou.
> > A. Where is there a record in that Bibile that says that Noah had daughters?
> You are quite right. My mistake. I confused Noah with another biblical personage.
Despite this error, I am still wondering how one is to reconcile your report of a proscription of the use of mind altering substances and the biblical ritualized drinking of wine, a well known mind altering substance. Scholars argue whether the "yayin" of the bible even means fermented wine. I look forward to your sharing your thoughts on this matter. I don't yet know of a proscription in the bible of the use of medicines to treat painful and debilitating mental illnesses. I imagine this has been an issue for talmudic discussion. I haven't looked into it, though.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 2, 2010, at 18:02:16
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-altrmyn?, posted by SLS on April 2, 2010, at 17:32:18
> Lou.
>
> > > A. Where is there a record in that Bibile that says that Noah had daughters?
>
> > You are quite right. My mistake. I confused Noah with another biblical personage.
>
> Despite this error, I am still wondering how one is to reconcile your report of a proscription of the use of mind altering substances and the biblical ritualized drinking of wine, a well known mind altering substance. Scholars argue whether the "yayin" of the bible even means fermented wine. I look forward to your sharing your thoughts on this matter. I don't yet know of a proscription in the bible of the use of medicines to treat painful and debilitating mental illnesses. I imagine this has been an issue for talmudic discussion. I haven't looked into it, though.
>
>
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote,[...I am..wondering...your thoughts...use ..for mental illness...].
The historical record shows for thousands of yearrs there were people that wanted to give people chemicals to treat evrything. They were called medicine men, witch doctors, etc.
The bible here teaches many things about chemicals that have mind-altering properties as to if or if not one is to go to those that supply them to others or to use them. Alcohol is a powerful chemical and addictive and harmful to the body and mind.
If you could post here a bible verse that you think means that that God wants people to drink alcohol, then I could respond to that.
Lou
Posted by SLS on April 3, 2010, at 8:00:39
In reply to Lou's reply-benhotdec » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on April 2, 2010, at 18:02:16
> If you could post here a bible verse that you think means that that God wants people to drink alcohol, then I could respond to that.
I cannot. You make a good point here. Apparently, yayin (wine) comes to mean the juice of the grape, both fermented and unfermented. You are right in that the bible makes several references to God's discouragement of intoxication by yayin. I find it interesting that fermented yayin has been used in religious rituals for so many centuries. Is it that biblical scholars have overlooked something important, or have they studied the bible closely enough to conclude that fermented yayin is allowed? I am baffled that there can be so much debate on this issue if the language of the bible were so clear. God permits the drinking of yayin. However, it could be that it is only of the unfermented type.
Deuteronomy 14:23
"And before the LORD your God, in the place which he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil"
- Scott
Posted by Buckeye Fan on April 3, 2010, at 8:29:08
In reply to Lou's reply-wolbib, posted by Lou Pilder on April 2, 2010, at 16:44:23
I assume The subject and translation of the word sorcery, is what you are talking about Lou.
I have studied, and had this discussion many times over the years.The practice os witchcraft and sorcery is often accompanied by the administration of mind-altering drugs ( potions)...to place the person in a more suggestable state of mind.
This in no way incinuates that advances in medical care....including chemicals...somehow makes someone a practitioner of sorcery.
Centuries ago....people died from a cold.
I for one am glad that God has allowed mankind to discover ways of helping facilitate the healing of broken bones, diseases, illness, viruses, reading glasses, etc...
The word sorcery is used about 6 times in the Bible.
It is connected with witchcraft...including trying to cast spells, talking to the dead, invoking evil spirits, and spiritually blinding the heart of spirit of another.The practice of medicine, ( though vastly corrupted today) is an advance in living that I am glad we have today.
In the perfect enviroment of the Garden of Eden...man was made to live in good health naturally.
after the fall of man and sin entered the world..a host of consequences was set into motion.Including health problems.
Now thousands of years later....our gene pool is so changed, watered down and corrupted...that medicines once not needed are now life saving.
Not God's first choice....ill health is another result of Sin...We can increase our chances of good health through proper diet, exercise and staying away from toxins to the human system...but evwn at our best, there is now a genetic tie in to inherited health conditions that we are born with.
Thank God for aspirin....
Posted by SLS on April 3, 2010, at 11:02:06
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-wolbib, posted by Buckeye Fan on April 3, 2010, at 8:29:08
> Thank God for aspirin....
...and for psychiatric medicines. When the chosen medicine is a good match for the ailing individual, the mind is not altered in the direction of an unnatural state of being, but, rather, is moved away from the unhealthy influence of aberrant brain function by facilitating its normalization.
- Scott
Posted by Lou PIlder on April 3, 2010, at 13:32:27
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-wolbib, posted by SLS on April 3, 2010, at 11:02:06
> > Thank God for aspirin....
>
> ...and for psychiatric medicines. When the chosen medicine is a good match for the ailing individual, the mind is not altered in the direction of an unnatural state of being, but, rather, is moved away from the unhealthy influence of aberrant brain function by facilitating its normalization.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote,[...the mind is not altered in the direction of an unatural state (if it is a good match)... to normalization...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post an answer to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
There is a warning mandated by the FDA to many chemicals called psychiatric drugs that states that one's mind could be changed to think of killing themselves.
If the persons taking one of those drugs were not thinking of killing themselves before taking the drug, then I think that the suicide ideation that could be induced by the drug is an altered state of that person's mind.
My questions are; (A). how could a chosen drug be determined to be or not to be a good match before it is chosen if the drug chosen has the potential to cause one to think of killing themselves?
Other questins to follow...
Lou
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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