![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 40 to 64 of 64. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2008, at 7:53:53
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-ovrcom-stage 5 » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on March 22, 2008, at 17:27:54
> So Lou... I'm seeing that God seems to choose or "elect" some, a small group, through whom He seems to want to bless ALL... is that what you've come to believe as well...?
>
> I see that He chose Abram to become Abraham, and told him that "through you all nations [all people] will be blessed."
>
> I see that many are called, but few are chosen... the Jews were chosen to be a blessing to all people... and then others were grafted in, in order for the fulness of Gentiles to make the Jews jealous and bring them back to God... and then the Jews, being the overcomers (along with the grafted-in ones) will be that blessing to all nations, bringing that Light to all, who have all BEEN reconciled to God, but are still blind to that reality... and THAT is the good news, which has unfortunately been skewed by those who cannot receive a free gift, but somehow believe (or desire) that they should earn it, which they already have.
>
> What's confusing to me is the timeline of everything... and what part of what's in the Revelation of John is for what has already passed, what part is a metaphor for what is continually going on (spiritually), and what is what is yet to happen...
>
> Can you speak to that Lou, without getting off track in what you're sharing here -- does that tie in at all, or would you rather come back to that (my qusetions) later?
>
> Shalom, DenaDena,
You wrote,[...and told him...many are called...that Light...]
It has been revealed to me that this time here is to some the darkest hour of their lives and that there is a sign here to those reading this. It has been revealed to me that when this sign can be seen, that there could be a new day with new light that could lead some to The Kingdom of God, The Paradise of God, The Promised Land.
It has been revaled to me now that The Sun of Rightiousness is arising here with healing in His wings, for the sign is here, the sign that the God that i give worship and service to has revaled to me would be That Sign that would be given to those that the dawn is here, there could be a new day and that the darkness could be dispelled.
It has been revealed to me that That Sign is the Sign of Jonah,asJonah was in the belly of the Great Fish,thatwouldbe The Sign as for as Jonah was in the Heart of the Great Fish, we would be in the Heart of the Earth. The Heart of the Earth is the heart of the carnal existance, for we are earth, formed from the dust of the ground. And as ouearthly mind is in the profound state of death, the carnal mind, then it has been revaeled to me that this is the Sign of Jonah to one that is in their darkest hour, the Heart of the Earth as being trapped like Jonah and fearing hopelesness and fear.
It has been revealed to me that if one is in this state that they are in The Heart of the Earth and could think that their God has forsaken them. it has been revaled to me that in this state one is being {called} by their God to be brought out of the darkness and into a marvelous light and as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, that is the sign to us that when we are in The Heart of the Earth for three days and three nights, the sign of Jonah, to wait on the Lord.
Lou
Posted by Dena on March 25, 2008, at 16:50:48
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-sgnvjnah » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 25, 2008, at 7:53:53
Yes, I know how it feels to be in darkness, and to believe, due to my perception, that God has forsaken me... when I choose my own independence from Him, that choice blinds me to Him, it seems...
It FEELS as though He has then forsaken me, but I've come to believe that He never leaves me, nor forsakes me, not even when I turn from Him ... it's just that I then blind myself to Him.
I see that when the Messiah was suffering, He cried out (quoting David), "My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me?" Some theologians have told me that this means God turned away from Him, and separated Himself from the Messiah, because at that moment, as He was being the sacrifice, He took on the sins of the world, and became sin, and God cannot abide sin, and so abandoned Him...
But, I believe that when the Messiah took on the world's sins, and became sin, God WAS STILL WITH HIM ... it's just that the Messiah, in that state, could not perceive the Father with Him. However, they are One, and cannot separate, and God does not abandon us in our sins ...
... also, I see that God was IN The Messiah, reconciling the world to Himself. At that moment, that moment of reconciliation, God was IN Him, and not separated...
It's amazing to me that my perceptions can be mistaken, and yet they are. That's when I must trust, that He is there, and is using EVEN the darkness for His purposes, and for my good.
(I hope this tied in, Lou, and didn't distract.)
Shalom, Dena
"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."
"We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 27, 2008, at 11:24:30
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-sgnvjnah » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on March 25, 2008, at 17:50:48
> Yes, I know how it feels to be in darkness, and to believe, due to my perception, that God has forsaken me... when I choose my own independence from Him, that choice blinds me to Him, it seems...
>
> It FEELS as though He has then forsaken me, but I've come to believe that He never leaves me, nor forsakes me, not even when I turn from Him ... it's just that I then blind myself to Him.
>
> I see that when the Messiah was suffering, He cried out (quoting David), "My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me?" Some theologians have told me that this means God turned away from Him, and separated Himself from the Messiah, because at that moment, as He was being the sacrifice, He took on the sins of the world, and became sin, and God cannot abide sin, and so abandoned Him...
>
> But, I believe that when the Messiah took on the world's sins, and became sin, God WAS STILL WITH HIM ... it's just that the Messiah, in that state, could not perceive the Father with Him. However, they are One, and cannot separate, and God does not abandon us in our sins ...
>
> ... also, I see that God was IN The Messiah, reconciling the world to Himself. At that moment, that moment of reconciliation, God was IN Him, and not separated...
>
> It's amazing to me that my perceptions can be mistaken, and yet they are. That's when I must trust, that He is there, and is using EVEN the darkness for His purposes, and for my good.
>
> (I hope this tied in, Lou, and didn't distract.)
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."
>
> "We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West
>Dena,
You wrote,[...to be in darkness...choose my own independence...FEELS...to believe...perceptions can be mistaken...trust...using EVEN the darkness...]
It has been revealed to me that when one experiances The Sign of Jonah, it is a calling and if one is in the darkness, feeling forsaken, that they could then know that there is hope and that the Sun of Rightiousness is arrising with healing in His wings. And it has been revealed to me that many are called,and that many in this manner, and that if one recognizes that they are in the Valley of the Shadow of Death, that they can be delivered from the darkness.
It has been revealed to me that one could spend three days and three nights in this darkness and if one knows of this that they can choose to endure like Jonah, who was called, and be chosen.
Lou
Posted by moonlightsonata2 on March 27, 2008, at 20:21:26
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-mnyrcldfwchosn » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 27, 2008, at 11:24:30
Dear Lou,
You always say "it has been revealed to me that...." What do you mean by this? Who has revealed it to you? How have you come to all these realizations? What should I do if I want things revealed to me, too?
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 28, 2008, at 20:45:44
In reply to Re: request for clarification from Lou, posted by moonlightsonata2 on March 27, 2008, at 20:21:26
> Dear Lou,
> You always say "it has been revealed to me that...." What do you mean by this? Who has revealed it to you? How have you come to all these realizations? What should I do if I want things revealed to me, too?moonlightsonata2,
You asked about what receiving revelation entails.
This is something that IMO could change your life today. You see, I have been writing about two minds, the mind of the flesh, or carnal mind, and the mind of the spirit.
I have also been writing about the thinking of the two minds and that there is a great gulf separating the two minds that one can cross over. This crossing over could be looked at as {comming over} to the spiritual mind and {comming over} could also be looked at as {overcomming}.
It has been revealed to me that the crossing over from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind can be done in many ways and that there are three things to overcome that could allow one to cross over from the carnal to the spiritual mind. These three things are the world, the flesh and the devil.
It has been revealed to me that to be carnally minded is death and to be spiritually minded is life and peace, for the thinking in the two minds are different.
It has been revealed to me that there is a Way that could have one be bridged to come over to the spiritual mind to Life in the spirit. It has been revealed to me that one can find the Way and the Life.
I have been writing about the beast that came out of the sea, which has been revealed to me to be the carnal mind, death. I believe that when one sees the beast come out of the sea that that is one way that could lead one to the Great Gulf and want to cross over to the spiritual mind.
It has been revealed to me that we have a seed of the spirit in us and that when it is watered by the rain, it will regenerate and florish the spiritual mind within us. This rain could be seen differently, like a gentle rain falling softly in the meadow. This water, which is the Water of Life is a spiritual water. It has been revealed to me that this water is The Word of God....more
Lou
Posted by Dena on April 7, 2008, at 2:17:26
In reply to Lou's reply to moonlightsonata2-lvrscnchrtough » moonlightsonata2, posted by Lou Pilder on March 28, 2008, at 20:45:44
Wow, sorry for the delay in the conversation here!
Lou, you said there's more -- what's the next part of what was revealed to you?
Shalom, Dena
"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the unquestioned answers."
"We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 8, 2008, at 7:25:41
In reply to Lou's reply to moonlightsonata2-lvrscnchrtough » moonlightsonata2, posted by Lou Pilder on March 28, 2008, at 20:45:44
> > Dear Lou,
> > You always say "it has been revealed to me that...." What do you mean by this? Who has revealed it to you? How have you come to all these realizations? What should I do if I want things revealed to me, too?
>
> moonlightsonata2,
> You asked about what receiving revelation entails.
> This is something that IMO could change your life today. You see, I have been writing about two minds, the mind of the flesh, or carnal mind, and the mind of the spirit.
> I have also been writing about the thinking of the two minds and that there is a great gulf separating the two minds that one can cross over. This crossing over could be looked at as {comming over} to the spiritual mind and {comming over} could also be looked at as {overcomming}.
> It has been revealed to me that the crossing over from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind can be done in many ways and that there are three things to overcome that could allow one to cross over from the carnal to the spiritual mind. These three things are the world, the flesh and the devil.
> It has been revealed to me that to be carnally minded is death and to be spiritually minded is life and peace, for the thinking in the two minds are different.
> It has been revealed to me that there is a Way that could have one be bridged to come over to the spiritual mind to Life in the spirit. It has been revealed to me that one can find the Way and the Life.
> I have been writing about the beast that came out of the sea, which has been revealed to me to be the carnal mind, death. I believe that when one sees the beast come out of the sea that that is one way that could lead one to the Great Gulf and want to cross over to the spiritual mind.
> It has been revealed to me that we have a seed of the spirit in us and that when it is watered by the rain, it will regenerate and florish the spiritual mind within us. This rain could be seen differently, like a gentle rain falling softly in the meadow. This water, which is the Water of Life is a spiritual water. It has been revealed to me that this water is The Word of God....more
> Lou
>mls2 and Dena,
The topic that I think is important here is mls2's question,[...what should I do...?]
Friends, if you are reading this , then I think that there could be the most dramatic change in your life to happen soon. I say soon because it has been revealed to me that when one wants to know the answer to that question that they are in the latter days that could lead to the Kingdom of God. I believe that when one asks that question that they are standing on one side of the Great Gulf, the gulf between that separates the carnal mind from the spiritual mind and that one wants to cross over to the spiritual kingdom which has been revealed to me to be Light and peace, from the carnal mind, which has been revealed to me to be darkness and death.
In order to have a Way to bridge the Great Gulf to come over to the Kingdom of God, it has been revealed to me that we can not do so on our own, for the great gulf is so wide and so deep, with sheer cliffs, that the human ability is insufficient to jump or climb over to the Kingdom of God.
There is a book that the Jews use in their scriptures that is called Genesis that tells of man's creation and in it there writes what I have experianced. In the 2end chapter, the 25th verse we read,[...And they were both naked...and were not ashemaed...].
That was before they ate of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil. They were not ashamed!
Then they ate of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil and we read in chapter 3 the 7th verse,[...And the eyes of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves aprons...]
Then in chapter 3 verse 21 we read that in this time of the beginning of the foundation of the world, God made coats of skins and clothed them. It has been revealed to me that God slayed an animal for that animal's skin to cover the nakedness of mankind, for the apron of fig leaves that man makes on his own could deteriorate.
And it has been revealed to me that when God slew the animal for the skin to cover their nakedness, then blood was shed of that animal.
It has been revealed to me that in our latter days when we are standing on the edge of the Great Gulf that we are naked. more...
Lou
Posted by Dena on April 8, 2008, at 19:14:57
In reply to Lou's reply to mls2 and Dena-crzovr, posted by Lou Pilder on April 8, 2008, at 7:25:41
This is good, Lou... I can see echos of the story of rescue from the very beginning...
Keep going -- I'd like to see how it ties in to the question, "What should I do?"
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 8, 2008, at 20:12:53
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to mls2 and Dena-crzovr » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on April 8, 2008, at 19:14:57
> This is good, Lou... I can see echos of the story of rescue from the very beginning...
>
> Keep going -- I'd like to see how it ties in to the question, "What should I do?"
>
> Shalom, DenaDena,
You wrote,[..."what should I do?"...]
It has been revealed to me that the natural man, the carnal man, the flesh man, has clothed himself and that his clothes are temporary devices to hide his nakedness. It has been revealed to me that when one stands on the edge of the Great Gulf, that person , like Adam and Eve, know that they are naked and know that their fig leaves withered and that their nakedness is shown, they are uncovered in the sight of God.
It has been revealed to me that when I am writing about man being clothed or naked, that I am writing about the nature of man, either the carnal minded man or the spiritual minded man, so that those that are naked in the spiritual nature, are not ashamed, for Adam and Eve were not ashamed untill they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and evil, that the serpent said that they would not die if they ate of it.
When Adam and Eve knew that they were naked after eating of the tree of the knoelege of good and evil, they wanted to cover themselves, for they knew that they were naked.
It has been revealed to me that God will give a covering that when one is covered by it , that they will not be ashamed, that it will be spiritual clothing from heaven when we Passover the Great Gulf.
When I stood at the edge of the Great Gulf I knew that there was someone that lived that could help me overcome to Passover the Great Gulf and stand in my latter day upon the earth and that I would see God for myself. more...
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 16, 2008, at 20:59:07
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-blsdrthepurnhart » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on April 8, 2008, at 20:12:53
> > This is good, Lou... I can see echos of the story of rescue from the very beginning...
> >
> > Keep going -- I'd like to see how it ties in to the question, "What should I do?"
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
>
> Dena,
> You wrote,[..."what should I do?"...]
> It has been revealed to me that the natural man, the carnal man, the flesh man, has clothed himself and that his clothes are temporary devices to hide his nakedness. It has been revealed to me that when one stands on the edge of the Great Gulf, that person , like Adam and Eve, know that they are naked and know that their fig leaves withered and that their nakedness is shown, they are uncovered in the sight of God.
> It has been revealed to me that when I am writing about man being clothed or naked, that I am writing about the nature of man, either the carnal minded man or the spiritual minded man, so that those that are naked in the spiritual nature, are not ashamed, for Adam and Eve were not ashamed untill they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and evil, that the serpent said that they would not die if they ate of it.
> When Adam and Eve knew that they were naked after eating of the tree of the knoelege of good and evil, they wanted to cover themselves, for they knew that they were naked.
> It has been revealed to me that God will give a covering that when one is covered by it , that they will not be ashamed, that it will be spiritual clothing from heaven when we Passover the Great Gulf.
> When I stood at the edge of the Great Gulf I knew that there was someone that lived that could help me overcome to Passover the Great Gulf and stand in my latter day upon the earth and that I would see God for myself. more...
> LouDena,
You asked as to what to do.
When I was standing on the edge of the Great Gulf, I wrote some previously concerning that, but not everything.
When I was there, I saw the other side way far away. But then I felt the the earth move under my feet and rocks were falling down the cliffs and the walls of the cliffs rumbled. Then the walls of the cliff moved toward each other, slowly and huge rocks tumbled down. I was on top of a mountain and the cliff walls kept moving toward each other untill a rope bridge was thrown from the other side and landed at my feet.
I walked over to the other side and there were a great multitude of baby sheep, lambs, and a Rider on a White Horse. I asked the Rider how this happened and He said to me, "Your small amount of faith has moved mountains."
Lou
Posted by Dena on April 20, 2008, at 1:05:22
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-tpety, posted by Lou Pilder on April 16, 2008, at 20:59:07
Sorry for the delay, Lou - I was off on a wild and wonderful adventure in NYC...! ;)
So, what happened next? What was this about?
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 23, 2008, at 15:49:44
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-tpety, posted by Lou Pilder on April 16, 2008, at 20:59:07
> > > This is good, Lou... I can see echos of the story of rescue from the very beginning...
> > >
> > > Keep going -- I'd like to see how it ties in to the question, "What should I do?"
> > >
> > > Shalom, Dena
> >
> > Dena,
> > You wrote,[..."what should I do?"...]
> > It has been revealed to me that the natural man, the carnal man, the flesh man, has clothed himself and that his clothes are temporary devices to hide his nakedness. It has been revealed to me that when one stands on the edge of the Great Gulf, that person , like Adam and Eve, know that they are naked and know that their fig leaves withered and that their nakedness is shown, they are uncovered in the sight of God.
> > It has been revealed to me that when I am writing about man being clothed or naked, that I am writing about the nature of man, either the carnal minded man or the spiritual minded man, so that those that are naked in the spiritual nature, are not ashamed, for Adam and Eve were not ashamed untill they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and evil, that the serpent said that they would not die if they ate of it.
> > When Adam and Eve knew that they were naked after eating of the tree of the knoelege of good and evil, they wanted to cover themselves, for they knew that they were naked.
> > It has been revealed to me that God will give a covering that when one is covered by it , that they will not be ashamed, that it will be spiritual clothing from heaven when we Passover the Great Gulf.
> > When I stood at the edge of the Great Gulf I knew that there was someone that lived that could help me overcome to Passover the Great Gulf and stand in my latter day upon the earth and that I would see God for myself. more...
> > Lou
>
> Dena,
> You asked as to what to do.
> When I was standing on the edge of the Great Gulf, I wrote some previously concerning that, but not everything.
> When I was there, I saw the other side way far away. But then I felt the the earth move under my feet and rocks were falling down the cliffs and the walls of the cliffs rumbled. Then the walls of the cliff moved toward each other, slowly and huge rocks tumbled down. I was on top of a mountain and the cliff walls kept moving toward each other untill a rope bridge was thrown from the other side and landed at my feet.
> I walked over to the other side and there were a great multitude of baby sheep, lambs, and a Rider on a White Horse. I asked the Rider how this happened and He said to me, "Your small amount of faith has moved mountains."
> LouDena,
You wrote,[...what was this all about...?]
The scene at the Great Gulf was one that I had written some of what happened there but the scene was horrific and so when I wrot e of it at first, I did not write of all that happened there.
But now that you have asked, there were signs and wonders happening when the two sides of the cliffs moved toward each other, terribleness. And when the rope bridge was tossed to me by the Rider on the White Horse, I staked it to a tree with a screw driver that I had and the rope briidge was swaying wildly as the earth shook. At first I could not see any way that anyone could walk that bridge under the conditions. Then I saw a dead tree on the groud that looked like a long pole. I picked it up and it was tremendously heavy and I used it as a balancing pole like you may have seen those use in walking a high wire in a circus performance.
I took up that tree and was able to get about 2 feet from the other side and I lost control of the tree and balance and I tipped to fall into the Great Gulf. But then the Rider on the White Horse put out His Outstretched Arm and with His Might Hand brought me forth out of the relm of darkness and death into the kingdom of light and peace.
Lou
Posted by Dena on April 23, 2008, at 19:12:51
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-delvr, posted by Lou Pilder on April 23, 2008, at 15:49:44
Lots of symbolic meaning there, Lou...
What does it mean to you...? Can you break down the components for us?
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2008, at 20:21:28
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-delvr » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on April 23, 2008, at 19:12:51
> Lots of symbolic meaning there, Lou...
>
> What does it mean to you...? Can you break down the components for us?
>
> Shalom, DenaDena,
Thia thread is concerning another member's question as to how things could be revealed to them. The symbols can be broken down as you have asked for me to do.
What you have been reading may be something that you may know of. What I have been writing about here is a deliverance from bondage. It is deliverance from bondage of the carnal mind. The symbols here are those that many know, but they are different from what they may know of.
You see, it has been revealed to me that the God that the Jews believe in, which is the same God that I believe in, reveals Himself in a way that the scriptures that the Jews use depicts. It has been revealed to me that He delivers all men from the bondage of death. I have been writing about that the carnal mind is darkness and death and that the spiritual mind is light and peace and life.
The book called Exodus describes a miraculous deliverance from the bondage of slavery. I believe that the book is accurate and that all that is written in that book actually happened.
When I was on the mountaintop by the Great Gulf, the sea did not part so that I could walk to the promised land, the sides of the two mountains came together so that I could walk to the Kingdom of God. What a miracle.
You may be aquainted with the book called Deuteronomy. In capter 26 in verse 8 it reads,[...And the Lord brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand and with an outstretched arm...]. I believe that that God will bring all out of bondage with his outstretched arm and mighty hand in some miraculous way, if one has just a tiny amount of faith, for that faith could move mountains.
But the member here wants to know how they can have things revealed to them. How can one have faith?
My friends, one can have faith by hearing The Word of God, and I have been writing here about the Word of God and people that read this {hear} the Word of God. And sometime from now one may hear so that they have just a tiny amount of faith and then they can move their mountains, they can be free from their bondage, they can be in the promised land.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 1, 2008, at 18:39:59
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-prmlnd » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2008, at 20:21:28
> > Lots of symbolic meaning there, Lou...
> >
> > What does it mean to you...? Can you break down the components for us?
> >
> > Shalom, Dena
>
> Dena,
> Thia thread is concerning another member's question as to how things could be revealed to them. The symbols can be broken down as you have asked for me to do.
> What you have been reading may be something that you may know of. What I have been writing about here is a deliverance from bondage. It is deliverance from bondage of the carnal mind. The symbols here are those that many know, but they are different from what they may know of.
> You see, it has been revealed to me that the God that the Jews believe in, which is the same God that I believe in, reveals Himself in a way that the scriptures that the Jews use depicts. It has been revealed to me that He delivers all men from the bondage of death. I have been writing about that the carnal mind is darkness and death and that the spiritual mind is light and peace and life.
> The book called Exodus describes a miraculous deliverance from the bondage of slavery. I believe that the book is accurate and that all that is written in that book actually happened.
> When I was on the mountaintop by the Great Gulf, the sea did not part so that I could walk to the promised land, the sides of the two mountains came together so that I could walk to the Kingdom of God. What a miracle.
> You may be aquainted with the book called Deuteronomy. In capter 26 in verse 8 it reads,[...And the Lord brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand and with an outstretched arm...]. I believe that that God will bring all out of bondage with his outstretched arm and mighty hand in some miraculous way, if one has just a tiny amount of faith, for that faith could move mountains.
> But the member here wants to know how they can have things revealed to them. How can one have faith?
> My friends, one can have faith by hearing The Word of God, and I have been writing here about the Word of God and people that read this {hear} the Word of God. And sometime from now one may hear so that they have just a tiny amount of faith and then they can move their mountains, they can be free from their bondage, they can be in the promised land.
> LouDena,
After I was grabbed by the Rider's outstretched arm and mighty hand, He lifted me up from the cliff's side where I was dangling. I said to Him, "You saved me from falling into the abyss. What are you doing here." Then the Rider said to me, "I have come to save that which was lost." I asked, "Why?" The Rider said to me, "What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astry, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? It is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one man should perish, for all men like sheep have gone astry. I am the good shepherd, I come to seek the lost sheep of the House of Israel and other sheep I have which are not of that fold, them also I will bring and they shall hear my voice. All that the Father has given me shall come to me; and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out. And this is the Father's will that sent me, that of all He has given Me, I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
Lou
Posted by Dena on May 1, 2008, at 22:14:47
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-, posted by Lou Pilder on May 1, 2008, at 18:39:59
Lou, I have to ask: Who is included in the total of "all that the Father has given me" [The Rider]?
Is it a select few, some, most, or all?
What does this paragraph, which you wrote, mean to you?
(though I recognize the verses from Scripture, the plain understanding of them goes contrary to that which I was traditionally taught ... I've come to believe that God's mercy is far more vast than what is traditionally taught...)
Shalom, Dena
"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
unquestioned answers.""We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West"Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
being up to something.""Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
"While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
swallow all that we taste."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 7, 2008, at 21:17:45
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena- » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on May 1, 2008, at 22:14:47
> Lou, I have to ask: Who is included in the total of "all that the Father has given me" [The Rider]?
>
> Is it a select few, some, most, or all?
>
> What does this paragraph, which you wrote, mean to you?
>
> (though I recognize the verses from Scripture, the plain understanding of them goes contrary to that which I was traditionally taught ... I've come to believe that God's mercy is far more vast than what is traditionally taught...)
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
> unquestioned answers."
>
> "We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
> learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West
>
> "Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
> being up to something."
>
> "Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
>
> "While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
> swallow all that we taste."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Dena,
You wrote,[...who is included...]
What I have been writing about here is about faith. It was faith that moved the mountains together. It was faith that I came from one side to the other. It was faith that saved me from falling into the abyss. And it has been revealed to me that faith comes by hearing the Word of God. And it has ben revealed to me that the Word of God is within you, so that one can hear the Word wherever they may be, whosoever they may be. And it has been revealed to me that all we like sheep have gone astray.
So to reply to your querry, I asked the Rider for the same answer, and He said to me, "My sheep hear my voice."
Lou
Posted by Dena on May 7, 2008, at 21:35:03
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-hrmivoc » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on May 7, 2008, at 21:17:45
Yes, His sheep hear His voice...
And yet, we hear Him speaking of the goats, who are separated from the sheep ... how does that fit in to your understanding?
Shalom, Dena
"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
unquestioned answers.""We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West"Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
being up to something.""Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
"While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
swallow all that we taste."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 8, 2008, at 10:57:57
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-hrmivoc » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on May 7, 2008, at 21:35:03
> Yes, His sheep hear His voice...
>
> And yet, we hear Him speaking of the goats, who are separated from the sheep ... how does that fit in to your understanding?
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
> unquestioned answers."
>
> "We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
> learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West
>
> "Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
> being up to something."
>
> "Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
>
> "While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
> swallow all that we taste."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Dena,
You wrote,[...goats, who are separated from the sheep...].
In the posts here I have written about the {outstretched arm} and {the mighty hand}. It has been revealed to me that the {mighty hand} and the {outstretched arm} are powerfull enough to reach out to the goats as well as the sheep. For I asked the Rider about that and He said to me, "God will pour out His spirit on all men so that the arm of the Lord is revealed, and His Spirit will draw all men to Myself."
Lou
Posted by Dena on May 9, 2008, at 1:14:46
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-tuhum? » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on May 8, 2008, at 10:57:57
That made my spirit sing, Lou...!
So, when I explain what I now believe to my traditional friends, they say, "yeah, but, He said the goats go away into eternal punishment, while the sheep go into eternal life. Eternal for one, has to mean eternal for the other."
I know how *I* explain that passage, but how do you, Lou?
Just wondering if we've been shown the same thing...
Shalom, Dena
"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
unquestioned answers.""We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West"Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
being up to something.""Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
"While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
swallow all that we taste."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2008, at 13:22:19
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-tuhum? » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on May 9, 2008, at 1:14:46
> That made my spirit sing, Lou...!
>
> So, when I explain what I now believe to my traditional friends, they say, "yeah, but, He said the goats go away into eternal punishment, while the sheep go into eternal life. Eternal for one, has to mean eternal for the other."
>
> I know how *I* explain that passage, but how do you, Lou?
>
> Just wondering if we've been shown the same thing...
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
> unquestioned answers."
>
> "We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
> learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West
>
> "Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
> being up to something."
>
> "Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
>
> "While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
> swallow all that we taste."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Dena,
You wrote,[...the goats go...the sheep go...][...How do you explain...?].
The passage in question has been revealed to me to be a parable. It has great siginificance and has been revealed to me as to what the parable means.
I could convey the meaning of the parable, from a Jewish perspective, elsewhere.
Lou
Posted by Dena on May 13, 2008, at 1:13:14
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-teighkelswair » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2008, at 13:22:19
Lou -
I'd honestly like to know your take on that parable -- and if that requires speaking from a Jewish viewpoint, that's fine with me... I've asked you to share, out of my own curiosity, as I want to understand a passage that's long perplexed me.
Please help me, and perhaps others, understand the meaning here, from a Jewish perspective.
Thanks!
Shalom, Dena
"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
unquestioned answers.""We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West"Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
being up to something.""Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
"While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
swallow all that we taste."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 13, 2008, at 17:37:59
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-teighkelswair » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on May 13, 2008, at 1:13:14
> Lou -
>
> I'd honestly like to know your take on that parable -- and if that requires speaking from a Jewish viewpoint, that's fine with me... I've asked you to share, out of my own curiosity, as I want to understand a passage that's long perplexed me.
>
> Please help me, and perhaps others, understand the meaning here, from a Jewish perspective.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
> unquestioned answers."
>
> "We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
> learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West
>
> "Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
> being up to something."
>
> "Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
>
> "While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
> swallow all that we taste."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Dena,
You wrote,[...speaking from a Jewish viewpoint is fine with me...please help to understand trhe meaning here, from a Jewish perspective...]
The passage is one that has the sheep and the goats that is contained in a passage that has the use of God's {right hand} and also His left hand. I have not written hee about God's right hand or left hand but I did initiate it in previous posts that one could do a search here to find by using {Lou, the right hand of God}.
The passage near the start writes,[...All the {nations} will be gathered before Him...]. This has been revealed to me to be those people that are not Jews. It has been revealed to me that this passage is not the same as the judgement passage in the book called The Revelation.
In that the {nations} will be gathered before Him, the passage then writes that He then separated them as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats. And it reads that He separates his sheep on His right hand and the goats on His left hand.
[...this paragraph has been redacted by respondent...]
The reason for the separation is given as a parable in relation to how the sheep people and the goat people treated His {brethren}. My friends, it has been revealed to me as to what people are His brethren and they are,[...this has been redacted by respondent...].
The parable concerns a particular aspect of particular people and prescribes punishment and rewards to the sheep people and the goat people in a spacific circumstance. It has been revealed to me that this is not speaking concerning the final judgment,and the punishment and reward are for a time period that has a starting and an ending. The Greek can be read as {age-lasting}. The time period of the {age} is not stated in the passage, but that time period has been revealed to me.
Lou
Posted by Dena on May 14, 2008, at 0:53:32
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena-milnum » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on May 13, 2008, at 17:37:59
Would that time period be the same as the millennium...? Just wondering -- I see the parable the same way you do. And I see the meaning of "eternal punishment" really being (in Greek), "age-abiding/enduring rehabilitation/correction/pruning" (it seems to originally be a gardening term, kolasis, not about punishment, which would be timoris).
For instance, here's how it reads in the NIV:
Matthew 25:31-46 (New International Version)
The Sheep and the Goats
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And here's how it reads in Young's Literal Translation:
Matthew 25:31-46 (Young's Literal Translation)
31`And whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with him, then he shall sit upon a throne of his glory;32and gathered together before him shall be all the nations, and he shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd doth separate the sheep from the goats,
33and he shall set the sheep indeed on his right hand, and the goats on the left.
34`Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
35for I did hunger, and ye gave me to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and ye received me;
36naked, and ye put around me; I was infirm, and ye looked after me; in prison I was, and ye came unto me.
37`Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, and we nourished? or thirsting, and we gave to drink?
38and when did we see thee a stranger, and we received? or naked, and we put around?
39and when did we see thee infirm, or in prison, and we came unto thee?
40`And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did [it].
41Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
42for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me not to drink;
43a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me.
44`Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, and we did not minister to thee?
45`Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of these, the least, ye did [it] not to me.
46And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What more do you want to say about this, Lou?
Shalom, Dena
"The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
unquestioned answers.""We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West"Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
being up to something.""Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
"While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
swallow all that we taste."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 20, 2008, at 4:23:53
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Dena-milnum » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on May 14, 2008, at 0:53:32
> Would that time period be the same as the millennium...? Just wondering -- I see the parable the same way you do. And I see the meaning of "eternal punishment" really being (in Greek), "age-abiding/enduring rehabilitation/correction/pruning" (it seems to originally be a gardening term, kolasis, not about punishment, which would be timoris).
>
> For instance, here's how it reads in the NIV:
>
> Matthew 25:31-46 (New International Version)
>
>
> The Sheep and the Goats
> 31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
> 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
>
> 37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
>
> 40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
>
> 41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
>
> 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
>
> 45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
>
> 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> And here's how it reads in Young's Literal Translation:
>
> Matthew 25:31-46 (Young's Literal Translation)
>
>
> 31`And whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with him, then he shall sit upon a throne of his glory;
>
> 32and gathered together before him shall be all the nations, and he shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd doth separate the sheep from the goats,
>
> 33and he shall set the sheep indeed on his right hand, and the goats on the left.
>
> 34`Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
>
> 35for I did hunger, and ye gave me to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and ye received me;
>
> 36naked, and ye put around me; I was infirm, and ye looked after me; in prison I was, and ye came unto me.
>
> 37`Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, and we nourished? or thirsting, and we gave to drink?
>
> 38and when did we see thee a stranger, and we received? or naked, and we put around?
>
> 39and when did we see thee infirm, or in prison, and we came unto thee?
>
> 40`And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did [it].
>
> 41Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
>
> 42for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me not to drink;
>
> 43a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me.
>
> 44`Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, and we did not minister to thee?
>
> 45`Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of these, the least, ye did [it] not to me.
>
> 46And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> What more do you want to say about this, Lou?
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
> "The unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as the
> unquestioned answers."
>
> "We turn to God for help when our foundations are shaking only to
> learn that it is God shaking them." - Charles West
>
> "Naked is having no clothes on. Nekkid is having no clothes on and
> being up to something."
>
> "Our truth, when it becomes the ONLY truth, ceases to be truth."
>
> "While we're not fearful of tasting new things, we don't necessarily
> swallow all that we taste."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Dena,
You wrote,[...what more do you want to say about this...?]
What I would want to say about the parable would come from a Jewish perspective. In particular, but not limited to that the parable writes about;
A. The Kingdom
B. The nations
C. The sheep
D. The goats
E. The brethren
F. A stranger not received
G. Eternal fire
H. the right hand of God
K. others not listed
What has been revealed to me is different from what is the popular meaning of the parable. You see, the parable was given as such for a reason and was spoken to Jews and others in the context of other parables that are related. The word {nation} is a biblical word that has its own meaning in the time period of when it was written apart from what the definition of the word is in this day. The Greek is {ethnos} and in the Hebrew one can email me for that if they like.
The kingdom that is mentioned in the parable, the translation that you cited,[...inherit the reign that has been prepared for you from the foundation of the world...], speaks to before that time that the parable was spoken as being prepared from the foundation of the world. It has been revealed to me that that kingdom can be read about in the book called Danial in the scriptures that te Jews use, in a passage in chapter 2 starting at versae 44;
[...the God of heaven shall set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed...]
I could explain this from a Jewish perspective here as,[this paragraph has been redacted by the respondent].
In the scriptures that the Jews use, in Psalm 139, we read starting in verse 7, and I like the King James here;
[Whither shall I go from the spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presesnce?
If I ascend up to heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there.
If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
And if I say, Surly the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.]
In that passage I could esxplain some of the parable's meaning that has been revealed to me from a Jewish perspective which is; [this paragraph has been redacted by the respondent].
You see, the parable is about[this paragraoh has been redacted by the respondent] and could be understood in light of other parables that [this paragraph has been redacted by the respondent].
Lou
This is the end of the thread.
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