Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 593667

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.


Asking for prayers again (still)

Posted by Spector on December 31, 2005, at 2:03:42

Hello. I have asked for prayers here a couple of times before. And I am asking again tonight.

I am at the very end of a long long rope. Frantic with despair and desperation. I know that I am not forsaken, that none of us ever are. I believe that God loves me, but .. . . what I continue to experience is so extreme that at times (many many times) it feels just as though some evil entity is experimenting with me the way a cruel child might experiment with -- torture -- a small animal. I KNOW that there is no such entity; I do know that. I just say that it can really feel as though there is. And, just like most people in extraordinary pain for a very long time, I cannot help but ask why, why, why, over and over. Why sooooo long? Why sooooo bad? Why, God, why can it not end now?

I still believe that there are no accidents, that our suffering does have purpose even though we often cannot see that purpose during the suffering. But . ... . that can be the hardest thing to remember. At times, impossible.

I know this might be redundant to anyone who remembers my other requests, but I would like to describe my story as briefly as possible. I am 38 now. Between the ages of 18 through 21 I suffered from episodes of manic depression. The mania was mostly hypomania; the depression were extremely severe with crippling anxiety. No drugs helped, but I would emerge from the depressions (4 of them) like clockwork after about 5 months. Then I went into a complete remission for the following 13-1/2 years. As many of you reading this will know, a remission like that with my history is statistically very rare.

During the latter part of those years I was finally able to realize some of my dreams. I met and married my beautiful husband. We moved to NY City together where I was able with his incredible support and enthusiasm to finally finally go to the art school I had wanted to go to for literally a dozen years. I studied there for four years and discovered that, yes, I really am a painter. I was able then to rent a studio near where we live in Brooklyn and paint every day all day. I was beginning to discover the infinite and mystical world of making paintings; I was beginning to make my own paintings. I had yearned for this my entire life. It was a dream come true.

Doctors have told me that most likely the remission would have continued indefinitely if the following had not happened. In May 2002 I went to a new psychiatrist. Not because I was experiencing any symptoms. Not even because I was seeking therapy. I went to her only to have a background person, as I'd always had, just in case. After meeting me, she felt I had mild symptoms of ADD. She suggested a medication that she said could be very helpful. I said, no, I don't think so; I've had terrible problems with medications in the past. She said, well you can just try it and see what happens. She said nothing about possible risk of mania or anything like that or I would have run for my life. Additionally, I had no idea that the drug she was suggesting was an amphetime (Adderall). I agreed to try it.

It took only one dose; I immediately went into the beginning of a hypomanic state which continued for 5 full months despite discontinuing the medication.

Then, in November 2002 I fell into the unspeakably severe and terror-filled depression that I am still in today, three years and two months later. I became unable to care for myself, unable to even be alone much of the time. I had to leave my home, my husband, my studio and my life painting in order to move back into my mother's house in CT for full time care where I remain today. (Still with my husband -- he comes every weekend and has been unwavering in his knowledge that this will end and we will have life together again. He is .. .. . an angel.)

I have spent these three years fighting for my life. I have gone through literally dozens and dozens of treatment attempts. Many conventional -- 13 different drugs, ECT, CBT -- and many many alternative treatments too numerous to list. None have helped, many have hurt, some badly. I know that most of you will understand all too well what I mean when I say how indescribably painful and frightening it is to search for help when you are virtually incapacitated with terror but so frantic with panic that you cannot do nothing. But I am now .. . how do I say it? I am beyond exhausted, and also feel that I cannot search anymore, that continued searching will not actually help me.

I was just forced to go through another search when a promising treatment (neurofeedback) did not pan out after 5 excruciating months. And, though I relied on my gut as much as I could like always, this last search was the most painful of all and again led to dead ends. I had prayed -- ok, mostly begged -- God all Summer and into the Fall to please please let the end come so that I did not have to go through the agony of searching in the dark esoteric ether again, so that I did not have to live through my fourth Winter, Christmas, New Year, birthday, etc. sick. I tried so hard to tell Him that I feared it would be closer to unbearable than ever before.

I could not have been more right. If I were not afraid that this is already too long, I would give you gory details of what withstanding a day is like for me. But I trust that many of you know well enough.

I cannot remember as hard as I try what it is like to live without virtually constant pounding terror, what joy and calm feel like. Yet, something in me MUST remember because I want to come back to life more than anything ever ever ever ever. And I want to give life back to my family so very badly too. My mother is sick herself -- sick with the grief of helplessly watching her child suffer so badly every day that she (I) literally screams in agony begging for death. (I am not suicidal -- no attempts, no serious plans. But I do fear reaching my limit. Though in complete honesty, I fear just as much NOT reaching it and continuing indefinitely like this, unable to die, unable to live.) I am blessed with a family that understands AND has the patience and stamina to care for me. But their lives have stopped as well. I want to give life back to them more than I can say.

Right now I have a very devout prayer healer working on me. He is Muslim and in West Africa, but I know that he has a pure and humble heart and no motivation other than helping me. His life's calling is prayer and helping to heal others. In contrast to so many of the people I have seen here, his work is a calling, not a business and he does not ask for any payment.

And I am so fortunate to have others who have prayed for me deeply every single day of these three years. But I would like to again ask those of you who can to help, to pray for me as well. I would be so grateful.

Thank you and forgive the length of this.

With love,

Nomi Spector


Re: Asking for prayers again (still)

Posted by lynn971 on December 31, 2005, at 6:59:26

In reply to Asking for prayers again (still), posted by Spector on December 31, 2005, at 2:03:42

Oh Spector,

I started praying for you as I was reading your post. I will continue praying for you. I have had crippling anxiety to the point that you want to die. I was not suicidal but felt like death was the only relief. Just please dont ever try suicide. I am begging you.

I will continue to pray for you on a daily basis.

I am a christian, so I hope that you dont mind if I pray for you too.

Your friend,


Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » lynn971

Posted by Spector on January 2, 2006, at 0:22:24

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still), posted by lynn971 on December 31, 2005, at 6:59:26

Dear Lynn,

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. We are strangers, but to know that someone, I think particularly someone who knows first hand something of the severity of what I am experiencing, cares enough to pray for me daily, means more than I can say. My prayers have not yet been answered, but I do not believe that there is such a thing as a wasted prayer ever.

Thank you again.

With love,

Nomi Spector


Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too. (nm) » Spector

Posted by crazy teresa on January 2, 2006, at 0:40:38

In reply to Asking for prayers again (still), posted by Spector on December 31, 2005, at 2:03:42


Re: Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too. » crazy teresa

Posted by Spector on January 2, 2006, at 2:11:05

In reply to Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too. (nm) » Spector, posted by crazy teresa on January 2, 2006, at 0:40:38

Maybe I should wait and not thank each person separately? But I don't want to wait. Thank you, Teresa. Very very much.

When you call out in the kind of desperation I am in and people actually answer, it means a lot. It means a lot just to know you are in the thoughts of others. Being in this state is so so isolating. Even with my family with me every step, I feel unspeakably alone. I remind myself over and over and over that God is with me no matter what, but ... . well, though I believe it, I cannot feel it. Almost never. An illness like this seems to take away that part of oneself that makes you able to feel safe, protected. I know that God is not a cruel God; he is not a vengeful God. But this illness is cruel. Pure cruelty. And the kind of isolation and aloneness and terror that it leaves a person in is so profound that even the most loving family and friends cannot take it away. And yet I need them terribly. I need their love terribly. And their certainty that there is an end to this suffering, that life will return to me in full. And I need their prayers. I need their prayers especially because my own are more like desperate screams and pleadings than prayers. Though God must hear those too. He must.

My love,

Nomi Spector


Re: Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too.

Posted by lynn971 on January 2, 2006, at 17:17:57

In reply to Re: Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too. » crazy teresa, posted by Spector on January 2, 2006, at 2:11:05

I really mean it. I will and have been praying for you daily.

Love you,


Re: Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too. » lynn971

Posted by Spector on January 3, 2006, at 1:16:44

In reply to Re: Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too., posted by lynn971 on January 2, 2006, at 17:17:57

Lynn, thank you again from the bottom of my heart. Yes, I can tell that you really do mean it. And knowing that you have made that commitment for me brings tears my eyes.

I cannot tell you how badly I hope that soon I can tell you that God has brought me through to the other side of this.

You know, I know that when this ends something or things will become possible that may never have been possible otherwise; some door will open that I may never have even imagined could open before. I do believe that very strongly. But . . .. . . well, it has to END first. And that is a big but. In the midst of pain and terror as severe as this, there is no beginning, there is no end; it is infinite and can force a person who wants desperately to live to beg for death. It must move into the past in order to take its rightful place as an excruciating experience that through the grace of God led me too whatever I am being led to. While it remains in the present, simply withstanding it, simply surviving it, simply remaining alive is unrelenting torture. And it has been in the present for three years, two months and two days.

My goodness, Lynn, if some of the people I have gone to for help could experience for say an hour what I have been withdstanding for three years, they would not believe it. Literally -- they would not believe that a human being could live like that for three years. (That is, if their brains did not implode purely from actually experiencing a condition that they thought they understood, that they thought they were experts in, that they may have devoted a large part of their professional lives to treating.) I do not say this because I am some superhero or something for surviving the intolerable -- NO, just the opposite -- I am just a regular scaredy cat person. That's what makes it so unbelievable. I mean, even I cannot fathom how it could be true that I have gone over three years like this. Truly, truly it is so unbelievable that many moments every day I cannot quite believe it. It is surreal in a very frightening way. And many many of the people I have gone to for help have not been able to quite believe that it is as bad as it is for as long as it been. And I can't fully blame them; I might not be able to believe it myself if I had not lived it.

Yes, what has happened to me has been a series of extremely atypical things: the almost 14 year complete remission, the unspeakably severe and unrelenting reaction to the simulant, the extraordinary length of the depression and the severity of the anxiety, and my so far total treatment resistance.

Atypical in the extreme. That is what I am told.

Why am I telling you all this? Well, because it is one of the only only ways I can get some fleeting release. But also to tell you that knowing you are with me in prayer while this illness continues to attack me so brutally is a source of comfort. Tiny comfort, but very very important to me. Since for me the worse the terror is, the less I can feel God's presence no matter how much I tell myself that He is with me always, it means a great deal to know that people who are right now more able to feel His realness are praying to Him on my behalf. That was a convoluted sentense, but you got what meant I hope.

Lynn, you are a sweet and good soul. I felt that instantly from your first response to my request, but tonight I made sure by reading some of your other posts. You have, I think, the kind of open heart that comes through in everything you write. Thank you again so so much.

With love,



Re: Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too.

Posted by lynn971 on January 4, 2006, at 19:26:06

In reply to Re: Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too. » lynn971, posted by Spector on January 3, 2006, at 1:16:44


I first experienced anxiety when my first child was born. I was watching a program about a baby that had adverse affects from a vaccination shot. I was already anxious because I had this new little life, but that program sent me over the edge. I knew that I had to give the shots again when she was 2 month, 4 months, 6 months and 15 months. I was paralyzed with fear.

I barely remember the first two years of her life. I read and meditated on scriptures. My hair was falling. My husband would come home and I would be crying. He did not know what to do. He tried taking me on a week end trip. I just went through the motions. I prayed, "Lord, when they give my baby the shots, I pray that she does not even cry much less have a bad side affect." Well, the nurses were amazed because my baby did not cry. She did not run fever are anything.

After the "baby shot" ordeal, I began worrying about all kinds of things. My mind was consumed with anxiety.

Finally, someone I trusted talked me into taking an anti depressant. I did (prozac) and it worked for ten years.

This summer I experienced the worse anxiety ever. This time, I could not just go through the routines. This time, I could not function. I could not pay bills, cook, or anything else. I I would do was pace and cry. Then I experienced akathisia. OMG! I would not wish that on the worst dictator there ever was!

I couldn't imagine going through that type of anxiety for three years.

I suppose this is why I have such a "burden" for you. I know that God will bring you through! He will! The scriptures say that if I ask anything in Jesus' Name, I shall receive.

It also says that if two of you agree as touching anything on earth it shall be done unto you.

If we have faith as small as a mustard seed, we can say to that mountain be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea.

God's promises come by faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

When I was going through the most horrible anxiety, I got a cd with these scriptures on it and I would listen and listen and listen and listen to it. I would go to sleep with the scriptures on. I believe that even when we are sleeping, our spirit can still receive the scriptures.

In His love,


Re: Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too. » lynn971

Posted by Spector on January 5, 2006, at 2:31:39

In reply to Re: Keep hanging on! I'm praying for you, too., posted by lynn971 on January 4, 2006, at 19:26:06


I somehow had never heard of akathisia. I had to look it up. My God. What I read was almost (almost) too horrible to believe. I understand it can vary in intensity, but anything approaching the worse end of the spectrum sounds nearly unbearable. I am a little surprised that I had never heard of it, especially because one of the horrible drug reactions I experienced in one of many attempts at drug treatment was from Geodon, an antipsychotic also used a mood stabilizer, could have involved akathisia. I described it as extraordinary aggitation, so severe I had to run around the downstairs of my mother's house in circles biting at my arms and crying/yelling out. It was unreal. I don't know if that was a version akathisia or not, but I had to come off the medication which was doing absolutely no good anyway.

Was the akathisia connected to the Prozac, or were you already off it by then? Also, can I ask if this terrible terrible period is part of what I read you wrote about a little while back where you were helped by changing/increasing the hormones you were taking?

Yes, I think you understand why it is unthinkable to fathom three years of this. I'm telling you, Lynn (Rachel? Now I'm not sure what to call you . . . ), it is as though IT IS TRYING TO KILL ME. I really mean that. In the obvious way that it seems to be trying, by sheer force of its power and duration, to make me take my life. But also in another way: living with this amount of terror, this amount of exhaustion for so so long is indescribably physically and mentally debilitating. My body is being violently attacked almost constantly. I mean that quite literally. I wake into terror over and over in the mornings so severe that my chest and stomache burn and ache and feel punched and stabbed over and over and over. I often scream out in panic and gag or even vomit (sorry) from pure terror. But I stay in the bed as long as I can possibly bear it hoping hoping for one more second of sleep so that I don't have to be conscious of being in the inescapable nightmare that is being alive right now. But when there is no more possibility of sleep, I run to my mother who holds me and holds me on the couch while I cry and moan and writhe in continued pain and terror so bad that I now cannot help but often beg for death right in front of her, something I had tried not to do in front of her but can no longer manage. I beg too for mercy over and over. And all through a level of exhaustion that I have never known before. The terror, hopelessness, physical pain and exhaustion together are so so severe that each day I cannot bear the knowledge that I will have to drag myself crawling through another day.

It is not getting easier. No. The tiny and far far between bits of time I would have where it would back off just a bit, are almost non-existent now. This is what I mean by the feeling that it is trying to kill me in the way that a terrible degenerative disease would. I KNOW that depression is different than a degenerative disease, and as debilitated as I am, as physically weakened as I am, as much as my organs FEEL like they cannot possibly withstand much more, it is probably not going to kill me in that way.

But I have fought so so long. So so hard. I cannot do it much longer. I cannot. If I told you about every thing I have tried and the painful experiences I have had to endure with almost every treatment attempt .. .. well, it would be pages and you would understand why I am asking begging praying not to be forced to have to search anymore.

Right this moment I am petrified of going to bed knowing that save an overnight miracle (which I would accept) I am in a few too short hours going to wake into the very very worst of it again. Again. The worst torture I have ever known.

Faith as small as a mustard seed. Do I have a mustard seed of faith? I think I must. I must. I do not believe I could still be here if I did not have even a mustard seed's worth of faith.

Your words are very reassuring. And inspiring. You say you KNOW that God will bring me through. You must really know. I try my hardest to know. But, in the grip of panic and terror and hopelessness, the best I can do is try to remember that others know. Others know for sure. I tell myself that every morning when I wake into immediate no transition pounding terror. I try to tell myself anything I can to find one second of suspension from the dread. I try to call on God. And my father who died when I was seven, and all my relatives who have passed on who MUST be with me now when I need them so badly, and all the people who love me and are praying for me every day and are with me every day and waiting and waiting for me to come back, and even the person (you) who does not know me but cares enough to pray for me as long as it takes.

But .. . . but, often it is not enough. I cannot make it enough. I remain trembling in a panic so severe that I can feel my whole body shake with each heartbeat, that often it hurts just to breath, that my mind races frantically in circles trying to get me out of this torture.

And yet, and yet, well, I have survived for over three years like this. What does that mean? It must mean I do want to live very very badly. It must mean that I have a mustard seed of faith. No? And although the people taking care of me cannot take the pain away, they are helping me survive every hour, every day.

I try my best to remember that God has not forsaken me, that He is still guiding me even when I feel so lost and horrifically vulnerable, that He still loves me and that He knows what He's doing. I try. I try. I try. And I do believe these things. But, as I have said, for the most part I cannot feel them now. As hard as I try. And I end up screaming at Him, why why why? Why can it not end now? How can it not be enough yet? How? How? How? I don't know much about this, but I tell myself that I am not the first person to scream at God, to cry to Him begging for mercy. Any time that I can pray (I mean in the more meditative sense) I do. But in the worst of it the best I can do is beg. And that is a lot of the time.

Oh dear. This is very long again. If you would like to write to me privately, my e-mail address is: But, of course, I understand if you would rather not.

Thank you, Rachel. It will be good when I can tell you that this prayer has been answered. Understatement.




Re: Asking for prayers again (still)

Posted by Maynerd on January 7, 2006, at 1:42:38

In reply to Asking for prayers again (still), posted by Spector on December 31, 2005, at 2:03:42

Without a doubt my prayers are with you that you can find some peace in your life and within sometime real soon. You are blessed to have such a wonderful partner as you do, that is amazing gift. I can understand somewhat as I too am manic depressive from around 22 all the way to today at 39. As I came from a poor country family I never went to a doctor about it, I really didn't even realize the mania and depression were connected. About two years ago I started rapid cycling really bad which made me feel as if my sanity was being ripped out of my head in all direction, It was so bad I was forced to finally seek help. Luckily for me I responded quite well to litium and have manged to be stable enough to stay in school and get my life on track.
I know this may sound sort of ridiculous but I was wondering if you have ever tried smoking marijuana? I ask because when I was suffering my worst smoking a little would always make things a little better; the depressions were grey instead of black and the manic episodes weren't out of control. Many american doctors are divided about the positive effects of the cannaboids in it, but I have read some amazing research results from Canada about marijuana. One of my T's totally supports my use in times of need, the other wants me to quit it forever. I guess I always felt that if there is a God who is good and created everything natural then it must be a good thing as well.
I of course don't suggest that smoking it will solve all your problems by any means, only that it might give you a little help in making it through to the next day.


Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » Maynerd

Posted by Spector on January 7, 2006, at 2:53:33

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still), posted by Maynerd on January 7, 2006, at 1:42:38

Hi Maynerd, thank you very much for your prayers and hopes. And, yes, yes, I am blessed to have such a wonderful partner. He IS a gift.

Marijuana? I have only smoked it a handful of times in my life. The last three times it caused paranoia, the third time bad enough so that I never smoked it again. I have not tried it since I was 18 and certainly would not risk it in the state I am in now. Drugs, legal and otherwise, do not like me. I sometimes wish I could drown in alcohol to numb the terror, but even alcohol is problematic for me. I suppose that is a blessing in disguise as I would have a hugely compounded problem if I became a drinker or drug user.

I am very glad you have responded well to lithium. It sounds like you went through hell. Lithium for me did nothing to help and caused a few nearly intolerable side effects. Yep.

Thank you again,

Nomi Spector


Re: Asking for prayers again (still)

Posted by survivor1 on January 28, 2006, at 18:20:57

In reply to Asking for prayers again (still), posted by Spector on December 31, 2005, at 2:03:42

I will pray for you and hope for a quick recovery. I am so glad you have such a support system. Just hold on and get to the end of the pain. I will pray.


Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » survivor1

Posted by Spector on January 29, 2006, at 0:57:56

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still), posted by survivor1 on January 28, 2006, at 18:20:57

Hi. Thank you so so much. Your prayers mean the world to me. I am waiting and waiting to be able to post on here that it has ended.

With love,

Nomi Spector


Re: Asking for prayers again (still)

Posted by Jon90211 on March 8, 2006, at 14:28:24

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » survivor1, posted by Spector on January 29, 2006, at 0:57:56


I am praying for you and will enlist others to join in prayer. My heart hurts terribly for you. I cried as I read your story. I also became angry that you are having to go through this... angry at the devil. I think the devil knows how much God loves you and that's why he's attacking you so viciously. He knows what God has planned for you. Makes me think you have a very special calling on your life.

Nomi, you will be delivered! I know this! Just hang on and trust God. He loves you so much and has been there with you through all of this.



Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » Jon90211

Posted by Spector on March 8, 2006, at 22:03:26

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still), posted by Jon90211 on March 8, 2006, at 14:28:24

Dear Jon, thank you so much for these words. Thank you so so much.

Since last posting here, I have tested positive for Lyme disease. This is very good news as it potentially explains why NO treatment has helped me, not even the passage of three years four months and 8 days. The idea is that while underlying Lyme disease did not cause my depression -- no, that would be the AMPHETIMINE I was inexcusably given -- it may well be perpetuating it, keeping me in this nearly unsurvivable state for an off-the-charts amount of time.

I have started a long course of heavy duty antibiotics as treatment.

I still have my intellect, so I know that this is hopeful. But my brain is so utterly overtaken with terror and despair and exhaustion that I am virtually unable to feel this hope. I am simply frantic with the panic that this will again again again not be it, that this will just be more torture leading nowhere, that I will be left (unimaginably) even more ravaged, more terrorized, more cut off than ever from anything we call life, and still unable to die, still trapped in a literal Hell on Earth unable to live, unable to die.

I know these are grim words. But maybe you will understand that the hope of a new treatment mixed with the terror of another possible devastation is nearly unbearable.

I try my very hardest to trust God, to know that He is with me. But Jon, I cannot feel Him. I still believe He is there, but I cannot feel Him. I cannot feel Him as hard as I try, as much as I ask.

Jon, thank you so much for your prayers. I cannot tell you what they mean to me. I need them more than ever at this moment.

I hope so much to soon be able to tell you that it is over, that I have been delivered from this.

With love,



Re: Asking for prayers again (still)

Posted by Jon90211 on March 9, 2006, at 8:49:12

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » Jon90211, posted by Spector on March 8, 2006, at 22:03:26

Good morning, Nomi!

The Holy Spirit has definitely laid you on my heart. I have been praying for you and will continue. You will come out of this victorious. I realize that it is difficult, if not impossible to feel the presence of God in your situation, but He is with you and cares deeply for you.

Keep in mind that the devil is totally responsible for your pain and torment. his main objective is to separate you from God. Anxiety and depression are his most vicious weapons b/c by their very nature they prevent us from experiencing the things of God - joy, peace, gratitude. I know this b/c I have been a victim of these assaults and know the hell.

As Jesus tells us in John 10:10 "The enemy comes to seek, kill and destroy, but I have come that you would have life and have it more abundantly." Believe me, I know how hard it is to believe God when we are in the middle of what feels like hell, but we must. Satan is the liar who has been telling you that this will never end. Don't listen to him b/c he is a liar and a pathetic punk. I'm so pissed about what he's doing to you! You're God's precious little daughter and you have been promised the abundant life. By His very nature God cannot lie!

God tells you in Isaiah 41:13
For I am the LORD, your God,
who takes hold of your right hand
and says to you, Do not fear;
I will help you

I have been holding on to that promise lately and it has comforted me.

Nomi, I believe in miracles. I believe in the God of the Bible who healed people in an instant. I think of the woman who had been hemorrhaging for 12 years and had spent everything she had on doctors and cures, but nothing worked. she was at the end of a "very long long rope". One touch of Jesus' robe and she was healed! After 12 long years! One touch. And you know what Jesus told her? "Your faith has made you well" For some reason your situation reminds me of this story. I often think about what it must have been like for that woman and what her life was like after that day. It must have been filled with incredible peace, joy and unlimited love. I see that for you. You will be restored and God will help you. He has good gifts for His daughter.

I thank God for you, Nomi, and praise Him for the healing He is bringing about in your body, mind and spirit.

Know that I'll be praying for you today.



Re: Asking for prayers again (still)

Posted by Spector on March 10, 2006, at 2:04:48

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still), posted by Jon90211 on March 9, 2006, at 8:49:12

Jon, thank you so much again. Thank you for your deep compassion and your commitment and your certainty that I am not abandoned here.

I printed out the Isaiah passage to have it near me.

With love,



Re: Asking for prayers again (still)

Posted by Jon90211 on March 13, 2006, at 8:52:55

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still), posted by Spector on March 10, 2006, at 2:04:48

Good morning, Nomi.

Just wanted to let you know that you're on my heart and I'm still praying (and rooting) for you.

I hope and pray that you have a peaceful day.



Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » Jon90211

Posted by Spector on March 15, 2006, at 0:37:10

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still), posted by Jon90211 on March 13, 2006, at 8:52:55

Thank you, Jonathan. Thank you very much.

No peaceful day. No. Terror and despair so severe that I am virtually incapacitated. Now three years four months fourteen days. Unfathomable even to me. Some people assume when they hear the amount of time that it has been "up and down." No. Only down and down. It can be hard to get that across to people who are not living with me. Understandably.

Please keep praying for me.



Re: Asking for prayers again (still)

Posted by jon90211 on March 16, 2006, at 11:02:21

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » Jon90211, posted by Spector on March 15, 2006, at 0:37:10

Nomi, I will keep praying and asking God to reveal Himself to you. I do not understand why you are suffering so much. It makes no sense.

Suffering is very hard to understand, especially depression and anxiety. I think that hope is the most important thing for the human spirit and that is the very thing lacking when one experiences depression and anxiety. It seems that we as humans can endure an incredible amount of suffering as long as we have hope. I think of Victor Frankl's book "Man's Search for meaning". Have you read it?

I can't even begin to comprehend what you're experiencing. I have been debilitated by despair, depression and anxiety, but not as severe as what you are going through. Right now I am at my mom's house in SC trying to recover the strength to get back to my life in Los Angeles. I will be 35 next week and feel as if my life has derailed by this crap (actually, I was on prozac for about 5 years and strongly suspect that it has contributed to my "condition")

I understand when you say that you desperately want to give back to your family. Gosh, I know that feeling. I love my family and have felt that all I was capable of doing is taking. It sucks because I have always thought of myself as someone with a lot to give. From your postings, it sounds like you are a person with an enormous capacity to love.

I'm not sure your thoughts on Jesus and I hope I'm not offending you by referencing him, but I have learned a great deal about the meaning of suffering from him. As I mentioned before, I think satan targets those who are a threat to him. Jesus is a very good example. satan went after Jesus. But because of Jesus' faith and hope in God, he defeated the works of darkness for good. And there's the hope right there - no matter what the devil throws our way, we can know that God is much more powerful and will work everything out for our ultimate benefit. Jesus trusted God so much that he willingly died a horrendous death for reasons I think he didn't fully understand at the time (much like us when we suffer). But he trusted and God resurrected His Spirit through us who believe... believe in what He says no matter what it looks like at the time. When Jesus was dying on the cross, it looked bad - even his closest friends had deserted him to die the death of a criminal. This man who loved greater than anyone.

Anyway, that's a little bit of my perspective on why we suffer. I don't know if it helps, but I guess the bottom line is that God will use our suffering for good. Like David's attititude in Psalm 119:71 "The suffering you sent to me was good for it taught me to pay attention to your principles" Do you ever read the pslams? I have found a lot of comfort in them. David seemed to have suffered a great deal from depair and depression.

You will come out of this, Nomi... and with a testimony that will change lives. I believe that!!! Just keep reminding yourself that God is good and He will come through for you.

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you HOPE and a future." Jeremiah 29:11

I will be praying for you today.



Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » jon90211

Posted by Spector on March 23, 2006, at 2:45:32

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still), posted by jon90211 on March 16, 2006, at 11:02:21


I've been wanting to answer you for days. But it has pummeled me so brutally, so unrelentingly that it has been impossible until this tiny window right now.

I cannot tell you how cruelly horrific it has been. It has been so unspeakably unfathomably bad for so long, but every time it gets even worse it is unbelievable. The pressure now of waiting to see if this new treatment will be my release is nearly unbearable. I literally beg for the ability to die if this is another cruel dead end. That request has never been granted along with all of my other (more life affirming ones), but that is actually the most frightening prospect of all -- this not being "it" AND having to continue to be alive. This would have more meaning if I gave you the sickening details of the treatments after treatments after treatments that I have endured these past 3-1/2 years. But that would be a book.

What you say about the terrible irony of severe depression and anxiety taking away the thing we need the most -- HOPE -- when we are suffering is so very true. It is also one of the things most impossible to convey to people who have not lived in the horrific "otherness" of this parallel universe that we are painfully familiar with.

Jesus? I am a Jew. But I like to hear about Jesus. Transcendent love and compassion. And sacrifice.

Victor Frankl's book, yes I did read it many years ago. Remember the deep impression it left on me, but few details.

But, Johnathan, I have been these last super horrific days, less able to even tell myself that God is with me and everything. I have found myself screaming why? Why do you hate me so much?

I know this is not correct. I do know that. But I am human and after so so much struggle and blinding incapacitating terror searching endlessly for help so dibilitated that I cannot describe -- yes, I feel abandoned. Abandoned. And that there is just some cruel entitity out there experimenting with me like a nasty child would with a small animal or a bug, pulling its legs off, and, oh, look, it's still alive. Then poking it maybe with needles, and, look, it's squirming and moaning but still alive. Let's try some acid. It writhes and screams in agony, but remains alive. Endlessly it goes like this.

I hope you can understand this level of rage, terror and helplessness.

Please, please keep praying for me if you can?

Need it.

And thank you for the scripture. It (of course) has the power of conviction in its words.

With love,



Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » Spector

Posted by Jon90211 on March 23, 2006, at 11:16:49

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » jon90211, posted by Spector on March 23, 2006, at 2:45:32


I was glad to get your post. I have been praying for you daily and know that you are going to come through this. I realize that's probably of little comfort, but I myself have benefited greatly from the faith and encouragement of others. I pray that I can be an encourager to you.

No matter what it seems like, you are not abandoned. God tells you in Deuteronomy 31:8 "The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged." I know how hard it is to hear that when you're suffering, but it is THE TRUTH and no matter what happens we must trust in what God says.

David felt completely abadoned also, but he continued to believe in the God of Israel no matter what.Psalm 22:1-3
"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
   Why are you so far from saving me,
   so far from the words of my groaning?
O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
   by night, and am not silent.
Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
   you are the praise of Israel."

Echoing David in Ps 22, Jesus' last words as he hung on the cross were "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" This was a man who trusted God more than anyone who ever walked the earth, yet he also felt abandoned. But God had great plans for him as evidenced by his resurrection and the hope that he has given to countless souls.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that by feeling abandoned, you are not alone. In fact, you are in very good company. God loves you, Nomi... and it hurts him deeply to see you suffer. He is a loving Father. To see you his daughter go through so much pain must be very very difficult for him because He knows the blessings He has ahead for you. It is not God that is causing you to suffer, it's the devil.

By the way, just because you are Jewish doesn't mean you can't believe what Jesus says. He was born Jewish and died for everyone. In fact, because they were God's chosen, the people of Israel were very special to Jesus. Jesus speaks words of life, words that help us have a pure relationship with our loving Father. That was Jesus' purpose - to restore our relationship with God. Don't let "religion" get in your way - Jew vs. Christian or Muslim. That is a tatic of Satan... to divide. God is much greater than that.

Nomi, I am also going through my own journey of discovering God. One thing I've realized is that if it were not for my suffering, I would not be seeking Him so aggressively. Everyday I pray that I would have a deeper faith. A lot of the time it feels like I have zero faith and that God is not there, but I know I must press on and believe.

I started a fast this week and am expecting God to reveal himself in big ways. Among other things I am praying for this week, I am asking Him to come into your situation in a mighty way. I believe he will! And as Jesus says in Mark 9:23 "Everything is possible for him who believes"

Have you ever tried fasting? I have been reading a lot about the amazing healing benefits of fasting. It's quite amazing. If you haven't tried fasting, you may want to give it a try. check out this website for a good overview on fasting

Also, if you are interested in exploring the Bible online, is a great resource. You can even listen to the Bible there. Pretty cool.

I know in my situation, I've needed every bit of hope and encouragement I could get. Just know that even though I don't know you, I am right here cheering you on. You will have victory over this!

I pray that you experience some relief and that your nightmare is coming to an end very soon. I'm expecting great things.

God will bless you, Nomi.



Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » Jon90211

Posted by Spector on March 25, 2006, at 3:03:58

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » Spector, posted by Jon90211 on March 23, 2006, at 11:16:49

Jonathan, hi. Thank you. Again. Your words and certainty and continued prayer DO mean something to me. A lot. You say it's probably of little comfort. Well .. . . a little comfort is the very best I can do right now. So, yes, it is of little comfort, but without the faith and prayers and constant care of others, I believe I would not be here any longer. I count on the strength and conviction of others every hour of every day and remind myself of it incessantly to try to stay this side of all out panic.

But I am in exile. A very cold terrifying exile from all things life. I do not truly believe that I have been abandoned by God. I don't know if I could survive if I really really believed that, but I guess like anyone else who has suffered severely enough especially for such a long time, I feel profoundly forsaken. And angry. At times, almost violently enraged. That, I think, is normal.

Thank you for the Psalm of David lines you copied for me. They make me cry.

I don't know. I don't know. I cannot imagine how this will ever end. I just know I want to be allowed back in. I just want to be back with my baby, (my husband). Desperately. I just want to be back in life. More than anything ever ever ever ever. I don't like to say I am "supposed to" have been painting all this time, because I do not really believe that God "wastes" our time. But, hell, it sure feels that way. I would have been painting away for these past three and a half years! I was just just just starting to discover the mysteries of putting bits of color on a canvas, just starting to make my "own" paintings. It is frustrating beyond description that I was so brutally torn away from that, as I was so brutally torn away from all things that gives one's life meaning. It is sickening. And what has replaced it is not numbness, as terrible as that would be, but terror and despair more crippling than I could ever have drempt (not a word, I know) up.

I guess you know all this already. I am repeating myself. Luckily you don't have to live with me and hear my repetitions constantly.

I know that I can believe what Jesus says, and I do.

Thank you again,



Re: Asking for prayers again (still)

Posted by jon90211 on March 28, 2006, at 17:50:02

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » Jon90211, posted by Spector on March 25, 2006, at 3:03:58

Hi Nomi-

Just wanted you to know that you are in my thoughts and prayers today.



Re: Asking for prayers again (still) » jon90211

Posted by Spector on March 28, 2006, at 21:34:30

In reply to Re: Asking for prayers again (still), posted by jon90211 on March 28, 2006, at 17:50:02

Jonathan, thank you. Needed more than ever. Terror unrelenting -- unrelenting -- and many hours spent in uncontrollable panic.

Darkest before the dawn? Maybe . . . . .. maybe. But all I know for sure is many many many darkests without any dawn.


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