Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 539505

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Re: Want to learn about stories » Deneb

Posted by Dena on August 10, 2005, at 16:01:54

In reply to Re: Want to learn about stories » Dena, posted by Deneb on August 9, 2005, at 20:04:12

Deneb -

Good for you for thinking up some GOOD questions! And yes, I most definitely want to answer them, as best I can, or at least to speculate with you a bit...

Much about God is a mystery, and will always be, as long as we're confined to a mortal body, with a finite mind.

Much I have no clue about.

But this I know: God is good, and God loves me. Also, God sees the BIG picture, while I'm limited to my own little horizon... as well as limited by time and space. He has no such boundaries... and He alone can see how something seemingly horrendous in my own life (like losing two unborn babies) can work together for my ultimate good... which I can't comprehend... but, since I know He's good and loves me, I can choose to trust Him with the ultimate working out of such things...

And I don't have to understand Him, in order to love Him...

However, my time is too short to delve into deeper conversation with you at this moment... I'll try to get to it later tonight, but I'm moving tomorrow from Virginia to Oregon... along with 6 of my 7 kids... the other one will stay behind with my husband to oversee the movers, and join us on Saturday. I shall be computer-less for a week or more! Egads!

I'll get to you as soon as I can, and perhaps others can chime in?

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: Want to learn about stories » Deneb

Posted by rayww on August 10, 2005, at 17:17:26

In reply to Re: Want to learn about stories » Dena, posted by Deneb on August 9, 2005, at 20:04:12

> Do Christians believe God was responsible for the Big Bang?

Today's time magazine calls it "Intelligent design". And President Bush is even behind it. Hurrah for Bush. May the force be with you.

>Do Christians believe that there are other planets with intelligent life on them?
I'm tempted to give you a scipture answer here that states "worlds without number has God created". So, yes, yes yes.

> How come God loved humans so much? What about the plants, animals, other planets and stars?

God loves all of his creations, but we are his children, created after his image. We lived in heaven as his spirit children before we were born. (now do you see why I want to verify what I say with scripture?)

> Does that mean that God expresses his love for us? How does he do this if he does this?

Well, have you asked him to reveal his love to you? He's just waiting.

> Why did God not want them to touch the fruit? Why did he make such a bad tree? Also, does that mean that knowledge is bad/sinful? I love my hamster and I wouldn't put poison in his cage.

I guess you have alread surmised that my Mormon answers will be a little different from other Christians.

All God's creations have purpose, as did the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The purpose of that was to bring death into the world, and u and I, and create the need for a savior. No one knows how long Adam and Eve lived alone in the Garden, but it was long enough. They knew they had been commanded to multiply and replentish the earth, and with Eve not there, Adam would be left alone, so he partook to be with Eve. Once they were out on their own, their bodies changed and became mortal, and started reproducing. Everything started reproducing, and death was introduced, though people lived 900 years at first.

> So, in order to be perfect one cannot even know that evil exists?

Here's another scripture, "there must needs be opposition in all things" Evil exists. It's part of god's plan. We perfect ourselves as we learn to overcome it. But we still rely upon God's grace as we strive. And together, hand in hand we overcome evil.

> Does God want to provide everything for us? Didn't God already provide everything since He created everything? What exactly does God provide? Food, water, shelter? Was it ok if Adam and Eve built their own shelter?

God has given us all we need but it is up to us to work, and work hard, very hard to survive. And we need to look around and help others as well.

> Why did everything have to fall? Wasn't it only Adam and Eve who disobeyed? If nothing died before, does that mean that there was no reproduction?

Adam fell that man might be. And man is that he might have joy. Sometimes the only way to get an answer to a question is to pray about it and receive the divine understanding that can only come from God. The Garden of Eden was a specific place. Outside of it we know were creations of all other things. Was there reproduction and death before the fall? Not in the Garden of Eden. God placed animals and fish and birds, insects, plants, on the earth before he placed man. But there was something specific that needed to happen in the Garden of Eden before it all got set in motion. For instance, we know there was no killing between animals, for all got along, the lion and lamb were tame, and will be again when we have our perfect world. You ask some really good questions, and I don't have all the answers. No one does, but God reveals his mysteries to those who are prepared.

> If God created everything, does that mean He created sin as well? So, sin doesn't have to be evil? Sin could just be what God doesn't want and we have no way to know what God wants because we are not perfect and cannot comprehend it?

Not exactly. Satan is sin. And God has tried his best to teach us right from wrong. God allows Satan to tempt us, but he provides an escape and helps to get us over it. In the Bible stories if you ever find them, it points out how Cain killed his brother and rejected God right from the beginning of time. Man has always had his choice. You and I can choose good or evil, but it helps to know and understand the difference. You can't know joy if you have never known sadness. The height of emotion usually balances out with the low. And, God provided a Savior, someone who was willing to come to earth, as God, and experience what we experience, suffer and die for our sins, then plead our cause to the father, and take upon himself our transgressions. We do not suffer for Adam's sin, only for our own if we do not repent, once we understand.

> Hmmm...that I really don't understand...how do animal sacrifices get rid of sin? Isn't it bad to kill things?

Sacrificing the best animal was an offering that Adam was commanded to do, because God knew and he taught Adam that Jesus would someday come to earth and be sacrificed for us. That commandment was done away with after Jesus' atonement. God has always used symbolism as a way of communicating with us, therefore we should keep our senses aware, of other ways than hearing words, of how God communes with man.

> How did the Virgin Mary get close to God when she sinned?

God has full command over all elements. He overshadowed her and caused her to become pregnant with his son. Mary did not sin. She was a virgin when Christ was born. Christ has a mortal mother and immortal father, therefore he was able to make the atoning sacrifice. Christ had the power to give his life when he chose, and when he felt he had paid the full price for each of our sins, he died. (another scripture "it is finished, into thy hands I commend my spirit") http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=Luke+23%3A46&search.x=25&search.y=7&search=Search

> Can other people never sin? What about babies? Do they sin? When babies die, do they go to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus? What about severely mentally retarded people?

here we believe differently, meaning mormons and other christians, We believe a child is innocent, as well as mentally retarded people, and that they go to heaven.

> So...if one believes in Jesus, then one becomes free of sin when one dies?

Here again we differ. That is the Christian belief. We never lose our accoutabiltiy for our own actions, and through faith, repentance, baptism, God forgives us of all our sins, so that when we approach the final judgement, those sins that we have repented of are simply not there. There is more to this, the Holy Ghost or spirit of the Lord, walks beside us to help us keep the commandments, and keep and protect us from harm.

> Does that mean that God can only "spy" on those who believe him? Or does God know everything about everyone? Also, how does one *know* whether or not they *truly* believe?

God knows everything about everyone. A person may think they believe, but when you know, you know. I can't think of a better way to describe it than that.

> So, do those who fail go to Hell then?

No, no, no. The glory of God is intelligence. You must know full well what you are doing, and know God, then willfully go against him in order to go to hell. He would never send one of his precious children who didn't know him, to hell. But, what we believe as hell is different than other Christians, who believe in just heaven and hell. We believe you go exactly where each person belongs, with likes of yourselves, but that we have a long time even after we die to get it straight. However, those who want a head start will certainly do all they can to figure it out while here. There is something about having a physical body that makes change easier. for instance, overcoming addiction.

> How come God didn't forgive people before Jesus died?

Scripture again: the graves were opened at that time, and all the righteous were resurrected when Jesus unlocked the doors to the resurrection. But before his resurrection, no one who had died before that time was. Note I said righteous (saints).

> I'm also curious about all the other stuff...about wise men and a star and such.

God had this planned carefully. He knew where that star would be, and it was. The reason for the wise men and the shepherds, was for witnesses to his birth. They recorded it in the Bible for us to read. God does not do anything without witnesses, and records. Bless those who have kept them to this day. Christ was actually born in April, but we celebrate it in December. Just tradition I guess.

> Heehee, enough questions for you? You don't have to answer them if you don't want to. Maybe other people can help out. :-)

Do I count? ;-)

 

brief clarification » rayww

Posted by Tamar on August 10, 2005, at 18:29:48

In reply to Re: Want to learn about stories » Deneb, posted by rayww on August 10, 2005, at 17:17:26

> > Can other people never sin? What about babies? Do they sin? When babies die, do they go to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus? What about severely mentally retarded people?
>
> here we believe differently, meaning mormons and other christians, We believe a child is innocent, as well as mentally retarded people, and that they go to heaven.

I just wanted to mention that in my Christian tradition we are taught that babies and people with mental disabilities go to heaven. So we're not different from Mormons in that respect (though there might perhaps be differences in the theological mechanics; I don't know enough about Mormons to be sure about that).

Other Christian traditions might take a different view... I've heard that the Roman Catholic church teaches that babies go to heaven as long as they've been baptised; otherwise they go to limbo for a while. But I'm prepared to be corrected if I've got that wrong!

 

Re: Just read Chapter 1

Posted by Deneb on August 10, 2005, at 20:28:37

In reply to Re: Want to learn about stories, posted by rayww on August 10, 2005, at 12:44:17

I just read Chapter 1: Before the Old Testament. It was a fun read. :-) I liked the pictures. :-)

I didn't know that people lived with God in heaven before the Earth was made...that was new to me.

Did some spirits never go to Earth and stayed in heaven? Once a spirit goes to Earth, do they forget about their time in heaven?

Are there plants and animals in heaven? The pictures showed plants and stuff.

Are there a LOT of spirits in heaven? One for every person in the world throughout the ages? Are people yet to be born in heaven? Is heaven very crowded?

How come Lucifer decided to be bad? If other spirits followed him, does that mean there was conflict in heaven?

Did God make the Earth so people could have the opportunity to explore things on their own? But God didn't want to control people right?

Hmmm...how did this story make me feel? It makes me feel like God is a cool guy. He seems loving and caring. :-) I suppose that's what it's supposed to feel 'cause it's a story for children and we don't want to scare children away from God. :-)

Deneb

 

Re: Just read Chapter 2

Posted by Deneb on August 10, 2005, at 20:54:31

In reply to Re: Just read Chapter 1, posted by Deneb on August 10, 2005, at 20:28:37

I just read Chapter 2 "Jesus makes the Earth"

I didn't know it was Jesus who made the Earth. I didn't know that Jesus existed before he was born. I thought it was God who made the universe and the Earth?

Did Jesus make "just" the Earth, or did he make our universe as well? If he made the stars and stuff, then that means he made our universe?

How come only Jesus got to make the Earth? Did the other spirits have the power to make the Earth?

So...heaven existed before the universe was made?

I have a LOT of trouble believing any of the things mentioned in this chapter. Do all people who believe in God need to believe the things mentioned in this chapter? Can Christians or Mormons or whatever believe in evolution and still go to heaven?

This Chapter made me feel like there is no way I can be a believer if believing means that I have to believe the Earth was made in 6 days.

Deneb

 

Re: Couldn't stop reading :-)

Posted by Deneb on August 10, 2005, at 21:48:11

In reply to Re: Just read Chapter 2, posted by Deneb on August 10, 2005, at 20:54:31

Got up to Chapter 20. :-)

Lots of questions, but it was riveting so I had to read on and on. :-)

Lots of stuff was new to new.

Deneb

 

Re: *new to me (nm)

Posted by Deneb on August 10, 2005, at 22:07:54

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-), posted by Deneb on August 10, 2005, at 21:48:11

 

Re: Couldn't stop reading :-) » Deneb

Posted by Dena on August 10, 2005, at 23:33:18

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-), posted by Deneb on August 10, 2005, at 21:48:11

Deneb -

Just be aware that what you're reading on that site is not what most Christians believe... it's Mormon doctrine (LDS Churdh) which is at odds with the rest of Christianity.

For instance, Christians believe that God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the one same God. The LDS church believes that each is a separate god, and that there are many other gods...

Christians believe that God has always been God, and that humans, while we can live forever, will never become gods.

The LDS Church believes that God used to be a normal human being, and evolved into a deity. They believe that all human beings have the potential to become gods themselves.

Of course you have the right to choose any faith that's presented to you, or none at all. But you should know that the LDS Church's teachings are not compatible with what Christians teach and believe.

Shalom, Dena

 

Re: brief clarification » Tamar

Posted by rayww on August 10, 2005, at 23:37:02

In reply to brief clarification » rayww, posted by Tamar on August 10, 2005, at 18:29:48

Thanks for that clarification Tamar. I was relieved.

 

Re: Couldn't stop reading :-) » Dena

Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2005, at 9:44:04

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-) » Deneb, posted by Dena on August 10, 2005, at 23:33:18

Of course, it's also difficult to say what Christians believe, since there is not uniformity there.

Not all Christians are Trinitarians. The Council of Nicea (sp?) made the concept of the Trinity orthodoxy, but before that it was definitely not. My pastor says that as long as I accept Jesus as my savior, I can consider myself Christian.

And Ray can correct me if I'm wrong. But while I *think* that Mormons believe that Jesus is God of this world, they don't believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate God.

And since Mormons *are* Christians, might it not be more accurate to compare their beliefs with the beliefs of *other* Christians? Rather than Christians?

 

Re: Couldn't stop reading :-) » Dena

Posted by rayww on August 11, 2005, at 9:53:17

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-) » Deneb, posted by Dena on August 10, 2005, at 23:33:18

Dena, I mentioned that we have differences, one of them being intelligent design. But we have way more similarities, even though as a religion, we stand independent, Deneb asked for stories from "all" religious texts.
Please be at peace. I am sorry you feel at odds.

Bible references are included throughout all the stories, except the one about Enoch. The Tower of Babal includes Book of Mormon references. The others may contain references to our scriptures and the Bible. They are true.

 

Re: Just read Chapter 2 » Deneb

Posted by rayww on August 11, 2005, at 10:54:38

In reply to Re: Just read Chapter 2, posted by Deneb on August 10, 2005, at 20:54:31

One day in God's time is more like 1000 years to us. So, it may have taken 6000 years to create, and 6000 years to inhabit. The 7th day He rested (Garden of Eden time) and in the 7th day the earth itself will rest, we call that the millenium, and we expect it to happen sometime this century. Jesus created the earth under the direction of God, they act as one, always have. No one is pressuring you to believe, just keep reading.

Btw, the scriptures say "today is the day for men to prepare to meet God" Meaning, the day of our life. When he used the term "day" in creation, it meant however long it took to create. Reason is crutial. We know it couldn't have happened in 24 hours. Evolution fits in with it, but not Darwin's whole theory. That's why the debate between Darwin and Intelligent design, and one that everyone should study. I admire you for wanting to hear both sides. I have too, and I believe in this one. It's important to realize there are two sides, and Darwin's has only ever stated it was a "theory". (I mean the ape thing :-)


> I just read Chapter 2 "Jesus makes the Earth"
>
> I didn't know it was Jesus who made the Earth. I didn't know that Jesus existed before he was born. I thought it was God who made the universe and the Earth?
>
> Did Jesus make "just" the Earth, or did he make our universe as well? If he made the stars and stuff, then that means he made our universe?
>
> How come only Jesus got to make the Earth? Did the other spirits have the power to make the Earth?
>
> So...heaven existed before the universe was made?
>
> I have a LOT of trouble believing any of the things mentioned in this chapter. Do all people who believe in God need to believe the things mentioned in this chapter? Can Christians or Mormons or whatever believe in evolution and still go to heaven?
>
> This Chapter made me feel like there is no way I can be a believer if believing means that I have to believe the Earth was made in 6 days.
>
> Deneb
>

 

doctrine etc... » Dinah

Posted by Tamar on August 11, 2005, at 16:28:38

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-) » Dena, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2005, at 9:44:04

> Of course, it's also difficult to say what Christians believe, since there is not uniformity there.

Very true! It would be interesting to get lots of different perspectives here!

> Not all Christians are Trinitarians.

Do you mean that not all individual Christians subscribe to the doctrine of the trinity? Or are you thinking of actual institutions? I wasn’t sure…

> The Council of Nicea (sp?) made the concept of the Trinity orthodoxy, but before that it was definitely not. My pastor says that as long as I accept Jesus as my savior, I can consider myself Christian.

Hmm… I find the historical development of doctrine more interesting than is probably healthy. I think historical tradition weighs very heavily on Christians. There is plenty of doctrine I find impossible to accept (I don’t have strong views about the Trinity but I can’t accept the virgin birth). However, I don’t think I’d want to throw away the traditions and risk ending up with an enfeebled theology. I’d rather find myself personally in a slightly heretical position within mainstream Christian theology. But there are exceptions: there are some doctrines I'd like to see given a good hard shake!

> And Ray can correct me if I'm wrong. But while I *think* that Mormons believe that Jesus is God of this world, they don't believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate God.
>
> And since Mormons *are* Christians, might it not be more accurate to compare their beliefs with the beliefs of *other* Christians? Rather than Christians?

I find this interesting. Is it generally accepted nowadays that Mormons are Christians? The last time I was in a discussion about it, the general feeling seemed to be that Mormons weren’t Christians because of the Mormon doctrine of God (and, by extension, the doctrine of Christ). But perhaps things have changed?


 

Re: Couldn't stop reading :-)

Posted by rayww on August 11, 2005, at 19:18:30

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-) » Dena, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2005, at 9:44:04

> And Ray can correct me if I'm wrong. But while I *think* that Mormons believe that Jesus is God of this world, they don't believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate God.
>
Perhaps you are confusing the Light of Christ with the Holy Ghost? The Light of Christ is just that. It fills the universe, yet dwells in our heart as well. It's what you can feel in the atmosphere, shedding light and knowledge on all of us. The Light of Christ is a universal free gift to everyone. It's everywhere. And it is real.

Mormons believe the Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead, only he is a personage of spirit.

 

Re: Couldn't stop reading :-)

Posted by Deneb on August 11, 2005, at 19:49:15

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-), posted by rayww on August 11, 2005, at 19:18:30

I really do want to learn about *all* religions. I will keep in mind the differences between them if that is an important thing to do.

Regarding evolution and intelligent design, I know a lot about the first and very little about the latter. Anyone care to clue me in?

Also, just a note:

Nothing in science can be proven, that is just how science is. There are proofs in mathematics, but math is not science...it is a tool, more akin to philosophy (actually I think math *IS* a type of philosophy).

When the word "theory" is used in science, this does not mean that it is likely to be untrue. This may be how it is used in everyday language, but science has a very specific meaning for the word. Theories have been tested countless times and have never been disproved. They cannot be "proven", but they have never been disproved. When it is useful to assume it to be as good as fact, theory becomes law. It makes it easier to explore other ideas when there are theories and laws behind them. Many people believe that the "theory" of evolution should actually be changed to the "law" of evolution...but because of certain controversies, the word "theory" remains.

Deneb

 

Re: Couldn't stop reading :-)

Posted by Deneb on August 11, 2005, at 20:35:35

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-), posted by Deneb on August 11, 2005, at 19:49:15

One important thing I forgot to mention about theories...

Theories are NOT simply conjectures that have never been disproved. Theories are based on observations. One cannot think of an idea that cannot be disproved to explain something in nature and call it a theory. Theories arise from countless testing of hypotheses and the observations and results of those tests.

P.S. I'm not comparing intelligent design and evolution because they cannot be compared with each other. One is science and one is not. This does not mean that one is right and one is wrong, it has to do with the definition of science.

Deneb

 

Re: Couldn't stop reading :-)

Posted by Deneb on August 11, 2005, at 20:51:37

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-), posted by Deneb on August 11, 2005, at 19:49:15

I made an error in my previous post.

>When it is useful to assume it to be as good as fact, theory becomes law. >
>

Theory doesn't really *become* law because laws are not explanations. Laws are *observations* that have always stayed the same test after test after test.

"Sound" theories are comprised of explanations based on observations that have become law.

Deneb

 

Re: doctrine etc... » Tamar

Posted by rayww on August 11, 2005, at 20:51:43

In reply to doctrine etc... » Dinah, posted by Tamar on August 11, 2005, at 16:28:38

> > And Ray can correct me if I'm wrong. But while I *think* that Mormons believe that Jesus is God of this world, they don't believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate God.
> >
> > And since Mormons *are* Christians, might it not be more accurate to compare their beliefs with the beliefs of *other* Christians? Rather than Christians?
>
> I find this interesting. Is it generally accepted nowadays that Mormons are Christians? The last time I was in a discussion about it, the general feeling seemed to be that Mormons weren’t Christians because of the Mormon doctrine of God (and, by extension, the doctrine of Christ). But perhaps things have changed?
>
I could get myself into trouble by answering this, but after what has been said, I think it is expected. We believe that Jesus is, and always has been in charge of this world, that he reports to and pleads our case before his (our) Father in Heaven, the one He prayed to, the one I pray to, the one he referred to as his Father which art in Heaven. We believe the Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead too, only he has a body of Spirit, rather than flesh and bone. His main role is to testify to our spirit that Jesus lives and is the Christ. The three are separate members of the Godhead, with individual and distinct roles, inseparably connected in purpose.

Other Christians think that because we believe this and other things about God, we are not Christian. We also believe we were spiritually created in Heaven before we received our physical body (birth), which makes us literally children of God with divine potential.

We believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible, you know the one who was resurrected, who ate food after? The one who claimed his own body, and glorified it, then was heaven bound in it. (what else could have happened to it? The tombe was empty) And the one who in the same manner as he went into heaven, has testified he will come back to earth again. I know that is true. Literally. Joseph Smith taught all about it, and he learned it from the Father and the Son face to face. Flesh and bone to flesh and bone, and the only ones to have been resurrected thus far to have bodies of flesh and bone are the righteous, (so it couldn't have been Satan in a resurrected flesh and bone body, it just couldn't have happened).

Mormons are Christian and so are other Christians Christian. No one has to believe the same as I do to be a Christian.

An intelligent God created the universe. Sure, it fell into place all right, but it was directed intelligently. All elements in the universe are obedient to God, except man. Why? Man was created in the image of God, Male "and Female" created he them. Man is capable of creating new thought, and of governing himself, because he is a child of God. We have inherited a divine center with great potential. We can choose to be obedient to God, and choose whatever else goes along with, or we can choose not to be. It is our very own choice, sad to say. And Satan does not want us to understand it. But God does.

The Holy Ghost can reveal the truth of all things to you. It is more powerful than the light of Christ. It is a greater witness than seeing. Many have seen and have not believed. Here are a few scriptures that explain the difference between the light of Christ and the Holy Ghost. http://scriptures.lds.org/gsl/lghtlght . enjoy.

 

Re: doctrine etc... » Tamar

Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2005, at 21:03:53

In reply to doctrine etc... » Dinah, posted by Tamar on August 11, 2005, at 16:28:38

I was raised in the Mormon church, and my family and of course my ancestors were Mormon. My mother's family crossed the plains in handcarts. I can testify that Mormons are Christians, because they consider themselves Christian, and they believe that Jesus is the Christ, and their Savior. I am not one to say that all beliefs need to be orthodox in order to claim Christianity, so I am more than willing to accept that Mormons are indeed Christian, although their beliefs in some areas differ from that of other Christian denominations.

As to the Trinity, I am personally not a Trinitarian, and consider myself a Jamesian Christian rather than a Pauline one. It's been a while since I studied the matter, but since the Council of Nicea was the origin of the rift between Eastern and Western Christianity, is it possible that Eastern Orthodox Christians have a different view of the Trinity?

I'll have to refresh my memory.

No doubt my views of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are influenced by my Mormon upbringing and my Primary School and Sunday School teachings. But I specifically asked my Methodist minister if one had to believe in the Trinity in order to be Methodist, and bless him, the dear man said no. As it turns out there was another non-Trinitarian in my Sunday School class. But she had the sense to keep it quiet until I had been publicly shamed and she came to speak to me privately.

 

Re: Sorry Dr. Bob

Posted by Deneb on August 11, 2005, at 21:08:11

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-), posted by Deneb on August 11, 2005, at 20:51:37

I don't think my discussion about the definition of "theory" fits on the faith board. You can redirect it to Social if that is more appropriate.

Sorry I got a little excited.

Deneb

 

Re: Couldn't stop reading :-) » rayww

Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2005, at 21:12:40

In reply to Re: Couldn't stop reading :-), posted by rayww on August 11, 2005, at 19:18:30

Probably my understanding of the Godhead is not as complete as it might be since I stopped attending the Mormon church (for purely personal reasons) about the time I would have gone to seminary.

My childhood understanding was that God was God, Jesus was his son, and the Holy Spirit was the spirit of God that spoke to us as the still small voice. And that the three were not one entity, but three. And that you only prayed to God the Father, but through Jesus Christ his son.

It wasn't until much much later, after college, that I came to understand that Jesus was considered to be the Jehovah (or was it Yahweh?) spoken of in the Old Testament.

And certainly they were united in purpose, but it was a much different view than the Trinitarian view of the Roman Catholic Church that I was also raised in.

Dr. Bob, I am not advocating any particular beliefs here, but merely trying to clarify my childhood understanding of Mormon beliefs. If you think it is inappropriate to clarify the basic tenets of the Mormon church on the Faith board, perhaps Ray would be kind enough to continue it by Babblemail so that I don't misinform people.

 

So much for speculation

Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2005, at 21:34:19

In reply to Re: doctrine etc... » Tamar, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2005, at 21:03:53

The Eastern Orthodox Church does believe in the Trinity. :)

On to more research.

 

Re: doctrine etc...

Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2005, at 21:54:14

In reply to Re: doctrine etc... » Tamar, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2005, at 21:03:53

Whoops. I didn't mean to mention my denomination. I figure they probably wouldn't want to claim me openly. :) And my beliefs certainly aren't their fault.

 

Re: doctrine etc...

Posted by Declan on August 11, 2005, at 22:44:35

In reply to Re: doctrine etc..., posted by Dinah on August 11, 2005, at 21:54:14

Unitarians don't believe in the Trinity, do they?

The development of doctrine over time is absolutely fascinating. I would love to learn about what went on at the Council of Nicea. All the stuff about person and substance. From the tiny bit I do know it always seemed as if the most reasonable (rational) doctrines were deemed heretical (Arianism was one I think). In this respect it seems similar to Marxism. Perhaps it has something to do with what can be most easily defended in a public forum.

Declan

 

no, no leave it here (nm) » Deneb

Posted by rayww on August 12, 2005, at 9:36:20

In reply to Re: Sorry Dr. Bob, posted by Deneb on August 11, 2005, at 21:08:11


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