Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 296991

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Ray, I miss my Mormon roots

Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 0:44:42

My forefathers and foremothers came across to Utah with the handcart companies. My earliest recollections are of Sunday School and Primary and Sacrament Meeting. And of being horribly embarassed by my mother during Fast and Testimony Meeting. :)

I sometimes think half the problems I have in my Protestant Sunday School come from the philosophy I absorbed growing up, since in many ways I see Mormon philosophy as closer to Judaism than Protestantism. I guess you can take the girl out of the Ward, but you can't take the Ward out of the girl.

I feel so betwixt and between sometimes. Raised both Catholic and Mormon, I never fit in with Catholic. I was almost, but not quite Mormon, and not quite Protestant either. And I suppose if I converted to Judaism, I'd be not quite Jewish either.

I wish I could find a spiritual home...

I wish I could feel the way I did when my Grandfather baptized me and I was confirmed, and I gave my first and only testimony.

Sorry, I guess I'm feeling a bit melancholy for things lost today.

 

Sorry, I was just too tired last night.

Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 7:25:24

In reply to Ray, I miss my Mormon roots, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 0:44:42

Please ignore above post.

 

Re: Sorry, I was just too tired last night. Dinah

Posted by rayww on January 6, 2004, at 10:17:28

In reply to Sorry, I was just too tired last night., posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 7:25:24

OK, I'll ignore, but let me just say that 8 is the age of accountability. A child at the age of 8 is capable of knowing.

 

Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots

Posted by rayww on January 6, 2004, at 15:53:39

In reply to Ray, I miss my Mormon roots, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 0:44:42

How can you remember back to your baptism? I can only remember that mine fell on Halloween, and I didn't feel like going out trick or treating afterward. Yours must have been a significant thing for you to retain a heightened awareness of the picture.

Which handcart companies?

Perhaps the reason you have been drawn to other religions has more to do with trying to escape your past than re-creating something lost.

Thanks for directing a moment my way. Even though you changed your mind afterward, it sparkled my day a speck.

 

Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots

Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 17:49:06

In reply to Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots, posted by rayww on January 6, 2004, at 15:53:39

I guess it made a big impression because my grandpa travelled from Utah to baptize me. I hadn't seen much of him since I left the farm at age 4, except when we visited summers. It made me realize what a momentous thing it was that my grandpa would make that journey. (He had dozens of grandkids). I don't recall my confirmation really, but I do remember the spiritual way I felt after and how I really wanted to give my testimony.

I didn't leave because I wanted to escape my past. I had always identified myself pretty closely as a Mormon. I was more or less told by my bishop that I couldn't decide what doctrines I believed, which was perfectly understandable. It is a religion based on divine revelation, and if there are parts that you can't make the leap of faith to believe, you really can't decide to just believe the rest. And it wasn't in me to lie and say I believed it all. So my only alternative was to join a church that allows me to agree to disagree. I don't know if it's in me to believe all the tenets of any one church. Or so my husband says. :)

I'm not sure which handcart companies my family came over with. A couple of the families have written books, and I think I'll try to find out. My mother might know the others. Both of my great great??? (I might be missing a great) grandmothers were second wives, so my mother's family was Mormon way back, and I'm not sure how many families are involved.

I really miss the church, and wish I could make that leap of faith. I have so many warm memories of the people and the lifestyle. I wish my son could grow up with it.

 

Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots

Posted by rayww on January 6, 2004, at 18:40:02

In reply to Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 17:49:06

You would have 16 great great grandparents, 32 great great great grandparents, and 2048 9th great grandparents. Thats one heck of a lot of grandfathers to be watching over their posterity, because where does it end? Apparently after you go back so many generations, the amount of grandparents gets fewer until it ends up 2, Adam and Eve. That's what the super genealogists are discovering. One more testimony that the Bible is true.

I believed all the doctrine as a child and thought I could make it through on belief alone without ever reading and studying myself. My mother read to me a lot, but I put very little effort into growing a testimony. My rude awakening came after I left home and realized there was more to it than that. First my father died, leaving me with few reserves. Second I had to learn the hard way that it took faith to live the principles, and in order to grow faith you had to read and then do what you believed. Read, believe, do. I have never doubted any of the doctrine, but with bipolar sometimes the wires get a little crossed and you don't quite know up from down.

Life is a never ceasing mystery puzzle, sometimes piecing together at the least opportune times, but always coming together in the end. There is reason for everything, rather, reason can be found and used in everything. All things can work toward good if we allow them to.

I think I'll try to find out which companies my folks were in too. There's tons from mine and hubby's side. I wonder if our folks knew each other. XXX if you want names

 

Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots

Posted by Dinah on January 8, 2004, at 21:05:20

In reply to Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots, posted by rayww on January 6, 2004, at 18:40:02

Sorry, Ray. I was a bit preoccupied for a day or two.

I looked up one of the families, and they came were attached to Amasa M. Lyman's company at Winter Quarters which wasn't a handcart company.

But another family was in the ill-fated James Willie Company. That one must be where the family legends come from.

http://www.inovion.com/~aewold/_Companies/hand_Handcart04.html

I can't see anything on the others, tho they were mostly English immigrants who ended up in Utah somehow. :) And all in the mid 1800's.

It's astonishing how much of my family history I'm locating on the web. I surely can find a scrap or two on the others.

I did some geneology a while back, and it was great fun. I ought to get into it again. Let's see. I suppose I could belong to the Mayflower Society, if they take offspring of plural marriage. And best of all to me, one of my ancestors traced back to Llewelyn the Great of Wales, who is not only one of my favorite historic figures, but it means I've a teensy bit of Welsh blood in me.

The other family book I found seems to be of my father's family - an autobiographical account of my grandfather's sister in law. It's pretty interesting as well.

What a fun walk down my ancestral road!

 

Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots

Posted by rayww on January 9, 2004, at 20:46:28

In reply to Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots, posted by Dinah on January 8, 2004, at 21:05:20

All I can say about genealogy is those who it comes easy for, and who enjoy it, should be doing it. I have heard there are a lot of resources on the net, but I have yet to find one (or look for one) other than www.familysearch.org. The Martin and Willie companies were the most tragic of all. Have you found their stories? It seems every single one of the survivors remained true to their faith. It took faith to make the trek, and by the time they arrived their faith was such that it could not be broken. Hard to fathom such faith could grow in tragedy. It takes that same kind of faith to live every principle of the Gospel. And it grows stronger as you do. I don't call this "blind" faith, I call it "active" faith.

I have in my office the picture of the handcart company pushing forward in a blizzard with angels depicted beside them helping to push along. To me that says we all have angels beside us helping us through the rough spots. Have you ever imagined going through your life with an unseen audience in the back ground? Eirie.

 

Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots rayww

Posted by Dinah on January 9, 2004, at 22:19:52

In reply to Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots, posted by rayww on January 9, 2004, at 20:46:28

I am a huge believer in active faith, perhaps because faith doesn't come easily to me.

I always think that God sends us help in the form of each other. I'm a bit rusty on the story of the handcart companies, though I read them just last night. Didn't volunteers from the Utah settlement come back to help them? And my ancestor who stayed at Winter Quarters. His calling while he was there was to help the others along their way. I sort of think of the board that way too. And other opportunities to support. That God sends people our way when we need them. Or that he calls them to help at least. So I feel a responsibility to listen for that call.

I guess I believe in a different sort of angel.

 

Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots

Posted by rayww on January 10, 2004, at 13:38:26

In reply to Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots rayww, posted by Dinah on January 9, 2004, at 22:19:52

> I am a huge believer in active faith, perhaps because faith doesn't come easily to me. I always think that God sends us help in the form of each other.

> I'm a bit rusty on the story of the handcart companies, though I read them just last night. Didn't volunteers from the Utah settlement come back to help them?
<
Yes, and I think the two young men who waded across the frozen water over and over again carrying people across, later died. How much more could we do for each other? Do we ever create a bridge over troubled waters for others to cross?

>>And my ancestor who stayed at Winter Quarters. His calling while he was there was to help the others along their way. I sort of think of the board that way too. And other opportunities to support. That God sends people our way when we need them. Or that he calls them to help at least. So I feel a responsibility to listen for that call.

<
Following in your father's footsteps? :)


> I guess I believe in a different sort of angel.


<
I believe in people angels too, but just yesterday something happened .............and I will never be convinced that it wasn't my dad giving my mom an anniversary gift. So, I believe in both kind of angels.

 

LOL, I'm Mormon too (kinda)

Posted by mattdds on January 16, 2004, at 16:03:03

In reply to Re: Ray, I miss my Mormon roots, posted by Dinah on January 8, 2004, at 21:05:20

Wow, never ventured over here to this corner of the site, but I was actually raised Mormon, too.

I don't know if this is the place to disclose this, but I don't really practice anymore for reasons which would probably not be supportive to mention here.

I do take pride in my heritage however, as the two of you do. Actually, I'm a direct descendent of Hyrum Smith. My grandfather always attended the Smith family reunions in Salt Lake City.

Last year, my wife and I (both agnostic now), even took a trip to upstate New York to see the Hill of Cumorah pageant and all the attractions. Fun stuff.

I have (mostly) pleasant memories of Mormonism.

Respectfully,

Matt

 

Please expand rayww

Posted by 64Bowtie on February 23, 2004, at 17:32:53

In reply to Re: Sorry, I was just too tired last night. Dinah, posted by rayww on January 6, 2004, at 10:17:28

> OK, I'll ignore, but let me just say that 8 is the age of accountability. A child at the age of 8 is capable of knowing.

Ray,

Please expand what is different from age 7 as you see it. Since every word of the phrase, "A child at the age of 8 is capable of knowing", according to Piaget and others, would remain abstract for 99% of all 8 year olds. I don't see the change you allude to, (but that's just me).

I see 7 and 8 year olds knowing only an abstraction of the conscepts we pass onto them measured as feelings in their gut. I'm curious what you have read or know from experience. I am aware of their ability from age 7 to perform simple if-then reasoning.

If-and-if-then makes no sense to them. Artificial intelligence can be the results from nearly infinite numbers of if-and-if-and-if clauses strung together, yet the computer never really "knows". Help me with this, pleas?

What do 8 year olds say is different about their experience now from what they did as 7 year olds? I was never the mother, always the father, so I trust your perspective as a mom.

Rod


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