Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 227349

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re: your post re: The Four Noble Truths » habbyshabit

Posted by lil' jimi on July 2, 2003, at 16:06:09

In reply to Re: The Four Noble Truths » lil' jimi, posted by habbyshabit on July 1, 2003, at 4:02:36

hi habby!

i am honored that you have favored our Buddhist thread with your auspicious post!
it would have been hard for you to have made me more grateful or ... happier ... ...
... ... your contribution is ... ... incandescent !
and very far from a rebuttal ... ... so much more a positive efficacious reflection ... ... and a true pleasure!
..... i find your insights and considerations to be treasures!
which is to say, i liked it! .... thank you very much!

i intend to give a proper and more thorough response .... soon (?), i hope ...
.... but i wanted to acknowledge your post and let you know how much i have appreciated it.

(and now i must hope i shall be worthy of your kind thoughtfulness!)

thanking you for your patience in advance,
~ jim

 

re: your post re: The Four Noble Truths » lil' jimi

Posted by habbyshabit on July 3, 2003, at 0:23:36

In reply to re: your post re: The Four Noble Truths » habbyshabit, posted by lil' jimi on July 2, 2003, at 16:06:09

Dear Jim,

I'm quite honored by your post and look forward to continuing this conversation!

May many blessings rain down on your would,
Habby

 

re: The Four Noble Truths » habbyshabit

Posted by lil' jimi on July 3, 2003, at 12:13:39

In reply to Re: The Four Noble Truths » lil' jimi, posted by habbyshabit on July 1, 2003, at 4:02:36

> Hi Jim,

hi Habby!

> Your revision of the Four Noble Truths for the CNS challenged was interesting and brought up a number of thoughts.

excellent ... !

> First let me say that while I am not a Buddhist, I have studied a lot of the Tibetan variety and am a fan of the Dalai Lama, Chogyam Trungpa, and the Karmapa, what an amazing story his is.

i am a Buddhist, although my Buddhism may not be any officially recognized orthodoxy ... ... or it may .... i have devoted most of my study to the writings of Nagarjuna and his interpretation of dependent origination as well as the Tibetan schools of Buddhism ... ... i revere the Karmapa, Chogyam Trungpa and His Holiness The Dalai Lama ... ... as well as Gautama Siddhartha ... and especially Bodhisattva Manjushri .

> I also read your post with the article recounting the studies that showed Buddhists as more serene in general. The theory being stated that it must be the meditation giving this group of people such an easy going mindset.

... indeed that does seem to be the implication being focused upon and promoted ... ...

> So...what comes first? The neurotransmitter deficiency or the psychological suffering. If I meditate, do I change my neurology and so my psychology - or do I need a drug first to get my chemistry on target so meditation will work better?

excellent questions!

certainly in the naturalistic scientific view, we would look at this study and have to ask:

“Are neurotransmitter deficiency and psychological suffering co-related variables?”
and the article suggests the study answers this with a conclusive “Yes”,
but given that co-relation does not prove causation, then the scientist would ask:

“Do neurotransmitter deficiency and psychological suffering have a casual relationship?”
and the article seems to say the answer to this questions is “Yes” also .... ....
which should bring our putative scientist to your chicken-or-the-egg question:

“Which causes which?”
... i think that the implicit materialist presumptions in scientific naturalism would mitigate in favor the “harder” states causing the “softer” ones, i.e. neurotransmitters causing psychology ... ... which would ignore the possibility of ‘downward’ causation, which you have inquired about ... after all ...

1) “Why Can’t psychological states cause neurotransmitter effects?”
... and by extension, 2) “Can psychological suffering (“PS”) cause neurotransmitter deficits (“ND”)?”
... and for as little value as i assign it, my own opinion is that 1) they can and do and 2) yes; PS can cause ND ...
... but, i don’t believe this can eliminate ND from being considered as causing PS ...

Alternatively, looking at these variables from a broader, more non-dualistic perspective can bring a more Buddhist view to bear.
Nagarjuna teaches us that everything arises from mutually interdependent co-origination, together as a vast woven web of interactions ... ... the experience of cause and effect are the consequence of the limited particular perspective of the self.

... which is Not to say that cause and effect are not useful parts of worldly practical analysis ...

you have asked:
... “If I meditate, do I change my neurology and so my psychology?” (aka “first question”)
... "Or do I need a drug first to get my chemistry on target so meditation will work better?” (aka “second question”)
... (i was ecstatic when i read these questions! ... they are so practical ... so relevant! .... so interesting!)

... evidence suggests how much the medical establishment in the west answers ‘Yes’ to the second question to the neglect of the first question ...
... yet we can see (have experienced?) that the answer to your first question must also be ‘Yes’ ... in as much as meditation has been shown (by other studies) to be of psychological benefit and in as much as the study in the article seeks to validate this theory ... ... not to mention the evidence from first hand experience ... ...

... .. i would be inclined to answer your first question, “Yes”
and
your second question with , “It depends on the state of the individual’s neurochemistry.”
..... ..... and even with these answers i would be equivocal:
... given bad enough neurochemistry, deficient enough neurotransmitters, a patient may well be incapable of beneficial meditation and this would compromise my “Yes” to your first question (and compel a “Maybe”) and force an unequivocal “Yes” to your second question ... ... i believe ... ...
... and more than a little practical experience, as well as reading the powerful anecdotal accounts here at pBabble, support this approach as well ... ...

..for my part, i would have us look at both sides of these questions case-by-case .... ... if only because the situational influences can easily overwhelm any metaphysical ‘certainties’ .... ... i would not want to have to subscribe to a mutually exclusion of the answers to your two question, either ...

... if only because psychology and neurology also originate interdependently, so that it may (should?) be possible to use both approaches and be mutually reinforcing ... we might hope ...

> What the author of that study didn't mention is that Buddhist tenets are larger then just a meditation practice. Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism, is a psychology in it's own right, and much more successful, it would seem, then our western psychology.

... point well taken! ... it opens the consideration to the psychological/neurological benefits of Buddhism beyond just meditation ... Buddhism as a way of life and as a cosmology may be salubrious independent of the healthy effects of meditative practices ... ... there is much missing information in the Reuters article ...

> The web site nalandabodhi.org calls Tibetan Buddhism a science of mind. There is much more to finding that inner peace then sitting on a pillow and saying mantras all day. It's a taming of the 'wild horse' that is our thought processes.

... excellent point! ... so that would be http://www.nalandabodhi.org .... right?... an excellent site

> Also, regarding your first revised Truth - "Psychological suffering exists". To that I just wanted to add, ALL suffering is psychological. Suffering is only in the mind, including physical pain. We increase of diminish that suffering with the thoughts we have about it.

... “Yea, verily ...” ... i could not agree more ... and it makes my point that The First Noble Truth is the same as my first noble CNS truth ... ..

> While psychological suffering always has a cause, it is not always about dysfunctional neurotransmitters. Sometimes those transmitters are doing just what they are supposed to be doing, reminding us of our environment.

... and another point very well taken ... thank you!

in my (small) view, The Four Noble Truths imply the practical view of causation,
whereas Gautama Siddhartha alluded and Nagarjuna articulated that suffering also originates interdependently ... ...

.. ... in my attempt at ‘4 noble CNS truths’, it seems i was avoiding the pejorative phrase “mental illness” and reached out to “psychological suffering” ... ... which you have shown me is too broad ... ... i still do not like “mental illness”, but i would offer it as being “about neurotransmitter dysfunction”, or at least more so than “psychological suffering” ... ... maybe?

> Just some thoughts. This isn't meant to be a rebuttal.

... .. you know how i feel about your thoughts .. .. ... and i thank you again!

> May peace of mind find you where you sit,
> Habby

.. ... .. and may peace of mind find our neurotransmitters harmonious ... ...

~ jim

P.S. i have e-mailed the professors quoted in the article and, so far, prof ekman has directed me to prof. davidson at the univ. of wisconsin ... .. . i hope to share any further information i may recieve. ... ~ j


 

re: The Four Noble Truths » lil' jimi

Posted by habbyshabit on July 5, 2003, at 10:45:05

In reply to re: The Four Noble Truths » habbyshabit, posted by lil' jimi on July 3, 2003, at 12:13:39

Jim,

Yours was a very thoughtful and well constructed post. I felt very heard and respect for my point of view. For that I am deeply grateful. It's wonderful to find a Buddhist friend again. When I lived in Wyoming I had several. I love talking Dharma.

You mentioned Manjusri, he is a favorite of mine as well as the Amitaba (sp?) Bodhisattva. Seems we have a lot in common, no? The web site you posted is the one I was referring to. I've learned a great deal there and would love to meet The Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche some day.

I lived in Boulder, CO during the years when The Venerable Trungpa Rinpoche was there and conducting business at Naropa. I was not THAT interested at that time to seek out an audience with him, or at least be in an audience that he was teaching. I did read "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" several times during my time in Boulder. In 1994 I was able to spend a work/study weekend at the Rocky Mountain Dharma Center, now called some thing the like The Rocky Mountain Shambala Center. I had moved to Fort Collins, CO and it was not a far drive to their compound. The Stupa was still in the process of being built. The Shinto Shrine, that Trungpa had brought Japanese Shinto Priests over from Japan to supervise the building of, was complete and boy did I have a high time of it there.

I went that particular weekend because a very high lama from eastern Tibet (sorry I forgot his name ), who had to ride out of his village by horse and then catch a ride by car to the a small landing strip and then to a major Airport to get to America. He spoke no English. He was going to perform the Bhuddist Vow ceremony. At the time I was certain that I was ready to become a REAL Buddhist and take my vows.

As it turned out, my Jewish Soul just could not do it. I know there are quite a few Jewish Buddhists. Someone coined the phrase JuBu there are so many. For me, I just could not give up the privilege of calling myself a Jew. I'm a very secular Jew, but a Jew none the less.

It was a spectacular weekend and one I'll never forget for sure.

I'd love to address the chicken and egg thing some more. I have to re-read your post and give it some thought. We're going camping tonight and there is lots still to be done just to get out of the house and up Wolverine Canyon. So - stay tuned!

Thanks so much for your interest in communicating with me. I am so honored and thrilled!!!!

Till then,
Happy Trails under Cool Shade Trees!
Habby

 

Re: The Four Noble Truths » habbyshabit

Posted by temmie on August 8, 2003, at 14:38:17

In reply to Re: The Four Noble Truths » lil' jimi, posted by habbyshabit on July 1, 2003, at 4:02:36

Regarding your comment:

"and the Karmapa, what an amazing story his is ..."

Where can I find reading on this?

Off to search the net ....

 

re: Karmapa » temmie

Posted by lil' jimi on August 8, 2003, at 15:09:33

In reply to Re: The Four Noble Truths » habbyshabit, posted by temmie on August 8, 2003, at 14:38:17

hi Temmie!

> Regarding your comment:
>
> "and the Karmapa, what an amazing story his is ..."
>
> Where can I find reading on this?
>
> Off to search the net ....

... did you find these?
http://www.karmapa-issue.org/

http://www.kagyu.org/

http://www.kagyuoffice.org/

http://www.nalandabodhi.org/karmapa_news.html

i like the last one ...

bliss,
~ jim

 

Ahimsa

Posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 9:14:34

In reply to Re: The Four Noble Truths, posted by lil' jimi on June 12, 2003, at 15:53:59

The Word of the Day for Aug 14 is:

ahimsa \uh-HIM-sah\ noun :
the Hindu and Buddhist doctrine of refraining from harming any living being

Example sentence:
Mahatma Gandhi directed his followers to adhere to the principles of ahimsa, insisting that even people fighting for their rights need to honor life and do no harm.

Did you know?
"Ahimsa" has been part of the English language since at least 1875, but the word didn't gain popularity in the English-speaking world until the first half of the 20th century, when it was recognized as an important component of the teachings of Mahatma Gandhi. "Ahimsa" comes from a Sanskrit word meaning "noninjury," and Gandhi's policy of nonviolent protest played a crucial role in the political and social changes that eventually led to India's independence from Britain in 1947.

© 2003 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

 

Re: Ahimsa, etc. Update and More

Posted by Temmie on August 16, 2003, at 14:06:09

In reply to Ahimsa, posted by lil' jimi on August 15, 2003, at 9:14:34

I used to know some people who started a spiritual sort of community above Mount Tom in the Eugene area ... named Ahimsa. Wonder how they're doing?

How are the rest of you?

I am home from a vacation trip up to Lake Superior. I have layed in the sun, worshipped in the waters, gathered rocks so old only they know the history of times long past ... and loaded up my car with treasures .... Stones, that is, not jewels. My stones, my beautiful stones. I am so happy to have such ancient objects, many untouched by human hands since God knows when.

I had a long, tearful conversation with Paul in which I finally told him everything (I know what you're doing ... sob sob ... I'm not stupid ... more sobbing ... I've lived with a coke addict in the past ... more sobs ... I'm afraid you're going to get killed, etc. I was standing in an open phone booth outside a Citgo station upstate. Some poor woman came to give "this" poor woman a hug ("God bless you"), and on I sobbed and cried.) At the end, Paul had finally stopped denying he was using crack ....

I don't know what good all this did, other than to let him know the jig was up, to share from an open heart, and let all that stuff pour forth .... To be honest ... just to have been honest, instead of dodging the subject -- good grief -- it was a major cleansing, and one I am still mystified over. I did not leave anything unsaid.

I am still grieving. I am still, sadly, involved. I am working to detach and let go, while holding fast with the other hand, I guess. I can't help it. I'm doing the best I can ... will keep going to meetings, keep chanting (thank you, Jim!), will keep praying, keep attempting to look up, lift up and move forward ....

And hope for the best.

Thank you all for abiding my SLOW road to recovery.

Temmie

 

re: Ahimsa and more

Posted by lil' jimi on August 17, 2003, at 3:09:38

In reply to Re: Ahimsa, etc. Update and More, posted by Temmie on August 16, 2003, at 14:06:09

hi temmie,

i haven't praised you enough for attending you meetings ... ... their importance can not be overemphasized ...

your efforts in your struggle are to be commended ... you have made a brave start ...

do this:

sit comfortably
relax
close your eyes
breathe even, calming, relaxed breaths
let tension leave

observe your aura
do any cleaning/clearing
then
spin your aura inward
drawing it into your spine
pull the energy to the top of your head

operating from the top of your head
visualize
at about eye level and arm's lenght
a knife made of light
radiant and transparent
it glows with energy you can hear and feel
take it by it's handle
it feels warm to the touch

now use the knife
with slow but steady passes in front of your chest
cut any ties that bind
cables, tubing, wires, tendrils ...

feel the release of tightness and tension especially in your chest

once you feel completely disconnected from any ties
put the knife back from where it came from
it will be there next time

gently push any extraeous objects out of your heart

now use your healing light
to treat any tenderness
and to
keep your aura and chakras clean

should any debris have accumulated around you
carefully gather this into a pile
and burn it with your light energy

breathe deeeply
open your eyes

om ah ra pa cha na dhi

repeat this exercise
daily
more often as time allows

pamper yourself
as reward
for taking your 12 steps
and
exercising the wisdom
of disengaging
from paul

the bodhisattvas and dakinis
know you and watch over you
manjushri protects you
honor manjushri
by protecting yourself

you are loved

take care of yourself,
~ jim

 

Light Work - Lil' Jimi

Posted by Temmie on August 17, 2003, at 12:40:59

In reply to re: Ahimsa and more, posted by lil' jimi on August 17, 2003, at 3:09:38

Jim ~

Thank you again. I am struggling mightily, but feel with the forces of Heaven behind me, I am -- somehow -- still feeing blessed (and will be sailing with the wind soon). Thank you for the Light exercise. I was working with my aura this morning (first time I've actually gotten around to working with the spiraling/opening/closing exercise you sent so long ago), and found when spiraling "in," my aura wanted to spin to the left. I thought ... hmmmm ... "righty-tighty, lefty loosie" and got to thinking about clockwise versus going "against" the clock, and tried to change it, without success. Silly me! If my aura wants to spin in a protective motion to the left, and open to the right -- who am I to argue? (!)

Paul was thrown out of Andrea's last night, and despite my great ... tearful ... I'm afraid you're going to get killed ... more tears ... more opening of my heart and words, etc. -- he is still using.

He's just a very sick man.

I am expecting a call ... not anytime soon. Maybe today. Maybe three days. I ... feel ... I've turned some kind of corner. (And so has he.) I am still grieving ... but trying to look at this as a time of travailing in birth ... or the decay before regeneration, etc. -- a time of important soul growth and passage. I hope it isn't long before I can know so, and this experience -- but for the wisdom its brought -- will be behind me.

In the meantime, I wanted to ask where you get your Light exercises from, and whether you see auras? I do ... from time to time. Obviously, of late, I have not been seeing anything clearly, let alone the rarified realms, but I think with this exercise, I'll be back on my feet soon ... with my spiritual sight back in place ....

Again, thank you, dear one. Your words of comfort and assurance about those very "forces of Heaven" behind me ... have given me great courage and brought me much solace ....

In the Name of all that is Good!

Temmie

 

re: Karmapa » lil' jimi

Posted by temmie on August 17, 2003, at 14:17:05

In reply to re: Karmapa » temmie, posted by lil' jimi on August 8, 2003, at 15:09:33

Oh Dear. I am so needy today. I keep checking the boards here for any notes from anyone .... The Kayuga school is the school where Paul took his vows. Karma Jentsin (sp?) is the name he was given. Such a long, long time ago now .... Please, for those with any energies left to give -- pray for peace and Light.

Our planet, and our poor suffering brothers and sisters ... all of us here ... we so need peace and Light.

Thank you, Lil' Jimi! A former equestrian (and in desparate need of something *fun*), I'm going to see "Seabiscuit" today.

Much love, Temmie

 

re: Light Work

Posted by lil' jimi on August 17, 2003, at 14:30:00

In reply to Light Work - Lil' Jimi, posted by Temmie on August 17, 2003, at 12:40:59

my dear ms Temmster-eeny,

your writing very much encourages us that you will persevere ... ... but it is clear that this relationship's failure to come to its end will put that at risk ... ... and that these forces, more than the celestial ones, have more influence over these events ... ... all of which makes your meetings vitally important ... ...

... i appreciate your wisdom in accepting your astral body's own design's orientation ... ... one best try things as gently as possible ... ... ... once you're accostumed to operating your aura, you'll want to practice spinning you aura in and out at will during regular everyday consciousness and then in social situations ... .. ... once you feel proficient, you will be able maintain protective control all the time ... ... all in good time ... practice leads the way ... ... baby steps .... ....

when i was young i was in a meditation society for 8 years ... ... the practice originated with with sikh masters of the tantra ... ... but what i have offered has been from my experience of the last 20 years of my application of these techniques to these astral aspects of our everyday world ... ... and you have enough mystical vision to grasp these tools and apply them to your benefit ... ...

... ... protecting yourself is the primary exercise ... so that you may have the power to regulate your environment's influence over you

... ... this newer practice is so you may disengage from the older influences which persist by using your energy against you ... ...

... ... as long as you, yourself are not dominating the forces that influence your environment, and as long as you are compromised by these influences, there will be limits on how manjushri and his allies can help you ... ... saving us from our selves is one of the very great challenges all bodhisattvas accept ... ... we must try to make it easier for them ... ...

... ... though saying the chant does help

om ah ra pa cha na dhi

... ... and manjushri does coordinate with every benefical spiritual influence working for you ... ... you are blessed to have so many ...

bless you ...
~ jim

 

re: ((((((( temmie ))))))) om ah ra pa che na dhi

Posted by lil' jimi on August 17, 2003, at 15:16:14

In reply to re: Karmapa » lil' jimi, posted by temmie on August 17, 2003, at 14:17:05

fear not lil' temmster ... ...


> Oh Dear. I am so needy today. I keep checking the boards here for any notes from anyone .... The Kayuga school is the school where Paul took his vows. Karma Jentsin (sp?) is the name he was given. Such a long, long time ago now ....
>

... yet another in an exceedingly odd series of coicidences, all of which are probably trivial randomness .... .... of course, the kargyutpas are a highly revered tradition ... ... paul's example shows that no one's safe from their own efforts at condemnation ... ... and that the bodhisattvas may only do so much ... ... and they want to save you ... ...

>Please, for those with any energies left to give -- pray for peace and Light.
>
> Our planet, and our poor suffering brothers and sisters ... all of us here ... we so need peace and Light.
>
> Thank you, Lil' Jimi! A former equestrian (and in desparate need of something *fun*), I'm going to see "Seabiscuit" today.
>
> Much love, Temmie

enjoy the movie ... we want to hear your review ... ... have good fun ... ... when you may find yourself "needing" pBabble and no one's back yet ... practice your practice ... at least once a day at first to develop a rhythym ... a vibration .. ... a wave ...

take care of temmie,
~ jim

 

Broken Horses/Broken Hearts/Travails of the Spirit » lil' jimi

Posted by Temmie on August 17, 2003, at 18:47:54

In reply to re: ((((((( temmie ))))))) om ah ra pa che na dhi , posted by lil' jimi on August 17, 2003, at 15:16:14

I did not find this movie, "Seabiscuit," as hopeful or promising, or as uplifting as everyone who's seen it has exclaimed. I know horses. I've owned a number of race horses. The relationship between jockey "Red" (forgot the last name already) and Seabiscuit was portrayed as carefully as one might in a Hollywood rendition (without slipping into the realms of sap or unbelievability) .... It is a very real, powerful, and dynamic relationship to heal a broken horse ... to become at one, through your voice, hands, weight, legs, seat, movement, etc. ... through your very presence -- to bring a horse, especially a bruised and broken horse -- into balance and trust. It's quite remarkable. I hope I'll be able to experience it again one day.

Of course, the movie was more about relationships -- and it's a lovely film .... Tobey Maguire, Jeff Bridges, Chris Cooper, William H. Macy ... I love them all -- but I found "Adaptations" (Chris Cooper won an Acadamy Award for Best Supporting Actor) much more stirring -- and, in general -- wounded and grieving myself, I'm not much able to comment on anything other than my own sad condition.

Jimi -- I am grateful and touched to have not one, but two (!) notes from you. Thank you very much. I've printed these out to save and reread, as I do many of the messages I've received. I continue to ask for guidance, healing, relief and release -- while at the same time, praying for Paul's well-being, wondering how much time he has (and mentally preparing for his funeral).

This is a man who has not chosen life, and ... it's just too sad. Such a sad commentary on the human condition.

The movie resulted in my missing a meeting, but I'm going to hang up and call my sponsor -- and I'm going to work, as best as I'm able, to rise to the occasion of being the best mother I can be ... and ... to just do and be the best I can ... to change those things I can (to accept those things I can't) ... and to carry on.

Again, my gratitude to all who have followed this sad journey ... and my dearest, deepest thanks to those who have shared so much of their hearts. Habby, Fallsfall, Mercury, Dena, Ray, Jimi ... Your presence brings honor to God's work on this planet, and I am ever indebted to your assistance in sending Light my way.

XXX, Temmie

 

aura » lil' jimi

Posted by rayww on August 17, 2003, at 23:45:49

In reply to re: Light Work , posted by lil' jimi on August 17, 2003, at 14:30:00

whoa, gotta inject some questions here if you don't mind. You talk of manipulating your aura, going in and out of it. Might this be compared to countenance? And - - pardon my naivete but doesn't everyone see auras surrounding other people and objects? I see them but don't understand them. What of the different colors? What does a blue aura mean, what about a thick bright yellow/white one? Why are some that you think should be large, actually very thin? And why is it easier to see them on some days than on others? Why do they suddenly surprise you when you aren't looking for them?

You don't have to answer all these questions, but they are the ones I have about auras.

 

Re: Broken Horses/Broken Hearts/Travails of the Spirit » Temmie

Posted by rayww on August 18, 2003, at 0:39:35

In reply to Broken Horses/Broken Hearts/Travails of the Spirit » lil' jimi, posted by Temmie on August 17, 2003, at 18:47:54

My husband and I saw Seabiscuit last night too. I share your opinion of it, but I would go to it a second time, mainly to figure out who everyone actually was. It seems whenever someone tells me a show is really good I am dissapointed in it because my expectations are too high. However, we were forced into seeing Gygli because we were too late for any other ones, and in spite of the horrible reviews, we quite liked it, once we survived the horrible language in the first few minutes. Perhaps it was a movie that you would see into what wasn't portayed depending upon your own personal background and experience.

People's religious perceptions are greatly influenced in the same way. You've likely seen the ripe/rape demo when a group is divided into two and one is shown pictures of fruit and vegetables, while the other half is shown pictures of abuse and torture. Then when asked to fill in the blank of r_pe, one chooses "i" while the other group "a".

If you are fed a lot of false ideas about a certain religion, and then investigate that religion, you will find your own perception of that religion in your investigation of it. If you enter the investigation with an open mind and pure intent, it might be an altogether different religious experience for you. Makes one wonder if there is reality in the perception of things, or is one's perception the only reality.

 

Re: aura » rayww

Posted by Temmie on August 18, 2003, at 11:34:33

In reply to aura » lil' jimi, posted by rayww on August 17, 2003, at 23:45:49

whoa, gotta inject some questions here if you don't mind. You talk of manipulating your aura, going in and out of it. Might this be compared to countenance?

***No. According to my Webster's "pocket dictionary," "countenance" refers to: (1) facial expression; (2) the face; visage; (3) approval; support.

Working with one's aura or Light is nothing more (or less) than working with one's ki, chi, life energy, whatever you care to call it -- working with one's life energy. The "in Him was Light, and His Light was the life of (wo)men." The glue, the goods, the stuff that fuels our essence. The presence of the Father within. The energy that sustains our existence. You know what I'm talking about.

And - - pardon my naivete but doesn't everyone see auras surrounding other people and objects?

***No.

I see them but don't understand them. What of the different colors? What does a blue aura mean, what about a thick bright yellow/white one? Why are some that you think should be large, actually very thin? And why is it easier to see them on some days than on others? Why do they suddenly surprise you when you aren't looking for them?
You don't have to answer all these questions, but they are the ones I have about auras.

***I don't see auras at all time, either, and thank God whenever I do. When you meet someone who's carrying a great deal of Light (i.e., they're working with the Light, full of love, or whatever), I believe they appear a little brighter than others. In fact, a LOT brighter! As for colors, I don't know. Maybe you could do some research online and let us know? There are books that have been written about this .... There are myriad theories. Some associate pink with the Blessed Mother or Goddess energy, others associate blue with Christ energies .... I don't know -- I'm just always so touched, and feel so blessed, when I see the protective cushion of God's Love, Light, and Life we exist within. If only we knew ... and worked with it ... etc. etc. etc. -- which I why I so love Lil' Jimi's exercises. We do know! We can work with it. We can make it grow -- and we can pray that all whom we meet and come into contact with are touched by the presence of God's love, lifted up into higher consciousness, and healed.

Welcome to others who care to share their thoughts and experiences!

In Light!
Temmie

 

re: auras

Posted by lil' jimi on August 18, 2003, at 13:55:03

In reply to aura » lil' jimi, posted by rayww on August 17, 2003, at 23:45:49

hi ray double w!

> whoa, gotta inject some questions here if you don't mind.
>

welcome!
please, inject away ...
don't mind at all.

>You talk of manipulating your aura, going in and out of it. Might this be compared to countenance?
>

i was offering temmie my guidance so she could make her aura go in and out of her, but you have the idea ...

not to contradict our kind temmie too much, i think they can be compared
... ... if we may take "countenance" as being
... the visage of one's emotional composure or as
... the "indication of one's mood, emotion, character"
... ... which may be interpreted as
... one's astral status ...
... then i would say, in that sense, it is very comparable to 'countenance' ... and it is very comparable to "halo" ... a very close relative ...

> And - - pardon my naivete but doesn't everyone see auras surrounding other people and objects?
>

no reason to pardon your candor there, ... ... we'd expect most folks would be naive about auras, et al.
... ... but no, everyone does not see auras ... ...
... i do not see auras
... i can make auras work for me through visualization, but my preception is not the direct sensory intuition of seers, which can be substantial realities for them ...
... my preception is more dream-like and even though mine is much more the i-made-this-up sort of vision, it works effectively and provides its own validation ...

... you see auras better than i do
... and i dare say most folks do not see them at all
... and of the few who do see them, few see them as well as you ...

>I see them but don't understand them. What of the different colors? What does a blue aura mean, what about a thick bright yellow/white one? Why are some that you think should be large, actually very thin? And why is it easier to see them on some days than on others? Why do they suddenly surprise you when you aren't looking for them?
>

ray, it is very easy to understand how you have come to have these questions ... ... you are having significant valuable astral experiences which have their own spiritual importance ... ...
... and you have had no one talk to you about them ... ...
... i'd be asking questions too ...
... i can not pretend to have all of these answers ... ... i'm not that adept ... ... i do know a few things i will share, but there is a lot more to know, and we need to find an experienced adept seer for you ...

... here's what little i know ...
... ... colors are emotions ... you are seeing folks feelings, their attitude as colors in their aura ... their countenance ... i beleive that with your intuition and with practice, you may be able to train yourself about which colors signify which emotions ... ...

... ... this is level of preceptiveness beyond me completely ... whereas you can see colors, my acuity is merely tactile, much more gross ... you have the blessing of the benefit and risks of being much more sensitive to things spiritual ...

... ... my analysis of the colors is simplistic compared to an adept seer's, but as elementary as it is, it works for me ...
... 1) the best color is no color ... ... clear or white or silver are better than any of those rainbow types .... because (here you are to insert your own analysis of my theory) the emotions *color* our perceptions ... and our preceptions come through our aura ...
... 2) as for those colors your seeing in folks' auras, i offer my simplistic interpretive models ... ...
... ... a) flame colors: red is hot ; blue is cool ...
... ... b) rainbow colors:
red; orange; yellow; green; blue; violet; indigo ... ... going from higher energy to lower energy
... ... c) common useage for colors: anger is purple ... or red ; envy is green; yellow is fear;

my preception is so low i rarely get beyond a) and c) has never been an interpretive tool for me ... although others i know have used it ... ... c) is more like poetic interpretation ...

> You don't have to answer all these questions, but they are the ones I have about auras.
>

thanks ... couldn't answer them all if i tried and i tried ... ... am trying ... !

... i have been told that the condition of an aura (biggness, smallness, thinness) are indicative of the health and fitness of the person's spiritual condition analagous to the physical health we would interpret from seeing a person's physical body ... for instnce, a very thin aura may be indicative of a person who is spiritually starved ...

... ... your variation of preceptiveness undoubtedly comes from the variations of your astral composure ... which may be a function of your symptomology, your medication, your neurochecmistry, your ... fill in the blank ...

and i offer this about your "suddenly surprise you" observation: i have much better success visualizing when i'm observing at an angle ... when i'm viewing something from off-axis ... when i'm using more of my peripheral vision ... especially, out of the corner of my eye(s) ...
... ... here's my theory, auras seem, manytimes, to know when we are looking at them and they want to come out more when we are not looking at them ... ... some may want attention, but looking dirctly makes them disappear, Except if they can catch that corner of our eye, they (sometimes) see a way to ... what?...maybe safely? ... show themselves
... and this can startle us because it can be so jack-in-the-box like ...
... ... a lot of theory (my non-seer theory) there ...

... ... i am very much the blind man leading the sighted here, but i'll tell what i have found with my hands ... ... you can tell me what you see ... .. ...

... hope this helps more than confuses!

bless you,
~ jim

 

re: auras » lil' jimi

Posted by temmie on August 18, 2003, at 14:46:16

In reply to re: auras, posted by lil' jimi on August 18, 2003, at 13:55:03

Good job, Jim! Nice work ....

Om Ah Ra Pa Tsa Nah Dhi!

T.

 

re: auras:: Thank you, Temm-ster! you're good too! (nm)

Posted by lil' jimi on August 18, 2003, at 15:59:12

In reply to re: auras » lil' jimi, posted by temmie on August 18, 2003, at 14:46:16

 

Re: Broken Horses/Broken Hearts/Travails of the Spirit » rayww

Posted by Temmie on August 18, 2003, at 20:04:36

In reply to Re: Broken Horses/Broken Hearts/Travails of the Spirit » Temmie, posted by rayww on August 18, 2003, at 0:39:35

Good thoughts here, RayWW ... not sure what to add, other than to note the (what I thought was) very interesting "perception" vs. "reality" series of advertisements Volkswagon ran years ago. I was working in advertising at the time, and the publication "Ad Week" was always a fave.

That said ... hmmmm. I'm apparently too lost in the mist (and way too off track) to entertain discussion here .... Thanks for writing, though!

Temmie.

 

re: auras » lil' jimi

Posted by rayww on August 18, 2003, at 21:13:04

In reply to re: auras, posted by lil' jimi on August 18, 2003, at 13:55:03

Thankyou for that training. If I knew where to go for more information I would probably study it further (farther?)

As for seers, I think we may have a different understanding of what a seer is, but that's ok.

I really understand what you wrote, especially what you said about vision, and how you look at things through your p vision, or from the corner of your eye, or when you're looking at something but not looking at it, etc.

You may wish to debate this, but I think there are gifts to be found in some of the disorders that are very real, this being one of them.

I'm almost embarrassed to admit this but I have been told by many that I have a gift of sorts, some say I am the most spiritual person they know, others note that I seem to know what they are thinking before they think it, funny stuff like that. I don't really believe it. I have too many problems in my channelling to keep the communicaiton clear. Oops wrong word for this congregation.

I have issues and personal things I have to work very hard on to do with the disorder. Life in normal lane has never been easy for me, a person who loves to swing in the outer limits of thought and fear.

 

Re: Broken Horses/Broken Hearts/Travails of the Spirit » Temmie

Posted by rayww on August 18, 2003, at 21:53:42

In reply to Re: Broken Horses/Broken Hearts/Travails of the Spirit » rayww, posted by Temmie on August 18, 2003, at 20:04:36

I've prayed for you Temmie. I wish you peace and a good nights rest. Thanks for your ideas and for including me in your discussion.

 

Thank you! » rayww

Posted by Temmie on August 19, 2003, at 2:46:53

In reply to Re: Broken Horses/Broken Hearts/Travails of the Spirit » Temmie, posted by rayww on August 18, 2003, at 21:53:42

I am blessed to be the recipient of such care!

My apologies to you (and all) if I've seemed irritable or "on-edge" lately. Thank you Ray, and all, for your tender words of encouragment, and for your gracious, giving of time, energy and prayers!

I'm going back to bed now ... humbled .... I awoke with nightmares (see next post), but will attempt sleep again with your prayers (and mine) in mind.

Peace, Temmie

 

I Dreamed My Teeth Were Falling Out

Posted by Temmie on August 19, 2003, at 2:51:03

In reply to Re: Broken Horses/Broken Hearts/Travails of the Spirit » Temmie, posted by rayww on August 18, 2003, at 21:53:42

I’m sorry, I’ve lost some of the information in the transfer of this article from … “The New York Times,” 27 oct 02

Falling, flying, infidelity - yeah, yeah, been there done that last night. You know what? Pay attention to your recurring dreams - they might be trying to help you change your life. Bronwen Gora reports.

We rarely take notice of the messages we receive from repetitive dreams, but they can tell us a lot about our fears. According to psychologists and counsellors, they are road maps of our lives and can teach us something. "Dreams are a primary part of the process of understanding your own internal landscape," says Bondi-based counsellor Siana Carren. "They're like maps of the journey we're on." And if the dreams are repetitive, it means you're not working on their message. "Your mind will keep sending you the same dream until you act on it," Carren says.

This means analysing them as much as possible and then taking steps to resolve any troublesome issues, through counselling if necessary. Basically, a recurring dream means there's an issue in your life that hasn't been dealt with - and you must get to the bottom of it.

For instance, psychologist Michael Burge had a client who dreamt of a scary hawk on a tree about to attack her. "When she analysed it more she saw it (the hawk) was a part of herself, a strong part she'd been denying."

It's very important we do this or we will lose the lesson and it will affect our lives.
Psychologist Stefan Durlach, who follows philosopher Carl Jung's interpretations of dreams, says you must "engage with what comes up in a dream" to "create a parallel experience" with your life. So try to write down and/or remember your dreams in such a way that you will have a memory of them as you go about your daily routine.

Teeth Falling Out

Burge says this is a highly common dream. "What's decaying in your life?" he asks. "Are there aspects of your life you're ignoring? Are you in a rut - or pushing yourself too much?"
Nacson says people with this dream often find that in daily life they are losing face or feeling shameful about something. Alternatively, if your teeth are wobbly in your dream when you are involved in something new, it may indicate you feel you are not getting your teeth into the situation.

Burge says research has shown at least 50 per cent of repetitive dreams are related to our well-being, health and growth. "So attend to it, as it's to do with your life aspirations and capabilities."


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