Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 617

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Re: A question

Posted by Mr Beev on July 22, 2002, at 16:01:28

In reply to A question, posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 13:26:23

It is difficult to add anything substansive to fachad's excellent reply, so I shall merely point out an interesting essay on the subject, with anonymous rebuttal, by the great philosopher David Hume:

http://www.anselm.edu/homepage/dbanach/suicide.htm

Best Regards,
Mr Beev

 

Re: I sure wish I could answer that... SandraDee

Posted by mair on July 22, 2002, at 16:42:46

In reply to I sure wish I could answer that... Susan G, posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 15:51:03

Sandra

your anecdote about your grandmother gives rise to the question of what happens to those who do not ask for forgiveness before they die. Any thoughts?

Mair

 

Wellllllllll..... mair

Posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 16:55:30

In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that... SandraDee, posted by mair on July 22, 2002, at 16:42:46

Are you talking about those that believe in God, Christ and the holy Spirit that don't ask for forgiveness before they die, or those that don't believe in all that and don't have a chance or just plain don't ask forgiveness before they die?
Either way, I'm pretty sure I can't post that on this board, or any PSB type board... :( I still go by the "who knows what God can do?" theory, because I can't put *my* God into a box like that, but going by my Bible... apparently I can't post what I believe might happen.
Perhaps Kiddo can elaborate better, because I'm just an itty-bitty Christian :) (a newbie - so to speak) Sorry, I know that wasn't really an "answer" but at least I tried, and I responded! :) hahahaha

 

Re: I sure wish I could answer that... mair

Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 16:58:12

In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that... SandraDee, posted by mair on July 22, 2002, at 16:42:46

Mair, Are you still asking about suicide or about not accepting Jesus as savior.

 

Re: A question Susan G

Posted by judy1 on July 22, 2002, at 17:23:14

In reply to A question, posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 13:26:23

I can only believe in a forgiving God, because if that was not true I would not have any faith. Strictly my opinion- take care, judy

 

Re: Wellllllllll.....

Posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 18:07:06

In reply to Wellllllllll..... mair, posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 16:55:30

Sandra Dee, I'm asking for your opinion, your belief about this. Surely that's ok to post, isn't it? I don't want this to turn into an Admin-bound debate but since I am specifically asking what people believe about this particular question, I would hope you would feel free to tell me. If not, just tell me in PB Open since I truly am interested in your thoughts. Thanks.
Sue

 

Re: Wellllllllll..... Susan G

Posted by kiddo on July 22, 2002, at 18:09:29

In reply to Re: Wellllllllll....., posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 18:07:06

Thanks for saying that Susan....I don't see any reason why it should have to go to admin :-)

Kiddo

 

Have you heard about heaven

Posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 20:06:26

In reply to Re: Wellllllllll..... Susan G, posted by kiddo on July 22, 2002, at 18:09:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah
Seven come eleven
Yeah, yeah, yeah

ZZTop

God wouldn't send you to hell for suicide. He looks at it more as a lateral move. *joke?

 

Re: Have you heard about heaven - Imagine...

Posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 21:37:55

In reply to Have you heard about heaven, posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 20:06:26

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

-John Lennon



> Yeah, yeah, yeah
> Seven come eleven
> Yeah, yeah, yeah
>
> ZZTop
>
> God wouldn't send you to hell for suicide. He looks at it more as a lateral move. *joke?

 

God, I miss John Lennon. (nm) fachad

Posted by Phil on July 22, 2002, at 21:57:43

In reply to Re: Have you heard about heaven - Imagine..., posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 21:37:55

 

Re: I sure wish I could answer that... Dinah

Posted by mair on July 22, 2002, at 22:25:22

In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that... mair, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 16:58:12

> "Are you still asking about suicide or about not accepting Jesus as savior."


Dinah - would there be a difference to your answer one way or the other?

Mair

 

Re: I sure wish I could answer that... mair

Posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 23:17:34

In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that... Dinah, posted by mair on July 22, 2002, at 22:25:22

Yes, Mair. It would of course. I have widely researched current theological thought on suicide (for the obvious reasons). I have no knowledge of the other.

 

I would love to... Susan G

Posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 23:32:35

In reply to Re: Wellllllllll....., posted by Susan G on July 22, 2002, at 18:07:06

I would really love to give you my opinion/belief on the matter, but would have to do so in chat, I suppose. It's been made fairly clear that the "road" that us Christians choose is not that of which to be talked about on this Faith Board. I'd be more than happy to tell you how I feel (in more depth). I've already posted "what I believe" without much detail on another thread (it might have been archived?). Perhaps we can set a date for chat?

 

Re: I sure wish I could answer that...

Posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 9:30:35

In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that... mair, posted by Dinah on July 22, 2002, at 23:17:34

Dinah, since you have done that research would you give me a quick overview of thought on this? I'm still counting votes here.

You're the best! :)

 

Re: I sure wish I could answer that...

Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2002, at 9:34:32

In reply to Re: I sure wish I could answer that..., posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 9:30:35

I'd rather answer that off board, Susan. You can message me and I'll explain why.

 

Re: I would love to...

Posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 9:39:57

In reply to I would love to... Susan G, posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 23:32:35

SandraDee, I would love to talk with you about this in chat. I pop in there most evenings around 7:00 PM our time (Pacific). My schedule is erratic lately so I'm hesitant to set a date and then not show up. How about if we just look for each other?

I don't really want to get into all this but I don't see why it isn't possible to just say here, "The _________ faith believes that if you take your own life you will rot in hell" or whatever. Would that work? If not, no worries, I'll just see you in chat.

Sue

 

Dr. Bob's policy... Susan G

Posted by SandraDee on July 23, 2002, at 10:21:53

In reply to Re: I would love to..., posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 9:39:57

apparently says we can't say stuff like that. At least that's the impression I've gotten. I do not want to risk getting blocked by saying stuff like what you quoted. I am not trying to be difficult, just trying to abide by some of these not-so-clear rules. I don't know if you've been following admin... but God help us all.. whew.
I'll look for you in chat... (we might be going swimming tonight, so probably not tonight :( sorry).

 

Redirected: I don't see why it isn't possible

Posted by Dr. Bob on July 23, 2002, at 11:17:31

In reply to Re: I would love to..., posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 9:39:57

> I don't really want to get into all this but I don't see why it isn't possible to just say here, "The _________ faith believes that if you take your own life you will rot in hell" or whatever.

Good question... I've responded at Psycho-Babble Administration:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020627/msgs/6595.html

Bob

 

Re: Dr. Bob's policy...

Posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 12:03:32

In reply to Dr. Bob's policy... Susan G, posted by SandraDee on July 23, 2002, at 10:21:53

I responded to Dr. Bob on Admin since he directed me there.

If anyone else has an answer to my question and you feel like taking the time, please just email me at imsusang2 at yahoo dot com.

Thanks for all who responded.

Sue

 

That's How I Answered It - It Worked Fine Susan G

Posted by fachad on July 23, 2002, at 12:46:02

In reply to Re: I would love to..., posted by Susan G on July 23, 2002, at 9:39:57

>I don't see why it isn't possible to just say here, "The _________ faith believes that if you take your own life you will rot in hell" or whatever. Would that work?

It worked for me, and nobody complained. Take another look my post:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20020715/msgs/623.html

 

Re: A question - a few answers fachad

Posted by OddipusRex on July 23, 2002, at 13:42:27

In reply to Re: A question - a few answers Susan G, posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 15:21:40

Catholic view from the catechism section 2283

We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the oppurtunity for salutary repentance. The church prays for people who have taken their own lives.

I'm not a catholic but I trust in the infinite mercy of God.

 

pleading insanity?

Posted by OddipusRex on July 23, 2002, at 14:05:02

In reply to Re: A question - a few answers fachad, posted by OddipusRex on July 23, 2002, at 13:42:27

A little more from the catechism (2282)

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibiity of the one committing suicide.

I want to know how to tease out the psychological disturbance from sin. (Are we allowed to mention sin here?) Most of my life is lived under the influence of anguish fear psychological disturbance, etc. How much is me and how much is the depression? Is there really a difference?

 

In a state of total confusion

Posted by Angel Girl on July 23, 2002, at 14:11:34

In reply to I would love to... Susan G, posted by SandraDee on July 22, 2002, at 23:32:35

> I would really love to give you my opinion/belief on the matter, but would have to do so in chat, I suppose. It's been made fairly clear that the "road" that us Christians choose is not that of which to be talked about on this Faith Board. I'd be more than happy to tell you how I feel (in more depth). I've already posted "what I believe" without much detail on another thread (it might have been archived?). Perhaps we can set a date for chat?


Seems I must go and read the Admin board. I thought that THIS board was created to talk about faith issues, was it not????

I'm not trying to cause any problems or to diss anyone, but if Lou can talk about his experiences, then why can't anybody else????

What have I missed??? Are there rules posted somewhere that I'm not aware of???

I thought as long as you weren't trying to recruit, then you could talk about your faith in whatever manner you wanted.

I'm so confused. Anybody care to fill me in please?

Confused Angel

 

Re: pleading insanity? OddipusRex

Posted by krazy kat on July 23, 2002, at 15:56:07

In reply to pleading insanity?, posted by OddipusRex on July 23, 2002, at 14:05:02

Thanks for the info! To be honest, it makes me feel a little "better" about the Catholic church as I always disagreed with the view that suicide=damnation.

My pdoc once said "It's the depression talking, not you." I thought that summed it up well. When gets truly suicidal, something takes over. Call it Satan, call it a scientific malady - whatever. But one does not think clearly - obviously. So it has never made sense to me to codemn a person because they acted out on something that really had nothing to do with who they were at all...

Just my thoughts...

 

Re: A question - a few answers - Yipee! OddipusRex

Posted by fachad on July 23, 2002, at 20:22:16

In reply to Re: A question - a few answers fachad, posted by OddipusRex on July 23, 2002, at 13:42:27

> Catholic view from the catechism section 2283

Yipee! I love it when references are documented!

I will say that despite my disagreements with their teachings and practices, the Catholic Church has always been strong in the scholarship department.

Just wondering...Does the Catholic Church put date stamps and revision numbers on their printed documentation?

I would venture to guess that this "slack" for suicides is a more recent rev. and that the older versions were more damning.


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