Psycho-Babble Alternative Thread 1097026

Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

@ Christempowered: Orthomolecular

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 21, 2018, at 7:15:32

Hi Christempowered,

you seem to know your stuff talking ORTHOMOLECULAR. I am taking a multi vitamin that contains:

Vitamin A 800 microgram
Vitamin E 18 mg
Vitamin C 120mg
Vitamin K 30 microgram
Vitamin B1 1,6 mg
Vitamin B2 2,1 mg
Vitamin B6 2,1 mg
Vitamin B12 3 microgram
Vitamin D 5 microgram
Biotin 62,5 microgram
Folic Acid 200 microgram
Niacin 20mg
Panthotenic Acid 7,5 mg
Calcium 200 mg
Phosphorous 105 mg
Magnesium 120 mg
Iron 3,75 mg
Iodine 100 microgram
Copper 500 microgram
Manganese 2mg
Chrome 40 microgram
Molybdenum 50 micrograms
Selenium 30 micrograms
Zinc 5 mg

Ontop i take the thorne research Basic B Complex 1 capsule in the mornin with the following ingredients:

Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 110 mg.
Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 10 mg.
Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 10 mg as Niacin) 140 mg.
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg.
Folate (400 mcg as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid,Glucosamine Salt) 667 mcg DFE
Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 400 mcg.
Biotin 400 mcg.
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 110 mg.
Choline (as Choline Citrate) 28 mg. )

and 5mg Methylfolate.

Then i take 250mg Magnesium, 200 microgram Selenium, 10mg Zinc,1500 mg Threonine, 3000mg Taurine, 2000mg Vitamin C time released and 8333 mg Vitamin D3. Ontop i will take K2 60mg beginning tomorrow.

Where can i improve? Vitamin E or A? Which product and dosage? How do i know if i have enough potassium?

Thanks in advance,
Lamdage


 

Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular

Posted by Christ_empowered on February 21, 2018, at 16:25:21

In reply to @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular, posted by Lamdage22 on February 21, 2018, at 7:15:32

hi. i am -not- an expert on Orthomolecular. I just read a lot about it, and put together a DIY Orthomolecular protocol for myself.


The core "Mega-Vitamin Therapy for The Schizophrenias," as Dr.Hoffer called his program before Linus Pauling coined the term "Orthomolecular," is B3. I take niacinamide. I take 6 grams time-release of this form of B3 per day. People with psychotic disorders usually need at least 3 grams of some form of B3, although some people took 10+.

However much B3 you take, you need -at least- that much vitamin C. I personally take 20 grams time-release C, because...well...because I can, lol. 10 grams time-release AM, again PM.

Then, you need a b-complex. Hoffer says to take a b-50 at each meal. I take 2 time release b-100 tablets in the morning, with food.

To reduce the risk of TD and boost the C, you need natural form E. I take 800-1600 IU per day. This -must- be taken with a good bit of fat, to ensure proper absorption. My version has a little bit of selenium in each capsule, which is probably a good thing.

Some people should take additional b6. 400+mgs can be used to help with akathisia, depression, dysphoria, etc.

some people also take zinc and selenium, although those are more common in the protocols for cancer. Carotenoids are important, too...personally, I take 12mgs Astaxanthin AM (I use the Nutrex brand), and then I take 25,000 IU natural form beta carotene in the PM.

check out www.doctoryourself.com

 

Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular

Posted by Hugh on February 21, 2018, at 19:57:03

In reply to Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular, posted by Christ_empowered on February 21, 2018, at 16:25:21

This is an interesting article about a multivitamin called EMPowerplus.

http://discovermagazine.com/2005/may/vitamin-cure

 

Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular

Posted by Christ_empowered on February 21, 2018, at 20:50:27

In reply to Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular, posted by Hugh on February 21, 2018, at 19:57:03

thanks, Hugh.

I've thought about that stuff from time to time. Do you know anyone who takes it? Some people (apparently) swear by it, and I think it works faster than Hoffer's Mega-Vitamin Therapy. In chronic cases, he'd keep patients on tranqs with vitamins for 5, 7 years. The few reviews of that supplement I read made it seem as if it works relatively quickly.

thanks again.

 

Vitamin E Tocopherols and Tocotrienols

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 22, 2018, at 22:14:05

In reply to Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular, posted by Christ_empowered on February 21, 2018, at 20:50:27

Is this a good Vitamin E supplement? Can i take it daily?

90 mg D-alpha-Tocopherol = RRR-Alpha-Tocopherol (135 IU)
2,8 mg Beta-Tocopherol (2 IU)
90 mg Gamma-Tocopherol (33,5 IU)
33,5 mg Delta-Tocopherol (0,5 IU)

18 mg Alpha-Tocotrienol (8,1 IU)
3 mg Beta-Tocotrienol (0,7 IU)
26,3 mg Gamma-Tocotrienol (3 IU)
10,5 mg Delta-Tocotrienol

 

Re: Vitamin E Tocopherols and Tocotrienols

Posted by Christ_empowered on February 23, 2018, at 15:54:58

In reply to Vitamin E Tocopherols and Tocotrienols, posted by Lamdage22 on February 22, 2018, at 22:14:05

take whatever you want. i -was- taking 1,000 IU natural form E w/ mixed tocopherols from the brand, "Healthy Origins." I'm now taking 800-1600 IU natural form e w/selenium from vitacost.

The Orthomolecular people recommend high doses of E, to prevent (or reduce) TD. 800-1600IU, sometimes more if one is trying to get active TD under control.

I'm just glad you're interested, honestly.

have you decided if you want to try B3, also?

 

Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular Christ_empowered

Posted by Hugh on February 23, 2018, at 16:07:39

In reply to Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular, posted by Christ_empowered on February 21, 2018, at 20:50:27

You're welcome. I don't know anyone who has tried EMPowerplus. I've never tried it because multivitamins irritate my stomach. For the past month, I've been using a topical patch multivitamin called PatchMD.

https://www.patchrevolution.com/

For several years, my fingertips have felt numb much of the time. Since I started using this patch, I've felt more sensation in my fingertips.

 

Re: Vitamin E Tocopherols and Tocotrienols

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 23, 2018, at 23:30:34

In reply to Re: Vitamin E Tocopherols and Tocotrienols, posted by Christ_empowered on February 23, 2018, at 15:54:58

Hi Christempowered, i take 130 mg of niacinamide and 10mg niacin.

Regards,
Lamdage

 

B Vitamins

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 23, 2018, at 23:54:19

In reply to Re: Vitamin E Tocopherols and Tocotrienols, posted by Lamdage22 on February 23, 2018, at 23:30:34

This is the B Complex i take. I wonder if anything is too high a dosage with this one. What are the tolerable upper limits? I cant find anything on google.

One Capsule Contains:
Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 110 mg.
Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 10 mg.
Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 10 mg as Niacin) 140 mg.
Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg.
Folate (400 mcg as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid,Glucosamine Salt) 667 mcg DFE
Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 400 mcg.
Biotin 400 mcg.
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 110 mg.
Choline (as Choline Citrate) 28 mg

 

Re: B Vitamins

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 24, 2018, at 1:35:50

In reply to B Vitamins, posted by Lamdage22 on February 23, 2018, at 23:54:19

The healthy living feels really good! I had a vegan low carb protein bar, 300g of Blueberrys, a carrot and i downed my supplements with beet juice.

 

Re: B Vitamins

Posted by Christ_empowered on February 24, 2018, at 13:42:00

In reply to Re: B Vitamins, posted by Lamdage22 on February 24, 2018, at 1:35:50

hi. i dont want to sound as if I"m telling you what to do, because...I'm not, at all, but...

with old school Orthomolecular (Mega-Vitamin Therapy for the Schizophrenias), you're looking at massive B3 doses. I take 6,000mgs niacinamide per day, time release form. I take 2 high potency b-100 tablets per day. I take 20 grams time release vitamin C per day.

the difference between old school orthomolecular and applying some of the orthomolecular concepts seems to be -dosage-. Hoffer, Pauling, the other old school Orthomolecular people, were insistent upon using massive doses for a long time, often indefinitely.

www.doctoryourself.com

 

Re: B Vitamins

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 24, 2018, at 14:36:28

In reply to Re: B Vitamins, posted by Christ_empowered on February 24, 2018, at 13:42:00

and what atre the benefits

 

Re: B Vitamins

Posted by Christ_empowered on February 24, 2018, at 22:00:31

In reply to Re: B Vitamins, posted by Lamdage22 on February 24, 2018, at 14:36:28

hi. Orthomolecular might reduce the risk of TD. high dose b6, all by itself, can be used for acute neuroleptic induced akathisia (just an example).

Orthomoelcular doctors report better long term results than with standard treatment. lower doses of the tranquilizers, so less "tranquilizer psychosis." they seem to use fewer drugs, lower doses, far less use of controlled substances.

the alternative/orthomolecular doctors say that their vitamin approach helps minimize tranquilizer use and can ease getting off of neuroleptics for -some- people. similar approaches are used to taper off benzodiazepines, too.

 

Re: B Vitamins

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 25, 2018, at 4:43:47

In reply to Re: B Vitamins, posted by Christ_empowered on February 24, 2018, at 22:00:31

I want to make sure that my vitamin Intake does not have any adverse effects.

 

Re: B Vitamins

Posted by Christ_empowered on February 25, 2018, at 9:44:41

In reply to Re: B Vitamins, posted by Lamdage22 on February 25, 2018, at 4:43:47

The Orthomolecular argument is that most vitamins are harmless, even in massive doses, and that one can get "side benefits," not the "side effects" from pharamceuticals.

They do recommend regular blood work, which is a good idea, anyway. Ive never had major problems. I have read that some people who do Orthomolecular have about 6 months of "detoxing" or...something...as the massive vitamin doses begin to take effect.

 

Re: B Vitamins

Posted by Lamdage22 on February 25, 2018, at 12:00:33

In reply to Re: B Vitamins, posted by Christ_empowered on February 25, 2018, at 9:44:41

well its a matter of belief

 

Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular Lamdage22

Posted by bleauberry on March 10, 2018, at 11:05:04

In reply to @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular, posted by Lamdage22 on February 21, 2018, at 7:15:32

That looks like awesome coverage, if you ask me. Especially the cofactors in the Thorne products.

Whether you add to it or tweak it, I doubt it gets you where you want. For that you need other specific mechanisms, beyond supplying excellent nutrients.

Three areas to study and conquer - covered extremely well in a book called Healing Lyme, whether you have Lyme or not, doesn't matter - you want to rid the body and brain of inflammation and the toxins resulting from the inflammation - you want to remove pathogenic microbial organisms from your brain and body, and the toxins they excrete - there are multiple pathways for all of these - medicines are much too narrow to cover all the pathways - but herbs in Lyme books do all of it.

I only mention that because it is how my 20 year treatment resistant depression/bipolar/schizoaffective ended.

And the two M.D.s who played major roles in getting me well told me that 9 out of 10 patients of theirs are just like me - long time suffering, long time depression, long time prescriptions, long time not doing so well - and when they finish treatment similar to what I mentioned above, they no longer need psychiatric meds or are able to significantly lower doses.

The nutrient list looks great!

If that were my cocktail and I wanted to make it better, knowing what I know now, this is what I would add to it:

Rhodiola Rosea 100mg to 1200mg
EGCg (green tea extract) 400mg
Cordyceps 400mg to 3000mg
Resveratrol from Japanese Knotweed (Polygonum Cupsidatum) not resveratrol from grapes. Source Naturals is a decent brand. Two caps 3X day.
Chinese Skullcap (also called Baicalin) (don't use American Skullcap it is not the same thing) 2 caps 3X day

I mean I could keep going and add another dozen easy. But for a longtime psychiatric patient looking to make some progress, the items I listed have amazing multifaceted properties that directly and indirectly help improve any psychiatric symptoms. There is a ton of antimicrobials in there - as much as antibiotics or antifungals -, and there is a ton of anti-inflammatories, more than 2 or 3 prescriptions put together - a ton of toxin mop-up from them and your nutrients.

Always start with tiny doses and work up. Plan on 3 month trials not 6 week trials. These herbal medicines change, repair and restore your chemistry in good ways but they need time to do that. Your nutrient base is awesome to build upon.

I could write a book why I listed those particular supplements. There is that much potential with them it would take a book to explain it all. Three of them are some of the world's super herbs.

I

> Hi Christempowered,
>
> you seem to know your stuff talking ORTHOMOLECULAR. I am taking a multi vitamin that contains:
>
> Vitamin A 800 microgram
> Vitamin E 18 mg
> Vitamin C 120mg
> Vitamin K 30 microgram
> Vitamin B1 1,6 mg
> Vitamin B2 2,1 mg
> Vitamin B6 2,1 mg
> Vitamin B12 3 microgram
> Vitamin D 5 microgram
> Biotin 62,5 microgram
> Folic Acid 200 microgram
> Niacin 20mg
> Panthotenic Acid 7,5 mg
> Calcium 200 mg
> Phosphorous 105 mg
> Magnesium 120 mg
> Iron 3,75 mg
> Iodine 100 microgram
> Copper 500 microgram
> Manganese 2mg
> Chrome 40 microgram
> Molybdenum 50 micrograms
> Selenium 30 micrograms
> Zinc 5 mg
>
> Ontop i take the thorne research Basic B Complex 1 capsule in the mornin with the following ingredients:
>
> Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 110 mg.
> Riboflavin (as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 10 mg.
> Niacin (130 mg as Niacinamide and 10 mg as Niacin) 140 mg.
> Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10 mg.
> Folate (400 mcg as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid,Glucosamine Salt) 667 mcg DFE
> Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 400 mcg.
> Biotin 400 mcg.
> Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 110 mg.
> Choline (as Choline Citrate) 28 mg. )
>
> and 5mg Methylfolate.
>
> Then i take 250mg Magnesium, 200 microgram Selenium, 10mg Zinc,1500 mg Threonine, 3000mg Taurine, 2000mg Vitamin C time released and 8333 mg Vitamin D3. Ontop i will take K2 60mg beginning tomorrow.
>
> Where can i improve? Vitamin E or A? Which product and dosage? How do i know if i have enough potassium?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Lamdage
>
>
>

 

Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 10, 2018, at 11:40:32

In reply to Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular Lamdage22, posted by bleauberry on March 10, 2018, at 11:05:04

> Rhodiola Rosea 100mg to 1200mg
> EGCg (green tea extract) 400mg
> Cordyceps 400mg to 3000mg
> Resveratrol from Japanese Knotweed (Polygonum Cupsidatum) not resveratrol from grapes. Source Naturals is a decent brand. Two caps 3X day.
> Chinese Skullcap (also called Baicalin) (don't use American Skullcap it is not the same thing) 2 caps 3X day


I will check it out. Thanks

 

Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 10, 2018, at 11:59:27

In reply to Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular, posted by Lamdage22 on March 10, 2018, at 11:40:32

Can you explain why you would choose these treatments. I am currently trailing low dose naltrexone to boost endorphines.

 

Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 8, 2018, at 3:21:38

In reply to Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular Lamdage22, posted by bleauberry on March 10, 2018, at 11:05:04

Hi bleauberry,

after Tchernobyl i am scared to take funguses...

Can you recommend brands or products?

Thanks for taking the time.

> Rhodiola Rosea 100mg to 1200mg
> EGCg (green tea extract) 400mg
> Cordyceps 400mg to 3000mg
> Resveratrol from Japanese Knotweed (Polygonum Cupsidatum) not resveratrol from grapes. Source Naturals is a decent brand. Two caps 3X day.
> Chinese Skullcap (also called Baicalin) (don't use American Skullcap it is not the same thing) 2 caps 3X day

 

@ bleuaberry how much resveratrol? (nm)

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 12, 2018, at 10:42:00

In reply to Re: @ Christempowered: Orthomolecular Lamdage22, posted by bleauberry on March 10, 2018, at 11:05:04

 

Re: @ bleuaberry how much resveratrol?

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 12, 2018, at 10:42:52

In reply to @ bleuaberry how much resveratrol? (nm), posted by Lamdage22 on April 12, 2018, at 10:42:00

i cant buy source naturals

 

resveratrol keeps me up at night (nm)

Posted by Lamdage22 on May 15, 2018, at 2:40:24

In reply to Re: @ bleuaberry how much resveratrol?, posted by Lamdage22 on April 12, 2018, at 10:42:52


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