Psycho-Babble Alternative Thread 1094789

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Re: No meds

Posted by beckett2 on September 1, 2017, at 17:18:17

In reply to No meds, posted by Markwell on August 31, 2017, at 16:46:46

Idk. BPI needs stabilization. Anyways, I've tried med free and failed. Despite crappy med trials, before I was ever medicated, it wasn't a happy thing. That's my experience, so I can't recommend a particular book. There are supplements to try as add-ons, and hopefully someone here will weigh in. I'm curious if you doubt your diagnosis?

 

Re: No meds

Posted by SLS on September 2, 2017, at 5:10:46

In reply to No meds, posted by Markwell on August 31, 2017, at 16:46:46

> I have and always have had a difficult time with meds. Can anyone recommend a book or aware of a dr that treats without meds.

> I was off meds for about 3 years but just couldn't make it work.

What exactly did you try during this period of time?

In my mind, herbs and supra-nutritional dosages of many "supplements" are really acting as drugs and can have negative side effects and can become toxic along with their potential to produce therapeutic effects. St. John's Wort is not "natural" in the body any more than is Prozac. Still, I would rather get well by taking substances that do occur in the body naturally and without medication. So, if you are interested in using "naturopathic" treatments, I think you are beginning the process the right way in wanting to read books and gather your own information that does not rely on the guesswork of people who you know nothing about or who have no formal training. For instance, I have no formal training, and would not rely on my limited knowledge and guesswork. However, finding a competent doctor who specializes in biological psychiatry can be difficult, and is sometimes a matter of luck.

It is not natural to have a mental illness. It often takes something that is not natural to treat it successfully. If you have not had any luck with the choices made using allopathic medication, perhaps there are alternatives that would work. I doubt that you have tried every treatment regime that can be constructed using a combination of different medications. My bias is obvious. I am more confident that I need potent medication to get well rather than herbs and supplements. I do, however, like the idea of combining supplement substances with medication. For instance, adding N-acetylcysteine (NAC) to Lamictal can produce a more robust therapeutic response than using Lamictal alone.


- Scott


 

Re: No meds

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 2, 2017, at 8:19:47

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by SLS on September 2, 2017, at 5:10:46

You can read Peter Breggin or something like that. I dont know if you should be on meds or not.

Have you quit cold turkey?

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Markwell on September 2, 2017, at 9:23:57

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Lamdage22 on September 2, 2017, at 8:19:47

I'm still taking meds. Three years ago I went Cold turkey. I'll check out Peter breggin.
Mark

 

Re: No meds Markwell

Posted by SLS on September 2, 2017, at 11:13:54

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Markwell on September 2, 2017, at 9:23:57

> I'm still taking meds. Three years ago I went Cold turkey. I'll check out Peter breggin.
> Mark


Be careful with Peter Breggin. To me, he is an opportunistic charlatan who twists facts and fabricates conclusions that are not evidence based. He was fired by the NIH. He is against drug therapies in general. His bias is obvious. You can either buy into his talking points that modern psychiatry is a self-serving conspiracy, or look instead at evidence to be found in scientific investigation. As in politics, people often vote for the person who says what they want to hear. Again, just Be careful.

I hope you find what you are looking for. Each person's journey to health is different.


- Scott


 

Re: No meds

Posted by Markwell on September 2, 2017, at 12:14:33

In reply to Re: No meds Markwell, posted by SLS on September 2, 2017, at 11:13:54

He practices in Ithaca ny...about an hour from me. I called him to discuss going off meds and how he would treat someone with my condition. He had no real good answer....so I would agree with you Scott.
Mark

 

Re: No meds Markwell

Posted by beckett2 on September 2, 2017, at 12:56:57

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Markwell on September 2, 2017, at 12:14:33

> He practices in Ithaca ny...about an hour from me. I called him to discuss going off meds and how he would treat someone with my condition. He had no real good answer....so I would agree with you Scott.
> Mark

Yeah, no. He's hardcore. Almost cruel.

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 3, 2017, at 7:20:25

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Markwell on September 2, 2017, at 12:14:33

I have almost the same attitude about meds. Your scientific investigation lasts for 8 weeks tops and doctors say to take it the rest of your life. There is no scientific basis for that.

Dont go cold turkey again. It is no wonder that it failed. 10% steps every couple weeks if you want to go off.

It is your decision.

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 3, 2017, at 7:24:22

In reply to Re: No meds Markwell, posted by SLS on September 2, 2017, at 11:13:54

>He is against drug therapies in general.

That is outrageous!

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 3, 2017, at 13:48:21

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Lamdage22 on September 3, 2017, at 7:24:22

You and i have never done a study (much less a study over decades) and unless we do that we wont know if meds are good or bad.

I place my bet firmly on "bad".

 

Re: No meds Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on September 3, 2017, at 20:34:27

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Lamdage22 on September 3, 2017, at 13:48:21

> You and i have never done a study

That's what scientist are for. (You really should speak for yourself).

Drugs can work miracles. I'm sorry that they haven't done so for you.

Fortunately, drugs have worked miracles for me in the past, so I am quite confident in their worth.


- Scott

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Markwell on September 4, 2017, at 8:59:53

In reply to Re: No meds Lamdage22, posted by SLS on September 3, 2017, at 20:34:27

I'm trying the med route again. It hasn't helped much in the past but I'm giving it a shot again.
Mark

 

Re: No meds Markwell

Posted by SLS on September 4, 2017, at 16:00:50

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Markwell on September 4, 2017, at 8:59:53

> I'm trying the med route again. It hasn't helped much in the past but I'm giving it a shot again.
> Mark
>

I would look to try new drugs and new combinations. Maybe you can ask questions or post your progress on the Medication board.

Good luck.


- Scott

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Markwell on September 5, 2017, at 14:07:30

In reply to Re: No meds Markwell, posted by SLS on September 4, 2017, at 16:00:50

Scott, did you say racing thoughts were a problem with you? How did you get rid of them?
Mark

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 5, 2017, at 14:23:46

In reply to Re: No meds Lamdage22, posted by SLS on September 3, 2017, at 20:34:27

> > You and i have never done a study
>
> That's what scientist are for. (You really should speak for yourself).

Yes but you dont know about their integrity.

> Drugs can work miracles. I'm sorry that they haven't done so for you.

Drugs can temporarily work miracles. They have done for me. However i still wish i had never taken them! Alot of trouble with those. They can also drive you into suicide. I think its a bit like gambling. Only you dont gamble with money, you gamble with your life. Im not into that.

> Fortunately, drugs have worked miracles for me in the past, so I am quite confident in their worth.

I focus on improving work and private life. I am expanding my work for an hour every couple weeks.

I am quite content with the way i am feeling and doing. I have hope. All while reducing my meds.

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 5, 2017, at 14:26:58

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Lamdage22 on September 5, 2017, at 14:23:46

I have put alot of time and effort into researching psychiatric drugs. Now i have better things to do with that time and effort and it seems to work out pretty nicely.

 

Re: No meds Markwell

Posted by SLS on September 5, 2017, at 20:21:25

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Markwell on September 5, 2017, at 14:07:30

> Scott, did you say racing thoughts were a problem with you? How did you get rid of them?
> Mark

Hi, Mark.

How would you describe your racing thoughts?

I never have problems with racing thoughts except for the few times mania was triggered by medication. During those times, Depakote helped a lot. However, I seem not to have had a manic reaction since starting Abilify 15 years ago. The problem with Depakote is that it can leave one somewhat depressed after the mania resolves.


- Scott

 

Re: No meds Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on September 6, 2017, at 6:01:14

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Lamdage22 on September 5, 2017, at 14:23:46

> > > You and i have never done a study

> > That's what scientist are for. (You really should speak for yourself).

> Yes but you dont know about their integrity.

People's integrity is determined by what they do (or write).

> > Drugs can work miracles. I'm sorry that they haven't done so for you.

> Drugs can temporarily work miracles.

They can also work miracles indefinitely. They are not always temporary.

> They have done for me. However i still wish i had never taken them! Alot of trouble with those. They can also drive you into suicide. I think its a bit like gambling. Only you dont gamble with money, you gamble with your life. Im not into that.

What precisely are these gambles? What do you approximate the frequency of these gambles is?

> > Fortunately, drugs have worked miracles for me in the past, so I am quite confident in their worth.

> I focus on improving work and private life.

I'm glad. Me, too.

> I am quite content with the way i am feeling and doing.

How do you account for this?

> I have hope. All while reducing my meds.

You are still taking meds - right or wrong.

The drugs you take might be critical to your feeling content. You don't know. You are reducing them at a rate that is too slow to come to any conclusions. I have read your one-size-fits-all formula for discontinuing psychotropic medication. Do you base your formula on the writings of Heather Ashton? I don't think the Ashton prescription for the prevention of drug withdrawal applies to drugs other than benzodiazepines. Please correct me if I'm wrong. SSRIs and SNRIs are difficult to discontinue. I can discontinue Effexor 300 mg/day within two weeks. I have done it several times. So, too, have I discontinued Ativan 4.0 mg/day in less than two weeks. Of course, I am only one person - as are you. Either way, I hope you accomplish your goals.


- Scott

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Markwell on September 6, 2017, at 7:14:31

In reply to Re: No meds Lamdage22, posted by SLS on September 6, 2017, at 6:01:14

I'm staying with the lamictal lithium combination for a few months. Then I'll try something else. I've come to believe I can't do this without drugs.
Mark

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 6, 2017, at 10:16:54

In reply to Re: No meds Lamdage22, posted by SLS on September 6, 2017, at 6:01:14

> They can also work miracles indefinitely. They are not always temporary.

I have met several hundred if not thousand "patients" and i have never heard of it. I have heard of a decade of remission tops. Nothing more. If you read reviews on the internet that say they have had a lifetime of remission, i am positive that they are written by drug reps. What happens after these 10 years? (For most people its a few weeks or months!!) Over a whole lifetime, was the use of the drug really a relief? Have you heard of Plato's allegory of the cave? Do you think it is good to see the light and then have to go back into the cave forever?

> What precisely are these gambles? What do you approximate the frequency of these gambles is?

I would say that it is far more likely to become suicidal or even complete suicide than to have eternal bliss, like you say is possible but has never been seen.

> > I am quite content with the way i am feeling and doing.
>
> How do you account for this?

You mean what the reason for doing well is? I dont think its the drugs, thats for sure.

> > I have hope. All while reducing my meds.
>
> You are still taking meds - right or wrong.

Right.

> The drugs you take might be critical to your feeling content. You don't know.

No i dont. But neither does anyone else, so... there also should be a shred of doubt in your mind also if the drugs really help you. My bet is that it is mostly you who pulls of 7 hours of work and not your meds.

>You are reducing them at a rate that is too slow to come to any conclusions.

I have to disagree.

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 6, 2017, at 10:24:22

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Lamdage22 on September 6, 2017, at 10:16:54

It is as likely to die by suicide from these drugs as it is likely to have eternal bliss. That and everything in between is the gamble.

My approach is not more "one size fits all" than your search for the ideal combination (that has never been tested in anyone for any significant amount of time) for yourself and others.

 

Re: No meds

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 6, 2017, at 10:26:49

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Lamdage22 on September 6, 2017, at 10:24:22

Everyone that comes here gets told to take psychiatric drugs. Correct me if i am wrong.

 

Re: No meds Markwell

Posted by SLS on September 6, 2017, at 13:20:58

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Markwell on September 6, 2017, at 7:14:31

> I'm staying with the lamictal lithium combination for a few months. Then I'll try something else. I've come to believe I can't do this without drugs.
> Mark

That combination is well-suited for bipolar disorder, including rapid-cycling. If you are not bipolar, and suffer from depression only, the combination may not help. You are patient, which will work in your favor in your pursuit of mental health.

I'm sorry that I don't remember more about your case. Perhaps you can start a new thread on the Medication board describing your illness and its symptoms, along with the drugs you have tried to treat it with.


- Scott

 

Re: No meds Lamdage22

Posted by SLS on September 6, 2017, at 13:44:58

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Lamdage22 on September 6, 2017, at 10:16:54

That you should say all of these things with surety invites contentious debate. However, I am content to leave them alone for others to consider.

Have you entertained the notion that you do not have an illness for which psychotropic medication treats effectively?

I am actually frustrated for you that you do not discontinue your medication more efficiently.

I hope you are right in your case.

We shall see.


- Scott

 

Re: No meds Markwell

Posted by beckett2 on September 7, 2017, at 0:01:00

In reply to Re: No meds, posted by Markwell on September 6, 2017, at 7:14:31

> I'm staying with the lamictal lithium combination for a few months. Then I'll try something else. I've come to believe I can't do this without drugs.
> Mark

Keep us posted


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