Psycho-Babble Alternative Thread 403538

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Re: L-glutamine / anxiety!...Jlx mmb

Posted by tealady on October 16, 2004, at 21:11:36

In reply to L-glutamine helped me with anxiety!, posted by mmb on October 15, 2004, at 17:30:51

>>Morning:
Multivitamine tablet dissolved in water - 100% RDA of all vitamins and minerals
300 mg Magnesium + B1, B12, B6 - capsule dissolved in water
1g L-glutamine (on empty stomach)

Afternoon:
Amino acid mix - 1 tablet all aminoacids
Multivitamine tablet dissolved in water - 100% RDA of all vitamins and minerals
B vitamin complex - 1 capsule
Ginkgo biloba - 1 capsule

At night
1g L-glutamine (on empty stomach)
300 mg Magnesium + B1, B12, B6 - capsule dissolved in water

So far so good. It works
>>

Hi,

That's good that you are taking capsules and liquid form ..and even dissolving them first to ensure absorption. (I'll have to stop being lazy <g>)

I guess some people just tablet form and not on empty stomach for the amino acids..and either waste them or need huge doses comparatively for any effect.
From what I understand people who continue to feel great on l-glutamine are usually fairly active..even athletic.

so Q1. Re you fairly active?

Q2. Are you fairly young ..like under 35? This may be important as there is some thought that the higher levels of estrogen , progesterobne protect from glutamate toxicity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11751611&dopt=Abstract

Q3. good cortisol levels?..like not too low at least!
(see abstract at bottom)

A deficiency in glutamine synthetase might be responsible for the high extracellular concentrations of glutamate that are indicted as a likely trigger of epileptic seizures, the researchers noted.
http://www.neurologyreviews.com/feb04/nr_feb04_litmon.html


Jan

-------------------------------
Effect of hydrocortisone on myelin basic protein in developing primary brain cultures.
Ved HS, Gustow E, Pieringer RA
Department of Biochemistry, Temple University School of Medicine, Philadelphia, PA 19140.
The hormones hydrocortisone (HC) and triiodothyronine (T3) are known to regulate myelinogenic parameters in cultures of brain cells. However, the effect of glucocorticoids on the myelin-specific metabolite, myelin basic protein, has not been previously studied. In the present studies we show that the concentrations of myelin basic protein (MBP) in developing primary cultures from mouse cerebra are significantly higher in HC (0.3 microM)-treated as compared to untreated cultures after 15 days in vitro. Further, this effect of HC on MBP appears to be T3-dependent. Since HC stimulates oligodendroglia to produce MBP, the effect of HC on the activities of the enzymes, glutamine synthetase which is primarily associated with astrocytes, and acetylcholinesterase, which is primarily associated with neurons was was determined. HC stimulated both enzymes, suggesting that all 3 cell types may be regulated by HC.

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage JLx

Posted by tealady on October 16, 2004, at 21:29:08

In reply to Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety! mmb, posted by JLx on October 16, 2004, at 20:25:47

Hey JL,

Just came across your old post where you mentioned your suicide feeling reactions to glutamine.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/261515.html
>
> But high dose glutamine can cause excitotoxic problems even in the short term. ... glutamine supplementation should probably not exceed 1-2 grams daily, if it is used at all."
http://www.antiaging-systems.net/article-excitotoxins.htm
>
>
Another user Ame ? posted this
~~AMINO ACIDS
1. Glutamine
a.) Helps in treatment of phobias, anxiety, and panic by producing energy without causing nervousness.
b.) Makes the mind more alert, partially though its ability to detoxify the ammonia buildup in cells, and also because as it passes through the kidneys, it helps the body retain potassium and sodium.
c.) Promotes the regeneration of the linings of the digestive tract (i.e. useful in treating ulcers)
d.) Greatly stimulates clearer thinking; has been useful in improving brain functions of patients with mental retardation and epilepsy; also improves memory and enhances physical dexterity.
e.) Reduces lactic acid buildup--great to take before and after working out to prevent muscle soreness.
f.) Aids in gastrointestinal healing.
g.) Helps reduce cravings for sugar and alcohol, probably by providing energy for brain function.
h.) Practitioners prescribe it for neurological and mental disorders.

DOSAGE: 500mg two to three times daily

which fits

as does mmb's 1g in morning and evening (depending on weight, build, amount of muscle..like a well built active guy could take more, as muscle uses it up..err I think)

Jan


 

Re: L-glutamine ..forgot to add,,,JLx..mmb

Posted by tealady on October 16, 2004, at 22:21:40

In reply to Re: L-glutamine / anxiety!...Jlx mmb, posted by tealady on October 16, 2004, at 21:11:36

> >>Morning:
> Multivitamine tablet dissolved in water - 100% RDA of all vitamins and minerals
> 300 mg Magnesium + B1, B12, B6 - capsule dissolved in water
> 1g L-glutamine (on empty stomach)
>
> Afternoon:
> Amino acid mix - 1 tablet all aminoacids
> Multivitamine tablet dissolved in water - 100% RDA of all vitamins and minerals
> B vitamin complex - 1 capsule
> Ginkgo biloba - 1 capsule
>
> At night
> 1g L-glutamine (on empty stomach)
> 300 mg Magnesium + B1, B12, B6 - capsule dissolved in water
>
> So far so good. It works
> >>
>
> Hi,
>
> That's good that you are taking capsules and liquid form ..and even dissolving them first to ensure absorption. (I'll have to stop being lazy <g>)
>
> I guess some people just tablet form and not on empty stomach for the amino acids..and either waste them or need huge doses comparatively for any effect.
> From what I understand people who continue to feel great on l-glutamine are usually fairly active..even athletic.
>
> so Q1. Re you fairly active?
>
> Q2. Are you fairly young ..like under 35? This may be important as there is some thought that the higher levels of estrogen , progesterobne protect from glutamate toxicity
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11751611&dopt=Abstract
>
> Q3. good cortisol levels?..like not too low at least!
> (see abstract at bottom)
>
> A deficiency in glutamine synthetase might be responsible for the high extracellular concentrations of glutamate that are indicted as a likely trigger of epileptic seizures, the researchers noted.
> http://www.neurologyreviews.com/feb04/nr_feb04_litmon.html


Q4. Great thyroid hormone levels? (that's the T3 in the article above)

>
>
> Jan
>
> -------------------------------
> Effect of hydrocortisone on myelin basic protein in developing primary brain cultures.
> Ved HS, Gustow E, Pieringer RA
> Department of Biochemistry, Temple University School of Medicine, Philadelphia, PA 19140.
> The hormones hydrocortisone (HC) and triiodothyronine (T3) are known to regulate myelinogenic parameters in cultures of brain cells. However, the effect of glucocorticoids on the myelin-specific metabolite, myelin basic protein, has not been previously studied. In the present studies we show that the concentrations of myelin basic protein (MBP) in developing primary cultures from mouse cerebra are significantly higher in HC (0.3 microM)-treated as compared to untreated cultures after 15 days in vitro. Further, this effect of HC on MBP appears to be T3-dependent. Since HC stimulates oligodendroglia to produce MBP, the effect of HC on the activities of the enzymes, glutamine synthetase which is primarily associated with astrocytes, and acetylcholinesterase, which is primarily associated with neurons was was determined. HC stimulated both enzymes, suggesting that all 3 cell types may be regulated by HC.
>
>

 

Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety! mmb

Posted by tealady on October 16, 2004, at 22:45:39

In reply to L-glutamine helped me with anxiety!, posted by mmb on October 15, 2004, at 17:30:51

> After reading stories on this board and trying different medication I can now tell you how things turned out good from an unexpected source. For several years I have been suffering from severe stress and all symptoms related to it. To name just a few: anxiety, depression, fear of future, panic attacks, feeling tired, sleepy during the day, at night I could not fall asleep without benzos, tremor, feeling irritated all the time etc. I can not even remember all the symptoms. I tried all kind of benzos, Zoloft (for 9 months), all kind of alternative stuff (5-HTP, St. Johns worth, Adapton, inositol...) some of which helped (5-HTP, inositol) some did not. In my desperation I started to try and mix everything, especially these alternative stuff. At the same time I surfed the Internet trying to find more information because I was convinced my problems were related to unbalanced chemistry in the brain (due to severe trauma I went through several years earlier). Then one day I bought L-glutamine without much expectation since I have been dissapointed so many times with different supplements. And I was dissapointed. Nothing really happened. Two weeks later I come across an article about amino acids and especially L-glutamine on how it can boost GABA in the brain. I went out to another shop and bought 90 capsules of 500 mg L-glutamine of another brand. I took 2 capsules (1 g) at about 9 pm and for the first time in my life in last 8 years I felt myself. I then added small dosage of benzo and I felt even better. I fell asleep like a baby. Tomorrow when I woke up I still felt anxiety (which is a trademark of my mornings) but I was happy that I slept so good. Then I took 1g again in the morning and 1g in the evening and I continued to feel fine. Now, after three months I can tell you that this stuff works (at least on me). I feel great energy during the day (no more naps in the afternoon), anxiety is GREATLY reduced, I am not affraid of future nor social life. I sleep very good and only sometimes I have to add small dosage of benzo in the night just to feel really good. I also added Amin acid mix during the day and it just helped. I wean off Zoloft without problems while on glutamine and stopped taking it after 2 days. My daily regime has changed from every capsule in the drugstore to the following:
> Morning:
> Multivitamine tablet dissolved in water - 100% RDA of all vitamins and minerals
> 300 mg Magnesium + B1, B12, B6 - capsule dissolved in water
> 1g L-glutamine (on empty stomach)
>
> Afternoon:
> Amino acid mix - 1 tablet all aminoacids
> Multivitamine tablet dissolved in water - 100% RDA of all vitamins and minerals
> B vitamin complex - 1 capsule
> Ginkgo biloba - 1 capsule
>
> At night
> 1g L-glutamine (on empty stomach)
> 300 mg Magnesium + B1, B12, B6 - capsule dissolved in water
>
> So far so good. It works. I also take taurine sometimes (it is great supplement, really helps to calm your mind), but only when needed. Did not try L-tyrosin or l-phenylalanine, did not have to.
>
> A couple of suggestions to those who want to try alternatives: There are a lot of articles on the Internet about how amino acids change and balance brain chemistry. Do not believe in everything - I have found articles from very reliable sources (Phd's in USA) who even offer therapy with amino aicds for anxieta, depression etc.
>
> Try different brands. I get my L-glutamine from shop for body builders and it seems to be very potent. The other brand that i tried first did nothing.
>
> Watch out for placebo effect. That's what happened to me with Taurine. I expected too much from it after reading on how good it is. Then, when I took it first day I felt worse and stopped taking it. One week later I was working on something, then by mistake took 1 capsule of taurine and forgot about it. After one hour I felt much better. The more you think about it the less the effect or bigger placebo effect.
>
> Stay persistent. Most mental problems are really caused by unbalanced chemistry in the brain. Do your own research, find out how transmitters work (I could write a book about it after all the reading), how SSRI work, how vitamines work, how your body depletes nutritients under sressful situations. YOU CAN GET OVER IT. JUST BELIEVE IN YOURSELF!
>
> Sorry for being too long but i hope i can help people with mental problems. I was one of them.
>
> regards,
> mmb

forgot to say too ..

I really glad its worked for you and thanks for letting us all know!

It's just this is one of thse things that helps lots of people..probably mostly those who are fit, young and comparatively healthy and pretty active in lifestyle
but may not be too good for others.

I'm considering trying some, but only a short course..say 500mg twice a day like you take it

Jan

 

glutamate and calcium JLx

Posted by tealady on October 16, 2004, at 22:49:43

In reply to Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety! mmb, posted by JLx on October 16, 2004, at 20:25:47

http://apu.sfn.org/content/Publications/BrainBriefings/astrocytes.html

Jan

 

Re: L-glutamine ..forgot to add,,,JLx..mmb

Posted by mmb on October 17, 2004, at 4:35:03

In reply to Re: L-glutamine ..forgot to add,,,JLx..mmb, posted by tealady on October 16, 2004, at 22:21:40

Hi,
> >
> > That's good that you are taking capsules and liquid form ..and even dissolving them first to ensure absorption. (I'll have to stop being lazy <g>)
> >
> > I guess some people just tablet form and not on empty stomach for the amino acids..and either waste them or need huge doses comparatively for any effect.
> > From what I understand people who continue to feel great on l-glutamine are usually fairly active..even athletic.
> >
> > so Q1. Re you fairly active?

Well, I cycle for 3 KM every day and that's about it. What really depletes my storage of nutrients is stress and I often feel like I played basketball for 6 hours after coming from work. That's where glutamine helped - fueled my brain with energy so that I am not tired anymore and somehow it calms me down (just like JL said probably it converts to GABA).
> >
> > Q2. Are you fairly young ..like under 35? This may be important as there is some thought that the higher levels of estrogen , progesterobne protect from glutamate toxicity

Yes, I am under 35 (32). However after my last post isn't dosage of 2000 mg ridicolous to talk about toxicity even in a long term when you know that the body stores 100.000 mg of it?
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11751611&dopt=Abstract
> >
> > Q3. good cortisol levels?..like not too low at least!
> > (see abstract at bottom)

Cortisol was my main problem when stressed. It can have devastating power on your body during long periods of stress and again because L-glutamine calms me down I guess my cortisol levels are lower.

> > A deficiency in glutamine synthetase might be responsible for the high extracellular concentrations of glutamate that are indicted as a likely trigger of epileptic seizures, the researchers noted.
> > http://www.neurologyreviews.com/feb04/nr_feb04_litmon.html

Now, who can explain this? I read that L-glutamine is helpful with epilepsy but here I am confused (why don't these MDs and Phds write in understandable language)
>
> Q4. Great thyroid hormone levels? (that's the T3 in the article above)
>

Last time I checked my thyroid hormone levels were normal (actually I was feeling so bad that I tried to find explenation in my symptoms but turned out I was healthy - did not do amino acid test however). So nothing new there.

I just would like to mention another interesting thing - I also tried GABA (I told you I tried everything) and I felt terrible. Actually, the first hour I feel wonderful but then the anxiety attacks kept coming. After trying it for 2 days with minimal dosage (100 mg) I gave up. I still have GABA but maybe in the future when I feel confident I will try it again.

Also, do not forget diet. My diet is very poor in: milk, eggs, meat. Now, after trying amino acids I saw that they even further calm me down and get me more alert. After comparing my workload and diet that I take I understood that I do not get enough nutrients in to my body. I do not believe in perfect healthy diet. There is no such thing when you are stressed. I definitely needed to supplement and nothing had more impact than amino acids (together with minerals). BTW, this capsule of amino acid mix contains 822 mg of Glutamic acid together with all other amino acids.
> >
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > Effect of hydrocortisone on myelin basic protein in developing primary brain cultures.
> > Ved HS, Gustow E, Pieringer RA
> > Department of Biochemistry, Temple University School of Medicine, Philadelphia, PA 19140.
> > The hormones hydrocortisone (HC) and triiodothyronine (T3) are known to regulate myelinogenic parameters in cultures of brain cells. However, the effect of glucocorticoids on the myelin-specific metabolite, myelin basic protein, has not been previously studied. In the present studies we show that the concentrations of myelin basic protein (MBP) in developing primary cultures from mouse cerebra are significantly higher in HC (0.3 microM)-treated as compared to untreated cultures after 15 days in vitro. Further, this effect of HC on MBP appears to be T3-dependent. Since HC stimulates oligodendroglia to produce MBP, the effect of HC on the activities of the enzymes, glutamine synthetase which is primarily associated with astrocytes, and acetylcholinesterase, which is primarily associated with neurons was was determined. HC stimulated both enzymes, suggesting that all 3 cell types may be regulated by HC.
> >
> >
>

 

Re: L-glutamine ..forgot to add,,,JLx.. mmb

Posted by tealady on October 17, 2004, at 5:51:24

In reply to Re: L-glutamine ..forgot to add,,,JLx..mmb, posted by mmb on October 17, 2004, at 4:35:03

Just trying to give some reasons why you find it beneficial..like you have good levels of estrogen, progesterone, enough cortisol (high is fine here although I realise too high for too long is no good), and get enough exercise..so it works for you. I know you did'nt need to know it works for you, just thought I'd give some reasons as to why it might work for you and not for others.

Glutamine syntase is an enzyme needed to break down the glutamate..to have enough of it you it looks like (from those studies)you need good levels of cortisol, T3..and you've got enough.

Estrogen, progesterone, I think can alter the pathways.

One word of caution though for anyone considering or even likely to get pregnant..Dr Mercola's article that JLx linked to pointed out glutamine is probably dangerous to the foetus, as is gingko

Best, Jan


 

Re: L-glutamine ..forgot to add,,,JLx..

Posted by mmb on October 17, 2004, at 7:03:07

In reply to Re: L-glutamine ..forgot to add,,,JLx.. mmb, posted by tealady on October 17, 2004, at 5:51:24

> Just trying to give some reasons why you find it beneficial..like you have good levels of estrogen, progesterone, enough cortisol (high is fine here although I realise too high for too long is no good), and get enough exercise..so it works for you. I know you did'nt need to know it works for you, just thought I'd give some reasons as to why it might work for you and not for others.
>
> Glutamine syntase is an enzyme needed to break down the glutamate..to have enough of it you it looks like (from those studies)you need good levels of cortisol, T3..and you've got enough.
>
> Estrogen, progesterone, I think can alter the pathways.
>
> One word of caution though for anyone considering or even likely to get pregnant..Dr Mercola's article that JLx linked to pointed out glutamine is probably dangerous to the foetus, as is gingko
>
> Best, Jan
>
>
Thanks Jan,
to be honest I have no idea how it works. In one of the above articles it says "To produce enough GABA, people need an abundant supply of the amino acid glutamine - glutamine is the nutritional precursor of GABA which has an antianxiety effect. [Acta Paediatr Jpn Oversea Ed (Tokyo) 20(1978): pp.11-23] In another study, people taking glutamine showed significant reductions in their feelings of anger and fatigue. [Rogers, et. al., Effects of Glutamine on IQ, Tex. Rep. Biol. Med. 5]". My guess is that glutamine crosses blood barrier and converts to GABA (at elast some of it). What I found out is the same as many studies confirm. More L-glutamine does not make things better. After noticing benefits I tried to increase L-glutamine to 1,5-2 g each night but the effect was the same so I came back to 1g (morning and evening). So, I am sure that these small amounts make significant difference in anxiety reduction (that is my experience). Also, I noticed benefits in social anxiety reduction (like meeting people, looking them in the eyes etc). Before I did that with great deal of effort, but now it is not problem. It may be as well beneficial to ADHD, as some studies support this theory.
But, as with any supplement it may not work with everybody. For example, I have bad experience with GABA while some people on Google groups swear by it. We are all different.

regards,
mmb

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage tealady

Posted by JLx on October 17, 2004, at 17:40:04

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage JLx, posted by tealady on October 16, 2004, at 21:29:08

> Hey JL,
>
> Just came across your old post where you mentioned your suicide feeling reactions to glutamine.
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/261515.html

Hmm...interesting. Thanks for finding that. I hadn't remembered it being that bad, just as a bad day. But now I do remember that it scared me to be feeling suicidal again as I have not had that ideation otherwise since supplementing with magnesium (2 years now). I still marvel at that and wonder how many other people might benefit in the same way if they only knew.

What do you think it means that I am so sensitive to the excitoxicity potential of these things? The James South article says,

"Also, excessive free radicals can prevent glutamate uptake by astrocytes, thereby significantly (and dangerously) raising extra cellular glutamate levels (18). (18)."

I take Vit C, selenium, and Vit E every day. And other things like alpha lipoic acid too, though not as diligently. I also eat a fair amount of fruit.

This is what I'm worried about:

"Similarly, excitotoxin pioneer Olney has recently shown that there is a long, slow development of excitotoxic brain damage in Alzheimer's disease that occurs before the dramatic Alzheimer's symptoms of memory loss, disorientation, cognitive impairment, and emotional lability arise (10). So you must not assume that just because you don't notice any obvious symptoms when you consume MSG/aspartame -containing foods, there is no excitotoxic damage occurring. "

I did drink diet sodas for years. Whenever I quit I didn't notice feeling better so I'd start again thinking I didn't have an aspartame sensitivity. Now, since taking magnesium, I DO notice that drinking diet soda makes me irritable (so I don't usually). More magnesium seems to help that. Was it happening before and it was masked somehow, or did taking magnesium enable that glutamate to get in the cell where before it was blocked? Maybe by calcium? Boy, talk about flailing around in the dark! ;)

Besides magnesium, South recommends:

"Thus the basic pro-energy anti-excitotoxic program consists of 50-100 mg of B1, B2, B3, B5; 500-10,000 mcg of biotin; 100-300 mg alpha-lipoic acid; 50-300 mg CoQ10; 45-90 mg Idebenone; 10-30 mg sublingual ATP; 500-2000 mg acetyl l-carnitine; and 300-600 mg Magnesium; and 5-20 mg NADH."

I noticed on another thread you and others saying that the best kind of CoQ10 was in oil. I didn't know that. That stuff is so darn expensive. I have some dry stuff that I bought on sale and I thought I noticed that it did make me feel more energetic. B vitamins don't seem to make much difference to me, though I take them anyway. I haven't tried NADH, Idebenone, acetyl l-carnitine, or sublingual ATP. I can't afford a lot of new things but maybe I will buy some Idebenone given what he says here:

"Idebenone has also shown great power in protecting various types of neurons from free radical damage and other excitotoxic effects. Idebenone is able to protect neurons at levels 30-100 times less than the vitamin E levels needed to protect neurons from excitotoxic damage (33-37). One of the many ways excitotoxins damage neurons is to prevent the intracellular formation of glutathione, one of the most important cellular antioxidants. The combination of E and Idebenone provided complete antioxidant neuronal protection in spite of extremely low glutathione levels caused by glutamate excitotoxic action (33,34)."

I wonder if any of those would give me any zip? I've been fooling around with trypophan this week and it does make me feel pretty good, but almost too mellowed in a way, so then I take tyrosine but then I start craving carbs and get cranky too. And don't feel any more energy either.

He says further that NADH will also promote breakdown of glutamate excess, so maybe I should try that.

At the beginning of the article he says,

"Wheat gluten is 43% glutamate, the milk protein casein is 23% glutamate, and gelatin protein is 12% glutamate. (5)

I didn't know that about wheat and milk. Besides my former diet soda habit, I've eaten a lot of wheat and dairy too. Pizza is the perfect food, imo. :) I'm trying to avoid them now again, after falling off my "no grains, no dairy, no sugar" regimen this winter. I did feel good when I managed it and it didn't seem hard until I got stressed. Now it's been a real hard climb back. Right now I'm doing ok with no wheat and no sugar, but it doesn't feel easy and I'm still working on no dairy. Reading that Dr. Kaslow article had me thinking, "Ack, no nuts either?" That's really going to be a tough one as I eat cashews when I am feeling sorry for myself for not being able to eat hardly anything else that I really like. And cashews have that great magnesium/calcium ratio.

"The only way to keep your health is to eat what you don't want, drink what you don't like, and do what you'd rather not." -- Mark Twain

> Another user Ame ? posted this
> ~~AMINO ACIDS
> 1. Glutamine
> g.) Helps reduce cravings for sugar and alcohol, probably by providing energy for brain function.
>
> DOSAGE: 500mg two to three times daily

It does really work for sugar cravings. Joan Matthews Larson recommends it for those who are hypoglycemic, in "Depression Free Naturally" along with chromium, magnesium, B3, panthothenic acid and Vit. C, all of which I take. She says, take 2 capsules before lunch and dinner so that's 2 grams a day. She says alcoholics who use glutamine in this way do stop cravings for alcohol (she has a rehab clinic). In my family, both my brother and sister are alcoholics. And I am a sugar addict. I do best when I avoid it altogether.

Ran across an interesting article from your neck of the woods recently:

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/articles/serotonin_connection.html

I've never seen that site before, tons of stuff on there once you start clicking on the links.

JL

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage

Posted by mmb on October 18, 2004, at 8:14:31

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage tealady, posted by JLx on October 17, 2004, at 17:40:04

Hi JL,

take my advice - stop reading this crap tests or soon you will not be allowed to eat anything. I am so dissapointed with R&D industry that I am sick of their findings and results. As soon as someone gets a positive or negative result someone else finds out something totally different. No matter that they are PhDs or MDs I think they know as little as we, ordinary people, do. Just check the link that you provided for Omega and bipolar. Same testing can give you 5 different outcomes. This R&D industry is becoming ridicolous, really. BTW, did you know that during 1950's some established researchers claimed that smoking is healthy? This is how they work. A couple of days ago I read a study from Danmark I think where researchers concluded that supplementing antioxidants (vitamin C. E, selenium etc) does not make any difference what so ever on your health, either long term or short term. Can you belive that? So, take what's best for you and what makes you feel good. Forget all crazy theories from "researchers" that every second week find a different result for whatever they do. What can be worse than life long anxiety or depression?

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage

Posted by tealady on October 18, 2004, at 8:47:01

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage, posted by mmb on October 18, 2004, at 8:14:31


BTW, did you know that during 1950's some established researchers claimed that smoking is healthy?

yes, and during the 1920's? my grandmothers doctor advised her to take up smoking!..which is why she started. (and its known that most doctors did provide that advice in those days)
It worked great for sore throats..Still does...just they didn't know about the long term consequences then....

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage

Posted by mmb on October 18, 2004, at 10:39:52

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage, posted by tealady on October 18, 2004, at 8:47:01

just they didn't know about the long term consequences then....
>
come on tealady, of course they knew about consequences. Common sense, that's all there is to it. To inhale smoke into your lungs and stay healthy? One does not have to be doctor to answer this question, just use common sense. The proof that they knew comes these days in courts across America where lawyers sue tobacco industry for hiding truth about negative effects of smoking during 60's and 70's. It's just that they payed big bucks to some "researchers" to provide results that will tell us biased story. Pharmaceutical industry is a dirty industry. They provide research which only goal is to present a drug in best possible way. Or worse, it can go other way. They pay for proving how other drugs or supplements can cause fatal deaths or serious damage. Remember tryptophan? It worked and was banned forever. A couple of weeks later Prozac comes out and Bang! big money starts pouring in.I am really curious to find out how much independent research is being done these days (meaning not being funded by companies, or any other organization involved in any industry). I would be thankful for a link about this issue.

best,
mmb
>

 

Re: double double quotes mmb

Posted by Dr. Bob on October 19, 2004, at 1:08:06

In reply to Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety!, posted by mmb on October 16, 2004, at 17:33:19

> there is a book called "L-glutamine - The ultimate nutrient" By Judy Shabert, MD, RD and Nancy Ehrlich. You can find literally hundreds of links to health benefits of l-glutamine...

I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon

The first time anyone refers to a book, movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html

Thanks!

Bob

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage mmb

Posted by tealady on October 19, 2004, at 5:30:59

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage, posted by mmb on October 18, 2004, at 10:39:52

> just they didn't know about the long term consequences then....
> >
> come on tealady, of course they knew about consequences. Common sense, that's all there is to it. To inhale smoke into your lungs and stay healthy? One does not have to be doctor to answer this question, just use common sense. The proof that they knew comes these days in courts across America where lawyers sue tobacco industry for hiding truth about negative effects of smoking during 60's and 70's. It's just that they payed big bucks to some "researchers" to provide results that will tell us biased story. Pharmaceutical industry is a dirty industry. They provide research which only goal is to present a drug in best possible way. Or worse, it can go other way. They pay for proving how other drugs or supplements can cause fatal deaths or serious damage. Remember tryptophan? It worked and was banned forever. A couple of weeks later Prozac comes out and Bang! big money starts pouring in.I am really curious to find out how much independent research is being done these days (meaning not being funded by companies, or any other organization involved in any industry). I would be thankful for a link about this issue.
>
> best,
> mmb
> >
>
>


"BTW, this capsule of amino acid mix contains 822 mg of Glutamic acid together with all other amino acids"

Umm just wondering you on
2g L-glutamine(morning and night) + 822mg(afternoon)=2822 mg l-glutamine?

How do you take this afternoon amino acid mix? with food? or by itself?
Also what else is in the mix? Any tyrosine? Phenylalanine? and how much?
Just wondering

Jan

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage

Posted by mmb on October 19, 2004, at 12:35:26

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage mmb, posted by tealady on October 19, 2004, at 5:30:59

> "BTW, this capsule of amino acid mix contains 822 mg of Glutamic acid together with all other amino acids"
>
> Umm just wondering you on
> 2g L-glutamine(morning and night) + 822mg(afternoon)=2822 mg l-glutamine?
>
> How do you take this afternoon amino acid mix? with food? or by itself?
> Also what else is in the mix? Any tyrosine? Phenylalanine? and how much?
> Just wondering
>
> Jan
>
>
Here is the whole content:
Glycin 1801 mg
Alanine 627 mg
Valine 180 mg
Leucin 231 mg
Izoleucin 101 mg
Cystein 7 mg
Methionine 72 mg
Phenylalanine 159 mg
Proline 1298 mg
Hydroxiproline 1016 mg
Serine 29 mg
Treonine 137 mg
Tyrosine 36 mg
Asparganic acid 476 mg
Glutamic acid 822 mg
Arginine 584 mg
Lysine 728 mg
Histidine 58 mg
Ornitine 60 mg
Carnitine 15 mg

I take this at about 2 pm, some 2 hours after lunch. What I miss in this mix is Tryptophan and I checked some web sites for new mix of amino acids containing tryptophan. On the box it recommneds taking 3 tablets daily (above is mg for 1 tablet) as a dietary supplement.
Regarding Glutamic acid and glutamine I still think this is low. We are suppose to have 100.000 mg of this stuff in our bodies. My diet is not so rich in protein (I rarely drink milk, eat eggs or meat) and that's why this mix suits me I guess...

I also have one question that I could not find answer to regarding L-glutamine. In all documents it says that it is conditionally essential amino acid because under some conditions like stress, severe trauma, surgery, supplementation can be helpful. But what about emotional stress? What I noticed is that it gave me energy back after looooong period of stress? So question - it may be helpful with physical stress like training,surgery but what about emotional stress? Any links?
>
>regards,
mmb
>
>

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage mmb

Posted by JLx on October 19, 2004, at 19:27:02

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage, posted by mmb on October 18, 2004, at 8:14:31

> Hi JL,
>
> take my advice - stop reading this crap tests or soon you will not be allowed to eat anything. I am so dissapointed with R&D industry that I am sick of their findings and results. As soon as someone gets a positive or negative result someone else finds out something totally different. No matter that they are PhDs or MDs I think they know as little as we, ordinary people, do. Just check the link that you provided for Omega and bipolar. Same testing can give you 5 different outcomes. This R&D industry is becoming ridicolous, really. BTW, did you know that during 1950's some established researchers claimed that smoking is healthy? This is how they work. A couple of days ago I read a study from Danmark I think where researchers concluded that supplementing antioxidants (vitamin C. E, selenium etc) does not make any difference what so ever on your health, either long term or short term. Can you belive that? So, take what's best for you and what makes you feel good. Forget all crazy theories from "researchers" that every second week find a different result for whatever they do. What can be worse than life long anxiety or depression?

Well, I think there's some value in the research, it's just a matter of sorting the bits and pieces. A lot of times when you find out the details of a study you can see why they got different results. And when it comes to alternative med, it's supposed to be holistic, so when they treat something like Omega-3 for depression as a med, of course that skews the results. Perhaps the people for whom it didn't work for instance, also needed something like magnesium. Or even, maybe they just were having some extra stress in their lives. Which is not to say that Omega-3 works for everybody, just that before someone says it doesn't work they should control for all possible variables, which isn't really possible. I think people should experiment on their own with something that sounds likely rather than listen to allopathic medicine gurus who say it doesn't work. If I had listened to my doctor I would be still suicidal! (Magnesium prevents suicide ideation for me.)

I've gleaned a lot from lots of the stuff that I look up or that people post here, just remembering to keep questioning and take some things with a grain of salt.

JL

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage mmb

Posted by JLx on October 19, 2004, at 20:39:01

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage, posted by mmb on October 18, 2004, at 10:39:52

> just they didn't know about the long term consequences then....
> >
> come on tealady, of course they knew about consequences. Common sense, that's all there is to it. To inhale smoke into your lungs and stay healthy? One does not have to be doctor to answer this question, just use common sense. The proof that they knew comes these days in courts across America where lawyers sue tobacco industry for hiding truth about negative effects of smoking during 60's and 70's. It's just that they payed big bucks to some "researchers" to provide results that will tell us biased story. Pharmaceutical industry is a dirty industry. They provide research which only goal is to present a drug in best possible way. Or worse, it can go other way. They pay for proving how other drugs or supplements can cause fatal deaths or serious damage. Remember tryptophan? It worked and was banned forever. A couple of weeks later Prozac comes out and Bang! big money starts pouring in.I am really curious to find out how much independent research is being done these days (meaning not being funded by companies, or any other organization involved in any industry). I would be thankful for a link about this issue.
>
> best,
> mmb

There's a new book out that sounds interesting: "The Truth About the Drug Companies: How They Deceive Us and What to Do About It" The author, Marcia Angell, used to be an editor for the New England Journal of Medicine.

Here's an excerpt: http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/19540/

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage mmb

Posted by gromit on October 20, 2004, at 2:19:27

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage, posted by mmb on October 19, 2004, at 12:35:26


> I take this at about 2 pm, some 2 hours after lunch. What I miss in this mix is Tryptophan and I checked some web sites for new mix of amino acids containing tryptophan. On the box it recommneds taking 3 tablets daily (above is mg for 1 tablet) as a dietary supplement.

I don't think you want to take Tryptophan at the same time you take other amino acids though. I think it gets the short end of the stick when it comes to absorption. I have read you should take it on an empty stomach along with some carbs, juice or whatever.

Rick

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage

Posted by mmb on October 20, 2004, at 13:30:13

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage mmb, posted by gromit on October 20, 2004, at 2:19:27

>
> > I take this at about 2 pm, some 2 hours after lunch. What I miss in this mix is Tryptophan and I checked some web sites for new mix of amino acids containing tryptophan. On the box it recommneds taking 3 tablets daily (above is mg for 1 tablet) as a dietary supplement.
>
> I don't think you want to take Tryptophan at the same time you take other amino acids though. I think it gets the short end of the stick when it comes to absorption. I have read you should take it on an empty stomach along with some carbs, juice or whatever.
>
> Rick
>

The problem is that Tryptophan alone is almost impossible to buy. There are some web sites that offer it for 80$ outside US, but that's way too high. For me even 5HTP is highly priced that's why I stopped taking it. What I thought is that tryptophan naturally occurs in these amino mixes (check out Vege Fuel from Twinlabs for example) they do not add it, it just naturally occurs from other aminos (I think?). I do not expect some big results from it being taken with other aminos, it's just to have complete set of all aminos (as I said I drink milk and eat meat rarely).

 

Re: L-glutamine dosage mmb

Posted by gromit on October 22, 2004, at 22:21:14

In reply to Re: L-glutamine dosage, posted by mmb on October 20, 2004, at 13:30:13

> The problem is that Tryptophan alone is almost impossible to buy. There are some web sites that offer it for 80$ outside US, but that's way too high. For me even 5HTP is highly priced that's why I stopped taking it. What I thought is that tryptophan naturally occurs in these amino mixes (check out Vege Fuel from Twinlabs for example) they do not add it, it just naturally occurs from other aminos (I think?). I do not expect some big results from it being taken with other aminos, it's just to have complete set of all aminos (as I said I drink milk and eat meat rarely).

Here is one place to get it cheap http://www.buygpdirect.com/gpefeed.htm towards the bottom there is Ultra Pure Tryptophan. I know it is supposed to be for horses but others on this board were taking it with good results.

 

Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety!

Posted by TarAtee on April 2, 2016, at 10:00:57

In reply to L-glutamine helped me with anxiety!, posted by mmb on October 15, 2004, at 17:30:51

Just found this post and would like to know if aminos still working for anxiety years later?

 

Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety! TarAtee

Posted by Escapee on August 17, 2017, at 18:14:14

In reply to Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety!, posted by TarAtee on April 2, 2016, at 10:00:57

> Just found this post and would like to know if aminos still working for anxiety years later?

I doubt it. You will be taking aminos for the rest of your life via your diet. I cant see anyone having a blunting effect from serotonin as they get older on a diet rich in L-Tryptophan. In fact taken long term I wouldimagine an upregulation of transmission as your brain gets used to the processing of the extra L-tryptophan.
Not science just what I think

 

Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety! mmb

Posted by Escapee on August 17, 2017, at 18:20:49

In reply to L-glutamine helped me with anxiety!, posted by mmb on October 15, 2004, at 17:30:51

According to Patrick Holford L-glutamine / glutamic acid is the ONLY other form of energy your brain can use as clean energy, should glucose be low.(The Optimum Nutritional Bible)
I take 12g daily on an empty gut along with my other (best taken on an empty gut) supplements.

 

Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety!

Posted by Escapee on August 17, 2017, at 18:23:11

In reply to Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety! TarAtee, posted by Escapee on August 17, 2017, at 18:14:14

> I doubt it.
>

ha-ha I meant MOST PROBABLY!

 

Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety!

Posted by MightyKondrian on August 17, 2017, at 22:05:14

In reply to Re: L-glutamine helped me with anxiety! TarAtee, posted by Escapee on August 17, 2017, at 18:14:14

> > Just found this post and would like to know if aminos still working for anxiety years later?
>
> I doubt it. You will be taking amino's for the rest of your life via your diet. I cant see anyone having a blunting effect from serotonin as they get older on a diet rich in L-Tryptophan. In fact taken long term I would imagine an up-regulation of transmission as your brain gets used to the processing of the extra L-tryptophan.
> Not science just what I think
>
>

L-tryptophan combined with a high carb/low protein diet that is. Needed to turn up the ratio of L-tryptophan in the blood and thus cross the bbb in plentiful amounts. Funny how nobody on Optimax aren't told this. Probably why it rarely works.


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