Psycho-Babble Alternative Thread 1092673

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Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings

Posted by Mtom on October 18, 2016, at 12:41:55

I'm hypersensitive. Antidepressants make me feel ill, agitated, anxious, more intense mood swings, etc. etc. Even supplements known to promote neurotransmitter levels or activity do this e.g. 5HTP & St. John's Wort.

Consulted with Naturopaths and attempting to treat depression (with anxiety) through nutritional supplements - but over time, same symptoms as above - especially anxiety and mood swings into sometimes deeper depression - have worsened.

Been taking:
- Curcumin 2 x 500 mg
- B-6 - 200 mg daily
- Folic Acid 2000 mg daily
- Niacin - 350 mg (non-flushing form according to Naturopath)
- B-12 - 1000 mg daily (was taking 2000 for a while)
- other B's at lower dosages
Omega 3 - 1500 mg EPA & 500 mg DHA (was taking twice that for a while too on Naturopath recommendation, but backed it off a few weeks ago)
- Vitamin C - 500 mg (a bit inconsistently)

Was also taking L-Theanine 250 mg initially twice/day, backed it off to once per day, stopped a week ago.

I've read some of the B-vitamins are precursors to neurotransmitters? Thoughts? Also what about the other supplements - remembering I am hypersensitive? Everything I read about Curcumin seems to rule it out as having such side effects. Omega-3's?

(Note: I tried posting a similar but briefer post a while ago but it seemed to disappear, at least I can't find it, so apologize if repetitive)

 

Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings Mtom

Posted by SLS on October 18, 2016, at 14:35:44

In reply to Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings, posted by Mtom on October 18, 2016, at 12:41:55

Has your doctor considered that you might have bipolar disorder? People with bipolar disorder are often very sensitive to antidepressants in the ways you describe. If this is true, you will need to develop a different strategy to treat it, and, for the moment, avoid serotonergic antidepressants and other serotonergic substances (5-HTP and St. John's Wort).

Perhaps you should have a series of routine tests performed to check for endocrine or other conditions. I'm thinking that you should check for thyroid and adrenal function.


- Scott

 

Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings

Posted by Mtom on October 18, 2016, at 15:45:10

In reply to Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings Mtom, posted by SLS on October 18, 2016, at 14:35:44

> Has your doctor considered that you might have bipolar disorder? People with bipolar disorder are often very sensitive to antidepressants in the ways you describe. If this is true, you will need to develop a different strategy to treat it, and, for the moment, avoid serotonergic antidepressants and other serotonergic substances (5-HTP and St. John's Wort).
>
> Perhaps you should have a series of routine tests performed to check for endocrine or other conditions. I'm thinking that you should check for thyroid and adrenal function.
>
>
> - Scott

Thanks Scott. I have been tested for thyroid and adrenal function (morning/late afternoon cortisone or was it cortisol?). I do not believe I am bipolar. I don't get "manic" - no high energy states, no euphoria, no uninhibited behaviour (although I do get angry easily these days, but that feels more like a fight/flight response associated with the depression and anxiety).

I had a Naturopathic test years ago that indicated my liver Phase 1 Detox P450 enzyme system was not functioning properly. I have speculated with Doctors since on whether that may in part explain my hypersensitivity, I'm not clearing things normally. I could not tolerate hormones, even "natural" forms, when I went through menopause either. It's very frustrating.

 

Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings

Posted by Christ_empowered on October 18, 2016, at 18:00:36

In reply to Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings, posted by Mtom on October 18, 2016, at 12:41:55

hi. 5htp and saint john's wort, sam-e, amino acids, etc. can be very potent and have adverse effects in some people.

Personally...I do old school Orthomolecular. Its massive doses c, b3, b-100 complex, etc. etc. etc. I have Bipolar I and it makes the meds more tolerable and I get more mileage out of the meds.

Now..thing about that is...I do well with the vitamins (old school Orthomolecular is all about the vitamins, lol), but I didn't do so well on herbs (kava kava, valerian, saint john's wort) or 5htp. I did take taurine for a while, and that was OK...kinda sedating...but I did it with the mega dosed vitamins, so I think probably prevented any major adverse effects.

I dunno. I'm no kinda expert...I just kinda pieced together my own massive dose Orthomolecular program based on Hoffer's writings...but maybe try to focus more on vitamins, which your body is designed to work with, rather than herbs and amino acids?

Also...again, not an expert, but...the orthomoelcular people say that if you mega dose one vitamin, you should consider ramping up doses of the other. This is definitely true of B-complex vitamins (according to the orthomolecular people, anyway), and I seem to recall reading that its true of some other substances too, such as the various carotenoids.

This is all I can come up with. Good luck!

 

Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings

Posted by Hugh on October 19, 2016, at 12:50:00

In reply to Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings, posted by Mtom on October 18, 2016, at 12:41:55

I'm also hypersensitive to many medicines and supplements. Pills that affect serotonin and/or norepinephrine either don't help me or they make me feel worse. You might try P-5-P, which is an activated form of vitamin B6. This helped me a lot for three months, and then my brain became habituated to it.

When I start a new medicine (other than antibiotics) or supplement, I'll take a half dose or even a quarter dose, since I'm hypersensitive, and then gradually increase it.

Or you might try a pill-free approach. The treatment that's helped my depression and anxiety the most is neurofeedback.

 

Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings

Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 20, 2016, at 1:02:52

In reply to Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings, posted by Mtom on October 18, 2016, at 12:41:55

the b-12, b-6, and folic acid are defeintly are strong part in making you agitated, i thought b-12 vitamins was going to make more neurotransmitters, no no no....it just made me wired, and irrtible, all the b vitamins are for energy, but they really can cause symptoms like hot flashes, and irrtibility if taken together with eachother.....try to wean off folic acid and b-6, those are the main ones that can cause agitation, b-12 maybe stay where you are......

they are persecuers but they don't really have a direct, and it seems the more you would take them the more nuerotransmitters, they do but taking it together in some people will cause unplesant agitation......

look into magnesium because it's a good nerve-calming effect, similar to lithium but not as psychoactive

 

Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings

Posted by Hugh on October 27, 2016, at 11:56:30

In reply to Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings, posted by Mtom on October 18, 2016, at 12:41:55

A supplement I started taking recently is improving my mood. It's called cetyl myristoleate. It's an esterified fatty acid that's supposed to increase IL-10 (an anti-inflammatory) production. Most people take it for arthritis. Two-thirds of people with depression have high levels of inflammation, so anti-inflammatories are now being studied as a treatment for depression.

The cetyl myristoleate dosage I take is far lower than the suggested one.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-celadrin-90-sgels

 

Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings

Posted by mako23 on October 27, 2016, at 18:33:26

In reply to Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings, posted by Mtom on October 18, 2016, at 12:41:55

I have found that high does of vitamin B has increased my anxiety in the past

 

Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings Mtom

Posted by SLS on October 28, 2016, at 7:16:18

In reply to Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings, posted by Mtom on October 18, 2016, at 15:45:10

> > Has your doctor considered that you might have bipolar disorder? People with bipolar disorder are often very sensitive to antidepressants in the ways you describe. If this is true, you will need to develop a different strategy to treat it, and, for the moment, avoid serotonergic antidepressants and other serotonergic substances (5-HTP and St. John's Wort).
> >
> > Perhaps you should have a series of routine tests performed to check for endocrine or other conditions. I'm thinking that you should check for thyroid and adrenal function.

> Thanks Scott. I have been tested for thyroid and adrenal function (morning/late afternoon cortisone or was it cortisol?). I do not believe I am bipolar. I don't get "manic" - no high energy states, no euphoria, no uninhibited behaviour

It sometimes occurs that someone will not display classic mania or hypomania, yet be bipolar. I like Hagop Akiskal's concept of a bipolar spectrum. For me, I never become manic unless it is triggered by antidepressant drugs. In the DSM 5, there is a qualifier that states that bipolar disorder can indeed present this way. Some bipolar diagnostic schemes state that there is a form of bipolar disorder that presents with depression only. This might occur if the diathesis (underlying cause) for the illness is bipolar. Emil Kraeplin's original description of recurrent depression was that it was an expression of manic-depression (not bipolar disorder per se). Okay, having said all of that, it must be understood that mania and hypomania can present as a mixed-state. A mixed state is a presentation of bipolar disorder where there is no euphoria, However, there is agitation, anger, rage attacks, impatience, anhedonia, racing thoughts, high-energy, and other symptoms that are sometimes described as manic-dysphoria or dysphoric mania. A mixed-state is conceptualized as a mixture of both depressive and manic states. My antidepressant-induced manias are not at all euphoric, but more of a dysphoric mania that can develop into psychosis if not treated.

I hope you can figure this thing out.

Good luck. I hope you continue posting your progress.


- Scott

 

High dose Omega-3? Re:.. supplements causing..

Posted by Mtom on November 16, 2016, at 8:41:02

In reply to Re: Which my supplements causing agitation/mood swings, posted by mako23 on October 27, 2016, at 18:33:26

What about the high dose omega-3? I recently read 1 published Case Study about exacerbation of anxiety & insomnia associated with high EPA, plus a number of anecdotal reports about worsening mood symptoms in rare cases with fish oil supplementation. My Naturopath has had me on doses much, much higher than I used to take. I stopped everything for several weeks, hard to say if I improved because I go through better and worse periods anyway. Then I reintroduced my "pre-Naturopath" Multi-Vitamin I took for many years containing modest to moderate amounts of B Vitamins, and the High EPA oil but 1/2 the Naturopath recommended dose. My mood swings seem to be worsening.

I should mention, I have also been dealing with situational stresses in recent years, e.g. family relationship & health issues, etc. But my mood had already been slipping before these. Both have worsened - mood and stresses - and probably there is now an interaction going on (stress causing mood issues; mood issues detracting from my "relating/coping" skills).

One last comment re suggestion of possible Bi-Polar - I also do not have racing thoughts or high energy periods, nor most other symptoms associated with Bi-Polar (other than anger which accompanies worsening mood and I feel might be fight/flight associated).

 

Re: High dose Omega-3? Re:.. supplements causing..

Posted by Lamdage22 on November 19, 2016, at 9:06:09

In reply to High dose Omega-3? Re:.. supplements causing.., posted by Mtom on November 16, 2016, at 8:41:02

EPA seems to make me worse, too.


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