Psycho-Babble Alternative Thread 681276

Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

cinnamon a stimulant?

Posted by qqqsimmons on August 29, 2006, at 19:23:52

i started taking cinnamon cuz it was supposed to help blood sugar, but have noticed a stimulating effect? anyone tried it and experienced this?

 

Re: cinnamon a stimulant?

Posted by linkadge on August 29, 2006, at 21:14:22

In reply to cinnamon a stimulant?, posted by qqqsimmons on August 29, 2006, at 19:23:52

Yes I have noticed this. I'm not sure but I thought I read somewhere that it contains thebromine?

I think it might be a mild MAOI too, at least that was some of the effect I detected. It is a GSK-3b inhibitor which I hear can have acute stimulant like effects.

Linkadge

 

Re: cinnamon a stimulant? bilberry fruit extract

Posted by qqqsimmons on August 30, 2006, at 14:49:19

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant?, posted by linkadge on August 29, 2006, at 21:14:22

yeah, i'm having an unusual hypomanic episode as if i took too many anti-depressants, too much norepinephrine or something...this happened six months ago, and i got really shaky after a few days poor sleep...

i think this bilberry fruit extract does something too. this is the cheap bilberry extract (not standardized for anthocyanins).

 

Re: cinnamon a stimulant? bilberry fruit extract

Posted by linkadge on August 31, 2006, at 16:33:25

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant? bilberry fruit extract, posted by qqqsimmons on August 30, 2006, at 14:49:19

Yeah, billberry and blueberry contain compounds that enhance dopamine release, anthocyannins, and anthocyanidins (?)

Linkadge

 

Re: cinnamon a stimulant? bilberry fruit extract

Posted by qqqsimmons on August 31, 2006, at 17:17:07

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant? bilberry fruit extract, posted by linkadge on August 31, 2006, at 16:33:25

wow, i never imagined bilberry could cause excess dopamine and mania...

perhaps it didn't help that i put the fruit extract between my cheek and gum. it felt like it went straight to my brain.

had to take a bunch of taurine yesterday. probably a dose of lithium would help even more...

 

Re: cinnamon a stimulant? bilberry fruit extract

Posted by Declan on September 1, 2006, at 17:32:11

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant? bilberry fruit extract, posted by qqqsimmons on August 31, 2006, at 17:17:07

I made a tea of bilberry, schizandra and goji berries and it kept me awake.
Maybe it was the bilberries?

 

Re: cinnamon a stimulant? bilberry fruit extract

Posted by qqqsimmons on September 2, 2006, at 9:30:03

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant? bilberry fruit extract, posted by Declan on September 1, 2006, at 17:32:11

i don't know about goji berries, but i guess schisandra is sometimes used to treat insomnia.

i'm a bit disappointed that bilberry extract can lead to overstimulation. it also has dramatic anti-inflammatory effect on my digestive system.

i wonder what other anti-oxidant rich stuff has similar effects on dopamine levels. is quercetin a stimulant?

 

Re: cinnamon a stimulant?

Posted by notfred on September 2, 2006, at 19:00:08

In reply to cinnamon a stimulant?, posted by qqqsimmons on August 29, 2006, at 19:23:52

Perhaps, cinnamon contains eugenol or 4-allylguaiacol, and safrole, or 4-allyl-1,2-methylenedioxybenzene.
Each is almost an amphetamine:

<quote>

A final comment. But maybe a long one! Elsewhere, I have made comparisons between myristicin and MMDA, and between safrole and MDA. And here there is a similar parallel between elemicin and TMA. What are these relationships between the essential oils and the amphetamines? In a word, there are some ten essential oils that have a three carbon chain, and each lacks only a molecule of ammonia to become an amphetamine

2) The 3,4-dimethoxy pattern. The main actor here is methyleugenol, or 4-allyl-1,2-dimethoxybenzene. This is located in almost every item in the spice cabinet. It is in citronella, bay (which is laurel, which is myrtle), pimiento, allspice, pepper, tree-tea oil, and on and on. It has a faint smell of cloves, and when dilute is immediately mistaken for carnations. The propenyl analogue is, not unreasonably, methylisoeugenol, a bit more scarce, and seems to always be that little minor peak in any essential oil analysis. The compounds missing that methyl group on the 4-oxygen are famous. The allyl material is eugenol, 4-allylguaiacol, and it is in cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves, sassafras and myrrh. You taste it and it burns. You smell it and think immediately of cloves. And its property as an anesthetic, in the form of a clove, is well known in the folk-treatment of toothaches. Actually, flowers of clove (the gillyflower, like the carnation) are the small, pointy things that decorate baked hams and, when stuck into apples, make pomander balls. This anesthetic property has recently led to a drug abuse fad, called clove cigarettes. Very strong, very flavorful, and very corrosive things from Southeast Asia. The eugenol that is present numbs the throat, and allows many strong cigarettes to be smoked without pain. The propenyl analogue is isoeugenol, with a smell that is subtle but very long lasting, used more in soaps and perfumes than in foods. The amine addition to the methyleugenol world produces 3,4-dimethoxyamphetamine, or 3,4-DMA. The isomer with the other methyl group missing is chavibetol (3-hydroxy-4-methoxyallylbenzene) and is found in the pepper leaf that is used with betel nut. A couple of positional rearrangement isomers of methyleugenol are known in the plant world. The 2,4-isomer is called osmorrhizole, and the conjugated form is isoosmorrhizole or nothosmyrnol; both are found in carrot-like vegetables. They, with ammonia, would give 2,4-DMA. And the 3,5-dimethoxyallylbenzene isomer from artemisia (a pungent herb commonly called mugwort) and from sage, would give rise to 3,5-DMA. This is an unexplored isomer which would be both an antidote for opium as well as a stimulant, if the classical reputation of mugwort is transferred to the amphetamine.

(3) The 3,4-methylenedioxy pattern. One of the most famous essential oils is safrole, or 4-allyl-1,2-methylenedioxybenzene. This is the mainstay of sassafras oil, and it and its conjugated isomer isosafrole have a smell that is immediately familiar: root beer! These are among the most widely distributed essential oils, being present in most of the spices, including the heavies such as cinnamon and nutmeg. I am not aware of the 2,3-isomer ever having been found in nature. Adding ammonia to either would give MDA, 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine.

 

Re: cinnamon a stimulant?

Posted by linkadge on September 3, 2006, at 12:39:28

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant?, posted by notfred on September 2, 2006, at 19:00:08

No, quercitin isn't a stimulant. I have heard some sources refer to it as a sedative. It has antispasmotic properties, and I think it is a PKC inhibitor.

It is a COMT inhibitor, and an MAO-A inhibitor too. It has antidepressant properties, but overall I don't think it is activating, though you can try for yourself.

Linkadge

 

Re: quercetin

Posted by qqqsimmons on September 3, 2006, at 12:50:00

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant?, posted by linkadge on September 3, 2006, at 12:39:28

if quercetin is a mao-a inhibitor, wouldn't that have stimulating effects? that should increase epinephrine and norepinephrine...i imagine that it could lead to hypomania...

the weird thing i've noticed about quercetin is it seems to make me light-headed. do you think this is cuz it lowers blood pressure? it also does interesting things to my GI tract...

i wanted to take it for my allergies, but got too light-headed...

> No, quercitin isn't a stimulant. I have heard some sources refer to it as a sedative. It has antispasmotic properties, and I think it is a PKC inhibitor.
>
> It is a COMT inhibitor, and an MAO-A inhibitor too. It has antidepressant properties, but overall I don't think it is activating, though you can try for yourself.
>
> Linkadge

 

Re: cinnamon a stimulant?

Posted by notfred on September 3, 2006, at 13:05:41

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant?, posted by linkadge on September 3, 2006, at 12:39:28

> No, quercitin isn't a stimulant.


does it contain either eugenol or 4-allylguaiacol, and safrole, or 4-allyl-1,2-methylenedioxybenzene. ?

There is some evidence that the body may metabolize
safrole by adding an amamonia atom. This produces an amphetamine which is metabolized to amphetimine itself.

 

bilberry, OPCs, resveratrol » qqqsimmons

Posted by Declan on September 3, 2006, at 14:30:09

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant? bilberry fruit extract, posted by qqqsimmons on September 2, 2006, at 9:30:03

There's a bloke round here who's had a stroke and gotten good results from blueberries, so I've heard but dunno why.

I'm taking resveratrol with grape seed-skin extract. It might be the latter that seems to be having a good effect on my allergies.

 

Rutin, Quercetin etc

Posted by Declan on September 3, 2006, at 14:35:35

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant?, posted by notfred on September 2, 2006, at 19:00:08

Rutin is a stimulant, so I've been careful with similar things. One is beta-hydroxy-rutosides, used for venous insufficiency, haemmorrhoids and stuff, which didn't seem to be a stimulant. And I can't recall quercetin being a stimulant (but that doesn't mean a lot). I'd like to get the chalcone(nice word, hey?) form of quercetin, the soluable form.

 

Re: cinnamon a stimulant?

Posted by linkadge on September 4, 2006, at 5:46:23

In reply to Re: cinnamon a stimulant?, posted by notfred on September 3, 2006, at 13:05:41

>does it contain either eugenol or 4->allylguaiacol, and safrole, or 4-allyl-1,2->methylenedioxybenzene. ?

I really wouldn't know. Thought its not related to cinnamon in any way. Quercetin is in apples and garlic.

Linkadge

 

Re: Rutin, Quercetin etc

Posted by linkadge on September 4, 2006, at 5:55:30

In reply to Rutin, Quercetin etc, posted by Declan on September 3, 2006, at 14:35:35

I've heard quercetin described as a natural sedative. It is supposedly neuroprotective by regulating intracellular calcium (or something). I personally found it calming but not sedating. Its not really stimulating, as I have used it at bedtime to help sleep. I know it is a strong PKC inhibitor which could be responsable for its calming action.

Quercetin and resveratrol are being tested for their ability to mimic the effects of caloric resctriction on lifespan.

I don't know how strong the MAO-A inhibition is comparitively. Althought I did find it helped depression, it was nothing like parnate. I think turmeric is a stronger MAO inhibitor, and it is more alerting/stimulating.


The anthocyannins in blueberries promote neurogenesis. They are listed on the www.hdlighthouse.org website, as a treatment for Huntington's disease.

They do help cognition, I found blueberry extract to cause a little bit of dysphoria, but I did find they helped concentration/learning.

Supposedly, they have the ability to reverse certain age related cognitive deficits.

Linkadge

 

Re: anthocyanins

Posted by qqqsimmons on September 4, 2006, at 19:29:09

In reply to Re: Rutin, Quercetin etc, posted by linkadge on September 4, 2006, at 5:55:30

yeah, i bought high-anthocyanin bilberry extract upon hearing that stuff about neurogenesis. but i felt absolutely no psychoactive effect and was thus disappointed. who knows, maybe there was neurogenesis going on and i just couldn't "feel" it, or notice it in my daily performance...

the other cheapo bilberry fruit extract (which was apparently low anthocyanin cuz the powder was not even purple) gave me the weird hypomania, i think, and the light feeling in my GI tract definitely...

it's this latter feeling i associate with quercetin...perhaps i have intestinal inflammation due to food allergies???...

 

Re: Quercetin, Substance P, sleep?

Posted by qqqsimmons on September 4, 2006, at 19:43:09

In reply to Re: Rutin, Quercetin etc, posted by linkadge on September 4, 2006, at 5:55:30

Hmm, wellnessresources.com claims that quercetin "may help to clear the nerves of a stress chemical known as Substance P, thus helping individuals get a better night’s sleep."

i can get light-headed from quercetin...

i'm not sure what this below study is all about, and what it might mean to quercetin supplementation. any ideas?

Effect of quercetin on plasma extravasation in rat CNS and dura mater by ACE and NEP inhibition.
Medscape Newsletters

Phytother Res. 2002; 16(6):545-9 (ISSN: 0951-418X)
Cyrino LA; Cardoso RC; Hackl LP; Nicolau M
Department of Physiology, CCB, Federal University of Santa Catarina, 88040-900 Florianópolis, Brazil.

The effects of quercetin on substance P-induced plasma protein extravasation (PE) in the rat dura mater, cerebellum, olfactory bulb and cortex and also its modulation by endopeptidases, angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) and neutral endopeptidase (NEP) were studied. PE was assessed by photometric measurement of extravasated Evans blue. Substance P (SP) and NEP or ACE inhibitors increased the PE in dura mater. Pretreatment with captopril or phosphoramidon potentiated PE induced by SP in the dura mater and cerebellum, respectively. Quercetin increased the PE in the dura mater, cerebellum and cortex. Further results suggested that the PE induced by SP in the dura mater was enhanced by pretreatment with quercetin, similar to that observed with selective peptidase inhibitors. Quercetin-stimulated extravasation in all tissues was abolished by NK-1 receptor blockade. These results suggest that quercetin increases PE in the dura mater and CNS tissues by inhibiting NEP and/or ACE, showing that the effect induced in the dura mater, cerebellum and cortex occurs through endogenous SP accumulation.



This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.