Psycho-Babble Alternative Thread 457419

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Holy Basil

Posted by Sarah T. on February 13, 2005, at 23:36:12

Has anyone here tried Holy Basil, also known as "Ocimum sanctum" or "Tulsi"? I wish I could learn more about it. Unfortunately, there isn't much information about it, and a lot of the information that is available is provided by places that sell the product, so I tend to take what they say as advertisement rather than trusted facts. Holy Basil is supposed to lower cortisol and has some anti-inflammatory properties.

 

Re: Holy Basil » Sarah T.

Posted by Chris O on February 14, 2005, at 1:19:12

In reply to Holy Basil, posted by Sarah T. on February 13, 2005, at 23:36:12

Sarah:

I took a whole bottle of the New Chapter Holy Basil and noticed nothing. Of course, it could have affected my cortisol and inflamation response unbeknownst to me, but I did not notice anything, nothing visible. I have read others on this board say it relaxes them. There don't seem to be any studies out there indicating it has any real affect on cortisol; I have looked too. On the plus side, it probably isn't harmful, so it's worth a try.

Good luck,
Chris

> Has anyone here tried Holy Basil, also known as "Ocimum sanctum" or "Tulsi"? I wish I could learn more about it. Unfortunately, there isn't much information about it, and a lot of the information that is available is provided by places that sell the product, so I tend to take what they say as advertisement rather than trusted facts. Holy Basil is supposed to lower cortisol and has some anti-inflammatory properties.

 

Re: Holy Basil » Sarah T.

Posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 6:58:23

In reply to Holy Basil, posted by Sarah T. on February 13, 2005, at 23:36:12

> Has anyone here tried Holy Basil, also known as "Ocimum sanctum" or "Tulsi"? I wish I could learn more about it. Unfortunately, there isn't much information about it, and a lot of the information that is available is provided by places that sell the product, so I tend to take what they say as advertisement rather than trusted facts. Holy Basil is supposed to lower cortisol and has some anti-inflammatory properties.

It both lowers cortisol, and has anti-inflammatory properties. It may also improve type-2 diabetes.

Here's a tip. When you know the species name of a plant (e.g. Ocimum sanctum), go to Pubmed at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi and just plug than species name in. In this case, five pages of hits, and the first few abstracts confirm the claims. If you want to explore a particular aspect of one abstract more fully, click on "Related Articles", and there's a fair to good chance you'll be linked to more articles of that theme (not always....I'm not sure how they determine what is "related").

I've never used this stuff, by the way. And you also should know that herbs should be taken only for limited periods, absent medical supervision. Typical patterns of use are two periods on, one period off. E.g. use for two weeks, one week break. Use for two months, one month break. It varies a bit between different herbs, but taking breaks minimizes chronic side effect issues.

Lar

 

Re: Holy Basil » Chris O

Posted by Sarah T. on February 15, 2005, at 0:18:14

In reply to Re: Holy Basil » Sarah T., posted by Chris O on February 14, 2005, at 1:19:12

Chris O, hi. You said that the Holy Basil isn't harmful. That's what I want to find out. I want to read a lot more about it before I take it. I wonder whether it can be combined with other more traditional medications.

 

Re: Holy Basil » Larry Hoover

Posted by Sarah T. on February 15, 2005, at 0:35:27

In reply to Re: Holy Basil » Sarah T., posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 6:58:23

Larry, thank you for your help. I am interested in Holy Basil for both the cortisol lowering and anti-inflammatory properties. My concern is that it is a COX-2 inhibitor. A few months ago, that wouldn't have worried me so much. Now that several COX-2 inhibitors (Vioxx, Bextra, Celebrex) have been withdrawn from the market due to an increased incidence of strokes and heart attacks, I am not too eager to take a COX-2 inhibitor, even if it is in the form of an alternative medicine.

 

Re: Holy Basil » Sarah T.

Posted by Larry Hoover on February 15, 2005, at 8:59:04

In reply to Re: Holy Basil » Larry Hoover, posted by Sarah T. on February 15, 2005, at 0:35:27

> Larry, thank you for your help. I am interested in Holy Basil for both the cortisol lowering and anti-inflammatory properties. My concern is that it is a COX-2 inhibitor. A few months ago, that wouldn't have worried me so much. Now that several COX-2 inhibitors (Vioxx, Bextra, Celebrex) have been withdrawn from the market due to an increased incidence of strokes and heart attacks, I am not too eager to take a COX-2 inhibitor, even if it is in the form of an alternative medicine.

Two thoughts re: COX inhibition.

1. Not all COX inhibitors are created equal. The Vioxx data, for example, only apply to people taking more than the recommended dose (exceeding the maximum approved by the FDA). The Celebrex findings appear only in contrast to another COX drug, naproxen sodium.

2. The increased risk was exaggerated. Not literally exaggerated, but exaggerated by a failure to account for the context of the calculated value. Let's say that the background rate of some severe adverse event is 1 in 100,000 in normal populations (or controls), whereas it is 2 in 100,000 in the drug group. That could be reported as a "doubling in severe adverse effect rate", which takes on an aura of dread not relevant to the absolute rate, which is quite low indeed.

These drug withdrawals were political acts, in response to the current social climate. The FDA and drug companies are under attack, and they're acting with exaggerated prudence.

If tylenol and aspirin were subject to similar scrutiny, they would be withdrawn from the market in an instant.

COX inhibition has been with us for as long as people have sought to control pain. Willow bark (Salix species) is the original source of salicylic acid. Herr Bayer developed a stable synthetic form of salicylic acid, (acetylsalicylic acid) and called it Aspirin. It kills thousands of people in the US every year, and with doctors' full knowledge. It probably saves many, many times more.

As for the COX powers of Holy Basil, or of turmeric (my personal favourite), cross-national comparisons of e.g. rates of heart attack or occlusive stroke or Alzheimer's show that different cultures experience these at dramatically different rates. The world's lowest rates are on the Indian subcontinent, and dietary analysis leads to turmeric as a major influence. Curcumin, the active COX agent in turmeric, is a very powerful COX-2 inhibitor, but nobody has found any adverse effects of that. Quite to the contrary. If you went to Pubmed right now and searched on "curcumin" as a keyword, I bet you'd get close to a thousand hits in the last couple of years alone.

I think that failing to modulate pain is a bigger long-term health risk than is any of the treatments we typically employ, so long as we take note of the individual agents' adverse effect potential. I don't think that COX inhibition is *generally* a bad thing, though it may have *specific* relevance.

Lar

 

Re: Holy Basil » Larry Hoover

Posted by Sarah T. on February 17, 2005, at 3:04:01

In reply to Re: Holy Basil » Sarah T., posted by Larry Hoover on February 15, 2005, at 8:59:04

Larry, thanks for the information. I read that the reason Vioxx, Bextra and Celebrex cause the increased incidence of strokes and heart attacks is that one of the prostaglandins that is produced by the COX-2 enzyme has some beneficial, protective effects in addition to its inflammatory properties. When the COX-2 enzyme is inhibited by the drugs, the prostaglandin known as prostaglandin I2 is not formed in sufficient amounts. Although prostaglandin I2 can cause inflammation, it also prevents damage to artery walls and prevents blood clots. Apparently all of the COX-2 inhibitors mentioned above inhibit the production of Prostaglandin I2 and, at present, there is no way to stop the inflammation caused by Prostaglandin I-2 without also blocking its protective effects.

 

Re: Holy Basil » Sarah T.

Posted by Larry Hoover on March 2, 2005, at 15:55:06

In reply to Re: Holy Basil » Larry Hoover, posted by Sarah T. on February 17, 2005, at 3:04:01

> Larry, thanks for the information. I read that the reason Vioxx, Bextra and Celebrex cause the increased incidence of strokes and heart attacks is that one of the prostaglandins that is produced by the COX-2 enzyme has some beneficial, protective effects in addition to its inflammatory properties. When the COX-2 enzyme is inhibited by the drugs, the prostaglandin known as prostaglandin I2 is not formed in sufficient amounts. Although prostaglandin I2 can cause inflammation, it also prevents damage to artery walls and prevents blood clots. Apparently all of the COX-2 inhibitors mentioned above inhibit the production of Prostaglandin I2 and, at present, there is no way to stop the inflammation caused by Prostaglandin I-2 without also blocking its protective effects.

The more common name for prostaglandin I2 is prostacyclin. It's a derivative of arichidonic acid (omega-6).

I've done a lot of research into the prostaglandin cascade (there are a number of interlinked and embedded cycles and feedback loops), and the effects of inhibition of COX-2 on prostacyclin and clotting. It is my considered opinion that blocking of COX-2 is only a risk factor when other cardiac risks are already well advanced. Moreover, it seems to be necessary that extremely high doses of the COX-2 inhibitors are required (i.e. near absolute inhibition of that enzyme). Paradoxically, concurrent inhibition of COX-1 abolishes the adverse effect, which is why older nonselective COX inhibitors were not associated with these risks. Taking an enteric-coated 37.5 mg aspirin would probably do the trick, or intermittent use of the COX inhibitor, or not "maxing out" on the dose.

Frankly, I cannot believe the attention this adverse effect is getting. The net effect is really quite small, it is difficult to disentangle the effect from comorbidity, and there are many many far more dangerous drugs in common use. Tylenol kills more people every year than did Vioxx (allegedly) over its entire period of use.

Lar

 

Re: Holy Basil, Batman! (nm)

Posted by gardenergirl on March 3, 2005, at 1:40:32

In reply to Re: Holy Basil » Sarah T., posted by Larry Hoover on March 2, 2005, at 15:55:06

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist it any longer. :-) (nm)

Posted by gardenergirl on March 3, 2005, at 19:22:18

In reply to Re: Holy Basil, Batman! (nm), posted by gardenergirl on March 3, 2005, at 1:40:32


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