Psycho-Babble Alternative Thread 412398

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same ? » Larry Hoover

Posted by tealady on November 6, 2004, at 18:48:38

In reply to vitamin E and depression, posted by Larry Hoover on November 5, 2004, at 22:33:19

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/411145.html

 

Re: vitamin E and depression » Larry Hoover

Posted by TeeJay on November 6, 2004, at 19:17:37

In reply to Re: vitamin E and depression » Larry Hoover, posted by Larry Hoover on November 6, 2004, at 13:59:51

Lar,

No expert here, but my laymans hypothesis would be that depression causes much higher levels of oxidative stress in the body and hence the Vitamin E levels are used up in the body leaving the plasma levels low.

A symptom rather than cause perhaps?

TJ

 

Re: vitamin E and depression » Larry Hoover

Posted by JLx on November 6, 2004, at 19:18:41

In reply to Re: vitamin E and depression » Larry Hoover, posted by Larry Hoover on November 6, 2004, at 13:59:51

What might be a good amount to take then? Seems to me I've heard not to take too much, but I forget why and how much "too much" is supposed to be. I generally take between 400 and 800 IU.

JL

> > Again, even in the context of that graph, it pertains to normal healthy people. Note that Estimated Average Requirement (EAR) is the 50th percentile of overt deficiency, and although not shown, Adequate Intake (AI) is 77% of the RDA. RDA is two standard deviations above EAR. AI is one standard deviation above.
>
> Hmmm. This reference says AI is independent of EAR and RDA. Okay-dokay, throw it out. It's a meaningless term.
>
> Lar

 

Re: same ? » tealady

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 6, 2004, at 20:06:02

In reply to same ? » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on November 6, 2004, at 18:48:38

> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/411145.html

Ya, same study. I must have missed your posting of it.

Lar

 

Re: vitamin E and depression » TeeJay

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 6, 2004, at 20:08:43

In reply to Re: vitamin E and depression » Larry Hoover, posted by TeeJay on November 6, 2004, at 19:17:37

> Lar,
>
> No expert here, but my laymans hypothesis would be that depression causes much higher levels of oxidative stress in the body and hence the Vitamin E levels are used up in the body leaving the plasma levels low.
>
> A symptom rather than cause perhaps?
>
> TJ

Yes, I agree with your assessment. It could be both symptom and cause, if the effect is the classic vicious circle.

It doesn't really matter what leads to what, though. The solution is to enhance vitamin E intake substantially.

Lar

 

Re: vitamin E and depression » TeeJay

Posted by tealady on November 6, 2004, at 20:10:23

In reply to Re: vitamin E and depression » Larry Hoover, posted by TeeJay on November 6, 2004, at 19:17:37

> Lar,
>
> No expert here, but my laymans hypothesis would be that depression causes much higher levels of oxidative stress in the body and hence the Vitamin E levels are used up in the body leaving the plasma levels low.
>
> A symptom rather than cause perhaps?
>
> TJ

Yep, I agree

 

Re: vitamin E and depression » JLx

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 6, 2004, at 20:21:39

In reply to Re: vitamin E and depression » Larry Hoover, posted by JLx on November 6, 2004, at 19:18:41

> What might be a good amount to take then? Seems to me I've heard not to take too much, but I forget why and how much "too much" is supposed to be. I generally take between 400 and 800 IU.
>
> JL

Based on the National Institutes of Health review, the UL is set at 1,000 mg/day (defined as 1,000 IU). However, and this is a large issue, the uncertainty factor for the UL was set at 36. Thus, the lowest observable adverse effects level is 36,000 IU/day, *and* the adverse effects (clotting disturbances) were primarily attributed to deficiency in vitamin K, such that the effect of the vitamin E was not properly balanced.

I take 1600 per day, and I think I might increase it. I'm nowhere near 36,000, and if anything, my blood is too thick.

Lar

 

Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » Larry Hoover

Posted by JLx on November 10, 2004, at 10:26:32

In reply to Re: vitamin E and depression » JLx, posted by Larry Hoover on November 6, 2004, at 20:21:39

> > What might be a good amount to take then? Seems to me I've heard not to take too much, but I forget why and how much "too much" is supposed to be. I generally take between 400 and 800 IU.
> >
> > JL
>
> Based on the National Institutes of Health review, the UL is set at 1,000 mg/day (defined as 1,000 IU). However, and this is a large issue, the uncertainty factor for the UL was set at 36. Thus, the lowest observable adverse effects level is 36,000 IU/day, *and* the adverse effects (clotting disturbances) were primarily attributed to deficiency in vitamin K, such that the effect of the vitamin E was not properly balanced.
>
> I take 1600 per day, and I think I might increase it. I'm nowhere near 36,000, and if anything, my blood is too thick.
>
> Lar

What do you make of this?

Vitamin E May Increase Death Risk, Researchers Say http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39261-2004Nov10.html

JL

 

Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » JLx

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2004, at 11:41:01

In reply to Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » Larry Hoover, posted by JLx on November 10, 2004, at 10:26:32

> > > What might be a good amount to take then? Seems to me I've heard not to take too much, but I forget why and how much "too much" is supposed to be. I generally take between 400 and 800 IU.
> > >
> > > JL
> >
> > Based on the National Institutes of Health review, the UL is set at 1,000 mg/day (defined as 1,000 IU). However, and this is a large issue, the uncertainty factor for the UL was set at 36. Thus, the lowest observable adverse effects level is 36,000 IU/day, *and* the adverse effects (clotting disturbances) were primarily attributed to deficiency in vitamin K, such that the effect of the vitamin E was not properly balanced.
> >
> > I take 1600 per day, and I think I might increase it. I'm nowhere near 36,000, and if anything, my blood is too thick.
> >
> > Lar
>
> What do you make of this?
>
> Vitamin E May Increase Death Risk, Researchers Say http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39261-2004Nov10.html
>
> JL

I want to read the full-text of the paper, before I come to any conclusions of any sort. As mentioned in this article, there was a study that found that beta-carotene supplements had adverse effects, but the whole experimental model used was devoid of real-life applicability. Beta-carotene is never consumed in isolation, and it may well be that other nutrients were poorly supplied that were necessary for everything to work well. Until I see this complete article, I'm not convinced of anything. Vitamin E intake should be balanced by other antioxidants. I have no idea what the underlying study protocols were.

Lar

 

Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » Larry Hoover

Posted by JLx on November 10, 2004, at 12:19:04

In reply to Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » JLx, posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2004, at 11:41:01

> > > > What might be a good amount to take then? Seems to me I've heard not to take too much, but I forget why and how much "too much" is supposed to be. I generally take between 400 and 800 IU.
> > > >
> > > > JL
> > >
> > > Based on the National Institutes of Health review, the UL is set at 1,000 mg/day (defined as 1,000 IU). However, and this is a large issue, the uncertainty factor for the UL was set at 36. Thus, the lowest observable adverse effects level is 36,000 IU/day, *and* the adverse effects (clotting disturbances) were primarily attributed to deficiency in vitamin K, such that the effect of the vitamin E was not properly balanced.
> > >
> > > I take 1600 per day, and I think I might increase it. I'm nowhere near 36,000, and if anything, my blood is too thick.
> > >
> > > Lar
> >
> > What do you make of this?
> >
> > Vitamin E May Increase Death Risk, Researchers Say http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39261-2004Nov10.html
> >
> > JL
>
> I want to read the full-text of the paper, before I come to any conclusions of any sort. As mentioned in this article, there was a study that found that beta-carotene supplements had adverse effects, but the whole experimental model used was devoid of real-life applicability. Beta-carotene is never consumed in isolation, and it may well be that other nutrients were poorly supplied that were necessary for everything to work well. Until I see this complete article, I'm not convinced of anything. Vitamin E intake should be balanced by other antioxidants. I have no idea what the underlying study protocols were.
>
> Lar

Sorry, I didn't realize that it was available online: http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/0000605-200501040-00110v1

Some reaction: http://www.crnusa.org/PR04_1110CRNAIM.html

JL

 

Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » JLx

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2004, at 12:44:40

In reply to Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » Larry Hoover, posted by JLx on November 10, 2004, at 12:19:04

> Sorry, I didn't realize that it was available online: http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/0000605-200501040-00110v1

Excellent! I hadn't even looked for it, yet.

Just reading the abstract, it immediately leaps out at me, though, that the sickest people may have been advised to take the higher doses. That is the reverse relationship to the one suggested in the lay-press article; i.e. sickness led to increased vitamin E intake, and sickness was correlated with higher mortality.

Lar

 

Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » JLx

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2004, at 13:05:29

In reply to Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » Larry Hoover, posted by JLx on November 10, 2004, at 12:19:04

> Sorry, I didn't realize that it was available online: http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/0000605-200501040-00110v1
>
> Some reaction: http://www.crnusa.org/PR04_1110CRNAIM.html
>
> JL

I agree fully with the criticisms raised. Moreover, those studies with the greatest disparities in mortality were all very small studies (very low N). The larger studies showed little difference. Including the smaller studies skews the statistics.

Also, deeply embedded in the article was a comment that struck me.....one possible confound is the type of vitamin E supplied. There are eight isomers of vitamin E, but most vitamin E supps (the synthetic, cheaper varieties) are all of one single isomer. Perhaps the adverse health effects (if any) from high-dose vitamin E are due to displacement of the other isomers from their normal protective role?

Really, though, an all-cause mortality increase of 3 or 4% is not much to worry about.

I'll read it all again, and see what pops up.

Lar

 

different forms of VitE? d dl » Larry Hoover

Posted by tealady on November 10, 2004, at 16:09:00

In reply to Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » JLx, posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2004, at 13:05:29

Hi,
Just wondering what type of VitE is best to take?

I used to buy d-alpha Tocopherol (500IU), but have noticed a cheaper type in the shops lately dl-alpha Tocopherol?
Would both types be natural in our body?
...and then you said there was 8 isomers :)
are they all natural in our body?


 

Re: different forms of VitE? d dl » tealady

Posted by KaraS on November 10, 2004, at 16:45:04

In reply to different forms of VitE? d dl » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on November 10, 2004, at 16:09:00

> Hi,
> Just wondering what type of VitE is best to take?
>
> I used to buy d-alpha Tocopherol (500IU), but have noticed a cheaper type in the shops lately dl-alpha Tocopherol?
> Would both types be natural in our body?
> ...and then you said there was 8 isomers :)
> are they all natural in our body?
>

Hi tealady,

I've read that the mixed tocopherols that include the natural d-alpha version as well as d-beta and d-gamma are the best way to go. (The dl-alpha is synthetic and inferior.)

That's what I've been taking. Hope Larry agrees.

K

 

Re: different forms of VitE? d dl » tealady

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2004, at 17:23:02

In reply to different forms of VitE? d dl » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on November 10, 2004, at 16:09:00

> Hi,
> Just wondering what type of VitE is best to take?
>
> I used to buy d-alpha Tocopherol (500IU), but have noticed a cheaper type in the shops lately dl-alpha Tocopherol?
> Would both types be natural in our body?
> ...and then you said there was 8 isomers :)
> are they all natural in our body?

I'm glad for the questions, as you have caught me being sloppy with the science.

There are four tocopherols, alpha-, beta-, gamma-, and delta-. Their names are arbitrary (not related to structure). The alpha is 5,7,8-trimethyltocopherol (also tocol, rather than tocopherol). The other ones have fewer methyl groups. I don't know just how significant those differences are, but there seems to be some fairly substantial evidence that the beta,gamma,delta forms do different things than the alpha does. The strongest evidence is for the gamma, 7-,8-dimethyl form, as an essential antioxidant in its own right.

All these molecules are d-isomers, in the natural form. I think that I got the idea that each of these form also came in l-isomers, but strictly speaking, that's not correct.

The very same naming rules apply to a closely related form of vitamin E called a tocotrienol. There is alpha-, beta- etc. too. So, there are four tocopherols and four tocotrienols.

But it gets real messy when you start talking about the d-,l-alpha tocopherol supplements. There are three chiral centres in the molecule, and there are thus 3² = 8 diasteriomers in synthetic alpha-tocopherol. There are two enantiomers in natural d-,l-alpha tocopherol.

Confused? Try making sense of this: http://www.chem.qmul.ac.uk/iupac/misc/toc.html

Steer clear of synthetic vitamin E. Go for "mixed tocopherols", or check for some gamma-tocopherol on the label, along with the alpha-. I've also seen "mixed tocopherols with tocotrienols", which I suppose would be best.

Phew.

Lar

 

Re: different forms of VitE? d dl » KaraS

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2004, at 17:31:54

In reply to Re: different forms of VitE? d dl » tealady, posted by KaraS on November 10, 2004, at 16:45:04

> > Hi,
> > Just wondering what type of VitE is best to take?
> >
> > I used to buy d-alpha Tocopherol (500IU), but have noticed a cheaper type in the shops lately dl-alpha Tocopherol?
> > Would both types be natural in our body?
> > ...and then you said there was 8 isomers :)
> > are they all natural in our body?
> >
>
> Hi tealady,
>
> I've read that the mixed tocopherols that include the natural d-alpha version as well as d-beta and d-gamma are the best way to go. (The dl-alpha is synthetic and inferior.)
>
> That's what I've been taking. Hope Larry agrees.
>
> K

You are just too quick for me today, missy. Obviously you are not mentally ill, and I wonder why you are hanging around here at all. <evil grin>

Yes, you are absolutely correct, Kara.

L

 

Re: different forms of VitE? d dl » Larry Hoover

Posted by KaraS on November 10, 2004, at 18:41:41

In reply to Re: different forms of VitE? d dl » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2004, at 17:31:54

> > > Hi,
> > > Just wondering what type of VitE is best to take?
> > >
> > > I used to buy d-alpha Tocopherol (500IU), but have noticed a cheaper type in the shops lately dl-alpha Tocopherol?
> > > Would both types be natural in our body?
> > > ...and then you said there was 8 isomers :)
> > > are they all natural in our body?
> > >
> >
> > Hi tealady,
> >
> > I've read that the mixed tocopherols that include the natural d-alpha version as well as d-beta and d-gamma are the best way to go. (The dl-alpha is synthetic and inferior.)
> >
> > That's what I've been taking. Hope Larry agrees.
> >
> > K
>
> You are just too quick for me today, missy. Obviously you are not mentally ill, and I wonder why you are hanging around here at all. <evil grin>
>
> Yes, you are absolutely correct, Kara.
>
> L

Wish I didn't belong here <sigh>

K

 

Thanks Kara,Lar » Larry Hoover

Posted by tealady on November 10, 2004, at 19:03:27

In reply to Re: different forms of VitE? d dl » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2004, at 17:31:54

Clear as mud Lar or maybe just fog:) Thanks
Thanks Kara too.

looks like can only get 2 brands of mixed here..both mixed up with selenimethionine (or however its spelt), sigh..these formula guys (naturopaths mostly) always outsmart themselves in Oz.

Suspected the cheap dl form might be no good.

The plain d alpha form seems to help me though, been taking it on and off for many years.

Jan

 

Re: Vit E and increased death risk?

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 11, 2004, at 8:35:02

In reply to Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » JLx, posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2004, at 11:41:01

> > Vitamin E May Increase Death Risk, Researchers Say http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39261-2004Nov10.html
> >
> > JL
>
> I want to read the full-text of the paper, before I come to any conclusions of any sort. As mentioned in this article, there was a study that found that beta-carotene supplements had adverse effects, but the whole experimental model used was devoid of real-life applicability. Beta-carotene is never consumed in isolation, and it may well be that other nutrients were poorly supplied that were necessary for everything to work well. Until I see this complete article, I'm not convinced of anything. Vitamin E intake should be balanced by other antioxidants. I have no idea what the underlying study protocols were.
>
> Lar
>

The following was posted to sci.med.nutrition by a respected member. It's nice to see that I'm not alone in my thinking.

"He says there are several theories about why vitamin E increases risk. One theory is that it increases bleeding risk, which would increase the risk of a type of stroke, while another theory suggests that at high doses vitamin E stops working like an antioxidant, removing harmful molecules in the body, and instead becomes a pro-oxidant, actually promoting the production of harmful molecules.

Still another scenario suggests that high doses of vitamin E tend to wipe out other antioxidants, which disrupts the body's natural antioxidant protection system."

This gets more to the issue, I think. These data are not dissimilar from the findings of the dangers of beta carotene.

Well, I think that makes sense. Anyone who knows even the most general science of oxidative stress will realize that these individual agents work as antioxidants for a specific oxdiant. They then must be reduced by another antioxidant. So they work in tight knit cycles.

Thinking in the framework of "one drug for one condition" (let alone a bug/infectious disease) in this context is really moronically stupid. And it is little wonder that people who take high dose Vitamin E or beta carotene fare poorly. Indeed, it's rather suprising to me that the increased mortality risk is so low!

By contrast, using an array of antioxidants makes MUCH more sense. A case in point is the studies of beta carotene in HIV disease, some studies for preventing mother-to-child transmission. In those studies, no benefit was found. No surprise. However, recent studies of the use of a MULTIVITAMIN showed much better effect. Indeed, HIV disease progression was slowed by 30%.

That's because you get a full array of the elements of the oxidative stress cycles that provide a balance: vitamins A, C, E, the B vitamins, selenium, zinc. A good potent multi I think is an important cornerstone of therapy. One might add to that agents like NAC, alpha lipoic acid and other enhancers of glutathione, catalase and the SODs."

 

Re: more on vitamin E

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 11, 2004, at 15:43:19

In reply to Re: Vit E and increased death risk?, posted by Larry Hoover on November 11, 2004, at 8:35:02

I suppose I oughta copy some of my own post to sci.med.nutrition here, as well.


There's a totally uncontrolled aspect of supplementation with vitamin E, here, in that most supplements reported in these studies are d-alpha, or d-,l-alpha tocopherol. As alpha tocopherol has substantially higher binding affinity to transport proteins than do delta- or gamma-, there is a marked substitution of the former for the latter two in tissues, even if diet is otherwise adequate. In the discussion in this paper, it seems this suppression of especially gamma-tocopherol concentrations persists for two years, and delta-tocopherol concentrations became undetectable. As gamma-tocopherol in particular is thought to be selective for NOx pro-oxidants, this may permit an increase in the formation of peroxynitrite from NO and superoxide anion. That's bad news for health.

Full-text (link), abstract below:

http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/10/3137

J Nutr. 2003 Oct;133(10):3137-40.

Supplementation of diets with alpha-tocopherol reduces serum concentrations of gamma- and delta-tocopherol in humans.

Huang HY, Appel LJ.

Department of Epidemiology, Bloomberg School of Public Health, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD 21205, USA. hyhuang@jhsph.edu

Despite promising evidence from in vitro experiments and observational studies, supplementation of diets with alpha-tocopherol has not reduced the risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer in most large-scale clinical trials. One plausible explanation is that the potential health benefits of alpha-tocopherol supplements are offset by deleterious changes in the bioavailability and/or bioactivity of other nutrients. We studied the effects of supplementing diets with RRR-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (400 IU/d) on serum concentrations of gamma- and delta-tocopherol in a randomized, placebo-controlled trial in 184 adult nonsmokers. Outcomes were changes in serum concentrations of gamma- and delta-tocopherol from baseline to the end of the 2-mo experimental period. Compared with placebo, supplementation with alpha-tocopherol reduced serum gamma-tocopherol concentrations by a median change of 58% [95% CI = (51%, 66%), P < 0.0001], and reduced the number of individuals with detectable delta-tocopherol concentrations (P < 0.0001). Consistent with trial
results were the results from baseline cross-sectional analyses, in which prior vitamin E supplement users had significantly lower serum gamma-tocopherol than nonusers. In view of the potential benefits of gamma- and delta-tocopherol, the efficacy of alpha-tocopherol supplementation may be reduced due to decreases in serum gamma- and delta-tocopherol levels. Additional research is clearly warranted.

************************
> And it is little wonder that people who take high dose Vitamin E or
> beta carotene fare poorly. Indeed, it's rather suprising to me that
> the increased mortality risk is so low!

George, I think you are right on the money. There is quite an array of tocopheryl radical quenchers, including vitamin C, alphalipoic acid, glutathione, carotenoids, Co Q10, xanthines, lutein, on and on. What is the key criterion is the localized half-life of the tocopheryl radical. It is pro-oxidant, but only if the formation of this radical exceeds the net quenching capacity of the other inter-related anti-oxidants.

It's a trade-off, the destruction of more reactive (and thus more destructive) radicals for less reactive ones of longer half-life. The chain must be unbroken, up to the point where two less reactive, longer half-life radicals, react to form a stable molecule. Stalling the chain at e.g. tocopheryl radical (or ascorbyl radical, or whatever) will sustain oxidative capacity. The damage done by those "antioxidants turned oxidants" will differ based on the chemistry of the particular radical itself. The tocopheryl radical will damage lipids preferentially, for example, due to its hydrophobic physical characteristics.

Reductionist science will never discover this relationship. It is not part of the mindset. Methodologies with one independent variable do not provide you with generalizable information, the way some scientists think they do. The statistics hold there value in other populations if and only if all other variables are similarly constrained. The reasonable conclusion from this study might be that taking vitamin E as sole antioxidant supplement may be injurious if you exceed the antioxidant capacity for tocopheryl quenching.

Lar

P.S. I'm getting rid of my cheapo synthetic vitamin E supps, and buying some proper mixed tocopherols.

 

Re: Vit E and increased death risk?

Posted by MKB on November 11, 2004, at 16:14:30

In reply to Re: Vit E and increased death risk? » Larry Hoover, posted by JLx on November 10, 2004, at 10:26:32

All I know is that high does of Vitamin E give me serious diarrhea, so I don't take it. My mother, who has Alzheimer's and was supposed to take Vit. E for that reason, has the same result.

 

Re: more on vitamin E » Larry Hoover

Posted by tealady on November 11, 2004, at 17:08:23

In reply to Re: more on vitamin E, posted by Larry Hoover on November 11, 2004, at 15:43:19

Thanks Lar.
I don't read on those other boards at present. Can't even keep up with alter and the thyroid forums:-)
I've only ever taken the natural a alpha VitE so looks like I've maybe depleted the other ones..luckily I only take about 1 capsule every 2 days or so due to the price I guess...with some periods off.

I was reading on here http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41990

"The Life Extension Buyers Club was the first to introduce gamma tocopherol, and has since enhanced the formula with potent doses of PALM oil-derived tocotrienols, the highest quality available"

wonder how much VitE is in palm oil..or any of the oils for that matter?
Maybe chocolate is better for us than we thought ;-)..wishful thinking here

 

Re: more on vitamin E » tealady

Posted by jujube on November 15, 2004, at 10:04:25

In reply to Re: more on vitamin E » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on November 11, 2004, at 17:08:23

More on Vitamin E (if you haven't already seen this)

Controvers-E!

905-417-2273

Newsflash from Dr. Bryce

The Vitamin E Story

Media hype: Meta-Analysis says that High-Dosage Vitamin E Supplementation May Increase All-Cause Mortality?! What the heck is this?!

Let me explain...

Trials that tested high dosages involved adults with chronic diseases, and these findings may not be generalizable to healthy adults. Some trials evaluated multivitamin combinations. The findings don't clearly establish the lowest dosage of supplementation that is associated with increased mortality risk.
What is important is that you do not stop vit-e supplementation abruptly especially if you have any blood clotting disorder or if you are on heart medication(s). If you have been taking high doses of vitamin E and are worried about bleeding or easily bruising, you should ask your doctor to check something called INR (International Normalized Ratio).

A word on blood clotting tests: Prothrombin Time (PT) is the most common way to express the clotting time of blood. PT results are reported as the number of seconds the blood takes to clot when mixed with a thromboplastin reagent. The International Normalized Ratio (INR) was created by the World Health Organization because PT results can vary depending on the thromboplastin reagent used. The INR is a conversion unit that takes into account the different sensitivities of thromboplastins. The INR is widely accepted as the standard unit for reporting PT results.

Why Regular PT/INR Monitoring is Important: The effectiveness of oral anticoagulants can vary over time, as changes in diet, (particularly foods high in vitamin K), alcohol use, other drugs and illness can all affect PT. These factors require that the PT is monitored regularly so the patient stays within the desired therapeutic range. Oral anticoagulant dosages are then adjusted according to the results of the PT test. Vitamin E can often adulterate oral anticoagulant drugs at doses over 400IU. Several studies have shown that the more time patients spend within the desired range of INR the less likely they are to suffer serious complications of their disease or condition. Another test you should ask your doctor about is C-Reactive Protein. More on this in another issue!


Vitamin E Enhances these Aspects of Cardiovascular Health (and so many other things that there is no room to list them!)

 Vitamin E improves Blood Circulation. Vitamin E protects against abnormal Blood Clotting (it inhibits platelet aggregation) by causing Platelets in the Blood to become less "sticky, i.e. less likely to adhere to cracks and hollows inside Arteries and by inhibiting the body's production of Thrombin.

 Vitamin E (200 - 400 IU per day) alleviates Restless Legs Syndrome.

 Vitamin E prevents Atherosclerosis by protecting LDL Cholesterol and the Endothelium (cells that line Blood Vessels) from Oxidation and by lowering levels of Interleukin 6 and C-Reactive Protein. It also reverses existing Atherosclerosis.

 Animals receiving Vitamin E supplements have only 20% of the amount of arterial blockage as animals on a high fat diet not receiving Vitamin E.

 Vitamin E protects Blood Vessels from the damage caused by Free Radicals (via its Antioxidant properties).
 Vitamin E (cream applied topically) alleviates the Itching associated with Hemorrhoids and Vitamin E deficiency can cause Hemorrhoids.
Vitamin E is an effective therapy for Intermittent Claudication patients.

 Case reports supplied by doctors reveal that daily doses of 400 IU of the D-alpha Tocopherol form of Vitamin E can totally heal the signs of Raynauds Disease within eight weeks.

 Vitamin E lowers elevated Blood Pressure in Hypertension patients.

 Vitamin E helps to prevent Strokes (by preventing the abnormal Blood Clotting that is the underlying cause of most Strokes). People using Vitamin E supplements have a 29% reduction in their risk of Stroke and also have a reduced risk of dying from a Stroke.

 Vitamin E (at doses of 800 IU per day) helps to prevent Angina onset and may alleviate the symptoms of Angina in existing Angina patients.

 Vitamin E restores normal Heart rhythm in Arrhythmias patients - Vitamin E increases myocardial resistance to the excessive cellular Calcium that causes premature heart beats.

 Vitamin E reduces the incidence of Heart disease from 32% of the population to 3% of the population after consumption of at least 400 IU of Vitamin for at least two years.

 Vitamin E inhibits the ability of Alcohol (ethanol) to damage the Heart.

 Vitamin E (400 - 1,200 IU per day) alleviates the after-effects of Heart Attacks (pain and breathlessness) and protects against the abnormal Blood Clotting and oxidation of LDL Cholesterol that causes Heart Attacks - persons who supplement with Vitamin E intake have a significantly lower (77% lower) death rate from Heart Attacks compared to persons with average or low Vitamin E intake (the protective effects of Vitamin E do not begin to take effect until after 200 days of daily Vitamin E supplementation).

 Men who consume 30 IU or more of Vitamin E per day have a 37% lower risk for Ischemic Heart Disease than men who consume less than 30 IU of Vitamin E per day.

 Vitamin E helps to prevent Hemolytic Anemia (by protecting Red Blood Cells from the toxic effects of Free Radicals).

 Vitamin E (450 IU per day) alleviates many cases of Sickle-Cell Anemia.

 Vitamin E extends the lifespan of Red Blood Cells by protecting them from Oxidation damage and protects Red Blood Cells from the toxic effects of exposure to Ozone. Fragility of the Cell Membranes of Red Blood Cells can occur as a result of Vitamin E deficiency.


..........................................................................................................


Please use Natural vs. Synthetic
What you need to know is that D-Alpha Tocopherol, and preferably along with other mixed tocopherols is the only type of vitamin E to use. ..more
Low vitamin E linked to early artery disease
Women who don't get enough vitamin E in their diets appear to be more likely than others to show early signs of the artery disease atherosclerosis, even before they experience any symptoms of the condition, study findings show. ..more
Vitamin E may help keep arteries clear in women
Women who take in less vitamin E may be at greater risk of heart disease and stroke, even if they do not have other risk factors, Italian researchers report. ..more
Vitamin E may help keep people sharp in old age
Vitamin E intake in food and supplements may help slow decline in mental functioning among older people, according to the results of a study. ..

 

Re: more on vitamin E » tealady

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 25, 2004, at 5:50:27

In reply to Re: more on vitamin E » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on November 11, 2004, at 17:08:23

> wonder how much VitE is in palm oil..or any of the oils for that matter?
> Maybe chocolate is better for us than we thought ;-)..wishful thinking here

Very little. It happens that the refining of vegetable oils causes the removal of vitamin E, along with some other less desirable compounds. You cannot get anything like the supplemental doses of vitamin E you need to counteract the high oils/fat intake of the modern diet. Supps are relatively cheap, kind of food concentrates.

Lar

 

Re: more on vitamin E » tealady

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 25, 2004, at 5:54:50

In reply to Re: more on vitamin E » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on November 11, 2004, at 17:08:23

From jujube's message, just above:
"Case reports supplied by doctors reveal that daily doses of 400 IU of the D-alpha Tocopherol form of Vitamin E can totally heal the signs of Raynaud's Disease within eight weeks."

Ever considered Raynaud's for your vasoconstriction in the extremities?

Lar


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