![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mindreseacher on August 30, 2004, at 0:09:39
Just posting in reference to these 2 substances. Both are suppose to increase gaba, but not cause addiction or sedation like benzos. Anyone have any experience with such
MR
Posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 3:01:07
In reply to Picamilon and Phenibut, posted by mindreseacher on August 28, 2004, at 21:31:23
> Just posting in reference to these 2 substances. Both are suppose to increase gaba, but not cause addiction or sedation like benzos. Anyone have any experience with such
> MR
I've tried Picamilon a couple of times but haven't taken it yet consistently for any perion of time - which is what you need to do to really judge it. I'm planning on trying that soon.
There are posts on it in the archives here if you want to do a search.I've only recently heard about Phenibut and I don't know of anyone who has tried it.
Posted by mindreseacher on August 31, 2004, at 7:37:57
In reply to Re: Picamilon and Phenibut » mindreseacher, posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 3:01:07
Pickamilon is Bio-Logics, LLC's combination of n-nicotinoyl uniquely bonded to GABA - gamma aminobutyric acid.
Picamilon is an amazingly powerful compound with antioxidant properties, which has been available for over 25 years. Its primary use has been to support normal structure and function during aging. According to the third party literature, Picamilan has been used for nutritional support in the following situations: 1) tiredness and irritability, 2) depression, 3) decreased energy, 4) misuse of alcohol, and 5) anxiety.
An important benefit of using Pickamilon is that it is not a sedative, which means you can use Pickamilon and still drive and operate machinery, unlike when using tranquilizers (Picamilan, however, is not a substitute for medications prescribed by your physician.)
Picamilon shows different results at different dosages. A: The lower dosage, 50mg 3 times a day will achieve a tranquilizing nutritional effect. B.Increasing the dosage to 100 mg 3 times a day will bring about the nutritional stimulation effect and increase endurance.
The effects of Picamilon are felt quickly, most people will notice an impact within an hour and the body usually retains Pickamilon for up to six hours. It crosses the blood brain barrier easily, which is why the results are normally experienced so rapidly.
Pickamilon is a cleverly combined combination of the nutrients GABA and NIACIN. This chemical bonding of the two means the manufacturing process is formidable. Picamilon is an excellent substitute for minaprine and pramiracetam.
When Picamilon is used at the highest level, (250-300 mg per day) studies prove it to be more stimulating than piracetam and to have a more pronounced effect than vinpocetine. Other studies have shown Pickamilon has the ability to support blood circulation, and blood supply to the brain, in a manner far superior to the results achieved with either Hydergine or Xanthinol Nicotinate.
Picamilon has an extremely low toxicity and has shown no carcinogenic properties. In summation, as a nutrient Picamilan is a stimulating tranquilizer and can produce results more quickly than other products like Hydergine, Piracetam and Vinpocetine.
Description: Picamilan was first synthesized from nutrients in 1970. It is a white crystalline power that is odorless, highly hygroscopic and readily soluble in water. It is a combination of niacin and GABA in the same molecule, which increases to potency of each component (n-nicotinoyl uniquely bonded to GABA - gamma aminobutyric acid).
Method of Action: Affects cerebral circulation and neural regulation in similar manner to gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA). Anti-edematous action of Picamilan is linked with a change in energy metabolism in neurologic tissue.
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Suggested Intake
Normal dosage(.01 to .05 grams). Acts on cerebral circulation and neural regulation to support a natural tranquilizing effect, restore balance between sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, reduce the emotional effects of life stress and inhibit anxiety and aggression. May also be helpful in the nutritional support of Premenstrual Syndrome and Migraine Headaches. In higher doses (80-160 mg/kg) has a reciprocal stimulation effect. Does not induce muscle relaxation, drowsiness or lethargy.
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Dosage and Administration: Time course of accumulation of Picamilan in the brain correlates with its blood level. Effect In: Approximately 30 minutes.Adverse Reactions: Picamilan produces no known allergenic, teratogenic, embryotoxic or carcinogenic effects..
Known Interactive Effects: Valerian Root may inhibit the breakdown of GABA thereby enhancing its activity in the brain. Ginseng may also potentiate the activity of GABA.
Counter Indications and Warnings
Do not use this product if you are pregnant or lactating without first seeking advice from your physician. Do not use this product if you suffer from renal disease. Do not use this product if you have a family history or other risk factors for stroke.
JournalsPicamilon Enhances Blood Flow
Mirzoian RS; Gan'shina TS Farmakol Toksikol (USSR) Jan-Feb 1989, 52 (1) p23-6
Picamilon, a sodium salt of N-nicotinoyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid, was shown to induce a significant increase of cerebral blood flow in conscious cats. Picamilon was found to inhibit neurogenic spasms of cerebral vessels, that were followed by suppression of tonic activity and reflectory discharges in sympathetic nerves. Picamilon led to restoration of the initial condition of cerebral hemodynamics disturbed by a previous administration of serotonin.
Vasoactive agent Picamilon in pigmented retinal abiotrophy.
Davydova G.A.; Mukha A.I., Otdel Patologii Setchatki, Mosk. NI Institut Glaznykh Boleznej, Minzdravmedproma Rossii, Moskva Russian Federation Vestnik Oftalmologii (Russian Federation), 1995, 111/3 (20-22)
Eighty patients with pigmented retinal abiotrophy (PRA) and 20 controls were examined. The perfusion pressure and arteriovenous coefficient are markedly reduced in patients with stages 1-2 PRA, in comparison with controls. Deterioration of the visual function in patients with stages 3-4 PRA vs. that in stages 1-2 was associated with a more marked reduction of the hemodynamic parameters and the status of ocular vessels. Picamilon therapy in a dose of 2 ml of 10% solution once a day intramuscularly for 10 days led to improvement of the visual function and ocular hemodynamics in patients with PRA. Treatment efficacy was higher in patients with disease stages 1-2. Picamilon is recommended for the treatment of patients with PRA.
The results of clinical study of the drug Picamilon (an analysis of some data of neurologic and psychiatric clinics)
A. P.huaichenko, R. P. Kruglikova-Lvova, The Pharmacological Committee of the Ministry of Health of USSR, 25, Kropotkinaky per., Moscow! NPO, "Vitamins," 14 A, Nauchny proezd, Moscow 117246, USSR
The analysis of results of Picamilon clinical investigation in 16 neurologic and psychiatric clinics on 984 patients with various diseases is presented. Picamilon efficiency and good tolerance were established. Picamilon was recommended by the Pharmacological Committee of the Ministry of Health of the USSR for application in medicine for insults therapy, for treatment of transient disorders and chronic insufficiency of blood circulation and also as a tranquillizer without the sedative component and myorelaxation; Picamilon is recommended for asthenic disorders within the limits of different psychical diseases and for treating depressions of old age. As a therapeutic and prophylactic remedy, Picamilon is recommended for rehabilitation of capacity for work and for increasing of stability towards physical and psychological burden. Picamilon is used in narcology in the period of abstinence.
Effects of Picamilon on learning and memory in water and radial mazes
G. V. Kovalev, A. G. Voznesensky, V. A. Sazhin, Medical Institute, 1, pavshikh bortsov Sq., Volgograd, 400066, USSR
As compared with piracetam in the dose of 200 mg/kg, Picamilon in the dose of 56 mg/kg caused more pronounced nootropic effects on learning of rats in the water maze and electroshock amnesia under these conditions. Picamilon in the dose of 10 mg/kg enhanced short-term and long-term memory in the 8 arm radial maze. Piracetam in the dose 200 mg/kg had no effect on acquisition of rats in radial maze.
Vasoactive agent pikamilon in pigmented retinal abiotrophy
Vestnik Oftalmologii (Russian Federation), 1995, 111/3 (20-22)
Eighty patients with pigmented retinal abiotrophy (PRA) and 20 controls were examined. The perfusion pressure and arteriovenous coefficient are markedly reduced in patients with stages 1-2 PRA, in comparison with controls. Deterioration of the visual function in patients with stages 3-4 PRA vs. that in stages 1-2 was associated with a more marked reduction of the hemodynamic parameters and the status of ocular vessels. Pikamilon therapy in a dose of 2 ml of 10% solution once a day intramuscularly for 10 days led to improvement of the visual function and ocular hemodynamics in patients with PRA. Treatment efficacy was higher in patients with disease stages 1-2. Pikamilon is recommended for the treatment of patients with PRA.
Results of pikamilon therapy of patients with open-angle glaucoma
Vestnik Oftalmologii (Russian Federation), 1994, 110/4 (4-7)
Administration of pikamilon, a cerebrovascular and nootropic drug, to patients with primary open-angle glaucoma with normalized intraocular pressure and declining visual function resulted in improvement of the central and peripheral visual fields manifesting by improvement of individual sensitivity threshold, decreased area and intensity of scotomas; the treatment had a favorable effect on light sensitivity and vision acuity in some patients. No noticeable effect on arterial pressure was observed. The drug did not reduce the intraocular pressure.
[The characteristics of the retinal absorption of labelled preparations of pikamilon and GABA]
Fiziol Zh (USSR) Mar-Apr 1991, 37 (2) p116-8
The velocity of absorption of GABA and its derivative picamilon carbon-labelled by isolated bovine retina has been studied. It is shown that maximal velocity of GABA and picamilon absorption falls at the second incubation minute, then it decreases. In all the cases the picamilon absorption velocity is higher than the GABA absorption velocity. With an increase of concentration in the incubation medium of the labeled preparation under study the absorption velocity of GABA remains practically unchanged, while that of picamilon slightly increases.
[The new cerebrovascular preparation pikamilon]
Farmakol Toksikol (USSR) Jan-Feb 1989, 52 (1) p23-6
Picamilon, a sodium salt of N-nicotinoyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid, was shown to induce a significant increase of cerebral blood flow in conscious cats. Picamilon was found to inhibit neurogenic spasms of cerebral vessels that was followed by suppression of tonic activity and reflectory discharges in sympathetic nerves. Picamilon led to restoration of the initial condition of cerebral hemodynamics disturbed by a previous administration of serotonin.
PYCAMILON AND CEBROVASCULAR DISORDERS
Institute Of Pharmacology, 8, Baltiyakaya st., Moscow, 125315, USSR
Pycamilon induces a significant increase in cerebral blood flow in conscious animals. Cerebrovascular effect of pycamilon is more potent and durable than that of GABA (aminalon), nicotinic acid, cinnarizin, nicergolin, xantinolnicotinat, dihydroetgotoxin and papaverin. Under pycamilon action there was observed the reduction in neurogenic spasms of cerebrovascular vessels accompanied by the inhibition of tonic activity and reflectory discharges in sympathetic nerves. Pycamilon recovers the cerebral has disturbed by serotonin.
MICROVASCULAR EFFECTS OF PYCAMILON IN THE CORTEX
Institute of Pharmacology, 8, Baltiyskaya st.,Moscow, 125315, USSR
Pycamilon when locally applied at a dose of 0,2 ml of' 5% solution was found to induce the dilatation of pial arterioles. The most pronounced dilatation was observed in vessels with the initial diameter of 10-20 nm. With arteriole diameter being increased the dilatatory effect of the drug diminished. When differently administered pycamilon causes the increase in cortex blood flow in conscious rats and rabbits.
PRECLINICAL STUDY OF THE PYCAMILON INJECTION DRUG
NPO "Vitamins", 14 A, Nauchny proezd, Moscow 117246, USSR
Pycamilon is an original vasoactive and nootropic drug used in medicine as 0,01 g, 0,02 g, 0,05 g tablets. The new pycamilon drug form has been developed. It represents 5% and 10% solutions for injections in ampules. In experiments on animals the new drug form has been found to possess pronounced cerebrovascular activity and antihypoxic effect as the before studied substance of pycamilon. Pycamilon posesses low toxicity by singular and long administrations, it doesn't produce any local irritative effects by intramuscular and subcutaneous administrations. Pycamilon has not any negative effect on animal blood vessels. The drug is not an allergen. Pycamilon doesn't possess any cancerogenic activity.
CEREBROVASCULAR ACTIVITY OF PYCAMILON IN IHE POSTISCHEMIC PERIOD
Pharmaceutical Institute, 11, Kalinin prosp., Pyatigorsk 357533, USSR
Antihypoxic properties of pycamilon on white rats and cats under narcosis have been studied. Cerebrum metabolism induced were determined during the experiment. It has been established that preliminary administration of pycamilon in the dose of 55 mg/kg increased the percentage of animal survival after circulatory hypoxia, promoted reduction and stimulation of' glucose and oxygen utilization processes, decreased the-intensity of cerebral blood flow and increased the functional cerebrovascular stability towards acute hypotension, influenced positively on cerebrovescular autoregulatory reactions in the postischaemic period.
"PYCAMILON IS A NEW CEREBROVASCULAR AND NOOTROPIC DRUG" SUMMARIES CHEMISTRY OF PYCAMILON AND RELATED COMPOUNDS
NPO "Vitamins", 14 A, Nauchny proezd, Moscow 117246, USSR
The pharmacochemical approach to the synthesis of the new drug pycamilon (sodium nicotinoyl-aminobutyrate) has been discussed. The synthetic methods (through azides, chloroanhydrides, mixed anhydrides and activated esters) for pycamilon and its analogs modified in nicotinoyl and aminoacid parts have been described. Some biological properties of the synthetised analogs have been presented.
COMPARED VASCULAR EFFCTS OF PYCAMILON AND OTHER NICOTINOYL-GABA DERIVATIVES: COMPUTER PROGNOSIS OF THEIR VASOACTIVE PROPERTIES
Medical Institute, 1, Pavshikh bortzov Sq., Volgograd 400066, USSR
27 new derivatives of pycamilon were investigated on vascular activity and acute toxity. The results of experiments were used for computer prediction of these activities by complex statistic method. The features of activities were found. It was shown that the derivatives of Pycamilon are perspective vascular compounds and their activities can be easily calculated from chemical structure by complex statistic method.PICAMILON INFLUENCE ON THE BRAIN OEDEMA COURSE
Medical Institute, 28, Krupskaya et., Smolensk 214019, USSR
The influence of' the GABA-derivative-pycamilon - on toxic and traumatic brain oedema course has been studied in experiments on animals. The drug activity was estimated by its influence on water lactate and pyruvate content in the brain tissue and density of the latter. The results have been presented ln comparison with those for pyracetam. Pycamilon was found to be able of suppressing brain oedema development. But thia action is weakly pronounced and only by application of high doses of the drug. Pyracetam has no advantages in this action comparing to pycamilon and in some indices even yields to pycamilon.
SPECTRUM OF PYCAMILON NEUROPHARMACOLOGICAL ACTIVITY IN ANIMALS UNDER EXPERIMENT
Institute of Pharmacology, B, Baltiyskaya st., Moscow, 125315, USSR
During experiment in different animals it haa been revealed that pycamilon with in the range of doses which don't evoke the depression of CNS has a pronounced anxiolytic effect and is free of myorelaxation typical to benzodiazepine related tranquilizers. Pycamilon was shown to recover working capacity following physical and psychic tiredness and improve reflectory activity disturbed by alcohol in addition to its stimulating and awakening effect in barbiturate narcosis and potentiation of opiate antinociceptive action. There are reported the first results of pharmacological studies oi pycamilon obtained in neuropharmacological screening tests and LD50 in mice, under per os and i.p. administration of the drug.
PYCAMILON AND IT'S PLACE IN THE GROUP OF WELL-KNOWN NOOTROPIC DRUGS
Institute of Pharmacology, 8, Baltiyskaya st., Moscow, 125315, USSR
Pycamilon - N-nicotinoyl-GABA ia a new vasoactive drug with nootropic propertiee. It has antiamnestic activity on two modele of amnesia of passive avoidanae response, caused by maximum electro shock and scopolamine on mice. Pycamilon increases exploratory behaviour in open field. It doesn't cause coordination disturbances in rota rod teat. In comparison with the known nootropic drugs, pycamilon produces a specific antiamnestic effecy in lower doses, than piracetam, etiracetam, aniracetam. Effects of demanol aceglumat, meclofenoxate and pycamilon, received in the same doses, are similar. But pycamilon is less potent than nicergoline.
ELECTROPHYSIOLOGICAL AND BEHAVIOR ANALYSIS OF THE EFFECT OF PYCAMILON ON LEARNING AND PAR AMNESIA IINDUCED BY DEPRIVATION OF SLEEP PARADOXICAL PHASE
Institute of Pharmcology, 8, Baltiyakaya St., Moscow, 125315, USSR
Pycamilon (nicotinoyl - GABA) in the dose of 10 mg/kg intraperitoneously at 40 min before acquisition prevented disruption of retrieval ot passive avoidance reaction (PAR) after 24-hour deprivation of deep paradoxical phase ln rats. The drug didn't restore the disrupted structure of sleep, but induced beta-rhythm and elevated lts phasic component.
EFFECTS OF PYCAMILON ON LEARNING AND MEMORY IN WATER AND RADIAL MAZES
Medical Institute, 1, pavshikh bortsov Sq.., Volgograd, 400066, USSR
As compared to nootropyl in the dose of 200 mg/kg pycamilon (nicotinoyl-GABA) in the dose of 56 mg/kg caused more pronounced nootropic effects on learning of rats in the water maze and electroshok amnesia under these conditions. Pycamilon in the dose of 10 mg/kg enhanced short-term and long-term memory in the 8 arm radial maze. Nootropyl in the dose 200 mg/kg had no effect on acquisition of rats in radial maze.
THE EFFECT OF PYCAMILON, GABA AND SODIUM OXYBUTYRATE 0N PHYSICAL CAPACITY AND PROCESSES OF REHABILITATION
Medical Institute, 1, pavshikh bortzov Sq., Volgolgrad, 400066, USSR
The effects of GABA, sodium oxybutyrate and pycamilon on the duration of swimming of mice with weight 5% from body mass (water temperature 30-32 C) were studies. The drugs were adminiatered per os in different doses (1/10; 1/30; 1/100; 1/300 DL50). GABA, sodium oxybutyrate and pycamilon have been found to increase the duration of swimming of mice, to promote the growth of progressive (1/300 DL50) adaptation, to decrease the exhaustion desadaptation and to rehabilitate the physical efficiency.
SOME PHARMACOLOGICAL INDICES OF PYCAMILON NEUROTROPIC EFFECT
Institute of Biochemistry, 50, Lenin Komsomol bul., Grodno 230009, USSR
In experiments on mice it was establiahed that pycamilon and GABA decreased behaviour reactions and body temperature of mice, changed some central effects of the hypnotics phenamine and apomorphine. Both studied druga don't alter GABA and glutamic acid concentrations, but decrease the glutamatodeoarboxylase activity in brain of mice. Contrary to GABA pycamilon decreases acetylcholineeaterase and monoaminooxidase activities under the mentioned conditions. It is supposed that pycamilon effects are largely due to its influence on GABA, on cholinergic and first of all on adrenergic processes of the nervous system.
INFLUENCE OF REPEATED INJECTIONS OF PYCAMILON ON THE STATE OF GABA-SHUNT AND SOME CONJUGATED METABOLIC PATHWAYS IN BRAIN
Medical Institute named for N.I Pirogov, 2, J.Jarimanova St., odessa 270100, USSR
In experiments were investigated the influence of repeated pycamilon injections (5 injections of 10 mg. Kg -1 or mass during forty eight hours) on the state of GABA-shunt (glutamate-decarboxylase and GABA-transaminase activities, glutamate and GABA content) and its connection with oxidative decarboxylation of a-ketoglutarate and aminotransferase reactions in brain of rats. It was shown that after one hour of the last pycamilon injection intensification of a-ketoglutarate utilization on the way of GABA-shunt and ketoglutaratedehydrogenase way takes place in cerebellum. In the cortex the oxidative decarboxylation of a-ketoglutarate weakens by invariable intensity of the GABA-shunt work. The observed changes don't coincide with effects of GABA and nicotinate, administered in equimolar doses according to the same scheme.
STUDIES OF EFFECTS OF PYCAMILON AND VITAMINS OF B-GROUP ON SOME BIOCHEMICAL AND PHYSIOLOGICAL PROCESSES IN ORGANISMS OF EXPERIMENTAL ANIMALS
State Uhiversity, 2, Pyotr Veliky St., Odessa 270002, USSR
White mice and rats were injected intramuscular pycamilon alone and in combination with some Vitamins of B-group (B1, B6, lipoic acid) and also nicotinoyl-GABA in therapic doses. Pycamilon didn't influenee practically the pyruvate oxidation rate in organs of animals, but the rate may be significantly increased when pycamilon is applied in combination with vitamins of B-group, This can be used for strengthening and modificatlon of pycamilon pharmacological activity. Pycamilon is able to increase the placenta permeability for lipoic acid and to intensity its activating influence on pyruvatedehydrogenase in organs of rats. Injections of nicotinoyl-GABA increase appreciably nicotinamide coenzymes content in mice tissues changing their ratio in favour of reduced forms, that apparently explains its (and also pycamilon) poor influence on pyruvatedehydrogenase activity.
PHARMACOKINETICS, BIOTRANSFORMATION IN TISSUES AND CATABOLISM OF C-LABELED NICOTINOYL,GABA
State University, 2, pyotr Veliky St., Odessa 270002, USSR
Nicotinoyl-GABA labeled on the carboxy-proups of nicotinic acid residue and GABA were synthesized for the first time. The character of distribution in organs and tissues and catabolism in organism of nicotinoyl-GABA parenterally administered to mice in the doses Or 60-150 mg/kg differ from those for both initial compounds. Nicotinoyl-GABA is faster than nicotinate absorbed by blood from the place of administration, it better than GABA penetrates through blood-brain barrier and accumulates in larger quantities in brain and skeleton muscles; excretion with digestive secretions and urine is more intensive that of GABA. Nicotinoyl-GABA ia subjected in higher degree to enterohepatic recirculation, it catabolizes to CO2 less actively and mainly on account of' intestinal bacterial microflora. Nicotinoyl-GABA isn't practically subjected to metabolic transformation under influence of liverhomogenates, mucosa of small intestine and brain.
PHARMACOKINETICS OF PYCAMILON IN MICE
Institute of Biochemiatry, 50, Lenin Komsomol boul., Grodno 230009, USSR
Dynamic of concentrations oF the radioactive material in whole blood and organs of white mice as well as its excretion with urine in rats after per os or intravenous administration of sodium aalt of nicotinoyl-14c_ a-aminobutyric acid in the dose of 500 mg/kg with the specific radioactivity of 0,0069 uKi/mg have been atudied. Pycamilon is rapidly absorbed by blood (t max = 0,23 h) and penetrates well through blood-brain barrier. It is intensively absorbed by animal organs and tissues and retained in them from 3 to 6 hours. Pycamilon bioavailability is high enough and reaches 88% under intramuscular administration. Under per os administration in mice pycamilon bioavailability ie 21,9%, in rats from 53 to 78,9% depending on tbe dose (according urine excretion data).
EXPERIMENTALLY PHYSIOLOGICAL GROUNDS FOR APPLICATION OF THE NOOTROPIC DRUG PYCAMILON UNDER NATURAL VOYAGE CONDITIONS
Branch Of the Institute Of hygiene OF Water tranSport, 92, Sverdlova St., Odessa 270039, USSR
In the experiments with animals and men under natural voyage conditions the influence of the complex of unfavourable factors of ship environment on CNS physiological and biochemical indices was studied. The unfavourable effect of ship surroundings factor was established with predominance of the component due to noise and vibration, the mentioned affect was expressed in unbalanced decrease of the neuromediators (GABA and GL) content in the nervous tissue and as a result a damage in mobility of nervous procesess in CNS. Pycamilon application permitted to normalize the processes in the nervous tissue and CNS-physiological induces.
THE RESULTS OF CLINICAL STUDY OF THB DRUG PYCAMILON (AN ANALYSIS OF SOME DATA OF NEUROLOGIC AND PSYCHIATRIC CLINICS)
"Vitamins", 14 A, Nauchny proezd, Moscow 117246, USSR
The analysia of results of pycamilon clinical investigation in 16 neurologic and psychiatric clinics on 984 patients with various diseases is presented. Pycamilon effeciency and good tolerance were established, on this ground pycamilon was recommended by the Pharmacological Commitee of the Ministry of Health of USSR for application in medicine for insultus therapy, for treatment of transient disorders and chronic insufficiency of bloodcirculation and also as a tranquillizer without the sedative component and myorelaxation; pycamilon is recommended at asthenic disorders within the limits of different psychical diseases and for treating depressions of old age. As a therapeutic and prophylactic remedy pycamilon is recommended for rehabilitation of capacity for work and for increasing of stability towards physical and psichical burden. Pycamilon is used in narcology in the period of abstinence.
THERAPY OF THE PATIENTS WITH ISCHAEMIC DISORDERS OF CEREBRAL BLOODCIRCULATION WITH THE NEW NATIVE DRUG PYCAMILON (CLINICAL LABORATORY DATA)
Institute of Neurology, 8O, Volokolaskoye Highway, Moscow 123367, USSR
Treatment with the new drug pycamilon was carried out on 91 patients with various forms of cerebrovascular pathology. The pycamilon influence was studied on general cerebral and focal neurological symptomatics, on the level of arterial tension, on emotional state, on vefficiency and also on some parameters of cerebral bloodcirculation. Pycamilon effect was clearly shown in the acute stage of insultus and also in patients with disordera of cerebrai bloodcirculation. In the cases of transient disorders of cerebral bloodcirculation the effectiveness of the, drug is increased in combination with anticoagulants and antiaggregants. It resumed that pycamilon can be recommended for treatment of the patients with cerebrovascular disorders as a new drug improving the bloodcirculation and functional state of the brain simultaneously.
TO THE QUESTION OF PYCAMILON APPLICATION IN COMPLEX THERAPY OF ACUTE AND CHRONIC DISORDERS OF CERBBRAL BLOOD-CIRCULATION
Military Medica1 Academy, 6, Lebedyev St., Leningrad 194175, USSR
Pycamilon was found to be effective in 25 patients with insultus and in 28 patients with chronical insufficiency of cerebral circulation. Pycamilon action was studied on the basis of dynamics of the clinical course of the disease, of biochemical, psychophysiological. electroencephalographical and some other results. The positive effect was displayed in the majority of cases, no side-effects were registered. The results of investigation showed, that pycamilon is not only effective but it is the necessary drug in the complex therapy of cerebrovascular disorders. Besides this pycamilon can be used in treatment of different nervous system diseases, accompanied by emotional instability, sleep, memory and attention disorders. Besides vasodilatative and sedative effects pycamilon possesses also antihypoxic properties, that can be used in therapy and prophylaxis of different hypoxic states.
EFFECTIVENESS OF PYCAMILON APPLICATION FOR SOME FORMS OF CEREBROVASCULAR PATHOLOGY
Department of Neurology and Neurosurgery, Second Medical Institute, 1, Ostrovityanov St., Moscow 117437, USSR
The pycamilon therapy of 96 patients from 24 to 82 years old with different forms of cerebrovascular pathology has been carried out. The patients have been divided into following groups: ischaemic insultus of' hemispheric and trunk localization at the subacute period, bloodcirculation insufficiency in-the vertebro-basilar system with vestibular crisis and transitory global amneeia eyndrome, dyscirculatory encephalopathia, vegeto-vascular dystonia, hemicrania, an vasthenic syndrome after facile cerebral traumata and neuroinfections. The clinical, neuropsychological, electroencephalographic and reoencephalographic investigations have been carried out. The more pronounced efrect of pycamilon has been obtained by therapy of bloodcirculation disorders in the vertebrobasilar system with Meniere's-like and amnestic disorders and also by asthenic syndrome; in the cases of ischaemic insultus and dyscirculatory encephalopathia of II-III degree the effect has been less. - Pycamilon application has been recommended in the supporting doses under ambulatory conditions in the early stages Of encephalon bloodsupplying insufficiency with the irritative debility syndrome and mnemasthenia and also in the asthenic state and hemicrania.
THERAPEUTICAL EFFECTS OF PYCAMILON IN PATIENTS WITH NEUROVASCULAR DISEASES
Medical Institute, 12, Pademyu boul., Riga 226047, USSR
The effect of pycamilon cure in patiente with chronic cerebrovascular insufficiency (CCVI) of atherosclerosie genesis, with vegetative vascular dystonia (VVD) and with hemicrania (all togother 107 patients) has been studied. Estimation of pycamilon action on inices of cerebral bloodcirculation by the echopulsegraphic method (Echo PG) and ultrasonic dopplerography (USDG) in comparison with other nootropic and vesoactive druga has been carried out. Pycamilon influence on 1ipid metabolism, reological properties of blood and coagulation has been defined. It was found that pycamilon produced the therapeutical effect on cephalalgia of vascular with the exception of the associated form of hemicrania. The drug posessess the vasoactive effect especially in patients with CCVI, causing improving of blood flow to cephalic veins, decreasing of cerebrovascular resistance and increasing of the volume of pulse fluctuations together with tranquillizing and nootropic effects. Pycamilon normalizes tbe haemostatic system practically without influencing the blood viscosity and decreases the content of atherogenous B-lipoproteids increasing insignificantly at the same time the content of cholesterin and -cholesterin in bloodserum.
PYCAMILON APPLICATION IN THE COMPLEX OF REGENERATIVE THERAPY OF PATIENTS AFTER INSULTUS
Institute of Neurology, BO, Volokolamakoye Highway, Yoacow 123367, USSR
Pycamilon was applied for treatment of 36 patients with consequences of insultus of various degree of gravity. The distinct therapeutic effect was observed in 25 patients, i.e. in 70% of the cases. It is resumed that pycamilon can be used in the complex of regenerative therapy as the combined neurotrophic and vascular drug with the mild tranquillizing and antidepressive effecte. Pycamilon is especially recommended when the change a of emotionally voltitiona1 sphere take place (by a damage of the right cerebral hemisphere).
THE RESULTS OF PYCAMILON THERAPY IN PATIENTS WTTH HEMICRANIA
All-union Centre of vegetative pathology of the Ministry of Health Of USSR, First Medical Institute, 11, Rossolimo St., Moscow 119021, USSR
Efficiency of pycamilon in patients with hemicrania was studied. Indications for pycamilon application in response to the clinical form of hemicrania and to the course of disease were defined more exactly. It has been established that pycamilon has a pronounced effect on painfu1 hemicrania access both decreasing its intensity and mitigating or absolute ceasing of accompanying symptoms. Pycamilon is most effective for simple forms of hemicrania with preferentia1 1eft sided topoalgia in patients without pronounced depressive hypochondria.
EXPERIENCE OF ENDONASAL PYCAMILON ELECTROPHORESIS IN THERAPY OF PATIENTS WITH GRAVE CEREBRAL TRAUMA
Institute of Neurosurgery, 5, Fadeeva, Moscow 125047, USSR
The endonasal pycamilon electrophoresis has been applied for therapy of patients with grave cerebral trauma in different time of the posttraumatic period. The 5% solutions with different pH have been used. The improvement was significant in 6 patients, moderate - in 8 patients and insignificant in 4 patients. The best tolerance was observed for weak alkaline solutions with pH 7,3. The main positive effect displayed in changes of the psychical state, less efficiently but with a positive tendency in influencing upon motor and lingual defects. The positive clinical effect has been confirmed with EEG data. This therapy must be used with caution when there are some symptoms of epiactivity in the electroencephalogram.
THE RESULTS OF PYCAMILON APPLICATION FOR STABILIZATION OF VISUAL FUNCTIONS IN PATIENTS WITH PRIMARY OPEN-AUGLE GLAUCOMA
Gelmgoltz Institute of Eyediseasee, 14/19, Sadovo Chernogriaskaya St., MoScow 107064, USSR
The effect of the new drug pycamilon on visual functions and ocular haemodynamicS in 32 patients with primary openaugle glaucoma has been stUdied. Ae a result of therapy dilatation of field of vision, improvement of photosensibility and increase of the rheographic coefficient were observed in 47% of patients under examination. Pycamilon application for therapy of patients with open-augle glaucoma with normal intraoculars tension but ingravescent visual functions is considered advisable.
SOME DATA ON PYCAMILON CLINICAL APPLICATION
Institute of Psychiatry, Ministry of Health of RSFSR, 3, Poteshnaya St., Moscow 107076, USSR
Pycamilon was administered to patients with schizophrenia, including indoleut, neurosis-like and attack-like schizophrenia, to patients with manic-depressive psychosis in the depressive phase, with residua1 organic cerebral lesions and with other pathologies. The syndromological state was determined as depressive or neurosis like one. The small and middle doses of pycamilon resulted mainly in antiasthenic (moderately pronounced stimulating) effect. The positive pycamilon action on intellectual and physical capacity for accamt of the stimulating link of its psychotrophic activity is supposed. The drug is recommended for clinical use for complex therapy for patients with aethenic disorders.
THE PLACE OF PYCAMILON IN THERAPY OF ASTHENIC STATES IN PSYCHIATRY
State Medical Institute, Department of psychiatry, 95, Kulpsrkovskaya St., Lvov, 290021, USSR
Pycamilon was used in patients with asthenic symptomocomplex. The drug produced tbe pronounced "antiasthenic" effect, rising of general tonus, improving of intellectuallyamnestic functions, appearing of cheerfulness and feeling of comfort, facilitating of perception and fixing of new information. These qualities allowed to recommend pycamilon for therapy of asthenic states not only in psychiatry but also by genere1 somatic pathology and to use pycamilon for successful getting over some situations due to intellectual and emotional tension. The drug is well endured and easily combined with different drugs.
EXPERIENCE OF PYCAMILON APPLICATION FOR THERAPY OF PATIENTS WITH ASTHENIC STATES OF DIFFERENT GENESIS
University of People Friendship, 3, Ordzonikidze St., Moscow 117923, USSR
The drug was studied in 69 patients (men - 55, women - 14) under clinical and ambulatory conditions. The patients were in tho age from 18 to 28 years. In clinical picture of diseases one observed the asthenic symptoms of different genesis: psychogenic asthenia - 30 patients, traumatic cerebrasthenia - 18, somatogenic asthenia - 13 and so called asthenia of adaptation - 8. The course of treatment is from 30 to 45 days. The dose of the drug is from 0,02 to 0,06 easily. The control group (40 observations) corresponded strictly to the main group in sex, age, nosology and symptomatology of mentioned damages. The positive effect of pycamilon application was observed at an average in two weeks after beginning of therapy and remained for 1-2 months. In 8 cases we didn't observe the distinct positive dynamics of pycamilon application. In other observations the tranquillizing and stimulating effects of pycamilon were found in patients with asthenic symptomatics. There were not practically observed any side effects and complications of pycamilon application. The optimal therapeutical dose of pycamilon is to 0,04 g daily.
PYCAMILON APPLICATION IN COMPLEX THERAPY OF PATIENTS WITH ALCOHOLISM
All-Union Scientific Centre of Narcology of the Ministry of Health of USSR, 23, Kropotkinsky per., Moscow, 119034, USSR
The results of pycamilon clinical investigations while treating different states in patienta with alcoholism are analyzed. Some data are reported about the positive effect of the drug for interrupting of alcoholic abstinent ayndrome, chronic asthenic disorders after grave abstinent states and asthenic, astheno-neurotical and subdepressive disorders in patients with alcoholism in remission. The rather high activating and psychoregulating effects of pycamilon were observed. While by interrupting of abstinent disorders pycamilon produced the same positive effect in patients with 2 and 3 stage of alcoholism the comparative estimation of its influence out of abstinence and in remission indicated that pycamilon was most effective in treating patients with grave 2-3 and 3 stages of diseases. It is resumed that pycamilon application in complex therapy of patients with alcoholism is advisable.
EXPERIENCE OF PYCAMILON APPLICATION IN GERONTOPSYCHIATRIC PRACTICE
Institute of Clinical Psychiatry of the All-Union Centre of psychic health, 34, Kashirskoye highway, Moscow 115522, USSR
The clinical investigation of the new native drug pycamilon related to the GABA- derivatives allowed to show together with characteristic nootropic effect also the pronounced antidepressive mainly stimulating effect. The pronounced thymoleptic action of the drug is exhibited by administration in the doses of 60-120 mg in twenty-four hours and can be used for therapy of relatively not deep depressive states in old age. Pycamilon is preferable as an antidepressive drug in patients with neuroleptic side effects, At more grave depressions the complex therapy together with antidepressants of tri and tetracyclic structure comes true.
RESULTS OF THE COMPLEX CLINICO-PSYCHOPHYSIOLOGICAL STUDY OF THE NATIVE DRUG PYCAMILON
CNIMPL, 26, Raspletin St., Moscow 123060, USSR
In accordance with the results of pycamilon therapeutic efficiency investigations in 20 patients with different asthenic states both of endogenous and of exogenous and exogenoorganic character it was established that-pycamilon was a highly effective drug with respect to the asthenic disorders mainly of the exogenous and exogenoorganic character. The drug possesses a pronounced psychoenergizing effect and a moderate tranquillizing effect. At the same time pycamilon doesn't cause the excessive stimulation and exhaustion of energetic resources and its tranquillizing influence is not accompanied by excessive sedation, myorelaxation and somnolence. The drug is well tolerated by patients and it doesn't cause side and undesirable effects.
EXPERIENCE OF PYCAMILON APPLICATION FOR CORRECTION OF THE PSYCHICAL STATE UNDER TENSE AND EXTREME CONDITIONS OF ACTIVITY
CNIMPL, 26, Raspletin St., Moscow 123060, USSR
The study of pycamilon therapeutic efficiency for correction of the psychical state in men under different tense and extreme conditions of activity was carried out. Pycamilon was applied on 20 sportsmen in the period of the most intensive sporting and training activity and also on 19 men, the eye-witnesses of significant natural calamities who took an active part in liquidation of their consequences. Pycamilon was shown to possess a signiflcant positive effect on the appearing in some patients under the above mentioned condition neuro-psychic disordera of asthenic, asthenoneurotic and asthenodepressive character. Pycamilon application resulted already on the 2-nd- 3-rd day in considerable decreasing of psychopathological manifestations. Besides this pycamilon was found to increase the capacity of work and the organism stability to the action of significant physical and psychoemotional tension. This and the ability of the drug to influence on psychological and vegetative stress subsyndromes allow to resume on pycamilon acto- and stressprotective action.
EFFECT OF PYCAMILON ON SPORTSMEN PSYCHICAL STABILITY
Central scientific-reaearch institute Of medico-biologica1 problems of sport, 10, Elizavetinsky per., Moscow 103064, USSR
One of, the cardinal problems of sport medicine is aspect of psycho-emotional regulation in sport. The main aim of investigation is the study of' pycamilon effect on dynamics of structure of psychophysiological indices of sportsmen states under the conditions of complex-coordinative activity modelling. The investigation results have shown that the native original drug pycamilon cen be used in sport medicine for increasing the sportsmen psychical stability, optimization of psychical activity, especially before start under conditions of competitions. Pycamilon doesn't cause myorelaxation and sedative action; it is recommended for increasing the efficiency of the regulation system of complex-coordinative activity of sportsmen.
CLINICO-EXPERIMENTAL GROUNDS OF PYCAMILON (NICOTINOYL-GABA) APPLICATION IN GASTROENTEROLOGY
Central reaearch institute Of gastroenterology, 86, Enthusiasts highway, Moscow, 111123, USSR
On the basis of experimental and clinical investigation of the new vasoactive and nootropic drug pycamilon the ground for its application in gastroenterology is presented.
COMPARATIVE PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTIVITY OF PYCAMILON AND PYRACETAM UNDER THE CONDITIONS OF MODELLED ISCHEMIC AND HEMORRAGIC BRAIN INJURY
Medical Institute, 26, Pr. Mayakovskii, Zaporozhye, 330074, USSR
We have studied in the comparative aspects the influence of pycamilon and pyracetam in the dosage of' 250 mg/kg on the carbohydrate energetic metabolism, the activity of PLO and hyperfermentemy in the Vistar white rats. Under the conditions of the one-sided ligation of the common carotid artery and introduction of autoblood into the internal capsule. It has been established that both preparations essentially preserve the fund of macroergic phosphates, influence normalizingly the anaerobic and aerobic oxidation, lower heperfermentemy and the activity of the peroxidic lipide oxidation.Life Sci 1994;55(25-26):2057-66
Interaction between psychological and pharmacological treatment in cognitive impairment.
Deberdt W
UCB Pharma, Chemin du Foriest, Braine-l'Alleud, Belgium.------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Phenibut Science: (article from www.1fast400.com)
Phenibut (beta-phenyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid, also spelled fenibut, originally known as phenigamma) is a derivative of the neurtransmitter GABA that crosses the Blood Brain Barrier.
It was developed in Russia and there it has been used clinically since the 1960's for a range of purposes. Phenibut has both nootropic and anxiolytic (anxiety-reducing) properties, and it is commonly compared to diazapam (valium), Baclofen, and piracetam and it has similarities to and differences from all of these substances.Structurally, phenibut is similar to GABA, baclofen (p-C1-phenibut), and beta-phenylethylamine (PEA). Gaba is the primary inhibitory Neurotransmitter in the brain. The addition of the phenyl ring to GABA allows the compound to more easily cross the blood brain barrier , but also changes its activity profile. Baclofen is a drug used to treat severe spasticity of cerebral origin. PEA is a naturally occuring biogenic amine which is similar in structure to Amphetamine, and like Amphetamine, it is a stimulant that causes the release of Dopamine and Norepinephrine, and also promotes anixety in high enought amounts.
Phenibut is a GABA receptor agonist and also causes the release of GABA. Similar to Baclofen, phenibut is an agonist at GABA (B) receptors, although it does have some effect on Gaba (A) receptors as well. It is possible that phenibut has a higher activity at central Gaba (B) receptors than peripheral ones. The role of the GABA (B) receptor is not well-established, although research in the last seven years has significantly increased our understanding of the receptor. The most-well established role of GABA (B) receptors is inhibition of the release of some neurotransmitters, and it may also serve as a negative feedback mechanism for Gaba release.
(note: GHB, or Gamma Hydroxy Butrate), a now illegal drug as of 2000, yet before such, was sold back in the early 1990s for production of HGH, Sleep Induction, stress reduction. GHB, is a Gaba (B) agonist, which Temporarily blocks the release of dopamine, which explains that GABA B May do this process. If so, Phenibut may be a positive supplement for persons addicted to GHB, as I was, along with numerous other cases arising. But this is only my theory of such. I never tried Baclofen, but it also has muscle relaxing qualities)Because of the stucture similarity to (PEA), Phenibut may share some similarities and differences with it. When phenibut is administered along with PEA, it antagonizes many of its effect (or Blocks its effects), such as promotion of anxiety, promotion of siezures, and hyperthermia. This has lead some to postulate that antagonism of PEA, rather than the GABA mimetic activity, may be the important mechanism of action for the anxiolytic effect of phenibut. Phenibut also increases dopamine levels, and it has been postulated that the structural similarity to PEA may play a role in this effect.
There is one report in the literature of serotonergic effects of phenibut, but it does not look as though this has been followed up on.
(note: Taking 5-HTP with Phenibut will increase serotonin, and from research shown no interactions between the two.)Also, As it has stated that phenibut may increase dopamine. GHB, which also acts on GABA B, increases dopamine, but first it lowers dopamine, causing a build up of dopamine in the nerve cells, then as the ghb wears off, more dopamine is released due to the increase. This is specticle, but it does make some scence.
Effects of Phenibut
ANxiety Reduction, Phenibut is effective in many animal models of anxiety, although there is often dependence on study conditions. In cats classified as "anxious" or "passive", phenibut reduces the fear response and increases aggression in a confrontation situation, while it had no effect on aggressive cats. In normal cats, it lead to "positive emotional symptoms". In mice, phenibut increased social behavior. In rats, phenibut decreased some of the physiological responses to stress, including the elevation of glucocorticoid levels. Phenibut has also been reported to decrease the fear response causes by electrical stimulation and counteract the anxiogenic effect of the beta-carboline DMCM. Studies in rats examined the behavioral properties of phenibut when it was administered locally into different parts of the brain, and it usually lead to a reduction of anxiety, in one or more models.
The result of animal models dont always pan out in the real world, however, phenibut has a mechanism of action similar to that of many drugs which are known to reduce anxiety in humans. Animal studies have compared the profile of phenibut to valium, which has pronounced anxiolytic properties, and piracetam, which has weak anxiolytic properties. One study found phenibut had a tranquilizing effect similar to, but weaker than valium. It also caused sedation and muscle relaxation (where as piracetam did not), but again these effects were weaker than those caused by diazapam.
In Russia, Phenibut is commonly used to treat many neuroses, including post-tramatic stress disorder, stuttering, and insomnia. In double blind placebo-controlled studies, phenibut has reportedly been found to improve intellectual function, improve physical strength, and reduce fatigue in neurotic and psychotic patients.
Nootropic effects. Although phenibut does not meet all the requirements of a nootropic, or "smart nutrient/drug" it does have many similarities to piracetam. In mice, phenibut causes significant improvement on the passive avoidance test. In this test of memory, animals are put in an undesireable area(such as a lighting situation or height from the floor that the species dislikes), and then given a negative stimulus (such as shock) when they exit that area. Their ability to stay in the original area reflects how well they remember that if they exit it, they will receive the undesirable stimulus. Phenibut also improves performance on the swimming and rotarod tests and antagonizes the amnestic effect of chloramphenicol. It also has an antihypoxic effect, a trait commonly seen among nootropics. However, in one study, phenibut was ineffective in the water maze and shuttle box test, while piracetam was. Other studies shows that phenibut has nootropic properties similar to that of piracetam, but not as strong. Nootropic activity has also been reported in humans, but it was not specified whether these were healthy adult humans, and they were probably elderly or psychiatric patients.
Other effects. Phenibut has anticonvulsant activity against some drugs or conditions, but not others. It also potentiates the action of some other anticonvulsant drugs, and has been used to treat patients with epilepsy. Phenibut has been reported to reduce motion sickness, and used in the treatment of alcohol and MORPHINE withdrawl. One study indicated that phenibut increased resistance to heat stress and improved working capacity in humans.
Some studies indivate that phenibut has anti-arrhythmic properties in humans. It also has other cardioprotective properties. Finally, phenibut showed promise in experimental models of gastric lessions.
SIDE EFFECTS AND SUGGESTED USEPhenibut has low acute toxicity. Reported LD50 studies are 900 mg in mice, 700mg in rats, and 1000 mg in rats, other method of delivery not specified. Chronic administration of 50mg did not have teratogenic effects in rats. In clinical studies, no signs of toxicity have been reported, and side effects are few. Some report drowsiness, but this effect is not nearly aslikely or severe as with benzodiazapines.
One should be aware of potential drug interactions when taking phenibut. In many cases, it will decrease the threashold dose and potentiate certain actions of a drug. It amplifies some of the effects of anesthetics (ether, chloral hydrate, and barbiturates, diazepam, alcohol, and morphine; it would also presumably have an interaction with related drugs, such as other opiates and GHB. In contrast, taking phenibut with some other drugs, such as stimulants, will more likely just blunt their effects.
In humans, the plasma half life after a 250mg oral dose of phenibut is 5.3 hrs, and most of the administered drug is excreted unchanged. Clinical dosage range is from 250 to 1500mg daily, divided 3 times daily. Feedback indicates that the ideal dose may be in the higher end of this range. Tolerance may develope to phenibut, but not like nootropics, thus, taking breaks in chronic long term use is adviseable.
Refer to www.1fast400.com for article.
My opinion on these 2 substances, even though i did not take them yet, is that they may work better for some users or lesser or no effects for others. Some people have high tolerance to medications or drugs, that will possibly effect such.
I would try Phenibut as a first substance to experiment with. I take Adderall, Suboxone, and Klonopin. Phenibut, may, (in a positive light), help lower my dose of klonopin, help remove any anxiety caused by adderall, and may help potentiate suboxone effects, which is a positive effect, due to the fact suboxone is a drug for opiate cravings and withdrawl, and is a partial opiate. So by potentiating the drug, it would work better in staving off opiate cravings.
Also, the article states it does increase dopamine. This is a positive effect, due to the fact aphetamines (adderall) overtime, deplete dopamine storages, so this may help tolerance. Also, due to the GABA (B) agonist effect, similar to GHB, it may produce positive effects. GHB is known, besides its "date rape drug and knock out stigma", to produce a very happy, calm, but motivated and scence of serenity feeling. Also, anti-anxiety and muscle relaxation effect is a positive effect. But i dont see phenibut being very potent, so for addicts like myself, it would be feasable to take due to non addictive potency effects.
THank you for taking time to read these article. If I purchase these products, i will post about the effects.
Mindreseach
Posted by KaraS on August 31, 2004, at 10:39:30
In reply to Re: Picamilon and Phenibut, posted by mindreseacher on August 31, 2004, at 7:37:57
Thank you. I had already read a fair amount about Picamilon but hadn't known much about Phenibut. Nor did I know about Picamilon's possible contraindications with Valerian and Ginseng which I may have combined it with. Sounds very interesting though it's sometimes hard to get a real sense of these things until you actually experience them. I'd be curious to see how much of a dopamine effect it really has. Please do report back on your experiments with both and I'll let you know about my trial with Picamilon.
Kara
Posted by KaraS on August 31, 2004, at 10:41:12
In reply to Re: Picamilon and Phenibut » mindreseacher, posted by KaraS on August 31, 2004, at 10:39:30
> Thank you. I had already read a fair amount about Picamilon but hadn't known much about Phenibut. Nor did I know about Picamilon's possible contraindications with Valerian and Ginseng which I may have combined it with. Sounds very interesting though it's sometimes hard to get a real sense of these things until you actually experience them. I'd be curious to see how much of a dopamine effect it really has. Please do report back on your experiments with both and I'll let you know about my trial with Picamilon.
>
> Kara
>
The "sounds very interesting ..." part above was meant to refer to Phenibut.
Posted by jparsell82` on August 31, 2004, at 19:47:17
In reply to Picamilon and Phenibut, posted by mindreseacher on August 28, 2004, at 21:31:23
I've had better results with Phenibut than Picamilon. But tolerance tends to develop with the Phenibut. I know a cheap source for Picamilon/Phenibut. It's...
www.smi2le.biz
They offer Phenibut capsules and a combination of L-Theanine & Picamilon in capsules.
Posted by KaraS on August 31, 2004, at 22:33:54
In reply to Re: Picamilon and Phenibut, posted by jparsell82` on August 31, 2004, at 19:47:17
> I've had better results with Phenibut than Picamilon. But tolerance tends to develop with the Phenibut. I know a cheap source for Picamilon/Phenibut. It's...
>
> www.smi2le.biz
>
> They offer Phenibut capsules and a combination of L-Theanine & Picamilon in capsules.
Thanks. I've heard of them. Have it bookmarked and all - just haven't ordered from them yet. I think that's where I first heard of Phenibut.
Posted by johnnybaklava on August 26, 2009, at 15:05:11
In reply to Re: Picamilon and Phenibut » jparsell82`, posted by KaraS on August 31, 2004, at 22:33:54
> > I've had better results with Phenibut than Picamilon. But tolerance tends to develop with the Phenibut. I know a cheap source for Picamilon/Phenibut. It's...
> >
> > www.smi2le.biz
> >
> > They offer Phenibut capsules and a combination of L-Theanine & Picamilon in capsules.
>
>
> Thanks. I've heard of them. Have it bookmarked and all - just haven't ordered from them yet. I think that's where I first heard of Phenibut.
>Do you think, at low doses, picamilion could help with insomnia? It sounds like it can have a tranquilizing effect, like phenibut, at low doses, which would make sense considering the GABA and niacin, but I don't understand the stimulation aspect at higher does.
This is the end of the thread.
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