Psycho-Babble Alternative Thread 275826

Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Larry need some biochem advise

Posted by Robert Fairburn on November 2, 2003, at 15:24:53

larry I wonder if you could give me some advise on why Im deficient in serotinon.

I know that this is a large question but I'll try and provide you with as much relevant info as possible. I have a high count in Noradrenaline and Dopamine, which would indicate that there is no enzymic problems in the creation of these neurotransmitters. This in effect would wipe out Vitamin B6 as a problem. I am low in Magnesium and Zinc, however, I am not sure that these two metals are rate limiting for the conversion of Trytophan to 5-HTP. I have heard that Vitamin B3 creation absorbs any spare Trytophan and converts this into B3. This occurs at a ratio of 60:1 in comparison to creation of 5-HTP. I know that I have low serotinon through blood tests. However most serotinon resides in the Enteric Nervous System of a ratio of 9:1 compared to the CNS. Do you know of any studies that shows that there is a correlation between low plasma levels in blood and CNS levels.

PS I suffer from anxiety OCD which is also another contributing factor into me believing that I am suffering from low serotinon.

Regards,

Robert

 

Re: Larry need some biochem advise » Robert Fairburn

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 3, 2003, at 14:58:30

In reply to Larry need some biochem advise, posted by Robert Fairburn on November 2, 2003, at 15:24:53

> larry I wonder if you could give me some advise on why Im deficient in serotinon.
>
> I know that this is a large question but I'll try and provide you with as much relevant info as possible. I have a high count in Noradrenaline and Dopamine, which would indicate that there is no enzymic problems in the creation of these neurotransmitters. This in effect would wipe out Vitamin B6 as a problem. I am low in Magnesium and Zinc, however, I am not sure that these two metals are rate limiting for the conversion of Trytophan to 5-HTP.

They are both required, yes. In any case, both zinc and magnesium participate in numerous essential biochemical processes, so you should consider solving your deficiency problem without regard to the depression link.

> I have heard that Vitamin B3 creation absorbs any spare Trytophan and converts this into B3. This occurs at a ratio of 60:1 in comparison to creation of 5-HTP.

I'm not convinced of this. The *yield* of B3, on a molar basis, is around 1/60 of the availability of tryptophan, but that's not got any bearing on other tryptophan products, in my perhaps biased opinion. If you take niacin, or niacinamide, you'll more than replace the conversion from tryptophan.

> I know that I have low serotinon through blood tests. However most serotinon resides in the Enteric Nervous System of a ratio of 9:1 compared to the CNS.

Two or three to one, I accept, but not 9:1. Anyway, you most certainly have more serotonin in your digestive tract than in your entire central nervous system. That's one of the reasons why drugs targeting serotonin so often have digestive side effects.

> Do you know of any studies that shows that there is a correlation between low plasma levels in blood and CNS levels.

The evidence is less than compelling.

> PS I suffer from anxiety OCD which is also another contributing factor into me believing that I am suffering from low serotinon.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert

Robert, I strongly suggest to you that getting your magnesium, zinc, and selenium levels up, and adding in B-vitamins, and especially niacinamide, will help alleviate some of your symptoms. Also, fish oil is essential. Include antioxidants vitamin E, alphalipoic acid, to protect the fish oil from adverse reactions inside your body (the equivalent of rancidity outside the body). You may also find that phospholipid supps (lecithin granules and phosphatidylserine) will have a calming influence.

Lar

 

Re: Larry need some biochem advise

Posted by Robert Fairburn on November 3, 2003, at 17:50:31

In reply to Re: Larry need some biochem advise » Robert Fairburn, posted by Larry Hoover on November 3, 2003, at 14:58:30

Thanks lar for the reply I do appreciate it very much, I will give much thought to what you have said

I hope that all is well in the world for you

Regards Robert

 

How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by Robert Fairburn on November 3, 2003, at 18:19:41

In reply to Re: Larry need some biochem advise » Robert Fairburn, posted by Larry Hoover on November 3, 2003, at 14:58:30

Lar

How do you work out how much serotinon is in the cns, is there a specific way of finding out with out resorting to a pet scan

Regards Robert

 

Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by stjames on November 4, 2003, at 8:26:56

In reply to How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by Robert Fairburn on November 3, 2003, at 18:19:41

A spinal tap is the only way I know of, to sample CSF. PET scanning for this is an experimental method.

 

Robert, do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by McPac on November 5, 2003, at 1:03:38

In reply to How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by Robert Fairburn on November 3, 2003, at 18:19:41

http://www.doctorvolpe.com/anxiety.html

Click link, 7th paragraph...also the NeuroResearch folks (at www.neuroreplete.com) do urine testing for neurotransmitter levels

 

Re: Robert, do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by stjames on November 5, 2003, at 14:32:08

In reply to Robert, do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by McPac on November 5, 2003, at 1:03:38

> http://www.doctorvolpe.com/anxiety.html
>
> Click link, 7th paragraph...also the NeuroResearch folks (at www.neuroreplete.com) do urine testing for neurotransmitter levels

and urine levels don't relate to CNS levels

 

Re: Robert, do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by McPac on November 5, 2003, at 17:36:23

In reply to Re: Robert, do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by stjames on November 5, 2003, at 14:32:08

They say otherwise,lol

 

Re: Robert, do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by stjames on November 5, 2003, at 18:54:08

In reply to Re: Robert, do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by McPac on November 5, 2003, at 17:36:23

> They say otherwise,lol

I can put up a web page and say anything.


 

Re: Robert, do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by McPac on November 5, 2003, at 21:45:14

In reply to Re: Robert, do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by stjames on November 5, 2003, at 18:54:08

really? cool!

 

Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon » stjames

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 12, 2003, at 6:40:35

In reply to Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by stjames on November 4, 2003, at 8:26:56

> A spinal tap is the only way I know of, to sample CSF. PET scanning for this is an experimental method.

Quite correct, but the spinal tap only measures downstream metabolites. There are a number of variables which influence that, for example MAO-A and MAO-B activity, nutritional status, toxicants (e.g. pesticide exposure), and so on.

Urinalysis is even more downstream than that, being contributed to not only via diffusion from cerebro-spinal fluid, but also containing the remnants of peripheral neurotransmitter metabolism. Correlating that to brain levels is absurd. Even the idea that brain levels tell us anything might be absurd, so the entire premise is based on a premise.

There is no way to measure neurotransmitters that is of any real value, in my perhaps not so humble scientific opinion. Anyone who says otherwise charges a fee for the "service". Need I say any more?

In any case, anybody who "measures" urine neurotransmitter correlates also offers "therapies", right? So, just try different therapies, based on symptoms. Nobody would be having their urine tested who didn't already have symptoms, would they?

Lar

 

Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by stjames on November 12, 2003, at 15:58:44

In reply to Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon » stjames, posted by Larry Hoover on November 12, 2003, at 6:40:35

There is no way to measure neurotransmitters that is of any real value, in my perhaps not so humble scientific opinion.

I have been saying this for some time & I get treated to snide comments for saying this.

 

Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon » stjames

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 14, 2003, at 17:03:25

In reply to Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by stjames on November 12, 2003, at 15:58:44

> There is no way to measure neurotransmitters that is of any real value, in my perhaps not so humble scientific opinion.
>
> I have been saying this for some time & I get treated to snide comments for saying this.

Ya, but you're not me. <wink>

 

Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by McPac on November 14, 2003, at 23:45:53

In reply to Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon » stjames, posted by Larry Hoover on November 14, 2003, at 17:03:25

"Ya, but you're not me. <wink>"

LOL!


 

Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by stjames on November 17, 2003, at 11:07:58

In reply to Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by McPac on November 14, 2003, at 23:45:53

STFUAH

 

Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by McPac on November 19, 2003, at 23:03:06

In reply to Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by stjames on November 17, 2003, at 11:07:58

FUAH

LOL!

 

Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon

Posted by McPac on November 19, 2003, at 23:07:10

In reply to Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by stjames on November 17, 2003, at 11:07:58

POSCSF


lolol

 

Re: let's stick to alternative treatments, thanks (nm) » McPac

Posted by Dr. Bob on November 20, 2003, at 18:15:41

In reply to Re: How do I measure CNS levels of serotinon, posted by McPac on November 19, 2003, at 23:07:10


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