Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1117863

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NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?

Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2021, at 11:40:34

Copied and now pasted from NYT this morning. So is there an answer to this Omicon? Have you gotten vaccinated and a booster too? And which vaccine? Thanks Phillipa

The New York Times

2. Most of the worlds vaccines provide almost no defense against infection from Omicron, studies show.

All vaccines still seem to provide a significant degree of protection against serious illness from Omicron, which is the most crucial goal. But only the Pfizer and Moderna shots, when reinforced with a booster, appear to have success at stopping infections, and these vaccines are unavailable in most of the world.

The other shots including AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson and vaccines made in China and Russia do little to nothing to stop the spread of Omicron, early research shows. The gap could have a profound impact on the course of the pandemic.

Nations across Europe are tightening restrictions to prevent the spread from Omicron. The Netherlands became the first European country to announce a full lockdown to fight the variant. France is tightening rules for the unvaccinated. London declared a major incident or emergency for the first time since January

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?

Posted by linkadge on December 19, 2021, at 14:41:23

In reply to NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2021, at 11:40:34

I suppose just be happy you are in a region which has access to a vaccine which provides a statistically significant reduction in serious illness and death.

I got a Pfizer (1st) and Moderna (2nd). The moderna gave me more side effects (24 hours of feeling crappy), but it resolved quickly thereafter. I will probably opt for a pfizer booster but would also take the moderna.

Linkadge


 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? linkadge

Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2021, at 14:48:51

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by linkadge on December 19, 2021, at 14:41:23

Link so you feel the vaccines do work then for 75 old female which do you recommend that got J&J first? Thanks Phillipa

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?

Posted by SLS on December 19, 2021, at 19:46:25

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by linkadge on December 19, 2021, at 14:41:23

The Omicron variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus is estimated to be 5 times more transmissible / contagious than the Delta variant. At first, there was some conjecture that Omicron produced a milder COVID-19 disease. There are now reports that Omicron is just as virulent as the Delta variant. Omicron will become the dominant strain in the United States in just a few weeks. It is possible that Omicron spreads more quickly than Delta, but is just as lethal. I doubt there is a consensus.


- Scott

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? SLS

Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2021, at 20:13:25

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by SLS on December 19, 2021, at 19:46:25

Depends what you read. Right now we are told to keep a watch on the UK since it is also winter there. South Africa where it is said to have started all or most younger people and saying summer there. Plus the people there have been exposed and had more diseases than we have. So that is why reports out of there say milder. I think they messed up and since the flu vaccine for this year is a dud the vaccines could be as well. Are you vaccinated and boosted? Phillipa

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa

Posted by SLS on December 19, 2021, at 20:56:16

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? SLS, posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2021, at 20:13:25

> Depends what you read. Right now we are told to keep a watch on the UK since it is also winter there. South Africa where it is said to have started all or most younger people and saying summer there. Plus the people there have been exposed and had more diseases than we have. So that is why reports out of there say milder. I think they messed up and since the flu vaccine for this year is a dud the vaccines could be as well. Are you vaccinated and boosted? Phillipa

Thank you for the information, Phillipa. I forgot that you were a great nurse.

Moderna 1 vaccination + 2 vaccination + booster

:-)


- Scott

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? SLS

Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2021, at 23:31:03

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa, posted by SLS on December 19, 2021, at 20:56:16

Scott that is the vaccine my endocrinologist suggested but just the strength of the booster. I think a lot about all the years I did nurse and all the things I did and I did love it.

Don't you question if the Pfizer is safer at times due to the fact that this is the one they are giving to children? Then I think of Fauci and wonder. Phillipa

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa

Posted by SLS on December 20, 2021, at 12:09:43

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? SLS, posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2021, at 23:31:03

Phillipa,


> Don't you question if the Pfizer is safer at times due to the fact that this is the one they are giving to children? Then I think of Fauci and wonder. Phillipa


It might be a matter of whose vaccine was submitted to the FDA first. Perhaps Moderna was late in completing the clinical trials necessary for approval. So far, I have not seen anything hinting at less efficacy and greater risks for Moderna in the younger population.

Omicron might look like the original wave. It is 5 times more transmissible. The number of infections doubles every 2-3 days. It will become the dominant strain, and appears to be escaping the current vaccines to a degree that has yet to be determined.


- Scott

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 20, 2021, at 12:52:46

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa, posted by SLS on December 20, 2021, at 12:09:43

Oh crap. When are we going to see less dangerous strains? That might slowly lead to the end of the pandemic?


> Omicron might look like the original wave. It is 5 times more transmissible. The number of infections doubles every 2-3 days. It will become the dominant strain, and appears to be escaping the current vaccines to a degree that has yet to be determined.
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?

Posted by Hugh on December 20, 2021, at 13:33:04

In reply to NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2021, at 11:40:34

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/20/health/moderna-covid-booster-omicron.html

Dec. 20, 2021

A booster shot of the Moderna coronavirus vaccine significantly raises the level of antibodies that can thwart the Omicron variant, the company announced on Monday.

The news arrives as Omicron rapidly advances across the world, and most coronavirus vaccines seem unable to stave off infection from the highly contagious variant.

Moderna's results show that the currently authorized booster dose of 50 micrograms -- half the dose given for primary immunization -- increased the level of antibodies by roughly 37-fold, the company said. A full dose of 100 micrograms was even more powerful, raising antibody levels about 83-fold compared with pre-boost levels, Moderna said.

Both doses produced side effects comparable to those seen after the two-dose primary series. But the dose of 100 micrograms showed slightly more frequent adverse reactions relative to the authorized 50-microgram dose.

The results are based on laboratory tests that do not capture the full range of the body's immune response against the virus. Although vaccines may not prevent infection from the variant, they are expected to prevent severe illness in the vast majority of people.

The data have also not been published or reviewed by independent experts. Moderna said it was preparing a manuscript with the data that would be posted online.

The pharmaceutical companies Pfizer and BioNTech announced earlier this month that a booster shot of their vaccine also increased the level of antibodies against Omicron.

Moderna tested a third shot of several versions of its vaccine, each in 20 people. Before boosting, all the individuals had low levels of antibodies that can prevent Omicron infection. At Day 29, after receiving a third shot, the 50-microgram and 100-microgram doses of the current vaccine both sharply increased antibody levels.

The company also tested "multivalent" booster shots that incorporate mutations seen in the Beta and Delta variants, many of which are also present in Omicron. Those continuing trials each have 300 to 600 people enrolled in them. The 50-microgram and 100-microgram doses of the multivalent boosters increased antibody levels to similarly high levels, Moderna said.

Given how quickly Omicron is marching through the world, Moderna said, the company will focus its near-term efforts on extra shots of the original vaccine. It also plans to test a booster shot that is specific to the Omicron variant early next year and to include Omicron in a multivalent booster.

"To respond to this highly transmissible variant, Moderna will continue to rapidly advance an Omicron-specific booster candidate into clinical testing in case it becomes necessary in the future," said Stephane Bancel, Moderna's chief executive officer.

Apoorva Mandavilli is a reporter for The New York Times, focusing on science and global health. She is the 2019 winner of the Victor Cohn Prize for Excellence in Medical Science Reporting.

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? SLS

Posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2021, at 17:40:55

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa, posted by SLS on December 20, 2021, at 12:09:43

Scott yes they were the first to submit and gain approval for emergency authorized vaccinations. Second was Moderna and third for us was the J&J. Phillipa

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Hugh

Posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2021, at 17:44:04

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by Hugh on December 20, 2021, at 13:33:04

Hugh I read the exact same article today. Sounding like Moderna booster is the one most likely to be protective at the moment. Would be nice if Omnicon burned itself out before a specific vaccine said to be most likely ready in March is available. Phillipa

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines..please read (ALL)

Posted by Jay2112 on December 20, 2021, at 21:17:12

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by SLS on December 19, 2021, at 19:46:25

> The Omicron variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus is estimated to be 5 times more transmissible / contagious than the Delta variant. At first, there was some conjecture that Omicron produced a milder COVID-19 disease. There are now reports that Omicron is just as virulent as the Delta variant. Omicron will become the dominant strain in the United States in just a few weeks. It is possible that Omicron spreads more quickly than Delta, but is just as lethal. I doubt there is a consensus.
>
>
> - Scott
>

I don't think there is a consensus, and this bit from the New Yorker (behind a paywall) tells some important details in the trends of Omicron, to the anti-vaxxer's dismay. (Scott...absolutely NOT saying you are one...quite the opposite..lol. :)

--
"The first piece of good news is that this wave might be shorter lived than those of other variants. Every country is different, of course, with different population structures and different levels of immunity, both natural and from vaccination. But in South Africa, it appears that, while test positivity is still growing throughout the country, in the Omicron epicenter of Guateng the wave may be peaking already, with cases and hospital admissions both taking a visible turn, barely three weeks since the variant was first publicly announced and just five weeks since the first likely case. Guateng is not all of South Africa, of course, but a fast local peak still suggests the possibility of a very fast first wave. If the pattern holds and is replicated in the U.S., it could mean an American Omicron peak of cases sometime before the end of January."

==

"The second piece of good news is that as the wave progresses in South Africa, the cases continue to appear mild. This data is still early; typically, infections take several weeks to complete their clinical course, and probably we wont have a clear picture of the relative severity of Omicron in South Africa for another week or two, either. (As science journalist Kai Kupferschmidt wrote recently, This pandemic has been all about communicating uncertainty and it doesnt get more uncertain than early data on new variants.) On top of that, the picture will reflect conditions in South Africa as much as the inherent severity of the new variant, which means that, while illuminating, that forthcoming data will not be definitive, at least as concerns the future course of the Omicron elsewhere in the world. As William Hanage and Roby Bhattacharyya have argued, the early data might just reflect local acquired immunity, which offers significant but incomplete protection against severe disease, rather than innate properties of the variant itself. (This would make the relative protection of a given population a much more significant factor in the ultimate course of the wave than even how severe Omicron itself is.) But while excess deaths are beginning to grow in Guateng, indeed at the same rate as earlier waves, there are reasons to believe that the ultimate toll will be smaller than with Delta and earlier variants namely that, unlike in those previous waves, deaths in this wave are increasing at a much slower rate than cases are. At the moment, as John Burn-Murdoch of the Financial Times has tabulated, cases in Guateng are at 95 percent of their Delta peak, with deaths at only 10 percent of that peak; in the U.K., the proportion is the same. That is not to say that we should expect, at the end of the wave, proportionally only one-tenth as many deaths as were observed in the earlier waves there is a lag, often several weeks long, between case peaks and death peaks. But it is nevertheless an encouraging sign that the early indications that Omicron might produce, overall, more mild outcomes are still holding.

And the third piece of good news is that we now have a possible biological explanation for reduced severity, which gives the observed preliminary data another layer of plausibility. That comes from research by the University of Hong Kong, which finds that the new variant is much more efficient in reproducing in the upper respiratory tract, where you can cough and sneeze it out onto others, and much less efficient in the lungs, where it will be most dangerous to the infected host. A few weeks ago, in the very earliest days observing Omicron, the epidemiologist Francois Balloux called this the highly optimistic scenario which, if it came to pass, would mean the world had gotten really lucky. (He also suggested it could be a sign that the virus was, in fact, evolving in response to vaccines not in the way anti-vaxxers believe, by making it more virulent, but the opposite.)"

--
Jay

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa

Posted by Jay2112 on December 20, 2021, at 21:26:55

In reply to NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2021, at 11:40:34

Well, in the words of world-renowned scientist Dr. Neil degrasse Tyson, "The good thing about vaccines, is that they work whether you believe in them or not." :)

Jay

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa

Posted by Hugh on December 20, 2021, at 22:51:18

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Hugh, posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2021, at 17:44:04

> Hugh I read the exact same article today. Sounding like Moderna booster is the one most likely to be protective at the moment. Would be nice if Omnicon burned itself out before a specific vaccine said to be most likely ready in March is available. Phillipa

Moderna is the booster I got. My first two shots were Pfizer.

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Hugh

Posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2021, at 23:04:43

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa, posted by Hugh on December 20, 2021, at 22:51:18

Hugh now have to find it. Sounds like of the two Moderna is the one that now says their's if effective against this variant. I wonder what is said tomorrow? Phillipa

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 21, 2021, at 1:31:26

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa, posted by Hugh on December 20, 2021, at 22:51:18

I will probably get the same constellation. If you had the choice, would you have taken a third biontech? I am worried about my heart. But I hear B-B-M gives better protection against covid.

> Moderna is the booster I got. My first two shots were Pfizer.
>
>

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Lamdage22

Posted by Hugh on December 24, 2021, at 8:57:10

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by Lamdage22 on December 21, 2021, at 1:31:26

Moderna was my first choice for my booster. If you're worried about your heart, then go with Pfizer. It's only slightly less effective than Moderna.

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 24, 2021, at 9:25:54

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Lamdage22, posted by Hugh on December 24, 2021, at 8:57:10

The only way to not be concerned with Moderna would be not lifting for two weeks after the shot. I wouldn't like that!

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?

Posted by linkadge on December 24, 2021, at 16:45:32

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Hugh, posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2021, at 17:44:04

The Moderna vaccine is associated with slightly more pronounced side effects, but some studies also show it provides more durable protection. I got a Pfizer first dose (no side effects) and then a Moderna for a second shot. The Moderna produced more sickness (headache, chills, fever, pain) for me, but it rapidly subsided in 24 hours.

I would disagree with the notion that Omicron is equally deadly. The data (to date) seems to suggest it is milder and results in faster recovery. Yet, as mentioned, it is more transmissible. Time will tell on this, but obviously take all precautions.

Interestingly, the South African data seems to suggest that Omicron cases may peak and subside faster than with Delta. Cases of Omicron have been falling in South Africa (the region with first known cases) at the time of writing this.

I do recommend vaccination as the data shows it provides significant protection against severe outcomes and death. It does this with a very acceptable side effect profile. All of us here take drugs with rare (potentially lethal) side effects. For example, citalopram can (extremely rarely) kill you from effects on QT prolongation. This being said, we all make the cost-benefit judgments for psych meds and so I don't know why we wouldn't do it for vaccines as well.

P.S. my next-door neighbours (rabid antivaxxers) just got taken away in an ambulance. The son in law said they were both not feeling well for a few days and both were having difficulty breathing. This is likely COVID.

Linkadge

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa

Posted by Beckett2 on December 28, 2021, at 3:31:59

In reply to NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2021, at 11:40:34

Moderna for all three. Second shot of Moderna made by me Ill for 36 hours. Thats all. Still being very careful. Mental illness was recently listed by CDC as a risk factor. Inflammation I suspect. You still take Paxil (is it?) because it supposedly has shown some protection against severe illness.

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Beckett2

Posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2021, at 9:24:34

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Phillipa, posted by Beckett2 on December 28, 2021, at 3:31:59

Have not gotten a booster. Waiting as each day seems something new is released about the what some doctors are now saying are not really vaccines. Due to the fact that a vaccine irradicates a disease and these don't. Israel is now giving 4th shots. I keep watching the UK as what is happening there they say will or is predicted to be the same here in the US. I lost my my pdoc when the pandemic began he retired. No others are taking medicaire. So I'm alone using the meds that I have kept. Luvox is what I use with some lexapro but none are theraputic dose. Just 12.5mg of luvox, 2.5mg of lexapro. I have and need the .75mg of xanax to sleep with 7.5mg of valium. My endocrinologist has prescribed the benzos now for the last time. I have no idea what I will do now. Age 75 been on the benzos since age 24 taking much less than did then. Luvox is the one that they say they are studying for Covid. How are you? Phillipa

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 29, 2021, at 9:39:08

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Beckett2, posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2021, at 9:24:34

I got the Moderna Booster. I seem to be alright. From what I hear, the dose of the Moderna Booster equals that of Biontech initial immunization. So the heart risk should be equal?

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Lamdage22

Posted by Phillipa on December 29, 2021, at 18:27:37

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?, posted by Lamdage22 on December 29, 2021, at 9:39:08

Pfizer first two and now Moderna? Congrats you are more courageous than I am so far and need to get Moderna myself. How are you feeling? Phillipa

 

Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 30, 2021, at 0:47:32

In reply to Re: NYT today on vaccines Thoughts? Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on December 29, 2021, at 18:27:37

Exactly. Feeling ok.


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