Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1117476

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Re: (Really) Cold water

Posted by alexandra_k on November 20, 2021, at 22:25:14

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water, posted by alexandra_k on November 20, 2021, at 22:23:25

raaaaaaawwwwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrr.

hello world.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water

Posted by alexandra_k on November 20, 2021, at 22:32:04

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water, posted by alexandra_k on November 20, 2021, at 22:25:14

You could also think of it this way...

Life isn't worth living. Nothing you do makes any difference. Any move you make will only be exploited by other people to profit themselves at the expense of you. There is no meaningful work or activity to be done.

So then throw the person into icy water. See how long it takes them to (voluntarily choose to) activity schedule their way out of the ice bath. Or their depression. Or whatever you want to call it.

There is a physiological mechanism there, for sure. That could be used to 1) Help people in the face of a genuine need to re-set or 2) enable corrupt politicians etc etc to continue to profit themselves at the expense of you.

Which one do you think the government will fund?

Oh... But you have access to a private sector. Really? One that doesnt' subsist on government contracts?

I guess you don't live in New Zealand then.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water

Posted by Lamdage22 on November 25, 2021, at 2:49:40

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water, posted by Lamdage22 on November 19, 2021, at 12:41:23

From cold water to the new zealand government:)

 

Re: (Really) Cold water

Posted by alexandra_k on November 26, 2021, at 1:54:52

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water, posted by Lamdage22 on November 25, 2021, at 2:49:40

sorry

 

Re: (Really) Cold water undopaminergic

Posted by Jay2112 on November 28, 2021, at 16:46:05

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water, posted by undopaminergic on November 17, 2021, at 14:33:59

> > https://www.bbc.com/news/health-45487187.amp
>
> The "scary" "falling" attractions at a fun fair shook me up in a way that may be analogous to immersion in cold water. I felt different, maybe more alive, for some time after it.
>
> -undopaminergic
>

Hey UD,

I frickin HATED those scary rides...I barely survived a ferris wheel ride!! I deplore all of those, and any, fast or high or whatever, ride. And that was going back to 8 or 9?

The only thing that EVER gave me a rush was/is good, loud music! I have been a drummer for about 38 years, and the deeply emotive intensity gave me these beautiful, powerful bathing in light feeling. No drug has EVER come close to replacing it, or nearly even close. And at 52, I LOVE a ton of a bit older and even a lot of new music. But, performing it and listening, gives me goosebumps....I showed that to a bandmate of mine once, when we were listening to an awesome piece of music, and he could feel the hair standing up on my arm. It's like, what I imagine is, the most incredible heroin trip ever. Oddly, tons of musicians have long history's of mental illness.

Here is a good example of a similar face I always made playing:
https://bit.ly/3HYyvRD :)

Jay

 

Re: (Really) Cold water

Posted by rjlockhart37 on November 29, 2021, at 1:59:06

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water, posted by Lamdage22 on November 17, 2021, at 21:17:55

i've read that somwehre on the net, that it does increase dopamine through reaction in colder tempetures, and places. I guess dopamine is activated during this, as survival mode or etc

 

Re: (Really) Cold water

Posted by Lamdage22 on November 29, 2021, at 5:17:39

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water, posted by rjlockhart37 on November 29, 2021, at 1:59:06

I have to say, I don't feel like swimming in a lake at the end of november :) I just find it interesting.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water

Posted by Lamdage22 on November 29, 2021, at 5:18:19

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water, posted by Lamdage22 on November 29, 2021, at 5:17:39

It could be dangerous, too, if you are not used to it.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water Jay2112

Posted by undopaminergic on November 29, 2021, at 7:37:46

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water undopaminergic, posted by Jay2112 on November 28, 2021, at 16:46:05

> >
> > The "scary" "falling" attractions at a fun fair shook me up in a way that may be analogous to immersion in cold water. I felt different, maybe more alive, for some time after it.
> >
> > -undopaminergic
> >
>
> Hey UD,
>
> I frickin HATED those scary rides...I barely survived a ferris wheel ride!! I deplore all of those, and any, fast or high or whatever, ride. And that was going back to 8 or 9?
>

Did you ever dare try them? Did they have any effect on you emotionally or otherwise?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: (Really) Cold water

Posted by Jay2112 on November 30, 2021, at 20:20:14

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water Jay2112, posted by undopaminergic on November 29, 2021, at 7:37:46

> > >
> > > The "scary" "falling" attractions at a fun fair shook me up in a way that may be analogous to immersion in cold water. I felt different, maybe more alive, for some time after it.
> > >
> > > -undopaminergic
> > >
> >
> > Hey UD,
> >
> > I frickin HATED those scary rides...I barely survived a ferris wheel ride!! I deplore all of those, and any, fast or high or whatever, ride. And that was going back to 8 or 9?
> >
>
> Did you ever dare try them? Did they have any effect on you emotionally or otherwise?
>
> -undopaminergic
>

I tried a ferris wheel and a kiddie coaster. I threw up, thought imminent death was right...well..there!! Just...nausea, intense vertigo..and my introduction to massive panic and anxiety attacks. 9 year old dying of a heart attack..lol.

Never....my bucket list involves bird watching. Dare to live...eh? lol

Jay

Jay

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.. Lamdage22

Posted by Jay2112 on November 30, 2021, at 20:25:13

In reply to (Really) Cold water, posted by Lamdage22 on November 17, 2021, at 9:14:51

> https://www.bbc.com/news/health-45487187.amp

Yep...in the insane asylums in Europe, a few centuries ago, they used to 'hose down' the lunatics like me with huge water canons. Kinda like taking horse de-wormer for a virus...ugghh..lol

Jay

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 5:08:45

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.. Lamdage22, posted by Jay2112 on November 30, 2021, at 20:25:13

I'm not a fan of "against their will" treatment unless it is an emergency that endangers the life of the patient or others.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 5:18:10

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 5:08:45

There are rare cases where people just don't want to live. And it is not necessarily always a crazed temporary state. In the case of a crazed temporary state, I'd say treat them and protect them from themselves. But sometimes it is not that. So I see more of a problem endangering others than oneself. It depends.

It is a very difficult topic.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 5:25:20

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 5:18:10

I once considered myself a hopeless case and I was wrong. I do want to live now so in my case it made sense what the doctors did. However, subjectively, the hope that was left was improving nutrition and getting a good therapist. With meds alone, I think I'd still not want to live.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 1, 2021, at 8:56:59

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 5:25:20

> I once considered myself a hopeless case and I was wrong. I do want to live now so in my case it made sense what the doctors did. However, subjectively, the hope that was left was improving nutrition and getting a good therapist. With meds alone, I think I'd still not want to live.
>

Psychostimulants used to wipe out my suicidal ideation in a matter of minutes after a dose.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 9:21:10

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by undopaminergic on December 1, 2021, at 8:56:59

They dont anymore? My psychiatrist wouldnt prescribe. Did you get more delusions etc. while on them? I recall you experience psychotic symptomd at times.

> Psychostimulants used to wipe out my suicidal ideation in a matter of minutes after a dose.
>
> -undopaminergic
>

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 1, 2021, at 11:01:37

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 9:21:10

> They dont anymore?

At first, a potent dopaminergic stimulant like methylphenidate was enough on its own. Last time I checked, however, I needed a sizeable (maybe 500 mg) dose of caffeine in addition.

> My psychiatrist wouldnt prescribe. Did you get more delusions etc. while on them? I recall you experience psychotic symptomd at times.
>

Not directly, but indirectly, by relieving my apathy, which comes with poverty of thought, there was simply a tremendous quantity of additional (beyond apathy) thoughts, some of which sometimes turning into delusions. So, with stimulants, there is simply much more opportunity for delusions to form -- at least if they provide relief from baseline apathy. But it's worth it. (Very few of the delusions were actually problematic.)

-undopaminergic

> > Psychostimulants used to wipe out my suicidal ideation in a matter of minutes after a dose.
> >
> > -undopaminergic
> >
>
>

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 13:58:54

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by undopaminergic on December 1, 2021, at 11:01:37

I understand you are excited that it relieved your symptoms but I question how sustainable that is long term. IE Would it keep producing that result. Do you think it would?

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.. Lamdage22

Posted by Jay2112 on December 1, 2021, at 15:59:36

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 5:25:20

> I once considered myself a hopeless case and I was wrong. I do want to live now so in my case it made sense what the doctors did. However, subjectively, the hope that was left was improving nutrition and getting a good therapist. With meds alone, I think I'd still not want to live.

Actually, I think we are quite similar! Being bipolar II, I really want to avoid getting too 'low' or off the freakin walls 'high'. And...to me..it's always been.."Whatever gets you through the night". Medications are just a part of the tools, the equation into whatever 'health and happiness' is. I am still looking for good therapy, as it is hard for me to monetarily afford.

Jay

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 23:28:47

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.. Lamdage22, posted by Jay2112 on December 1, 2021, at 15:59:36

It took a long time of trial and error for me to find someone who can facilitate positive change. I am leaning more towards analytical therapy than CBT which is why my current therapist works analytically. A history of psychosis does not necessarily mean you can't work analytically. I found that out two years ago.

Hang in there.

> I am still looking for good therapy, as it is hard for me to monetarily afford.
>
> Jay
>
>

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 2, 2021, at 3:57:14

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 23:28:47

It is a shame that insurances don't cover psychotherapy in most countries. After all, society has an interest in members as healthy as possible. And you leave a certain percentage of possible improvement behind. I think that percentage is pretty high.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 2, 2021, at 8:35:47

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 13:58:54

> I understand you are excited that it relieved your symptoms but I question how sustainable that is long term. IE Would it keep producing that result. Do you think it would?
>

Well, as I implied, the dopaminergic (cocaine-like) stimulant on its own stopped working, although it did happen only after many years. So in that sense, it wasn't sustainable. I don't know if the combination with caffeine would also stop working with time. So the answer to your question is maybe -- I don't know.

I'm unable to use this treatment now because I'm hospitalised and the doctors here are very negative toward this class of drugs, as well as benzodiazepines, and certain others, including anticholinergics; meanwhile they are infatuated with clozapine and olanzapine (Zyprexa).

When I get discharged, I don't know what I'll do. I want to be able to "naturally" feel and function well, without drugs, and if I use them, I'm afraid I'll remain dependent on them indefinitely as a crutch. But can I afford to waste years of my life on remaining depressed when I know there are treatments that help?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 2, 2021, at 8:40:33

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 1, 2021, at 23:28:47

> I am leaning more towards analytical therapy than CBT ...

Me too.

> A history of psychosis does not necessarily mean you can't work analytically.
>

Of course. Why would it?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 2, 2021, at 8:42:51

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 2, 2021, at 3:57:14

> It is a shame that insurances don't cover psychotherapy in most countries. After all, society has an interest in members as healthy as possible. And you leave a certain percentage of possible improvement behind. I think that percentage is pretty high.
>

It is, depending on how well the therapy succeeds. I like to think there is no limit in theory, but it's hard in practice.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 2, 2021, at 10:21:58

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by undopaminergic on December 2, 2021, at 8:42:51

Well some psychiatrists and psychologists said to me I shall not do analytical therapy. But they had conflict of interest for sure. 100 % improvement would be pretty damn awesome. I heard of a woman who did therapy for 40 years.

And how does Olanzapine and or Clozapine make you feel? At least you have internet there. What was the reason for hospitalization?

It sounds like the dopamine stabilizing antipsychotics could be good in theory. Abilify etc Just not sure if it works out in real life very often.


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