Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1106897

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CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?

Posted by jay2112 on November 29, 2019, at 18:14:55

Just thought I would note some of my continued cannabis and CBD/THC use for severe BP2 Depression. Today, pay day, bought some CBD oil, the kind with no THC in it, and within 15 or so minutes after ingesting use, I started to feel just outright emotionally horrid. It was under the tongue sublingual, but was reminiscent of the really bad blues I got from cannabis when bought from the street. I don't know about trying it again. I spent 50 bucks on it, when I could have legally purchased Government certified kush brand, which have a nice kick. This was just horrible, though. I tend to have a positive reaction, in low doses, to opioids as well...but also to lithium and lamotragine. So it continues....p.s. Advance thanks...:)

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?

Posted by linkadge on November 30, 2019, at 7:21:36

In reply to CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?, posted by jay2112 on November 29, 2019, at 18:14:55

Hi,

I suppose you need to make sure you have purchased from a reputable supplier. A recent analysis of various CBD products in the US revealed that few of them contained the stated amount of CBD.

I do swear by CBD myself. I purchase a strain called 'Tower' dry cannabis with 11.5% potential CBD and <1% potential THC. I mix in a pinch of 'ghost train haze' (a very high THC strain ~22%). I purchased the Adrent Nova decaboxylator (which activates the CBD/THC) and then infuse it in olive oil).

I don't do well on high CBD or high THC products alone. But the combination of 2:1 (or so) CBD:THC gives me a very positive effect with few side effects.

Linkadge

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? jay2112

Posted by linkadge on November 30, 2019, at 7:30:38

In reply to CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?, posted by jay2112 on November 29, 2019, at 18:14:55

You mentioned purchasing 'government certified'...

Can you purchase a government certified high CBD strain?

Linkadge

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?

Posted by Lamdage22 on November 30, 2019, at 13:05:56

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? jay2112, posted by linkadge on November 30, 2019, at 7:30:38

CBD made me highly anxious. Go figure. It is described in the literature as something that happens sometimes

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? linkadge

Posted by jay2112 on November 30, 2019, at 13:42:10

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? jay2112, posted by linkadge on November 30, 2019, at 7:30:38

> You mentioned purchasing 'government certified'...
>
> Can you purchase a government certified high CBD strain?
>
> Linkadge

Linkadge, I have looked for a powerful strain hybrid CBD and THC on all of the government sites, and they don't seem to produce anything like it (yet). I would love a high powered THC strain, to knock me on my butt before sleep, but they don't seem to have powerful CBD too, and it is very expensive to buy the two separately. Not too fond of vaping, as I have breathing problems as it is. But, might be the only road to go. As you know, the whole plant has many different effects. How does vaping work? Sounds like a science, to me..lol. All of the expensive parts, this, that.

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?

Posted by linkadge on November 30, 2019, at 17:06:43

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? linkadge, posted by jay2112 on November 30, 2019, at 13:42:10

Yeah, I'm not sure what you have available to you. I'm with a licensed producer (Aurora) here in Canada.

You're right, I have not seen a single strain with both high THC and high CBD. Organigram (again, here in Canada) had one with ~8% CBD and ~8% THC, but that's out of stock at the moment.

I purchase two products 'Tower' (high in CBD) and Ghost Train Haze (high in THC). I would concur with anecdotal reports that adding CBD to THC enhances the effect (and, for me at least) reduces harshness and/or side effects.

Initially, I went with oils, then I combined that with vaping. Vaping is more cost effective, but as you mention it's likely not the best thing to do long term, if you can help it. Keep in mind, many of the lung injuries (making the news) are associated with cartridge vaporizers (i.e. e-liquids) rather than dry herb vaporizers.

A dry herb vaporizer basically warms the herb up till the THC decarboxylates and boils off. Because it doesn't 'burn' the herb, it is not producing the same carcinogens as combustion. However, you are still breathing in somewhat hot air, which may not be great. Some sophisticated vaporizers will run the air through a cooling unit.

I have good success making edibles. So, I buy dried buds, grind them up, heat them (~240F for 1 hour) and then pulverize and add oil. This produces a much stronger effect (i.e. less needed) and lasts longer. I basically mix some of the THC and CBD herb together.

As far as cost, yes it can add up. For ~$90 CAD I can get 10 grams shipped to my door all in. I get 5g's of each strain.

Linkadge



 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?

Posted by linkadge on November 30, 2019, at 17:09:39

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? linkadge, posted by jay2112 on November 30, 2019, at 13:42:10

Another thing to keep in mind is that CBD may actually have cannabinoid antagonist properties (in some experiments this has been the case). In other words, having a poor response to one doesn't necessarily mean that THC might not affect you positively. THC gets a bad rap, but (in reality) most medical cannabis users are using higher THC strains (pain relief, appetite stimulation, sedation) are all effects of THC.

But, as mentioned, you need a good product to know the effect.

Linkadge

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?

Posted by Fred23 on December 1, 2019, at 8:26:31

In reply to CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?, posted by jay2112 on November 29, 2019, at 18:14:55

This market is even more difficult to figure out than the name brand vs. generics, and then which generic, with prescription medications.

The actual experience may be totally unrelated to what the consituents are on paper (those COAs).

One may work wonderfully, another giving a bad effect, and yet another having no effect at all, but they would all seem to be similar products.

I am weaning off Lexapro and Klonopin, and am finding CBD to be useful.

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? Fred23

Posted by linkadge on December 1, 2019, at 11:10:13

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?, posted by Fred23 on December 1, 2019, at 8:26:31

Thanks for sharing.

I've noticed too that the level of THC and CBD isn't necessarily proportional to the effect. The terpenes likely have an impact on the overall effect.

I grew some this past summer and harvested it late (trichomes turned more yellow). I understand this allows the THC to turn to CBN which can have more of a sedative effect.

I have noticed fairly consistent effects by sticking with the same producer and product.

Linkadge

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?

Posted by undopaminergic on December 2, 2019, at 12:10:53

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?, posted by linkadge on November 30, 2019, at 17:09:39

> THC gets a bad rap, but (in reality) most medical cannabis users are using higher THC strains (pain relief, appetite stimulation, sedation) are all effects of THC.
>

I'm totally drug-naive when it comes to cannabinoids. That is, I've never tried.

I was very skeptical to opioids for the longest time. I saw them as sedatives-hypnotics, albeit perhaps useful if you have pain or insomnia. Strangely I got a morphine high (that I've been unable to reproduce) from a combination of codeine cough syrup and another cough syrup containing dextromethorphan and salbutamol. In this state, I felt totally satisfied, comfortable, free from all aversive sensations and feelings, and perhaps most remarkably, I felt relaxed (muscularly) for the first time in my life. I wouldn't say it was downright euphoria, but more like feeling comfortable, the way perhaps a healthy person would feel when they have no worries on their mind. I was immediately convinced that opies were a good thing, and I wanted to try again. That borders on psychological addiction -- from a single high, and a mild one at that!

I am likewise skeptical of cannabinoids. You say "pain relief, appetite stimulation, sedation". The first is always a good thing, but I fortunately don't need it. The second and third are "contraindications" in my view. I've also read they impair working memory. It's even worse than what I "knew" about opies before I tried them. But maybe I'm just prejudiced, so what should I realistically expect? What's in it for me?

A little side-note on benzodiazepines. I have experience with several of them, including midazolam, oxazepam, clonazepam, and temazepam. I have experience with an extreme dose of clonazepam -- over 90 x 2 mg tablets. Still, I fail to see what's so great about them. Yes, midazolam (Dormicum) will help you sleep, but that sleep is next to worthless, due to its low quality. For once-in-a-while usage, I would rather use an opie, although I have read good things about GHB for this purpose.

With stimulants, I was convinced they were great even before trying. They turned out in some ways not as great as I imagined, but nevertheless they are the most useful drugs I know and suit my lifestyle and preferences and even eradicate my worst symptom, apathy. At times, I've been a total stimulant fiend, staying awake for days on end.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?

Posted by linkadge on December 2, 2019, at 15:39:07

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?, posted by undopaminergic on December 2, 2019, at 12:10:53

I have been using medical cannabis now for 1.5 years at (more or less) the exact same dose. I have not noticed a loss of effect (although some days I need a slightly higher dose)

The idea of memory loss is actually what I am going for! My depression is often associated with major rumination, racing thoughts, and inability to see the big picture.

I take cannabis at night and it slows my mind down to the point I can sleep. The 'memory wipe' literally makes it impossible for me to remember my problems. I can get a mental break for 10-12 hours and then get back up and face the day again.

As for amotivational syndrome, again this is a positive for me. At night, I need something to slow me down (as I often having sundowning, where I want to do more at night, which throws off my sleep).

After the dose wears off, my motivation, memory, concentration, focus all return (AFAIK) back to baseline. I just get a nice 10-12 hour vacation from my problems, which leaves me more able to tackle my problems upon return.

Many antidepressants indirectly work via a cannabinoid mechanism. The TCAs for example, require an intact endocannabanioid system in order to reduce HPA axis responsiveness. Cannabinoids also have antidepressant effects in animal models.

Interestingly, I also notice a mild psychedelic effect whereby I feel that something has changed in me 'spiritually' where I feel like I see a higher reality. I see my problems in a new context. I detach from them and see them like I would see somebody else's problems. When I return, I feel like my life is in a better position. Traditional meds don't do anything to enhance a spiritual recovery. For me at least (I know it sounds hokey) feeling connection to a higher reality is important for my mental health.

Linkadge



 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? linkadge

Posted by undopaminergic on December 4, 2019, at 8:32:06

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?, posted by linkadge on December 2, 2019, at 15:39:07

> Many antidepressants indirectly work via a cannabinoid mechanism. The TCAs for example, require an intact endocannabanioid system in order to reduce HPA axis responsiveness. Cannabinoids also have antidepressant effects in animal models.
>

That is interesting. I'm currently on trimipramine (Surmontil), which seems to be the only (or one of few) antidepressants that suppress cortisol secretion at night, and allows it to rebound in the mornings. Trimipramine has been shown to normalise the circadian cortisol curve in those where it is abnormal.

> Interestingly, I also notice a mild psychedelic effect whereby I feel that something has changed in me 'spiritually' where I feel like I see a higher reality. I see my problems in a new context. I detach from them and see them like I would see somebody else's problems. When I return, I feel like my life is in a better position. Traditional meds don't do anything to enhance a spiritual recovery. For me at least (I know it sounds hokey) feeling connection to a higher reality is important for my mental health.
>

I'm very spiritual and have had many experiences, including visiting a parallel reality. I was quite materialistic before my psychosis in the end of 2009, after which I have evolved dramatically. When I looked at my notes from before the psychosis, it looked like they had been written by a whole other person.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 5, 2019, at 6:04:24

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? linkadge, posted by undopaminergic on December 4, 2019, at 8:32:06

I feel similar. My psychosis was in 2010. I rejected my past life as I found that I had only been trying to get my parent's attention and they didn't love me the way I am/was. After I communicated this to my Psychologist I felt so serene, happy and content for 4-5 hours like never before. I didn't know what the word serenity meant.

Psychosis can be transformational but it can also be very destructive.


> I'm very spiritual and have had many experiences, including visiting a parallel reality. I was quite materialistic before my psychosis in the end of 2009, after which I have evolved dramatically. When I looked at my notes from before the psychosis, it looked like they had been written by a whole other person.
>
> -undopaminergic
>

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 5, 2019, at 6:05:48

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?, posted by Lamdage22 on December 5, 2019, at 6:04:24

It felt like Nirvana or Heaven or something of that sort.

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on December 5, 2019, at 16:06:17

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? linkadge, posted by undopaminergic on December 4, 2019, at 8:32:06

>I'm very spiritual and have had many experiences, >including visiting a parallel reality. I was quite >materialistic before my psychosis in the end of >2009, after which I have evolved dramatically. When >I looked at my notes from before the psychosis, it >looked like they had been written by a whole other >person.

Interesting. I know these 'experiences' are typically seen as abnormal, but some modern research into psychedelics seems to suggest that having such an experience can lead to improved mental health for an extended period.

I'm not talking about extreme distortions (i.e. thinking you are Jesus or the like). For me it was an out of body experience where I saw myself externally (like a parent viewing their child). I realized that much of my pain was self imposed by unrealistic expectations and fabricated 'first-word' problems. I felt that I briefly connected to everything and everybody. After this experience there was a satisfaction with just being alive and the ability to experience the wonder of the universe even if I cannot fully understand it or control it.

I have since been able to 'let go' of things that I cannot change. That's not to say I am symptom free permanently. As mentioned in previous posts, I have had relapses of anxiety (more physical, however) and there might be a physical explanation.

Different strains of marijuana can produce very different effects. I actually don't like high THC strains as they just disconnect me without any of the psychological healing.

It's interesting however, whenever I have such experiences I know that I will feel better for a while (and I'm usually right). I've had a single 'trip' leave me in remission for weeks at a time. The best 'trips' are when the ego is completely shattered. I hate my ego. It is the source of so many of my problems.

Linkadge

 

Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments? Lamdage22

Posted by linkadge on December 5, 2019, at 16:13:19

In reply to Re: CBD and THC and My Experimentation...comments?, posted by Lamdage22 on December 5, 2019, at 6:05:48

For me, the ego sets up expectations that ultimately lead to disappointment or fear when goals are not accomplished or when routines change. My problems are accompanied by an inability to see things in perspective.

We grasp at material possessions to try and fill a hole that was never meant to be filled by 'stuff'. We don't bring anything into this world and we don't take anything out. When I think of civilizations and their lavish funerals (say for the Pharos) with tombs filled with material wealth I can't help but feel that these people were not enlightened.

I still fear the dying process, but I don't think I fear death. The destruction of the ego leads to an existence which is defined by the connection to ones surroundings, and not to the symbols and interpretations we have of them.


Linkadge


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