Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1106447

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 14, 2019, at 9:07:21

So last tuesday my psych raised my effexor dose to 150mg and prescribed me .5mg klonopin to take twice a day. it is helping. this last week has been the most asymptomatic week ive had in a while. thing is i feel guilt about taking a 'demon drug' benzo. i try to put blinders on to the horror stories but sometimes its hard to do that. what are your experiences with klonopin and others like it?

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by Hugh on October 14, 2019, at 12:02:08

In reply to Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 14, 2019, at 9:07:21

I'm one of those benzo horror stories. Mine was with lorazepam. Tolerance, dependence, terrible inter-dose withdrawal, a hellish four-month taper, doing a crossover to diazepam halfway through. After I was benzo free, I felt broken for many months. The depression, anxiety, and insomnia I suffered throughout all of the above were far worse than anything I'd experienced before, or since.

On the bright side, it appears that about two-thirds of people can take benzos long-term with no, or at least mild, ill effects. So the odds are in your favor.

My main piece of benzo advice is that if you do develop tolerance to your initial dosage, and you're tempted to increase your dosage, DON'T DO IT. That's the time to start tapering off.

I recommend that you go to this link and scroll down to the section on tolerance:

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by Christ_empowered on October 14, 2019, at 12:36:25

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by Hugh on October 14, 2019, at 12:02:08

hi. maybe gabapentin? i would say that other one...lyrica is the brand name...but now it seems there's a discontinuation syndrome associated with it, so...add in the higher cost and the lack of data and experience (compared to say valium) and...nah, probably not the best idea.


anyway...i had a hellish taper off klonopin. i was a lot younger, i had slack docs, the dosage was excessive...and really, what bothers me now isn't so much that the taper was rough, its that i got blamed for the whole thing. when the going gets rough...psychiatrists blame the patient. true story.

if your doctor is willing to consider it, maybe ask about taking valium, instead of klonopin? i think its klonopinx20=roughly equivalent valium dosage. valium is easier to taper than many (most?) other benzodiazepines, although...it has its own drawbacks, of course.

oh, and...not to frighten you, but all benzodiazepines can cause depression or make it worse...and klonopin is the worst. i had drug induced depression from klonopin, rough...but my dose was higher than yours. i just don't want anyone to have to go thru all that junk and then get blamed for it all by the doctor(s) involved.

hope this helps. :-)

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 14, 2019, at 13:54:03

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by Christ_empowered on October 14, 2019, at 12:36:25


yikes. well that is all a bit scary. what was your dose of klonopin and how long were you taking it for? i really dont want to be on it long term at all...my next psych appt is oct 30 and that point i want to start winding it down. after hearing this may cut down to breaking the pill in half which he gave me the option to do.


> hi. maybe gabapentin? i would say that other one...lyrica is the brand name...but now it seems there's a discontinuation syndrome associated with it, so...add in the higher cost and the lack of data and experience (compared to say valium) and...nah, probably not the best idea.
>
>
> anyway...i had a hellish taper off klonopin. i was a lot younger, i had slack docs, the dosage was excessive...and really, what bothers me now isn't so much that the taper was rough, its that i got blamed for the whole thing. when the going gets rough...psychiatrists blame the patient. true story.
>
> if your doctor is willing to consider it, maybe ask about taking valium, instead of klonopin? i think its klonopinx20=roughly equivalent valium dosage. valium is easier to taper than many (most?) other benzodiazepines, although...it has its own drawbacks, of course.
>
> oh, and...not to frighten you, but all benzodiazepines can cause depression or make it worse...and klonopin is the worst. i had drug induced depression from klonopin, rough...but my dose was higher than yours. i just don't want anyone to have to go thru all that junk and then get blamed for it all by the doctor(s) involved.
>
> hope this helps. :-)

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by vbs on October 14, 2019, at 23:01:43

In reply to Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 14, 2019, at 9:07:21

That's great you're mostly symptom free. You will probably be on Klonopin short-term as you adjust to the higher Effexor dose. As an aside, in my opinion I don't think gabapentin would counter-balance the effects of Effexor. Lyrica and Neurontin are weird drugs. Ask your pdoc how long he wants you to take the "demon drug."

vbs

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 15, 2019, at 0:26:50

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by vbs on October 14, 2019, at 23:01:43

i was on clonazepam for 2 years, it is far impairment in cognitive, and it made me depressed. But one thing i did notice that it was miraclous for sleep, 3-4mg go to bed fine. But going through the day on klonopin was sedating, i was one it for years. And the real fact, there's no euphoria or drug liking with it....well for me, i've read all these stories about addiction to klonopin, and i just don't understand the drug made me so depressed, i hated it. It woudlnt definetly put you to sleep, or calm you down, but it lowered my mood.

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 15, 2019, at 9:05:12

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by rjlockhart37 on October 15, 2019, at 0:26:50

my only real fear with it is that it will exacerbate my depression, which the effexor is starting to lift me out of. i cut my dose from .5mg to .25mg twice a day and will most likely be doing that till 0ct 30 and evaluate with my doc. last night actually felt better with the 1/2 dose than the full, had been completely zonked in the afternoon with .5mg was able to stay up and hang out with wife last night and watch tv without passing out

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by Christ_empowered on October 15, 2019, at 13:12:18

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 15, 2019, at 9:05:12

i was on 2-3mgs/day by prescription in my late teens, along with 'z' hypnotics every.single.night, and the taper was hell on earth.

your dosage is a lot lower, your personality is probably a lot less unstable than mine was in my late teens (obviously, I've grown up a lot...), and it seems you aren't being given any 'z' hypnotics or other sedatives for night time use, so...

as much as I (understandably) loathe Klonopin, I don't think you'll end up as a horror story with such a low dosage, short term treatment, good doctor, good support system, etc.

i will say that -if- you and the doctor involved decide a benzodiazepine is called for on an occasional basis, ativan was a lot nicer to me for strictly as-needed use. true story.

hope this helps. :-)

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 15, 2019, at 13:25:10

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by Christ_empowered on October 15, 2019, at 13:12:18

thanks...yes i am also on zolpidem to help me sleep so unfortunately yeah ive got that going for me too..been on that a month...my goal is to be feeling well enough to be only on effexor by end of year. i took ativan for 3 days and hated it, made me feel really low after i took it. not for me i guess.

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 15, 2019, at 22:46:54

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 15, 2019, at 13:25:10

klonopin was potent with me, it would defiently have a calm hit, stronger than lorazepam. If you bad insomnia, clonzepam is good option. But it did make me depressed, not really depressed in gerneal, but i felt under stimulated and kinda ... too sedated. But there are so many people who have benefited from it for panic attacks, and severe anxiety. It is a good med in some ciricumstances, it's potent and anti-panic med, but it's just ... sedating. lorazepam was not as strong as klonopin

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 16, 2019, at 8:12:49

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by rjlockhart37 on October 15, 2019, at 22:46:54

for me my anxiety is much worse in the morning...still kind of getting my feet under me but i feel like i do better with .5mg in the morning and then .25mg in the afternoon..otherwise its night night time at like 8

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by Beckett2 on October 16, 2019, at 17:37:13

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 14, 2019, at 13:54:03

Just 2. Lyrica withdrawal is not nearly as severe as benzodiazepine withdrawal can be, and Lyrica could be useful and more useful than gabapentin.

Not everyone has a difficult withdrawal from benzodiazepine. If you're taking a z drug concurrently, that may effect your withdrawal. My withdrawal from benzodiazepine was difficult and long lasting, but I was on them for about a decade :/

Wishing you well w the Effexor. Glad your having some near normal days. (I think that's what you said.

 

Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 17, 2019, at 8:47:11

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by Beckett2 on October 16, 2019, at 17:37:13

thanks...there was a time where i took gabapentin for chronic headaches..didnt seem to do a whole lot for me except make me kind of surly..it was a quick withdrawal with every muscle in my body feeling like it was pulled but mentally no real problems..im coming to a conclusion that i dont care what im taking as long as it helps me feel better..im 45 have 2 grade school boys and 14 hour days between a very stress filled job and then taking care of the boys/homework/sports/general mayhem etc etc..taking klonopin to help cope seems like a rational response for now, my wife likes me better on it because im less quick to anger. of course im gonna follow whatever recommendations my psych has, for example i think im probably on my last 30 day rx of the zolpidem..im falling asleep without it now..but catching up on a month of waking up at 3-4 am and getting some rest finally..i dont think my psych believes in long term benzo rx but we'll see what he says, honestly i feel like im a better person on them but also dont want it to take a turn for the worse, so i will follow his guidance.


> Just 2. Lyrica withdrawal is not nearly as severe as benzodiazepine withdrawal can be, and Lyrica could be useful and more useful than gabapentin.
>
> Not everyone has a difficult withdrawal from benzodiazepine. If you're taking a z drug concurrently, that may effect your withdrawal. My withdrawal from benzodiazepine was difficult and long lasting, but I was on them for about a decade :/
>
> Wishing you well w the Effexor. Glad your having some near normal days. (I think that's what you said.

 

Klonopin

Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2019, at 8:31:16

In reply to Re: Starting Klonopin and Feeling Guilty, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 17, 2019, at 8:47:11

I think as long as you don't get an urge to take more its justifiable. Don't succumb to that urge should you have it.

 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 18, 2019, at 9:30:24

In reply to Klonopin, posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2019, at 8:31:16

thanks i will keep that in mind. havent had that urge, my push and pull in my mind is should i take less right now not more, on Oct 30 my hope is to work out a taper plan with my doc to get off.

> I think as long as you don't get an urge to take more its justifiable. Don't succumb to that urge should you have it.

 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 23, 2019, at 9:02:30

In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 18, 2019, at 9:30:24

I start ramping off the klonopin today, only used for 2 1/2 weeks. dr said to cut dose in half for 3 days then as needed..i was doing .5mg 2x now i will do .25mg 2x for 3 days then probably .25mg 1x for 3 days then stop...hope it goes ok.

> thanks i will keep that in mind. havent had that urge, my push and pull in my mind is should i take less right now not more, on Oct 30 my hope is to work out a taper plan with my doc to get off.
>
> > I think as long as you don't get an urge to take more its justifiable. Don't succumb to that urge should you have it.
>
>

 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Lamdage22 on October 26, 2019, at 15:12:00

In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 23, 2019, at 9:02:30

If you are on edge after a step, stay on that dosage a little longer before taking the next step down.

I am very content with my 10mg Lorazepam for 12 weeks arrangement. Now I don't take it unless there is an "emergency".

 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 28, 2019, at 10:12:53

In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Lamdage22 on October 26, 2019, at 15:12:00

so i am sad to report the stepdown did not go well. first sign of trouble was i started waking up early again after two days of 1/2 dose, then saturday was supposed to be no dose and that went horribly, so ive gone back to the .5 mg 2x day as i was doing, seeing my psych on wednesday. just trying to regain my footing now and get back to feeling as ok as i felt before attempting the stepdown. its discouraging and i am just so conflicted and confused about this med. i was hoping that my stepup to 150mg on effexor would be enough but its clear at least at this point it isnt (been on 75 mg effexor 3 weeks, 150mg plus 1 mg klonopin 3 weeks). the 3 weeks on 150mg effexor plus klonopin felt near normal, then guilt and impatience set in and now ive had a setback. makes me very sad and worried.


> If you are on edge after a step, stay on that dosage a little longer before taking the next step down.
>
> I am very content with my 10mg Lorazepam for 12 weeks arrangement. Now I don't take it unless there is an "emergency".

 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Lamdage22 on October 28, 2019, at 12:04:50

In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 28, 2019, at 10:12:53

Sorry to hear that. It seems that you guys underestimated this drug. If one step down already makes you jittery, dont do another one. Hope your doctor takes this seriously.

 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Lamdage22 on October 28, 2019, at 12:14:29

In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Lamdage22 on October 28, 2019, at 12:04:50

I think you should wait until you have stabilized on the lower dose. I have had this dynamic where i went down with neuroleptics too quickly and i ended up where i started or even worse.

 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 28, 2019, at 13:20:02

In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Lamdage22 on October 28, 2019, at 12:14:29

thanks yeah i think i learned my lesson. gonna take it very slow. i know benzos are a very sensitive topic. they seemed to help me a lot. and i know they cause dependence. in my mind though im dependent on effexor too..and sometimes need to up the dose...the whole benzo situation is confusing and frustrating to me.

 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Lamdage22 on October 28, 2019, at 16:04:51

In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 28, 2019, at 13:20:02

I think it is a dependency, too but you don't get a kick out of Venlafaxine and so it is not abused very often. I have met people who take enormous amounts of benzos. Like 20 times the normal dosage. People don't take 20 times the recommended dosage of Venlafaxine.

So that's why people are more worried about the Benzos. Tolerance builds up so damn quickly


 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 28, 2019, at 16:15:47

In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Lamdage22 on October 28, 2019, at 16:04:51

yikes. well, like you said earlier, i think its important to respect the med and how hard it is to get off. my hope and plan is to very slowly and judiciously decrease. i want effexor to be what gets me better, not klonopin. im just not there yet. i hope i get there.

 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Lamdage22 on October 30, 2019, at 10:31:25

In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 28, 2019, at 16:15:47

Is your psychiatrist on board? I think you will be ok if you don't rush it.

 

Re: Klonopin

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 30, 2019, at 11:45:02

In reply to Re: Klonopin, posted by Lamdage22 on October 30, 2019, at 10:31:25

i'll find out today i see him at 6 pm :-)

> Is your psychiatrist on board? I think you will be ok if you don't rush it.


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