Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1106270

Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Hoopa1013 on September 30, 2019, at 8:54:31

I just finished week 2 on 75 mg of Effexor and it is a roller coaster from hell. This is my 4th time getting on a med and everytime it is like this. Can anyone explain chemically why this is?

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by linkadge on September 30, 2019, at 15:43:58

In reply to Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Hoopa1013 on September 30, 2019, at 8:54:31

I assume you've tried meds like escitalopram? Effexor can be harsh for some people. I can't tolerate more than 37.5mg. Biochemically, not sure, but for some people, antidepressants don't decrease anxiety.

Linkadge

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Lamdage22 on September 30, 2019, at 21:34:47

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by linkadge on September 30, 2019, at 15:43:58

I always quit immediately when I feel worse. I have little tolerance for that!

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 1, 2019, at 11:02:42

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by linkadge on September 30, 2019, at 15:43:58

I've been on celexa, lexapro, and effexor at various times, actually was on 150mg effexor from 2015 until this spring when i tapered off now going back on, ive had the same experience every time where the first few weeks are just torturous and then it gets better, and my doctor is supportive in telling me to hang in there and it will get better. its the experiences ive had in the past that keep me hopeful this time.

> I assume you've tried meds like escitalopram? Effexor can be harsh for some people. I can't tolerate more than 37.5mg. Biochemically, not sure, but for some people, antidepressants don't decrease anxiety.
>
> Linkadge

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Christ_empowered on October 2, 2019, at 1:02:09

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 1, 2019, at 11:02:42

not to push -more- psych drugs on you, but...

benzodiazepines, gabapentin, perhaps lyrica...even some low dose antipsychotics (not my 1st choice for my own body, but an option, nonetheless...) can all help make the antidepressant start up phase a bit easier to bear, for some people. some times, anyway. reassuring, i know. welcome to psychiatry.

but seriously...ask the doctor for some kind of short term chemical fix. he/she should be kind and professional enough to prescribe...something, hopefully.

:-)

 

keep akathisia symptoms in mind, if applicable Hoopa1013

Posted by iforgotmypassword on October 2, 2019, at 6:57:42

In reply to Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Hoopa1013 on September 30, 2019, at 8:54:31

are you pacing and frequently feel urgency with particularly physical restlessness that makes your skin or limbs feel like they can't get rid of energy? bruxism? does your face feel like it needs to stretch and you can't stop wincing or your noticing your face want to climb into rigid non-rest positions when idle?

anything like this and i'd worry about akathisia and doctors i doubt have gotten any better about recognising it or wanting to. they'll make decisions around it, like add meds like cogentin or up your benzos, but it's not really spoken plainly about. this sounds very cynical, but i don't know what else to say. ssri side effects have been taboo since the healy affair.

if you're on an antipsychotic with little reason given and you don't normally think about, or for sleep, this likely increases risk as the drug class is even more formally linked to these problems.

 

Re: keep akathisia symptoms in mind, if applicable

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 2, 2019, at 9:45:14

In reply to keep akathisia symptoms in mind, if applicable Hoopa1013, posted by iforgotmypassword on October 2, 2019, at 6:57:42

no from what you describe i dont have those akathisia symptoms, im generally able to relax at night with my wife most of the time, its mostly working and mornings that are the toughest for me

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 2, 2019, at 10:10:13

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Christ_empowered on October 2, 2019, at 1:02:09

thanks for the reply, benzos kinda scare me, i took them before last time i started on antidepressants and i liked them a little more than i was comfortable with, so i want to avoid this time around, gabapentin is a possibility since i was on that before for headaches and i know i tolerate it, didnt know it helps with anxiety. so far ive been relying on breathing, lots of h20 and chamomile, therapy twice a week, the affirmation that things will get better, and the love of my wife and my kids. all of those things have helped. still hard though.


>

not to push -more- psych drugs on you, but...
>
> benzodiazepines, gabapentin, perhaps lyrica...even some low dose antipsychotics (not my 1st choice for my own body, but an option, nonetheless...) can all help make the antidepressant start up phase a bit easier to bear, for some people. some times, anyway. reassuring, i know. welcome to psychiatry.
>
> but seriously...ask the doctor for some kind of short term chemical fix. he/she should be kind and professional enough to prescribe...something, hopefully.
>
> :-)

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 3, 2019, at 13:20:52

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Christ_empowered on October 2, 2019, at 1:02:09

Actually I have an interesting story about this, yesterday my wife went to see my p-doc (we see the same one, shes doing really well, my follow up appt is in 2 weeks) and talked with him about whether i can/should take lorazepam when i am struggling (she has some from her prescription), she told him i am afraid of benzos, he didnt seem averse to it and said that my fear of benzos is the anxiety talking, which kind of made sense to me and tracks with what you said. we will see my next appt i am probably going to be raised to 150mg effexor as my psych says at that level it acts on norepinephrine which can improve anxiety (it worked for me last time), and if i am struggling still will have a long conversation with him about possibly getting benzos to help. in the meantime i guess i have my wifes lorazepam as a line of defense.


> not to push -more- psych drugs on you, but...
>
> benzodiazepines, gabapentin, perhaps lyrica...even some low dose antipsychotics (not my 1st choice for my own body, but an option, nonetheless...) can all help make the antidepressant start up phase a bit easier to bear, for some people. some times, anyway. reassuring, i know. welcome to psychiatry.
>
> but seriously...ask the doctor for some kind of short term chemical fix. he/she should be kind and professional enough to prescribe...something, hopefully.
>
> :-)

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Christ_empowered on October 3, 2019, at 19:41:42

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 3, 2019, at 13:20:52

hi. no doubt, benzodiazepine dependence can be an ugly beast. tapers can be rough. even people who stay on relatively low doses for long enough often report problems (new or exacerbated depression, anxiety between doses, cognitive and emotional dulling, etc.), but...

generally speaking, it -seems- that short(ish) term, as needed use is not that big of a deal...except for the massive relief it can offer, of course. other than that...

gabapentin, lyrica wouldn't be my 1st choices, but they do seem to help a lot of people. Lyrica has a reputation in some circles for the same sort of discontinuation problem, after steady usage at "therapeutic doses" that one sees with benzodiazepines. lame. gabapentin...I think is less potent, so it stands to reason there should be less of a problem with tapers and such (?). i take gabapentin, and stopping and starting has never been a problem for me, personally.


low dose neuroleptics/antipsychotics have been used to soothe some people with some problems with antidepressant start up...with some success. LOL. I'd ask for something else, first, but...some of the newer neuroleptics can also help with response to antidepressants (I've read a number of studies showing faster response when low dose Abilify is added, for instance...but not improvement in overall remission), so its not like back in the day, when "antipsychotic" meant rough, chemical cosh pills.

it dawned on me that buspar (buspirone) might, maybe, possibly help...but again, its also sometimes used to improve response to antidepressants, and it tends to be a long term treatment, not a quick fix. with full dose antidepressants on board, I think there's also a somewhat increased risk of serotonin syndrome to contend with (I could be wrong, obviously).

hope this helps.

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Lamdage22 on October 4, 2019, at 12:50:43

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Hoopa1013 on October 3, 2019, at 13:20:52

You may be struggling more often if you take Lorazepam leading to you taking more of it. I speak from experience. Be careful.

I agreed with my doctor that he will be giving me no more than 10mg for 6 weeks. I think this is reasonable. Its the smallest amount available. This way I will only use it when things get REALLY bad.

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 6, 2019, at 17:46:23

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Christ_empowered on October 3, 2019, at 19:41:42

thanks. i got my appointment with my psych moved up to this week instead of next, in the meantime he is prescribing me lorazepam and says i can take it every day for now (meaning the next few days until i get in to see him) i took one this morning and it did help. 150 mg of effexor helped me a lot last time i went thru this, im at 75 now bc my doc doesnt want me to go up to 150 too fast but maybe this week we will see..thank you for your response really though, i appreciate it.

> hi. no doubt, benzodiazepine dependence can be an ugly beast. tapers can be rough. even people who stay on relatively low doses for long enough often report problems (new or exacerbated depression, anxiety between doses, cognitive and emotional dulling, etc.), but...
>
> generally speaking, it -seems- that short(ish) term, as needed use is not that big of a deal...except for the massive relief it can offer, of course. other than that...
>
> gabapentin, lyrica wouldn't be my 1st choices, but they do seem to help a lot of people. Lyrica has a reputation in some circles for the same sort of discontinuation problem, after steady usage at "therapeutic doses" that one sees with benzodiazepines. lame. gabapentin...I think is less potent, so it stands to reason there should be less of a problem with tapers and such (?). i take gabapentin, and stopping and starting has never been a problem for me, personally.
>
>
> low dose neuroleptics/antipsychotics have been used to soothe some people with some problems with antidepressant start up...with some success. LOL. I'd ask for something else, first, but...some of the newer neuroleptics can also help with response to antidepressants (I've read a number of studies showing faster response when low dose Abilify is added, for instance...but not improvement in overall remission), so its not like back in the day, when "antipsychotic" meant rough, chemical cosh pills.
>
> it dawned on me that buspar (buspirone) might, maybe, possibly help...but again, its also sometimes used to improve response to antidepressants, and it tends to be a long term treatment, not a quick fix. with full dose antidepressants on board, I think there's also a somewhat increased risk of serotonin syndrome to contend with (I could be wrong, obviously).
>
> hope this helps.

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 6, 2019, at 17:49:08

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 4, 2019, at 12:50:43

thanks i am being super careful with it. have only taken one so far. i did get my psych appt moved up to this week though, using them as a bridge for a few days to that.

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Lamdage22 on October 9, 2019, at 6:12:29

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 4, 2019, at 12:50:43

Trouble starts when you have an urge to take more than prescribed.

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by Hoopa1013 on October 9, 2019, at 9:13:42

In reply to Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 9, 2019, at 6:12:29

i went to the psych yesterday and he raised my effexor to 150 mg and gave me .5mg of klonopin to take twice a day with the effexor. right now no real urge to take the klonopin it just makes me kind of sleepy, we'll see i hear it may take time to build up and it acts slowly..i trust my psych alot he stays in close communication with me

 

Re: Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?

Posted by bleauberry on October 18, 2019, at 15:39:59

In reply to Why Is Getting On a Med So Hard?, posted by Hoopa1013 on September 30, 2019, at 8:54:31

Some people just jump into a new med with no problem. For others it is extremely challenging.

If it's a real problem, then something isn't right. My journey suggests that being sensitive to psych meds is a sign of one of 2 things: 1.It's not a so-called chemical imbalance, and the med itself is causing a chemical imbalance that is unnatural and problematic for your situation, rather than correcting an imbalance. 2.Lyme, stealth, misdiagnosed, or totally missed.

What is Effexor going to do? Well, it will cause a backlog of serotonin to build up in the area of the receptors, a buildup which is not natural, which causes overflow to be mopped up by other receptors not meant for serotonin - for example the dopamine and norepinephrine receptors will get some of the excess. Feedback loops will sense genetically that there is too much serotonin all of sudden, and will send instructions to stop manufacturing more, to stop firing more, to slow down. The brain will actually see a reduction in receptors, a destruction actually, as the genetic response to excess serotonin from the med.

Somewhere in all of that adjusting is where the med is supposed to "kick in". When it's kicked in, if it ever does kick in, is when all that changing and adjusting has happened, and the dust has settled. Whether that leaves your feeling better or not is a totally different story.

Effexor happens to be harder than most to get on, and definitely way harsher than most to get off of it. You think it's hard getting on it. That's the easier part.

So I don't know anything about your case or why Effexor was chosen. I just think a difficult start is not a good sign. Not a good prognosis. It doesn't mean it can't end well. But the odds are low. There are even clinical studies that suggest what I just said is true. That a rapid response and an easy time getting on a med is predictive of a good outcome later down the road, and that a slow response or a difficult start are predictive of a worse outcome.

I think Prozac is a better choice, combined with either Ritalin, Adderall, or Savella, to get a similar chemical coverage of Effexor, except with way better mechanisms and way better control of the various parts. With Effexor you have no control of serotonin versus norepinephrine versus dopamine.


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