Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1105323

Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by rose45 on July 19, 2019, at 14:17:36

I have posted on this subject several times already but am really DESPERATE. Tried a private psychiatrist who was a waste of time - and the nhs here in the uk just keep you waiting weeks and weeks.

Has anyone on here found that parnate pooped out on them and then they withdrew, and found that it worked again after a certain amount of time?

I would take the risk of withdrawing on my own maybe, but would find it hard to be without medication at all, so really dont know what to do.

It has been suggested that I could go back on nadil which pooped out on me 5 years ago, but nardil had too many side effects for me, and I was on it for 20 years, so it may not work again either.

Also has anyone found that the two medications change your personality? I became super confident, over talkative, arrogant on both maois. Started a business which i would otherwise never have had the confidence to do... etc....

My understanding is that most anti depressants do not have this type of effect - Is that correct...;?
But now that the parnate isnt working, I am so anxious, and my mind, and memory are not working at all, and Ive lost all sense of who I am. Is this an unusual reaction ?

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by Radish on July 19, 2019, at 18:46:37

In reply to HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by rose45 on July 19, 2019, at 14:17:36

I wouldnt withdraw on your own without at least a plan to start a new med. I have heard of people needing to cycle back and forth between Nardil and Parnate (with washout periods) in order to stay well, but I see that Nardil had too many SEs for you. I have read of people regaining the effects of an MAOI after poopout but I believe it was after having it out of their system for three months (I could be incorrect on this exact timeframe) and then retrying it.

I dont know the system in the UK, but since you mention youre at the point of desperation, is it an option to try a hospital? Or could you try phoning other private pdocs and asking if they use MAOIs and then you could try augmenting? There are so many pdocs out there barely worth their license and Im sorry the one you tried was a waste of time and money. Any sort of barrier to accessing proper help while youre actually trying to get help (which is hard enough) is extremely frustrating.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by rose45 on July 20, 2019, at 7:43:43

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by Radish on July 19, 2019, at 18:46:37

thanks for answering me, at least, Radish.... Im totallly desperate and suicidal... I tried increasing it, but cannot stand high doses of anything.... makes me feel too terrrible. Cannot see any possible solution.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT rose45

Posted by TH on July 20, 2019, at 9:18:59

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by rose45 on July 20, 2019, at 7:43:43

Maybe now is the time to consider seeking hospitalisation? It's absolutely within their role to manage someone who needs a dramatic medication adjustment and would be unable to cope with it in the community.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by rose45 on July 21, 2019, at 4:37:22

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT rose45, posted by TH on July 20, 2019, at 9:18:59

yes, you are right.... but its not that easy to get into a nhs hospital and ive been warned by nurses that i would be better off at home because the wards are full of people who are really out of it, shouting all night etc... This is the situation in England today. Very scary.And I cant afford a private hospital.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by rose45 on July 21, 2019, at 10:18:16

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by rose45 on July 21, 2019, at 4:37:22

how are you doing on Parnate TH?

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT rose45

Posted by TH on July 21, 2019, at 16:51:48

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by rose45 on July 21, 2019, at 10:18:16

> how are you doing on Parnate TH?

Following the change to crushing the tablets I seemed to experience a week of improvement; it began to build back to its useful effect, but that seems to have dropped away again.

I don't believe crushing the tablets was relevant, and it was probably just the same pattern of waxing and waning effectiveness that I've been trapped in for a few months.

While the worst of the intrapsychic pain is still blunted, the positivity and motivation I felt have mostly left, and now come and go for several days at a time.

I am still very suspicious about the correlation between the change in batch number and the onset of these issues.

I have an appointment with a psychiatrist from the MAOI experts group next week and will likely increase my dose. 40mg is still a relatively low dose, and it is early enough in my treatment for my body to potentially have been slowly adapting to what will eventually be a stable effective dose.

In the meantime, the afternoon fatigue has become more prominent than it ever was before. I now find myself sleeping several hours in the early evening. This is completely abnormal for me; I have never felt the desire, or been able, to sleep during the day. It certainly does help pass the time though.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by rose45 on July 22, 2019, at 4:47:17

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT rose45, posted by TH on July 21, 2019, at 16:51:48

yes that afternoon sleepiness was there with me too, so you have have to have the kind of work/schedule, where you dont allow that to be a problem.

Personally, I dont know how people cope with these high doses. It worked fine for me at 30 mg, when it was working, although naturally my mood did go up and down. I just cannot tolerate over 45 mg, apart from the dreadful constipation, it is just too 'wiring'

The thing I experienced with both maois, was change of personality, ie I became almost too self confident, anxiety disappeared,etc. I became arrogant, less sensitive - especially on nardil. But now the med is not working, I have become the opposite, lacking in self confidence, and very anxious.

Ive been given an appt. with the nhs consultant in one month..... Have given up all hope already. Having to wait 6 months in all, since the meds stopped working..... This is the UK.

Do let us/me know of your developments. I wish you much luck. Parnate did change my life for the 5 years I was on it.... it was a mistake on my part to lower the dose...... but who knows whether it would have pooped out anyway.

Your maoi experts group sounds interesting. If you feel like it please do share with us/me what they say. Are they connected with the group set up by Dr. Gillman?

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by TH on July 22, 2019, at 5:48:02

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by rose45 on July 22, 2019, at 4:47:17

When the medication was initially working at 30mg, I didn't have any real afternoon sleepiness at all. I'm not sure whether it's an effect of the increase to 40mg or from the loss of effectiveness.

Although I have found myself more active and motivated, I have never found it activating. I generally felt more at peace internally, which I would describe as a "grounding" feeling. I would agree to the sense of becoming less sensitive, but for the relief it brought it was well worth it. Ever since it ceased to work, despite maintaining the dose, it has definitely been very sedating.

I am reasonably confident that I would be able to tolerate an increased dose if that is the outcome of the psychiatrist appointment. If it does help, it may indicate the potential for a higher dose to help if you are able to tolerate it.

Have you considered the (possibly temporary) addition of a sedating antidepressant such as amitriptyline to help with riding out the rough period of increasing the dosage? While this particular combination is often claimed to be dangerous, this is incorrect: https://psychotropical.com/overview_maoi_and_tca_interactions/

Am I correct in understanding that you are also taking Mercury Pharma brand Parnate, and that this trouble began in early 2019? Because this would be around the time that my medication also began to fail. I would be very interested in finding out if anyone else had developed similar problems around the same time. I may ask around at various medication forums to see if anyone else using Mercury Parnate has had a similar problem recently.

The International MAOI Expert Group I was referring to is the same one set up by Dr. Gillman.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by rose45 on July 22, 2019, at 15:56:52

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by TH on July 22, 2019, at 5:48:02

For me, the sleepiness was always there..and still is, because Im still taking 40mg even thought it doesnt really work any more.

.i doubt that a uk psychiatrist would add amitryptiline.A regular uk nhs psychiatrist would not take advice from Ken Gillman. They have group discussions amongst themselves. In any case, it doesnt really make sense to take amitryptiline to counter too high a dose of parnate for my constitution.

Hopefully you will get some good advice from this group. Are you meeting them online ? I did write to a couple of people here in the UK who are members of the group, but they are all doing their own research, and not seeing people - so you must have got into their good books somehow.....to get a consultation.

Re. the brand of parnate, unfortunately i dont remember which brand I was taking in January. when I lowered the dosage. My pharmacist is having a lot of trouble getting it these days, and I have to give him more notice than with other meds.... I think so few people order it, its getting harder and harder to acquire. It was definitely a different colour box in January,and it was an earlier expiry date.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by rose45 on July 28, 2019, at 9:40:01

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by rose45 on July 22, 2019, at 15:56:52

TH, I would be very interested in the outcome of your meeting with the new pdoc. Please do share, if you feel comfortable, or share with me privately. Wishing you lots of luck.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT rose45

Posted by TH on July 28, 2019, at 15:55:08

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by rose45 on July 28, 2019, at 9:40:01

I will let you know what happens. The meeting can't come soon enough at this point.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by TH on July 31, 2019, at 20:31:25

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by rose45 on July 28, 2019, at 9:40:01

I met with the psychiatrist yesterday. He was agreeable and the consultation went well. The treatment plan going forwards is more or less what you would expect given my situation. The dosage of Parnate will be increased stepwise until an ideal dose is found, up to 60mg, at which point augmentation with either lithium or nortriptyline would be considered.

In the event that none of this is effective (god forbid), he seems willing to consider other options that are anecdotally effective but generally unpopular with other psychiatrists, such as higher dose Parnate, augmentation with stimulants, or referral to colleagues who have experience working with ketamine.

I will begin increasing the dose of Parnate in a few days.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by rose45 on August 1, 2019, at 13:51:38

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by TH on July 31, 2019, at 20:31:25

thanks for that TH. I do hope it goes well for you. The psychiatrist sounds like a good and broad-thinking person, open to many possibilities.

You may well feel better on a higher dose. I just couldnt tolerate over 4.5.... but we are all made differently.... I doubt the uk nhs wld be open to the more unusual methods of augmenting with stimulants etc...

I have an appointment on Aug 23, so do let me know, if you can by then how things have proceeded. Hopefully just a slightly higher dose may make all the difference.....

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT

Posted by rose45 on August 11, 2019, at 10:18:46

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by rose45 on August 1, 2019, at 13:51:38

my main complaint is rebound anxiety, because I originally took meds - ie nardil because of an anxiety breakdown, and that is what reappears whenever the meds poop out. ie it is my base state, which is rather worrying because it means that I can never be without some kind of anxiety med.

My gp gave me some low dose valium to tide me throught until I see the psychiatrist, but I am now also on 2.5 mg of olanzapine and that is also helping with sleep and anxiety.

I guess we all take meds for different reasons.

 

Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT rose45

Posted by TH on August 11, 2019, at 17:05:44

In reply to Re: HELP PARNATE POOP OUT, posted by rose45 on August 11, 2019, at 10:18:46

> my main complaint is rebound anxiety, because I originally took meds - ie nardil because of an anxiety breakdown, and that is what reappears whenever the meds poop out. ie it is my base state, which is rather worrying because it means that I can never be without some kind of anxiety med.

I must say that anxiety has never been one of my main complaints, although it is there to a degree. Agitation around the inescapability of the boredom and dissatisfaction I feel is really more common. The main symptoms are the loss of motivation and ability to enjoy things. When these symptoms lift, I find that the rest of the symptoms tend to lift too. In regards to anxiety this tends to look like my motivation to do things becoming greater than the anxiety I feel around doing them. Once I gain momentum, the anxiety subsides more and more.

As far as updates on the 50mg Parnate dosage, it has only been about a week now. There may have been a modest improvement, however it has still been unstable so far. It's likely still too early to tell. There has definitely been an increase / return of side effects, which is in some way reassuring, in that at least *something* is happening. One notable difference is that the afternoon fatigue, which would come and go, which first appeared when the Parnate stopped working, has returned and stayed. Every afternoon I find myself need an hour or two of sleep, usually around 3PM.

If no further degree of improvement develops, I will carry on to 60mg.


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