Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1105467

Shown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Am i under the right impression?

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2019, at 7:31:49

Am I right thinking that most people here get very little help from antidepressants? It occurs to me that almost everyone is searching for something helpful here. Of course, people who are stable on ADs don't find their way here. But is anyone here actually stable with 50% or more improvement?

 

Re: Am i under the right impression?

Posted by Christ_empowered on July 28, 2019, at 8:48:32

In reply to Am i under the right impression?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2019, at 7:31:49

i take abilify and prozac. both are helpful, although the abilify does the 'heavy lifting.' when i get anxious, i take a small dose of neurontin.

 

Re: Am i under the right impression?

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2019, at 11:28:00

In reply to Re: Am i under the right impression?, posted by Christ_empowered on July 28, 2019, at 8:48:32

Interesting. Well, maybe it's good for people to know that some are doing much better than before. Sometimes we have to settle with a partial response. At least for now.

 

AD effectiveness: Am i under the right impression?

Posted by mtom on July 28, 2019, at 19:13:38

In reply to Re: Am i under the right impression?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2019, at 11:28:00

Coincidental you posted this because I had been in the process of writing a rather long post about AD effectiveness and the whole monoamine theory - which is increasingly being questioned.

Then I accidentally closed the window before I posted it!!

I had included the following excerpt from a recently published paper: "Both the limited effectivity of existing AD and the scarcity of novel options may stem from a once revolutionary, yetin retrospectexcessive and misguided focus on the monoamine hypothesis for the pathophysiology of depression, which centers on defective neurotransmission of serotonin (5-hydroxytriptamine, 5HT), noradrenaline (NA), and dopamine (DA) in the brain. Indeed, the serendipitous discovery of tricyclic AD drove the reverse engineering of this hypothesis, which in turn has guided much of the development of all AD throughout history.
Nevertheless, the monoamine hypothesis has been heavily contested regarding its validity and the relative importance of its components..."

In any event, you're right that most of the people who visit sites like this are those who are not getting the results they want from their medications. However - I think that is a fairly high proportion as many articles and papers report effects of AD's not really as much higher than placebo than one would hope. And also many articles state they don't work on at least 30% of those who try them (some quote higher numbers).

The paper I quoted from above is titled:
Depression as a Neuroendocrine Disorder: Emerging Neuropsychopharmacological Approaches beyond Monoamines

There is also at least 1 study currently underway to determine the affect of treating depression with a Biologic Medication usually used to treat Rheumatoid Arthritis. Much has been recently written about the hypothesis of Depression being, at least in some cases, an autoimmune or inflammatory disorder.

 

AD effectiveness: Am i under the right impression?

Posted by mtom on July 28, 2019, at 19:16:01

In reply to Re: Am i under the right impression?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2019, at 11:28:00

Coincidental you posted this because I had been in the process of writing a rather long post about AD effectiveness and the whole monoamine theory - which is increasingly being questioned.

Then I accidentally closed the window before I posted it!!

I had included the following excerpt from a recently published paper: "Both the limited effectivity of existing AD and the scarcity of novel options may stem from a once revolutionary, yetin retrospectexcessive and misguided focus on the monoamine hypothesis for the pathophysiology of depression, which centers on defective neurotransmission of serotonin (5-hydroxytriptamine, 5HT), noradrenaline (NA), and dopamine (DA) in the brain. Indeed, the serendipitous discovery of tricyclic AD drove the reverse engineering of this hypothesis, which in turn has guided much of the development of all AD throughout history.
Nevertheless, the monoamine hypothesis has been heavily contested regarding its validity and the relative importance of its components..."

In any event, you're right that most of the people who visit sites like this are those who are not getting the results they want from their medications. However - I think that is a fairly high proportion as many articles and papers report effects of AD's not really as much higher than placebo than one would hope. And also many articles state they don't work on at least 30% of those who try them (some quote higher numbers).

The paper I quoted from above is titled:
Depression as a Neuroendocrine Disorder: Emerging Neuropsychopharmacological Approaches beyond Monoamines

There is also at least 1 study currently underway to determine the affect of treating depression with a Biologic Medication usually used to treat Rheumatoid Arthritis. Much has been recently written about the hypothesis of Depression being, at least in some cases, an autoimmune or inflammatory disorder.

 

Re: AD effectiveness: Am i under the right impression?

Posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2019, at 3:00:55

In reply to AD effectiveness: Am i under the right impression?, posted by mtom on July 28, 2019, at 19:16:01

I think that there are psychoscial factors that are hard to fix biologically.

 

Re: psychosocial vs physical causes Lamdage22

Posted by mtom on July 30, 2019, at 8:24:48

In reply to Re: AD effectiveness: Am i under the right impression?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2019, at 3:00:55

> I think that there are psychoscial factors that are hard to fix biologically.

I agree.

That being said, I think depression is actually a spectrum of diseases & causes. I believe it can be brought on by solely psychosocial factors - as it was with me in first bout of depression years ago.

I also think it can be brought on by biological factors, e.g. autoimmune-inflammatory disorders, celiac (which is one the latter), endocrine disorders, possibly traumatic injuries (e.g. concussions - P-Docs have asked me if I've ever had a concussion, which I have), possibly nutrient factors could contribute to some extent in at least some cases (e.g. diet and/or malabsorption issues), and likely others.

I also think there are likely genetic factors that make some people more susceptible to develop depression from either of the above.

Also I think that depression triggered by biological factors makes one more susceptible to psychosocial factors exacerbating the depression - i.e. if your neurotransmitter/hormones are already out of whack, psychosocial factors become more difficult to deal with.

Even when it is caused by biological factors, I think antidepressants are a bit of a bandaid as I believe disruptions in monoamine neurotransmitters may be secondary effects to another root cause.

These are just opinions and hypotheses, however I've done a lot of reading, including 100's of published research papers. Most don't emphasize the psychosocial factors, but I've read a few that do mention these are harder to treat with medications.

It's all very complex, and the Pharma companies have overly focussed on the monoamine theory because it's all they know, and easier to design drugs that impact these, and too difficult to tease out reasons why these neurotransmitters got out of whack to begin with and then develop drugs to treat what are probably a myriad of root causes. And I don't see how you can design a drug to treat the psychosocial factors when they precipitate or exacerbate the depression?


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