Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1103342

Shown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

neuroleptic dosage

Posted by Christ_empowered on February 22, 2019, at 18:28:55

it seems to usually be higher in psychotic disorders than in any flavor bipolar I or severe depression. why do you think? I mean...high(er) doses can cause and exacerbate "negative symptoms," so it just seems...unfair. :-(


I"d like to slowly lower my own "atypical" intake. the new prescriber person seemed OK with it...as long as I take some anti-seizure drugs. blah. 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other? what do you think would be safer over the long haul...20/abilify or 10-15/abilify and I"m guessing trileptal? is there even a difference?

and...for those of you who are deep in the psych research...what about tardive psychosis? that's one reason I"m willing to consider an anti-seizure drug. lower neuroleptic dose, plus some indication that the anti-seizure drug does...something...to keep the neuroleptic from making things worse. always a good thing.

ok. thanks, y'all. :-)

 

Re: neuroleptic dosage » Christ_empowered

Posted by beckett2 on February 24, 2019, at 18:08:04

In reply to neuroleptic dosage, posted by Christ_empowered on February 22, 2019, at 18:28:55

Hey, I'm certainly not versed in psych research, but intuitively, cutting a long term dosage of an AP sounds good, if you and your shrink closely monitor your health. I haven't heard of tardive psychosis. Are you saying that a anti seizure will have benefits beyond allowing a lower dose of AP?

 

Re: neuroleptic dosage

Posted by Christ_empowered on February 25, 2019, at 10:20:27

In reply to Re: neuroleptic dosage » Christ_empowered, posted by beckett2 on February 24, 2019, at 18:08:04

hi. thanks for your reply.

"tardive psychosis" is what happens when long term neuroleptic treatment makes psychosis more prominent or...in some cases...leaves the person with psychotic symptoms for the 1st time, whereas they were absent before such treatment (example: neuroleptics were once popular for agitated, non psychotic depression...and some of those patients went on to develop psychotic symptoms).

-some- researchers have speculated that using anti-seizure drugs somehow "helps" both prevent and manage tardive psychosis. i vaguely recall reading that animal models showed that abilify (aripiprazole) causes less D2 upregulation than most neuroleptics. That's good....but, of course, that's in animals, and its just using Abilify, by itself. no word yet on what abilify in the context of multi-drug cocktails does to those D2 receptors.

anyway, more to the point, there's also limited data showing that lamictal with neuroleptics does...something, somehow...so there's less D2 upregulation. the idea is: all neuroleptics block D2 receptors. As the brain adapts, the brain becomes -more- sensitive to dopamine, not less. that's just -1- problem associated w/ neuroleptic treatment, btw.

so...then, when if the neuroleptic is reduced or stopped, the sensitized brain gets hit with dopamine, psychosis ensues, then the person is often re-medicated, often at a higher dose of neuroleptic, with this "relapse" offering "proof" that they needed the neruoleptic in the 1st place.

blah. anwyay...again, thanks for your reply. :-)

 

Re: neuroleptic dosage

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 2, 2019, at 9:06:18

In reply to Re: neuroleptic dosage, posted by Christ_empowered on February 25, 2019, at 10:20:27

That sounds really bad. So what to do? I hope it turns out that most of my problems were related to Iron deficiency.

 

Re: neuroleptic dosage » Christ_empowered

Posted by SLS on March 2, 2019, at 16:55:38

In reply to Re: neuroleptic dosage, posted by Christ_empowered on February 25, 2019, at 10:20:27

Hi, C_E.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the information.


- Scott


> "tardive psychosis" is what happens when long term neuroleptic treatment makes psychosis more prominent or...in some cases...leaves the person with psychotic symptoms for the 1st time, whereas they were absent before such treatment (example: neuroleptics were once popular for agitated, non psychotic depression...and some of those patients went on to develop psychotic symptoms).
>
> -some- researchers have speculated that using anti-seizure drugs somehow "helps" both prevent and manage tardive psychosis. i vaguely recall reading that animal models showed that abilify (aripiprazole) causes less D2 upregulation than most neuroleptics. That's good....but, of course, that's in animals, and its just using Abilify, by itself. no word yet on what abilify in the context of multi-drug cocktails does to those D2 receptors.
>
> anyway, more to the point, there's also limited data showing that lamictal with neuroleptics does...something, somehow...so there's less D2 upregulation. the idea is: all neuroleptics block D2 receptors. As the brain adapts, the brain becomes -more- sensitive to dopamine, not less. that's just -1- problem associated w/ neuroleptic treatment, btw.
>
> so...then, when if the neuroleptic is reduced or stopped, the sensitized brain gets hit with dopamine, psychosis ensues, then the person is often re-medicated, often at a higher dose of neuroleptic, with this "relapse" offering "proof" that they needed the neruoleptic in the 1st place.
>
> blah. anwyay...again, thanks for your reply. :-)

 

Re: neuroleptic dosage

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 3, 2019, at 5:26:50

In reply to Re: neuroleptic dosage » Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on March 2, 2019, at 16:55:38

I did. I just felt pressured to withdraw too quickly. But now I have been on 900mg Seroquel for months so I am going 800! Previously i was on 1000mg

 

Re: neuroleptic dosage

Posted by Christ_empowered on March 3, 2019, at 15:47:47

In reply to Re: neuroleptic dosage, posted by Lamdage22 on March 3, 2019, at 5:26:50

im only on 20mgs/abilify, but im prone to depression, so this is about as much as I can tolerate w/o drug-induced depression and, honestly, id probably be in a better, brighter mood on 10-15mgs/daily.

at least seroquel has that antidepressant metabolite, right? plus the relatively low eps and TD. abilify doesn't cause much TD in animal models, but now that everybody and their mama is on Abilify for depression, anxiety, etc., more TD is popping up, and its sometimes harder to treat than the TD from the other tranquilizers.

i read about a sizeable subset of "mental patients," from way back when, who would just keep some Thorazine or whatever handy, and take it when things got rough. another group took a very low dose daily, and extra when things got rough. both groups ended up doing better, better quality of life, than the more heavily medicated groups...

so, its something i more aware of, now...that drawbacks to some psych drugs, over the long haul. neuroleptics can exacerbate 'negative symptoms' and often create a definite 'deficit syndrome...'

and yet, how to deal? some older data indicated that using sufficient doses of benzodiazepines during the prodrome was useful. thing is...

for me and some other people/'patients,' there is something about the neuroleptics, in particular, that offers a distinct benefit over simple sedation. i dont know if its because i sometimes have trouble filtering out incoming stimuli or if its because the neuroleptics help me look outwards, not get sucked into some inner psychodrama during bad periods, but...

blah. on the one hand, i have a "robust repsonse to aripiprazole." on the other hand, I'm really not gung ho about staying tranquilized, at whatever dose, indefinitely...if it is possible to find a better way, that is.

thanks. :-)

 

Re: neuroleptic dosage

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 4, 2019, at 0:36:05

In reply to Re: neuroleptic dosage, posted by Christ_empowered on March 3, 2019, at 15:47:47

Me too Christempowered!

I recommend the website www.survivingantidepressants.org
There is a German spinoff of it which I frequent. I am going 800mg Seroquel from 900mg and previously 1000mg

 

Re: neuroleptic dosage » Christ_empowered

Posted by beckett2 on March 4, 2019, at 12:39:49

In reply to Re: neuroleptic dosage, posted by Christ_empowered on March 3, 2019, at 15:47:47

C_E thanks for the earlier explanation. The way you phrased it made sense to me (a non science person).

Did you mention that lamotrigine was shown to have some positive effect against the negative symptoms neuroleptics sometimes cause? Because I really like lamotrigine as a mood brightener. (It took awhile to take hold.) But maybe that isn't enough mood control for you?

>
> i read about a sizable subset of "mental patients," from way back when, who would just keep some Thorazine or whatever handy.


I believe baseball does or used to do that if I recall correctly.


>
> blah. on the one hand, i have a "robust repsonse to aripiprazole." on the other hand, I'm really not gung ho about staying tranquilized, at whatever dose, indefinitely...if it is possible to find a better way, that is.
>
> thanks. :-)

I'm curious if you feel overly tranquilized on Abilify? (When I took it, I was NOT tranquilized.)


 

Re: neuroleptic dosage

Posted by Christ_empowered on March 4, 2019, at 18:47:31

In reply to Re: neuroleptic dosage » Christ_empowered, posted by beckett2 on March 4, 2019, at 12:39:49

hey, beckett. how are you?

yeah, I think I'm just now making peace with whole "life with severe mental illness" -thing-, you know?

as...I dunno..."Schizoaffective, manic type" individuals go...I"m considered "high functioning," and also (somehow...) "extremely intelligent," so I cannot really complain. The "extremely intelligent" deal kind of takes me by surprise, given how destroyed I was by the (not voluntary!) shock 'treatments,' etc., so...

yeah. As much as I'd like to -not- take a neuroleptic or take less or...blah blah blah...I think the name of the game might be working with a prescriber to select -less- toxic neuroleptics and also keep on the Orthomolecular, to further reduce toxicity and the risk of TD.

I don't feel mega-tranquilized on 20mgs/Abilify, no. I'm glad I"m on Abilify and not, say, risperidone or zyprexa. I don't do well with most neuroleptics, especially the more sedating ones, and I tend to gain weight during times of stress and depression, anyway, so...yeah. Abilify has been a good psych drug, for me.

thanks for your reply, and I"m glad you found my explanation helpful. It was straight "off the top of my head," pretty much how I understand things, too (as a non-science person, also).

:-) thanks.


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