Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1096995

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Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by PeterMartin on May 24, 2018, at 12:21:20

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90 PeterMartin, posted by SLS on May 24, 2018, at 9:49:06

Thanks for the support Scott - what I needed to hear.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by SLS on May 25, 2018, at 12:47:16

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90 PeterMartin, posted by SLS on May 24, 2018, at 9:49:06

> The path to remission in TRD is not usually linear and smooth. It follows an inclined sawtooth pattern. There are ups and downs. However, each peak is hopefully higher than the one that preceded it. The downs become less deep.
>
> Look at the red line:

Oops.

I meant to look at the black line!

http://cdn.iopscience.com/images/0741-3335/53/1/013001/Full/ppcf341546fig02.jpg

Sorry.

> One step at a time. If you truly get stuck, then you can look at augmenting strategies.
>
> Good luck.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by Lamdage22 on May 26, 2018, at 8:13:18

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by SLS on May 25, 2018, at 12:47:16

And the Metformin helps weight issues?

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by PeterMartin on May 26, 2018, at 13:40:31

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by Lamdage22 on May 26, 2018, at 8:13:18

> And the Metformin helps weight issues?

I think it's slowed the gain but I have still gone from 216.9 (Jan 25) to 221 (May 25). And I'm on the max dose for about 3weeks now. So unfortunately it's not perfect nor allowing for wt loss which I'd hoped. They say it can take months to work and I still question the effectiveness of some generics. I've been taking TEVA ER for the past few weeks. If I go up in it more I may go back to Sun ER or perhaps one of the immediate brands.

Without it though I think I'd have had much worse carb craving, constipation, and gain..so I'm happy for it I just hope it's not part of the mood prob and maybe starts to help bit more. What I've gained could be water weight too as urinary retention is extremely bad at the moment. I just picked up some stinging nettle to try to help that.

Mood today isn't great but I'm better than a few hrs ago. Maybe I'll increase my lamictal again to 150. Just a little worried that will add to urinary retention, maybe blunt Nardil, and perhaps cause memory issues again. (dropped words when typing / etc)

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by Lamdage22 on May 29, 2018, at 2:28:13

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by PeterMartin on May 26, 2018, at 13:40:31

the urinary retention should pass!

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by PeterMartin on June 3, 2018, at 9:23:06

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by Lamdage22 on May 29, 2018, at 2:28:13

Urinary retention is really bad right now. Just about a month on 90. 4+ months total. Very up and down / not happy.

Got a B12 shot yesterday and that seems to have ruined a lot of progress. Big time anxiety/depr ssion yesterday evening/night. Had to go to bed early. GF was a bit miffed about it.

Feel horrible this morning again. I've had issues w vitamins before but heard B12 is essential if taking metformin. Didn't expect this bad of a reaction.

Weight is creeping up now too. 223ish from 216 at the start.

Frustrated.

Lots of days are "good" but I read so many success stories on this stuff I don't get it. Hasn't happened here.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by Lamdage22 on June 3, 2018, at 12:57:24

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by PeterMartin on June 3, 2018, at 9:23:06

I didnt know that about Metformin. But i do take B12 anyway

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90 PeterMartin

Posted by SLS on June 3, 2018, at 13:08:04

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by PeterMartin on June 3, 2018, at 9:23:06

Have you researched bethanechol (Urecholine) for urinary retention?


- Scott

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by PeterMartin on June 5, 2018, at 12:59:13

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90 PeterMartin, posted by SLS on June 3, 2018, at 13:08:04

> Have you researched bethanechol (Urecholine) for urinary retention?
>
>
> - Scott

I've heard of it and almost called my doctor yesterday to ask but my ability to pee has come back a bit. I've been taking dandelion and nettle which might be helping.

Right now though I'm really beside myself as I was doing pretty ok on Saturday until I foolishly decided to get a b12 shot. After nearly 2 days straight. I'm slowly getting better but I don't feel the Nardil doing much aside from the little kick I get after taking a 2pill dose.

I really need to feel like there is relief in site. I have no idea why B12 threw everything off the way it did. I've had them before and never had this bad of a reaction. Metformin decreases b12 so you're supposed to supplement it if it gets low so I figured it was a good move....

I'm very adhedonic and unmotivated. All I'm really feeling from the Nardil at the moment is pretty strong hypotension on standing. Really hope it surprises me. Tomorrow is exacxtly one month on 90mg (over 4 months total).

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by rose45 on June 8, 2018, at 11:34:26

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90 PeterMartin, posted by SLS on June 3, 2018, at 13:08:04

For what it is worth, when I was in the Maudsley hospital in London, they would not let me take any B vitamins with the Nardil.... they seemed to think there was some contra indication. does anyone else know about this?

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by PeterMartin on June 13, 2018, at 20:50:45

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by rose45 on June 8, 2018, at 11:34:26

I think the B12 shot definitely did throw me off for about a week. I also find the recommended b6 supplement (even miniscule 5mg doseages) to have negative effects on my mood. Typical for me though.

I think Nardil finally kicked in after about 6weeks on 90 (after months on 60/75). Yesterday was a very positive day for me. Today a bit less so but I'm still bouncing between the max dose of Metformin and slightly less. I think it dips my mood but if from what I read and experience on lower dosages the sides go away when your body adjusts. Whther or not it can keep Nardil weight neutral is a different question. Been steady last couple weeks but up from 216 to 223 since I started Nardil in late Jan. That's w daily 20min exercise bike. We'll see.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by PeterMartin on July 1, 2018, at 1:46:17

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by PeterMartin on June 13, 2018, at 20:50:45

Just an update I am on Zonegran now. Been on 100mg for the past 6days. I'll go up to 200 after 2 weeks. I think it's helping my moods over all and no bad side effects to report. My weight did drop the first couple of days but now seems to be ticking back. 100 in anlow dose though. Studies suggest 400 for signicant weight loss. I'll see how it goes.

I've dialed back the met to 1500 which seems to have helped a bit w my moods over all as well.

Doing pretty well but can't wait to titrated up in the zonegran. My daily scale check really affects my mood for the day.

Jumped from 224 to 229 day before starting Zonegran. Then back to 221..now 224ish. 230 is the heaviest I've ever been and I've set that as my "get off Nardil line"..... fighting hard but very optimistic about zonegran so far. The fact it may help stability is amazing. I'll update though....still very early.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by Tfeld on July 8, 2018, at 8:21:10

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by PeterMartin on July 1, 2018, at 1:46:17

> Just an update I am on Zonegran now. Been on 100mg for the past 6days. I'll go up to 200 after 2 weeks. I think it's helping my moods over all and no bad side effects to report. My weight did drop the first couple of days but now seems to be ticking back. 100 in anlow dose though. Studies suggest 400 for signicant weight loss. I'll see how it goes.
>
> I've dialed back the met to 1500 which seems to have helped a bit w my moods over all as well.
>
> Doing pretty well but can't wait to titrated up in the zonegran. My daily scale check really affects my mood for the day.
>
> Jumped from 224 to 229 day before starting Zonegran. Then back to 221..now 224ish. 230 is the heaviest I've ever been and I've set that as my "get off Nardil line"..... fighting hard but very optimistic about zonegran so far. The fact it may help stability is amazing. I'll update though....still very early.

Hey Peter,

Been following the board (used to participate years back) and your recent posts since the atrocious Marplan shortage. I too was a Marplan user for 8 years, most of which at 40mg, and began to have a substantial response after adjusting adjunctive meds and bumping Marplan up to 90mg with a fantastic NYC doctor whom I found on Dr. Bob's very own psychopharm tips when I was once-again desperate in 2016 to find a doc willing to manage the MAOI/ TCA (desipramine)/ stimulant (Desoxyn) combo and who had the balls to push the envelope until I got better... and I did.

...then the Marplan shortage hit. At first briefly, when I hopped back on Parnate for the 4th time and hated its guts once again. Validus Pharma did all they could searching for bottles and sent me all they had as they promised to restart production, but as you know, that never came to fruition.

I have comorbid subst abuse issues, and around the same time I was running out of my last Marplan bottle was ripped off a train and was illegally (met no mental health hygiene law criteria or dx for mania -- Columbia Presbyterian and local hospitals usually shut the door on me) but nonetheless involuntarily hospitalized in a crapshoot in Queens, but it did break the cycle of addiction and I have enjoyed 16 days of relative freedom from that nasty grip since.

I made a stat appointment this past Tuesday and we ditched our former plan to initiate venlafaxine (one of the few I never went for out of 65 attempted meds, multiple trials including TMS (failed and/ or mania) and street ketamine (WORKS)) and titrate to a very high dosage (~650mg) in favor of giving Nardil a second try.

This is week 1 and I seem to be responding so far at a low dosage (30mg) + my other meds. I am experiencing considerably more tolerability issues (mainly sleepiness and brain fog) compared to the miraculously clean Marplan, but am also experiencing pronounced therapeutic benefits to my anxiety and avoidance that I still suffered from on isocarboxazid.

I only go by my doctor's scale which means I clock in only once a week, which I believe prevents harping on often anomalous day-to-day changes that are an inaccurate reflection of long-term changes. A suggestion -- what about checking once a week as well? I find it spares my self-esteem and allows me to focus more on dietary efforts without the barrage of daily numerical input to my self-critical thought processes -- after all, the prefrontal cortex can only hold so much info at once (be it executing motivational efforts or ruminative schemata) before it begins to work less efficiently towards achievement of goals. I am actually finding that, along with the hospital routine still lingering, the phenelzine seems to be helping my appetite and sticking to not eating between meals.

Speaking of the PFC, next week the doc and I plan to focus on patching up what's left of my noggin after nearly a year of neurotoxic subst use and the hospital stripping me of most meds including ADHD Tx -- from 80mg Desoxyn + 75mg desipramine (reevaluating its utility and staying off for now) to discharged on 5mg methylphenidate. Ugh.

Currently taking:

phenelzine 30mg (formerly ISO 90mg; no desipramine)
Desoxyn 20mg (formerly 80mg)
pramipexole IR 1.25mg
clonazepam 4mg
aripiprazole 7.5mg
lithium carb 300mg
lamotrigine 25mg

and no more Deplin 7.5mg -- can no longer afford since 26 now and dropped from parents' PPO. I also take Synthroid 50mcg from past lithium complications and Truvada for PrEP.

But enough of me -- your persistence and patience has been an inspiration to me and has encouraged me not to give up on MAOIs, which I truly need. Marplan users are indeed few and far between but I am sure there are numerous nonmembers who have been following along for guidance in the aftermath of a company's once compassionate return of this uniquely useful and tolerable drug to the market to an utterly stubborn cling to their soon-expiring patent in lieu of releasing the damn proprietary crap so a different competent company can restore us to sanity -- Validus deserves a huge slap on the wrist by the FDA, but unfortunately, especially as MAOI users, that's just not how this country works.

Anyway, keep at it and NEVER give up. My pdoc promised me early on he would never stop trying for me, and I promised him the same. I'd suggest looking into an augmentation strategy before ditching Nardil and taking it slow -- many online are keen on jumping to 90mg as quickly as possible. Given my low-dosage response so far, and speaking as a recovering addict, tolerance is WAY overrated and can destroy what simply requires patience and creativity.

Lastly, my pdoc looked into things before ditching Marplan and found an American source who can import ISO from the UK. At my dosage it would require ~$1800/mo (although many insurances will cover importation, I simply doubt my Medicaid would). If you've got the income or insurance allowance and would like more info on that, send me a message and I'll try to find the info for you.

Good luck with Zonegran and congratulations on its contribution to your stability.

Tfeld

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by PeterMartin on July 17, 2018, at 16:36:55

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by Tfeld on July 8, 2018, at 8:21:10

Tfed,

Thanks for the in depth message and I'm sorry it took me so long to see it/reply. It means a lot to know that speaking out loud might help some others out there.

The Zonegran trial didn't work. It started making me depressed and completely uninterested in things I like. I think I'm a bit lucky I decided to stop it before getting on a long run with it. Today is only my 3rd day off and it has an extremely long 60hr half life. Definitely wasn't feeling anything but sad this morning but I think I'm finally coming around a bit. In the 3weeks (200mg) I made it through it didn't lower the scale at all anyway.

Nardil has an odd medicine for me. Maybe like you suggest I'm taking too much. My BP is really low like 89/59 most times. I have bad urinary retention too and I've been at 90 for months now. Perhaps I should try to step back to 75 at some point.....I just need to hold on that until the Zonegran is gone.

Once Marplan is back (Quartet 4 2018 is the current listing on the FDA site) I'm pretty sure I'll switch right back over. This year has been a complete rollercoaster. It's been difficult. I definitely couldn't afford the overseas solution you found but luckily I think I'll be eligible for the assistance program when it's available again by Validus. Thatll he my only hope of getting it again in the US now...

Hope you are doing great and sorry for any typos/rembles - typing on my phone but wanted to reply.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by KathrynLex on August 9, 2018, at 0:58:38

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by PeterMartin on July 17, 2018, at 16:36:55

Hi all,

I'm so relieved to see a conversation about Nardil. Combing through all the previous conversations (going back years!) has been incredibly informative, but I'd love to actually talk to folks currently taking Nardil.

Right now, I am quitting Lexapro (one day down, 13 to go!) and then I'll start on Nardil to help treat my depression and anxiety.

I'm nervous about the weight gain and side effects. Is there anyone here who hasn't experienced weight gain (or managed to lose the weight), and what advice to do you have to help mitigate or cope with side effects? Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this and responds!

K

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by Lamdage22 on August 9, 2018, at 8:06:33

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by KathrynLex on August 9, 2018, at 0:58:38

Hi,

i take Metformin against weight gain and its pretty effective. However: I need to maintain blood sugar very stable (ie: eat regularly) otherwise i will get anxiety. The second however: You need healthy kidneys and liver and you need to confirm that they are healthy every couple of weeks. It does not work for everyone but if it works, its pretty awesome. Many people i spoke to have lost considerable weight on Metformin.

When i was on Nardil, i could cope though. I was not technically overweight. Just well nourished. I have much more weight gain because of the Antipsychotics, however now i have the Metformin antidote.

> I'm nervous about the weight gain and side effects. Is there anyone here who hasn't experienced weight gain (or managed to lose the weight), and what advice to do you have to help mitigate or cope with side effects? Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this and responds!

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by Lamdage22 on August 9, 2018, at 8:11:06

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by Lamdage22 on August 9, 2018, at 8:06:33

Metformin even gives me more vascularity of muscles. It makes the glucose go to your muscles, not fat cells. It can lower testosterone however i still have above average testosterone for my age. If your kidneys and liver are healthy, you are fine. If not you should recognize it via the regular bloodwork and then react. If you dont do this, you may die. But hey, you may die in a car accident and we still drive, so...

It is very rare.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by Tfeld on August 9, 2018, at 9:32:09

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by KathrynLex on August 9, 2018, at 0:58:38

> Hi all,
>
> I'm so relieved to see a conversation about Nardil. Combing through all the previous conversations (going back years!) has been incredibly informative, but I'd love to actually talk to folks currently taking Nardil.
>
> Right now, I am quitting Lexapro (one day down, 13 to go!) and then I'll start on Nardil to help treat my depression and anxiety.
>
> I'm nervous about the weight gain and side effects. Is there anyone here who hasn't experienced weight gain (or managed to lose the weight), and what advice to do you have to help mitigate or cope with side effects? Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this and responds!
>
> K

Hi Kathryn,

I am doing quite well on 37.5mg Nardil since having switched from Marplan (90mg; Marplan is currently having severe manufacturing issues and is out of production for now), and was also able to drop Deplin and desipramine 75mg (which I just retried at 12.5mg and realized how much I hate it!).

I've actually lost about 12lbs, which is very strange given Nardil's propensity for weight gain and even more so that around the same time starting Nardil I'd just detoxed off crystal meth (47 days ago) as well -- I "should" be a whale by now! I have also stopped having outrageous carb cravings since the changes and have really cut down on how much I eat, not eating btwn meals, etc... but also my doc and I agree that perhaps the weight loss could reflect the vast improvement in illness -- my anxiety and bipolar depression (finally stable), level of stress, etc.

I would suggest starting slow, since I've turned out to respond to this very low dosage (many are hasty to jump up high to 90mg), but I do also take other meds that augment it. Nonetheless, 45mg was too much for me. I got more depressed/ anxious, not to mention via Nardil's inhibition of CYP3A4 my Klonopin and Abilify levels went up problematically and dosage reduction rendered them ineffective -- it just was too much. Dropped back to 30mg, which was too little (Nardil has exponential pharmacokinetics) -- 37.5mg seems to be my "sweet spot."!My only side effects are mild sedation and somewhat decreased libido.

My current regimen (best so far):

Nardil 37.5mg
pramipexole 1.25mg
Desoxyn 60mg
Klonopin 4mg
Abilify 6mg
lamotrigine 25mg
lithium carbonate ER 300mg (which we plan to decr or eliminate)

And lots of 12-step meetings!!

Best of luck to you with your washout and trying Nardil! It's been a total lifesaver for me and was undiagnosed with 3 anxiety disorders within 2 weeks! I'm remission from PTSD, social anxiety, and Panic Disorder (just mild-moderate GAD now, avoidant personality quickly improving; severe-but-treated ADHD, and just for today stable Bipolar I). Cheers!

Tom

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by KathrynLex on August 9, 2018, at 10:49:05

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by Lamdage22 on August 9, 2018, at 8:06:33

I appreciate that you shared your experience with me, and I'll look into Metformin. Like you, I experienced a lot of weight gain on antipsychotics (between that and the intense fatigue, I decided they're not the right medication for me). Thanks again for your advice.

> Hi,
>
> i take Metformin against weight gain and its pretty effective. However: I need to maintain blood sugar very stable (ie: eat regularly) otherwise i will get anxiety. The second however: You need healthy kidneys and liver and you need to confirm that they are healthy every couple of weeks. It does not work for everyone but if it works, its pretty awesome. Many people i spoke to have lost considerable weight on Metformin.
>
> When i was on Nardil, i could cope though. I was not technically overweight. Just well nourished. I have much more weight gain because of the Antipsychotics, however now i have the Metformin antidote.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90 PeterMartin

Posted by Tfeld on August 9, 2018, at 11:39:22

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by PeterMartin on July 17, 2018, at 16:36:55

> Tfeld,
>
> Thanks for the in depth message and I'm sorry it took me so long to see it/reply. It means a lot to know that speaking out loud might help some others out there.
>
> The Zonegran trial didn't work. It started making me depressed and completely uninterested in things I like. I think I'm a bit lucky I decided to stop it before getting on a long run with it. Today is only my 3rd day off and it has an extremely long 60hr half life. Definitely wasn't feeling anything but sad this morning but I think I'm finally coming around a bit. In the 3weeks (200mg) I made it through it didn't lower the scale at all anyway.
>
> Nardil has an odd medicine for me. Maybe like you suggest I'm taking too much. My BP is really low like 89/59 most times. I have bad urinary retention too and I've been at 90 for months now. Perhaps I should try to step back to 75 at some point.....I just need to hold on that until the Zonegran is gone.
>
> Once Marplan is back (Quartet 4 2018 is the current listing on the FDA site) I'm pretty sure I'll switch right back over. This year has been a complete rollercoaster. It's been difficult. I definitely couldn't afford the overseas solution you found but luckily I think I'll be eligible for the assistance program when it's available again by Validus. Thatll he my only hope of getting it again in the US now...
>
> Hope you are doing great and sorry for any typos/rembles - typing on my phone but wanted to reply.

Hey Peter,

Thanks for your reply and my apologies for my late response -- been very active in my new life! (See my post above.) But I do feel responsible to give back to others who so freely share their experiences on here -- thanks for that too.

How have you been doing with the Nardil, other meds, and overall? Have you found a dosage regimen that works for you?

Nardil indeed is a tricky med, especially with its nonlinear pharmacokinetics (inhibits its own metabolism via MAO and CYP3A4). I sometimes miss the good-ol' Marplan and the ability to keep upping to see more results linearly without adversity. But I'm grateful to have found my "sweet spot" with Nardil (37.5mg; maybe try an intermediate dose -- half a pill can make a huge diff. bc of the nonlinear pK), and even more so that it's low and to be on considerably less antidepressant (vs. 90mg Marplan, the desipramine -- my new enemy -- etc).

While Nardil's working better for my psychopathology, I loved the "feeling" of Marplan, but I'm living for something entirely different these days. I'm no longer chasing drug-induced (including psych meds) "feelings" of well-being but the simplest, lowest-effective dosage regimen w/ meds that allows me to be of optimal *functioning* so I can experience the true joys of life. My doctor was reacted very pleasantly to this and my belief that it's only through *functioning* in life's domains can one experience its true beauty. A lot of this is influenced by my addiction recovery and desire for emotional sobriety as well as abstinence from street drugs, but I think it's highly applicable to pharmacotherapy in general, esp. TRD where we're constantly chasing relief.

Sometimes we indeed do need some numbing up... but at a certain point it becomes detrimental, I believe. To that effect my doc has even agreed to decr. or d/c my lithium (300mg --> 150 --maybe--> 0mg) as it prevents me from feelings excitement.

Excited to hear back from you on your progress. Progress not perfection!

Best,
Tom aka T-Feld

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90 Tfeld

Posted by KathrynLex on August 9, 2018, at 14:18:38

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by Tfeld on August 9, 2018, at 9:32:09

Hi Tom

I thought I responded to you earlier today, but it looks like my post didn't go through. Probably user error!

Thank you so much for your feedback about Nardil. I like your idea of starting out with a low dose, especially because I'm ridiculously sensitive to meds. I'll be sure to bring it up with my pdoc.

I really appreciate hearing your success story. It sounds like you've been able to overcome a lot of obstacles, and I admire how hard you're working to get well. Looks like it's really paying off! I hope you continue to have lots of success with your current combination of meds, and thank you again!

K

> Hi Kathryn,
>
> I am doing quite well on 37.5mg Nardil since having switched from Marplan (90mg; Marplan is currently having severe manufacturing issues and is out of production for now), and was also able to drop Deplin and desipramine 75mg (which I just retried at 12.5mg and realized how much I hate it!).
>
> I've actually lost about 12lbs, which is very strange given Nardil's propensity for weight gain and even more so that around the same time starting Nardil I'd just detoxed off crystal meth (47 days ago) as well -- I "should" be a whale by now! I have also stopped having outrageous carb cravings since the changes and have really cut down on how much I eat, not eating btwn meals, etc... but also my doc and I agree that perhaps the weight loss could reflect the vast improvement in illness -- my anxiety and bipolar depression (finally stable), level of stress, etc.
>
> I would suggest starting slow, since I've turned out to respond to this very low dosage (many are hasty to jump up high to 90mg), but I do also take other meds that augment it. Nonetheless, 45mg was too much for me. I got more depressed/ anxious, not to mention via Nardil's inhibition of CYP3A4 my Klonopin and Abilify levels went up problematically and dosage reduction rendered them ineffective -- it just was too much. Dropped back to 30mg, which was too little (Nardil has exponential pharmacokinetics) -- 37.5mg seems to be my "sweet spot."!My only side effects are mild sedation and somewhat decreased libido.
>
> My current regimen (best so far):
>
> Nardil 37.5mg
> pramipexole 1.25mg
> Desoxyn 60mg
> Klonopin 4mg
> Abilify 6mg
> lamotrigine 25mg
> lithium carbonate ER 300mg (which we plan to decr or eliminate)
>
> And lots of 12-step meetings!!
>
> Best of luck to you with your washout and trying Nardil! It's been a total lifesaver for me and was undiagnosed with 3 anxiety disorders within 2 weeks! I'm remission from PTSD, social anxiety, and Panic Disorder (just mild-moderate GAD now, avoidant personality quickly improving; severe-but-treated ADHD, and just for today stable Bipolar I). Cheers!
>
> Tom
>

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by Astrid on September 20, 2018, at 22:28:09

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by KathrynLex on August 9, 2018, at 0:58:38

Hey Katherine,

It takes about 6-7 weeks for Nardil to kick in. This is normal. Trust me, you'll know when it kicks in. I'd HIGHLY advise not going up to 90 before this time. In fact, I was "only" taking 45mg and boy was I in for the *ss-kicking of my life when the side effects kicked in (they didn't fully actualize until a few weeks after the effects kicked in). I definitely felt the effects at 45mg, in fact I was high like a kite for the first few weeks. I'm really glad I did it this way because it gave me more room to "dose up" in the future, and the side effects were already difficult enough at a lower dose.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3)

Posted by MightyKondrian on September 26, 2018, at 10:18:03

In reply to Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3), posted by PeterMartin on February 16, 2018, at 7:54:22

Careful. For me (and others) I found that the side effects (if any) will start at the same time its beneficial effects begin. Sloow down and try to stick at 45 for a couple more weeks before thinking about 60. If you rush you may regret as the side effects come rolling in.
Just some advice from personal accounts.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90

Posted by atypical on October 2, 2018, at 6:54:25

In reply to Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) - up to 90, posted by Astrid on September 20, 2018, at 22:28:09

Ditto!


> Hey Katherine,
>
> It takes about 6-7 weeks for Nardil to kick in. This is normal. Trust me, you'll know when it kicks in. I'd HIGHLY advise not going up to 90 before this time. In fact, I was "only" taking 45mg and boy was I in for the *ss-kicking of my life when the side effects kicked in (they didn't fully actualize until a few weeks after the effects kicked in). I definitely felt the effects at 45mg, in fact I was high like a kite for the first few weeks. I'm really glad I did it this way because it gave me more room to "dose up" in the future, and the side effects were already difficult enough at a lower dose.

 

Re: Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3) PeterMartin

Posted by MightyKondrian on October 5, 2018, at 15:54:03

In reply to Hoping Nardil kicks in at 60 (wk3), posted by PeterMartin on February 16, 2018, at 7:54:22

Hi. I been on MAOIs for a long time (inc now with Nardil, Marplan and a short trial with moclobemide (dont bother, crap on its own)). Want any inside help? Turn your babblemail on and ask me any related questions.

MK


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