Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1097121

Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?

Posted by farshad on March 2, 2018, at 14:11:45

Is wellbutrin good at increasing Norepinephrine? If no what are some good drugs that increase Norepinephrine? Is the only way of increasing Norepinephrine to inhibits its transporter (NET)? no other ways?

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?

Posted by linkadge on March 2, 2018, at 17:43:07

In reply to What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?, posted by farshad on March 2, 2018, at 14:11:45

You can take what's called an alpha-2 antagonist. This blocks a certain norepinephrine receptor which inhibits the release of norepinephrine.

Mirtazapine is an alpha-2 antagonist, and increases norepinephrine release. Yohimbine and buspirone also have effects on alpha-2.

The only problem with increasing norepinephrine is that you can mess with blood pressure, pulse and other cardiac parameters.

Linkadge

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?

Posted by TriedEveryMedication on March 3, 2018, at 0:11:37

In reply to What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?, posted by farshad on March 2, 2018, at 14:11:45

Desipramine has one of the highest binding affinities to NET (lower the number, the more it binds and thus inhibits).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricyclic_antidepressant#Binding_profiles

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 3, 2018, at 0:53:30

In reply to Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?, posted by TriedEveryMedication on March 3, 2018, at 0:11:37


1.reboxetine is used in depression, but it can also help attention, with inhibiting reuptake

2. levo-amphetamine - opposite of d-amphetamine, it's good for keeping alert, it doenst really have much on dopamine at all, also an older weight loss med called Mazindol increases norepinephrine alot, both of them are weak on dopamine, less euphoria

3. strattera is good but i've heard some good and not so good stories from it, it is good for attention and keeping alert, it does not effect dopamine so its mainly on attention levels

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser? linkadge

Posted by farshad on March 3, 2018, at 4:04:21

In reply to Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?, posted by linkadge on March 2, 2018, at 17:43:07

> You can take what's called an alpha-2 antagonist. This blocks a certain norepinephrine receptor which inhibits the release of norepinephrine.
>
> Mirtazapine is an alpha-2 antagonist, and increases norepinephrine release. Yohimbine and buspirone also have effects on alpha-2.
>
> The only problem with increasing norepinephrine is that you can mess with blood pressure, pulse and other cardiac parameters.
>
> Linkadge

doesent wellbutrin have any effect on alpha-2? or am i thinking of the niconitic receptors

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser? farshad

Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2018, at 7:00:37

In reply to Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser? linkadge, posted by farshad on March 3, 2018, at 4:04:21

Yeah, Wellbutrin is (I believe) a nicotinergic receptor antagonist. It doesn't affect alpha-2.

Wellbutrin is a weak-moderate norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. However, blocking the nicotine receptors actually lowers catecholamine (norepinephrine / dopamine) release.

Linkadge

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser? linkadge

Posted by farshad on March 3, 2018, at 9:40:53

In reply to Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser? farshad, posted by linkadge on March 3, 2018, at 7:00:37

> Yeah, Wellbutrin is (I believe) a nicotinergic receptor antagonist. It doesn't affect alpha-2.
>
> Wellbutrin is a weak-moderate norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. However, blocking the nicotine receptors actually lowers catecholamine (norepinephrine / dopamine) release.
>
> Linkadge

what u mean wellbutrin is weak on norepinephrine? I thought it was strong but Weak on dopamine inhibition?

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?

Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2018, at 11:59:25

In reply to Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser? linkadge, posted by farshad on March 3, 2018, at 9:40:53

You can look at the Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion

There is a table that shows the relative affinity.

It seems to suggest that the NRI action is about 1/3 of the DRI action.

Linkadge

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser? linkadge

Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 3, 2018, at 15:49:43

In reply to Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser? farshad, posted by linkadge on March 3, 2018, at 7:00:37

Hi Link,

>Wellbutrin is (I believe) a...

That just about sums up the pharmacology of Wellbutrin! No one ever seemed quite sure what it does.

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?

Posted by SLS on March 4, 2018, at 1:07:59

In reply to Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser? linkadge, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 3, 2018, at 15:49:43

> Hi Link,
>
> >Wellbutrin is (I believe) a...
>
> That just about sums up the pharmacology of Wellbutrin! No one ever seemed quite sure what it does.

Yup.

Wellbutrin made me feel quite a bit worse - mostly dysphoric. On the other hand, nomifensine, a potent DNRI, made me feel better. Why?

Wellbutrin increases the levels of nitric oxide via enzyme inhibition. There is some evidence that this action might contribute to the drug's antidepressant actions. A long time ago, the position held by a few researchers was that, although the exact mechanisms were not obvious or well understood, Wellbutrin ultimately increased noradrenergic (NE) activity. The degree to which Wellbutrin acts as a DNRI is rather small. Some people regard its direct effects on catecholamines to be negligible and not contributory to its therapeutic effect. I guess this begs the question, exactly how would one know what is the amount of anything that can be neglected.


- Scott

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?

Posted by Tony P on March 28, 2018, at 1:46:24

In reply to Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?, posted by SLS on March 4, 2018, at 1:07:59

As the Wikipedia article describes, bupropion (Wellbutrin) is a DNRI, but over time the principal metabolite, hydroxybupropion, which has a longer half-life, builds up to 16-20 times the concentration of bupropion itself. Unfortunately (for us anhedonics anyway), hydroxybupropion is ONLY an NE agonist.

This accounts for my experience 2 years ago when I started bupropion (added to Lexapro). For about two weeks, on only 37.5 mg/day, I was a new man, outgoing, depression lifted, doing chores that I had neglected for years. Then I lost the magic, and dosage increases didn't seem to help. I've tried a 10 day holiday from the bupropion, but that doesn't seem to be long enough to reset whatever-it-is, and at 10 days I can feel the depression closing in (& my housemates notice too).

So, to return to the question, in my experience bupropion is a powerful NE increaser. I'm very sensitive to it, though; some years back I was on the customary 300 mg/day, and had to take benzos, zopiclone and other remedies such as Kava & muscle relaxants to tolerate it -- and my family still thought I had gone mad!

Much better, IMO, for an NE boost is Cymbalta. I found it both effective and very low on side effects. I have read that it gives 5x the NE boost that Effexor does (Effexor drives me up the wall with anxiety; YMMV). It seems to have got a very bad press; the BC govt. drug plan does not support it. Maybe it only works well for a subset of people, and does poorly on the averages.

 

Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?

Posted by SLS on March 28, 2018, at 7:29:49

In reply to Re: What is a good Norepinephrine increaser?, posted by Tony P on March 28, 2018, at 1:46:24

> As the Wikipedia article describes, bupropion (Wellbutrin) is a DNRI, but over time the principal metabolite, hydroxybupropion, which has a longer half-life, builds up to 16-20 times the concentration of bupropion itself. Unfortunately (for us anhedonics anyway), hydroxybupropion is ONLY an NE agonist.
>
> This accounts for my experience 2 years ago when I started bupropion (added to Lexapro). For about two weeks, on only 37.5 mg/day, I was a new man, outgoing, depression lifted, doing chores that I had neglected for years. Then I lost the magic, and dosage increases didn't seem to help. I've tried a 10 day holiday from the bupropion, but that doesn't seem to be long enough to reset whatever-it-is, and at 10 days I can feel the depression closing in (& my housemates notice too).
>
> So, to return to the question, in my experience bupropion is a powerful NE increaser. I'm very sensitive to it, though; some years back I was on the customary 300 mg/day, and had to take benzos, zopiclone and other remedies such as Kava & muscle relaxants to tolerate it -- and my family still thought I had gone mad!
>
> Much better, IMO, for an NE boost is Cymbalta. I found it both effective and very low on side effects. I have read that it gives 5x the NE boost that Effexor does (Effexor drives me up the wall with anxiety; YMMV). It seems to have got a very bad press; the BC govt. drug plan does not support it. Maybe it only works well for a subset of people, and does poorly on the averages.

What is Robaxin?

Perhaps you can try swapping Wellbutrin for nortriptyline. From what I can see, it is less anxiogenic and agitating than Wellbutrin is for most people. Of course, there are exceptions. I glean a partial response using a combination of nortriptyline and Effexor. Wellbutrin makes me feel moderately more depressed. I get no stimulating or anxiogenic effects from it. As far as the mechanism of action of hydroxybupropion is concerned, where can I find more information on it? With bupropion, the mechanism isn't really known, despite claims to the contrary. It really isn't much of a reuptake inhibitor. I think scientists are still studying this drug to come up with an answer.

Are there any NE reuptake inhibitors that you have tried in the past?


- Scott


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