Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1096228

Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by MightyKondrian on December 6, 2017, at 10:56:49

We all know the forbidden food list for MAOIs is very out of date. I've eaten some cheeses with both Nardil & Marplan. Never had a dangerous interaction with it.
I've never eaten cheddar or aged & 'smelly' cheeses like blue cheese or Stilton.
Whilst on Marplan I could eat Pizza cheese, a hole pizza!
I've just eaten a small amount of feta in a salad. About 6 x 1 inch cubes. Fine (on Nardil now, 120mg).
I went right up to 150mg with Marplan and hardly any reactions. Just a few 'mild' interactions nothing major. These minor interactions are unmistakable. Sudden rush of NA/NE. Tingles on the head, soon turning into a mild headache but soon gone. Feel better standing up, but maybe thats coz i know that sitting increases BP & standing lowers it. Of course I dont 'try' to get these effects lol.
Is soy the same as soya? I have soya milk every day. Lots of dairy yogurt and the occasional soft or cottage cheeses. No problemo!
One bad reaction with organ meat. Fine when opened. But just 24hrs in the fridge and, well, I got a taxi the the A&E immediately. Horrible experience.

Whats other peoples thoughts and experiences with eating so-called forbidden foods??

MightyKondrian

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by MightyKondrian on December 6, 2017, at 10:58:09

In reply to MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by MightyKondrian on December 6, 2017, at 10:56:49

Found this old post
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20031225/msgs/293560.html

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by MightyKondrian on December 6, 2017, at 11:00:26

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by MightyKondrian on December 6, 2017, at 10:58:09

And then I find this huge list...
https://fdnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Tyraminelistpdf0916.pdf

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 6, 2017, at 21:35:57

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by MightyKondrian on December 6, 2017, at 11:00:26

i do know a big no no, is aged cheeze - it's a delicacy some people love it, but do not eat it while on an MAOI, big no no......i don't have the completel list, but mainly all these tyramine full foods should be x'd off list,

here is a list i found on google real quick:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/expert-answers/maois/faq-20058035

https://erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info2.shtml

i've never been on any of the MAO's but be careful, there great antidepressants but certain foods can be poisen with them

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by MightyKondrian on December 7, 2017, at 8:15:24

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 6, 2017, at 21:35:57

Such big lists yet so conflicting. Cherries? Over- ripe fruit? Dried fruit? CHEESE CAKE???
And whos gonna eat a banana skin?

I've had one incident. Well 2 including a drug interaction. They were lamb's liver and a legal high containing ephedrine.
The liver was by far the worst.

Mightykondrian

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 7, 2017, at 12:46:17

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by MightyKondrian on December 7, 2017, at 8:15:24

I think also, it depends on which MAOI it is, like Marplan seems a bit more risky because it effects all 3 neurotransmitters, but parnate is mainly a MAO-B and it does not effect serotonin much at all.....

im not sure if that list is totally accurate, but it's mainly tyrammine rich foods that can increase neurotransmitter levels dangerous with certain MAOI's

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad? rjlockhart37

Posted by MightyKondrian on December 7, 2017, at 16:02:40

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 6, 2017, at 21:35:57


> i've never been on any of the MAO's but be careful, there great antidepressants but certain foods can be poisen with them

You are right, I should be careful.
Been on MAOIs 17yrs. But I've been extremely reckless in the past.

Taken MDMA/MDA/MDEA, coke, crack, amphetamine NOT at low doses, mephedrone (M-cat), Ritalin & Salvia on Marplan. Drank and smoked lots of weed on both but mainly Marplan. Taken about 180mg Nardil & water throughout a night at a club once. Better than anything else going in the club...
Went to 150mg daily with Marplan & currently 120mg Nardil (just saying, not clever. Thats all in the past except for the odd taster of weed or beer). OD'd on bupropion & drink whilst taking Marplan and a few others.

I dont fully agree with different MAOIs boosting different neurotransmitters at different amounts, tho maybe at 1st. Like Parnate is said to be activating at 1st but smooths out after daily dosing. They all inhibit monoamine oxidase nearly completely. All three boost all three.

Guess it depends on the person too. But most of these are stimulants or hallucinogens and wont necessarily be expected to cause problems.

Dont be dumb- dont do what I've done. Just a quick note of my own experimentation.

Whats bizarre is that the only hypertensive reactions I've had were purely accidental.

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by baseball55 on December 7, 2017, at 18:12:26

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad? rjlockhart37, posted by MightyKondrian on December 7, 2017, at 16:02:40

These long lists are mostly ridiculous. I've seen some that say no eggplant, oranges, plums and on and on. What I was told at McLean was the simple form - no aged cheeses or meats. Careful with soy. No marmite (??-a UK thing), no sauerkraut and no draft beer. That was it

I cheat constantly. I love cheddar and gouda and feta. I have even had small amounts of blue cheese. I know I am pushing the envelope and I know that 4 years of no problem doesn't mean there won't be a problem. But....so far no problem. My p-doc warns me to be careful, but also pointed out early on that if a couple of ounces of cheese and salami and a couple of drafts would kill you, nobody would prescribe MAOIs. These are warnings, not certainties. He said you're probably okay with an ounce of cheese. I read 1/4 cup of soy sauce is fine. I'll occasionally have a slice of pepperoni pizza - maybe a couple of ounces.

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad? baseball55

Posted by MightyKondrian on December 8, 2017, at 3:12:25

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by baseball55 on December 7, 2017, at 18:12:26

> These long lists are mostly ridiculous. I've seen some that say no eggplant, oranges, plums and on and on. What I was told at McLean was the simple form - no aged cheeses or meats. Careful with soy. No marmite (??-a UK thing), no sauerkraut and no draft beer. That was it
>
> I cheat constantly. I love cheddar and gouda and feta. I have even had small amounts of blue cheese. I know I am pushing the envelope and I know that 4 years of no problem doesn't mean there won't be a problem. But....so far no problem. My p-doc warns me to be careful, but also pointed out early on that if a couple of ounces of cheese and salami and a couple of drafts would kill you, nobody would prescribe MAOIs. These are warnings, not certainties. He said you're probably okay with an ounce of cheese. I read 1/4 cup of soy sauce is fine. I'll occasionally have a slice of pepperoni pizza - maybe a couple of ounces.

Thanks for not putting me to shame lol. I kinda expected one or two hate posts but I got a sensible reply instead. Yeah, everyone STAY OFF THE (recreational) DRUGS!

Yup, here Marmite is yeast extract spread. Pretty yummy! Dont forget Bovril either which I'm pretty sure is meat extract spread. You can dissolve it too to make a drink or soup. And watch those broths/gravy.

Another one we are told to stay clear of is L-dopa. Not just a Parkinson drug but found in food too. I think its in flava bean pods and other bean pods too and possibly Banana skins(?).

Chocolate is another. I think its because it contains some amount of PEA (phenylethylamine). Most people do not feel any effect because MAO breaks it down almost instantly. Hence why we feel its effects when taking MAOIs. Not from chocolate as such (unless u ate a couple bars of 90% cocoa dark chocolate perhaps). But I've never had any such reaction and I love chocolate (who doesn't?!). What I have tried however is neat PEA, and I warn you it 'felt' dangerous. Similar to when I accidentally took ephedrine hidden inside a 'legal' high containing a plant I didn't know containing Ephedrine. Cant remember what this plant was called but it wasn't Ephedra. Pseudoephedrine (Sudafed), a non-psycho stimulant (at least non-euphoric) for nasal congestion is another med which must not be taken (its often also used as a stimulant simply to stay awake). So watch out for nasal sprays too. Sudafed's milder form is bad too coz it contains phenylephrine, a milder but still dangerous non-psycho stimulant.

Aah enough....
Sorry to side-track.

MightyKondrian

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by SLS on December 8, 2017, at 7:01:31

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by baseball55 on December 7, 2017, at 18:12:26

> I'll occasionally have a slice of pepperoni pizza - maybe a couple of ounces.

My only reaction occurred when I accidentally ate a few bites of a pepperoni pizza. The headache hurt like hell with pounding at the base of my skull behind the neck. Now, avoid pepperoni and other salamis. So far, fresh sausage is okay. It's the aged stuff that I am reluctant to go near.


- Scott

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by pedr on December 8, 2017, at 10:13:18

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by SLS on December 8, 2017, at 7:01:31

> > I'll occasionally have a slice of pepperoni pizza - maybe a couple of ounces.
>
> My only reaction occurred when I accidentally ate a few bites of a pepperoni pizza. The headache hurt like hell with pounding at the base of my skull behind the neck. Now, avoid pepperoni and other salamis. So far, fresh sausage is okay. It's the aged stuff that I am reluctant to go near.
>
>
> - Scott

It's strange isn't it - I had 2 slices accidentally of pepperoni pizza the other week and didn't feel anything. However when in London I had 1/2 a pint of lager (draught i.e. not bottled) and ended up in hospital. Probably the most severe (headache) pain I've ever experienced.

I just subscribe to whatever's on psychotropical.info since he's got the most experience. In a nutshell: no aged/old/stale cheese/meats. I've found "supermarket" cheddar no problem. A bit of Parmesan in meals has been fine too. Similarly "supermarket" soy sauce is no problem but if you got some authentic, expensive Japanese stuff you might be in trouble.

One thing I did learn recently: cooking the potential Tyramine sauce has no effect on the Tyramine. So don't go around thinking that just cos it's cooked, it's been "nuked" :)

Pete

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by pedr on December 8, 2017, at 10:17:00

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by pedr on December 8, 2017, at 10:13:18

One more thing: it's 100% dose-dependent. I.e. a small chunk of Stilton is completely different to several huge mouthfuls. Hence soy sauce is realistically unlikely a problem for most since we use relatively small amounts of it (as well as "supermarket" soy sauce having low Tyramine levels).

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by MightyKondrian on December 8, 2017, at 10:41:46

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by pedr on December 8, 2017, at 10:17:00

I notice that Americans call it all 'soy'. Here in the UK its usually referred to as 'soya'. Soya beans, milk, tofu & Yofu (Branded soya yogurt with live cultures). All from soya beans.
However, there is also 'soy' sauce which is very different indeed! Spicy, salty with a strong taste. Its also a dark colour, whereas soya beans make white products.
I'm pretty sure it contains lots of MSG too. Hence the phrase 'Chinese restaurant syndrome'.
I'm sure its in Chow Mein. Funny I'm having Chinese later! Chicken Thai curry with boiled rice. YUM!!

Anyway can anyone make sense of this soya/soy thing? What say you?

MightyKondrian

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad? pedr

Posted by SLS on December 8, 2017, at 11:07:07

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by pedr on December 8, 2017, at 10:13:18

Good info. Thanks.


- Scott

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 8, 2017, at 14:04:29

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by MightyKondrian on December 8, 2017, at 10:41:46

i always carried nifedipine with me while on MAOi. However the whole 10mg of the capsule was too much. I took 5mg. Licked it off the back of my hand.


 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?

Posted by baseball55 on December 8, 2017, at 18:09:31

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad? baseball55, posted by MightyKondrian on December 8, 2017, at 3:12:25


high containing a plant I didn't know containing Ephedrine. Cant remember what this plant was called but it wasn't Ephedra. Pseudoephedrine (Sudafed), a non-psycho stimulant (at least non-euphoric) for nasal congestion is another med which must not be taken (its often also used as a stimulant simply to stay awake). So watch out for nasal sprays too. Sudafed's milder form is bad too coz it contains phenylephrine, a milder but still dangerous non-psycho stimulant.
>I was told not to take anything that contained epinephrine. When I go to the dentist, he has to give me something other than novocaine (all preparations contain epinephrine). He hates this, because epinephrine is a vaso-constricter, so the novocaine takes a long time to wear off. I like it, because my mouth isn't numb for two hours after seeing him.
> Aah enough....
> Sorry to side-track.
>
> MightyKondrian

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad? MightyKondrian

Posted by pedr on December 11, 2017, at 10:42:37

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad?, posted by MightyKondrian on December 8, 2017, at 10:41:46

> I notice that Americans call it all 'soy'. Here in the UK its usually referred to as 'soya'. Soya beans, milk, tofu & Yofu (Branded soya yogurt with live cultures). All from soya beans.
> However, there is also 'soy' sauce which is very different indeed! Spicy, salty with a strong taste. Its also a dark colour, whereas soya beans make white products.
> I'm pretty sure it contains lots of MSG too. Hence the phrase 'Chinese restaurant syndrome'.
> I'm sure its in Chow Mein. Funny I'm having Chinese later! Chicken Thai curry with boiled rice. YUM!!
>
> Anyway can anyone make sense of this soya/soy thing? What say you?
>
> MightyKondrian

It all depends on whether the soya is fermented or not (which is consistent with the whole "aged" food theme), as per this discussion: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?post=/babble/20030609/msgs/233470.html#233470. I.e. soya milk is fine, use fermented soy products with caution.

 

Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad? pedr

Posted by MightyKondrian on December 11, 2017, at 11:21:23

In reply to Re: MAOIs and cheeses. Which are safe or bad? MightyKondrian, posted by pedr on December 11, 2017, at 10:42:37

> It all depends on whether the soya is fermented or not (which is consistent with the whole "aged" food theme), as per this discussion: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?post=/babble/20030609/msgs/233470.html#233470. I.e. soya milk is fine, use fermented soy products with caution.

It cant be as easy as that. Yogurt is aged, so is Tofu


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