Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1096185

Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

what is being treated?

Posted by Christ_empowered on December 4, 2017, at 21:04:15

My official label/diagnosis is (apparently...) Bipolar I. My label/social role in the community is "Schizophrenic" or "uppity mental patient," LOL>

This raises the question...

what the shrinks treating? do the drugs really help? Is there proof that psychiatric treatment helps individuals, families, communities, society?

I'm not trying to be obnoxious. I'm on 3 psych drugs now--Abilify, Wellbutrin, and trileptal. For this season of my life, treatment makes sense, it really does. But will it always? Especially with a tranquilizer in the mix, I'm hoping to -somehow- resolve my problems and move on. Or at least...drop the tranquilizer, lol.

But...seriously...do you think anyone's getting better in the world of mental health? And what are we treating? people? symptoms? diseases? disorders?

I'm not gung ho about antipsychiatry or "critical psychiatry," but...I do think they make valid points. I used to love Szasz, but now...oh man. What a hard right, uber-libertarian he was. Not my style, not these days...

Anyway...is psychiatry helping, hurting, or is it...just something that is, and has to be dealt with, a fact of life in modern cultures?

Thanks.

 

Re: what is being treated?

Posted by baseball55 on December 5, 2017, at 16:02:54

In reply to what is being treated?, posted by Christ_empowered on December 4, 2017, at 21:04:15

I never read Szasz, but when I went to a psychiatrist for the first time at 49, I was pretty much a mess. It wasn't that "society" had deemed me "crazy." I needed and wanted help. When I started therapy, my (now ex-) husband went into this rant about the manufacture of mental illness, blah, blah, blah. I said to him - look, it's not like these guys are trolling the streets looking for patients. I went to him. I needed help.

Your situation, CE, was different. You were (placed/forced?, by whom?) into treatment when you were young (I assume?). Not talk therapy, but hospitalization.

I was hospitalized when I was young (14-16), but at a very enlightened state hospital in MA for children only. No forced treatment, lots of therapy and interaction with ward counselors. I needed help and got it.

> My official label/diagnosis is (apparently...) Bipolar I. My label/social role in the community is "Schizophrenic" or "uppity mental patient," LOL>
>
> This raises the question...
>
> what the shrinks treating? do the drugs really help? Is there proof that psychiatric treatment helps individuals, families, communities, society?
>
> I'm not trying to be obnoxious. I'm on 3 psych drugs now--Abilify, Wellbutrin, and trileptal. For this season of my life, treatment makes sense, it really does. But will it always? Especially with a tranquilizer in the mix, I'm hoping to -somehow- resolve my problems and move on. Or at least...drop the tranquilizer, lol.
>
> But...seriously...do you think anyone's getting better in the world of mental health? And what are we treating? people? symptoms? diseases? disorders?
>
> I'm not gung ho about antipsychiatry or "critical psychiatry," but...I do think they make valid points. I used to love Szasz, but now...oh man. What a hard right, uber-libertarian he was. Not my style, not these days...
>
> Anyway...is psychiatry helping, hurting, or is it...just something that is, and has to be dealt with, a fact of life in modern cultures?
>
> Thanks.
>

 

Re: what is being treated?

Posted by Christ_empowered on December 5, 2017, at 17:21:06

In reply to Re: what is being treated?, posted by baseball55 on December 5, 2017, at 16:02:54

hi. Szasz scares me these days, honestly. Its interesting...I became a Christian, and I think he makes some valid points, but he's way too punitive, pro-capitalist, etc. -shudder-

I feel as if I've been pulled in multiple directions. Its this, not that, you're this, not that, stop this, stop that...ugh.

My parents are more "well-to-do" (for this area) at this point, and that helps tremendously. We've reconciled, they take good care of me, I receive disability, and...

I sometimes wonder if my "madness" is necessary, in order for me to have my parents behind me, have some -space-, figure things out ("recover"), etc.

The 1st hospital was a private, for profit affair that ripped me to shreds, no lie. I almost died of a restoril overdose. The 2nd hospital is/was "very well-regarded," and they gave me the works, 50s style (heavy shock, a hefty dose of Haldol the next day, etc.).

I...don't know what to make of things. I'm having better luck w/ the community/public mental health clinic. No forced treatment for me, no controlled substances, no profit motive in victimizing me, either.

I don't know. Whether "mental illness" is real as a biologically-rooted entity or not, it is very, very real as a social construct. Maybe one day I'll fully "recover" and do...something. Or maybe not. Life could be far worse, that's for sure.


Thanks for your reply, btw. :-)

 

Re: what is being treated? Christ_empowered

Posted by SLS on December 5, 2017, at 20:14:46

In reply to what is being treated?, posted by Christ_empowered on December 4, 2017, at 21:04:15

> My official label/diagnosis is (apparently...) Bipolar I. My label/social role in the community is "Schizophrenic" or "uppity mental patient," LOL>

You live in a small community?

> This raises the question...
>
> what the shrinks treating?

I think that depends on how accurate the diagnosis is.

> Do the drugs really help?

Abilify seems to help you. It has been critical in keeping you stable as you have described in the past.

> Is there proof that psychiatric treatment helps individuals, families, communities, society?

Absolutely. Why are you not sure of this by now?

> I'm not trying to be obnoxious.

You don't come across as being at all obnoxious - just honest.

> I'm on 3 psych drugs now--Abilify, Wellbutrin, and trileptal.

Does Lamictal make you manic or otherwise psychotic? If not, you might consider adding it to all three of the other drugs you take - along with NAC (N-acetylcysteine).

> For this season of my life, treatment makes sense, it really does. But will it always?

With your history? Probably. Maybe someday soon, gene therapy will be used so that psychotropics can be avoided.

I don't know. Perhaps employing psychotherapy would reduce your need for medication. Psychosocial stress is damaging.

Think about it, though. How is Abilify helping you right now? What role does it play in your treatment?

> But...seriously...do you think anyone's getting better in the world of mental health?

You have never heard or read of a success story?

> And what are we treating? people? symptoms? diseases? disorders?

All of them.


-Scott

 

Re: what is being treated? Christ_empowered

Posted by SLS on December 6, 2017, at 6:42:02

In reply to Re: what is being treated?, posted by Christ_empowered on December 5, 2017, at 17:21:06

I have a question.

What is the main reason why you find higher dosages of Abilify to be deleterious or otherwise undesirable? For example, do higher dosages produce flat affect, dysphoria, or cognitive/memory impairments that disappear at lower dosages.


- Scott

 

Re: what is being treated?

Posted by Christ_empowered on December 6, 2017, at 7:24:08

In reply to Re: what is being treated? Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on December 6, 2017, at 6:42:02

hi, sls.

OK. 20mgs -was- my sweet spot. Then, I reintroduced Wellbutrin @ 400mgs (SR). Now, I'm back to 30, and its OK.

Thing is...Abilify is the -only- tranquilizer I've tried that I can fully, completely tolerate...no stiffness, no stiff gait, no akathisia. It seems like akathisia is a big deal w/ Abilify, but...I got akathisia from low dose Zyprexa and then Seroquel, so I'm guessing there's a subset of people/patients who do better on Abilify.

The vitamins help w/ tolerability. I doubt Orthomolecular "cures" major mental afflictions, but I do seem to get more mileage out of treatment, and I have 0 TD, 0 EPS, etc.

Honestly, at this point...I think 30mgs may have just been a bit sedating, and that slowed down my thoughts a bit. With the Wellbutrin on board, 30mgs is necessary -and- the sedation is not a big deal.

Thanks again for your replies.

 

Re: what is being treated? Christ_empowered

Posted by SLS on December 6, 2017, at 8:34:04

In reply to Re: what is being treated?, posted by Christ_empowered on December 6, 2017, at 7:24:08

1. If Wellbutrin necessitates an increase in your dosage of Abilify, then something about it is counterproductive. Does it help so much with depression that it's worth the trade-off? Is it possible that pro-dopaminergic drugs worsen your condition i.e. Wellbutrin and Abilify (through partial agonism)? You might want to switch from Abilify (aripiprazole) to Rexulti (brexpiprazole). Rexulti is less potent at the D3 receptor and more potent at the D2 receptor. Rexulti *should* be less likely to produce akathisia, and I doubt you would need higher dosages to offset Wellbutrin to the point where you experience mood and cognitive side effects. I have seen the introduction of Abilify require increases in Seroquel from 300 mg/day to 900 mg/day in order to maintain the antipsychotic effects of Seroquel. I think this gives evidence to the pro-dopaminergic effects of Abilify that probably occurs in some circumstances. So, You might want to consider switching from Abilify to Rexulti and retain the Wellbutrin if necessary. Personally, I received less improvement in depression from Rexulti than I do with Abilify.

2. You can try switching from Abilify to Saphris, a drug that I happen to like for both psychosis (especially for paranoia) and depression. You should probably bring in the Saphris before reducing the Abilify just to make sure you have antipsychotic coverage. The two ways to accomplish this are to 1) cross-titrate and 2) Reach a target therapeutic dosage of Rexulti before beginning to taper the Abilify.

3. What has been your experience with Lamictal?

4. You should consider adding N-acetylcysteine (NAC). It is good for both depression and psychosis.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3044191/

It can take several months for NAC to provide maximal effect, so having patience is necessary - as long as there are no adverse side effects.


- Scott

 

Re: what is being treated?

Posted by Christ_empowered on December 6, 2017, at 8:45:32

In reply to Re: what is being treated? Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on December 6, 2017, at 8:34:04

hi. i dont know if i'll need the 30mgs indefinitely. doctors have always given me something to offset start up anxiety when prescribing antidepressants....extra abilify, gabapentin, low dose risperidone, etc. i'm thinking i might simmer down after a month or so and go back down to 20.

NAC sounds promising. My online vitamin place has a good deal on Jarrow NAC sustain...I'm all about time-release.

do you think 2 antidepressant w/ abilify would be terrible? My current, official diagnosis is Bipolar I w/obsessive traits, possibly full on ocd. The wellbutrin lifts my mood and helps me concentrate, but the looping thoughts are still...well, looping, lol. the last time I took an ssri, it was celexa, which helped, but then i felt over-tranquilized, so i dropped it. maybe wellbutrin+ some kinda ssri?

can remeron help ocd? I've never taken it. A quick google-ing shows some information, but I don't think it is considered "standard treatment."

Thanks for your help.

 

Re: what is being treated?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 6, 2017, at 9:28:50

In reply to Re: what is being treated?, posted by Christ_empowered on December 6, 2017, at 8:45:32

Hi Christempowered,

i have rarely seen that all the experimenting really pays off. That is my impression. Are you still on disability? Are there programs in your community that could get you up and working again?

What are the reasons why you are not content with your situation?

I just want to understand. Like me you are sceptical of psychedrugs. But you dont follow through on your convictions.

Do you do or have experienced psychotherapy? Music therapy, arts? Is there anything that could help besides new meds?

 

Re: what is being treated?

Posted by pedr on December 6, 2017, at 10:18:53

In reply to Re: what is being treated?, posted by baseball55 on December 5, 2017, at 16:02:54

> I never read Szasz, but when I went to a psychiatrist for the first time at 49, I was pretty much a mess. It wasn't that "society" had deemed me "crazy." I needed and wanted help.

This is me too. I'm not denying that there are other societal aspects going on but I messed myself up psychologically after a break-up and could no longer function. I went to get help. 95%+ of that help (talk therapy, meds, TMS, hypnotherapy etc.) has in fact not helped but that's besides the point I suppose.

FTR I am 20+ years TRD and pure OCD with other fun stuff like chronic pain and IBS-C.

 

Re: what is being treated?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 7, 2017, at 6:34:56

In reply to Re: what is being treated?, posted by pedr on December 6, 2017, at 10:18:53

Hi pedr,

what were the 5%?

Regards,
Lamdage

 

Re: what is being treated? pedr

Posted by SLS on December 7, 2017, at 9:06:04

In reply to Re: what is being treated?, posted by pedr on December 6, 2017, at 10:18:53

> > I never read Szasz, but when I went to a psychiatrist for the first time at 49, I was pretty much a mess. It wasn't that "society" had deemed me "crazy." I needed and wanted help.
>
> This is me too. I'm not denying that there are other societal aspects going on but I messed myself up psychologically after a break-up and could no longer function. I went to get help. 95%+ of that help (talk therapy, meds, TMS, hypnotherapy etc.) has in fact not helped but that's besides the point I suppose.
>
> FTR I am 20+ years TRD and pure OCD with other fun stuff like chronic pain and IBS-C.


Keep moving forward. Don't give up.

My break-up with my first love destroyed me. I got dumped very hard. It made my depression worse, especially the impairments in cognition and memory. The first thing I did was to go for psychotherapy. It didn't help at all. It wasn't until someone handed me a book called "Mood Swing" by Ronald Fieve that I realized that my depression was biological in origin. I hated that idea. I wanted complete control over my mood, and to be able to conquer it psychotherapeutically. That it was biological and beyond my control angered me. I elected to go to the psychiatric services of Columbia-Presbyterian hospital in NYC. The very first drug they tried on me, imipramine, worked. I experienced remission - a 100% improvement. It was AWESOME! Unfortunately, the remission didn't last for more than a few weeks, but it proved to me that my illness was indeed biological and that I needed a biological intervention to feel better.

You do realize that OCD often requires higher dosages of SRI drugs taken for longer periods of time in order to work when compared to depression? For instance, some people whose OCD responds to Prozac (fluoxetine) need 60 mg/day or more taken for several months to see results.

What are some of the treatments you received to treat depression and OCD? Have you tried Anafranil (clomipramine)? You can possibly treat all of your maladies with this one drug. It is known to be particularly effective as an anti-OCD, antidpressant, anti-IBS, and antinociceptive. The only caveat is that its anticholinergic properties might make constipation worse. I don't know. Tricyclics never affected me that way. If there is no way you can tolerate clomipramine, you might instead consider using nortriptyline in combination with a SRI. Nortriptyline can help with depression, IBS-C, and chronic pain (especially neuropathic). The SRI would help with depression and OCD.


- Scott

 

Re: what is being treated?

Posted by baseball55 on December 7, 2017, at 17:57:19

In reply to Re: what is being treated? pedr, posted by SLS on December 7, 2017, at 9:06:04

Therapy helped me A LOT. I did begin to experience, about a year into therapy, my first really bad descents into long and severe depressions. So I guess it might seem like it didn't help much at all. But at least, by then, I was able to ask for help. Before I would just have killed myself. And whenever the depression lifted for periods, I was able to function well, interact more meaningfully with other people, be more aware of what I was feeling and thinking.

When the worst of the depression lifted 4-1/2 years ago, I was a transformed person, thanks to therapy. Several severe (but not long-lived, thanks to abilify) depressive episodes over the last few years reinforce my certainty that depression is a neurobiological problem for me.
But in so many other ways, I function at a much higher level, with much higher emotional IQ than I ever had before.

 

Re: what is being treated?

Posted by baseball55 on December 7, 2017, at 17:58:04

In reply to Re: what is being treated? pedr, posted by SLS on December 7, 2017, at 9:06:04

Therapy helped me A LOT. I did begin to experience, about a year into therapy, my first really bad descents into long and severe depressions. So I guess it might seem like it didn't help much at all. But at least, by then, I was able to ask for help. Before I would just have killed myself. And whenever the depression lifted for periods, I was able to function well, interact more meaningfully with other people, be more aware of what I was feeling and thinking.

When the worst of the depression lifted 4-1/2 years ago, I was a transformed person, thanks to therapy. Several severe (but not long-lived, thanks to abilify) depressive episodes over the last few years reinforce my certainty that depression is a neurobiological problem for me.
But in so many other ways, I function at a much higher level, with much higher emotional IQ than I ever had before.

 

Re: what is being treated? baseball55

Posted by SLS on December 7, 2017, at 21:48:24

In reply to Re: what is being treated?, posted by baseball55 on December 7, 2017, at 17:58:04

Hi BB55.

> Therapy helped me A LOT. I did begin to experience, about a year into therapy, my first really bad descents into long and severe depressions. So I guess it might seem like it didn't help much at all. But at least, by then, I was able to ask for help. Before I would just have killed myself. And whenever the depression lifted for periods, I was able to function well, interact more meaningfully with other people, be more aware of what I was feeling and thinking.
>
> When the worst of the depression lifted 4-1/2 years ago, I was a transformed person, thanks to therapy. Several severe (but not long-lived, thanks to abilify) depressive episodes over the last few years reinforce my certainty that depression is a neurobiological problem for me.
> But in so many other ways, I function at a much higher level, with much higher emotional IQ than I ever had before.

Yes. Along with feeling better in the present and understanding the past, I looked at therapy as a sort of preparation for my moving forward in life - just as soon as my freedom from depression would allow. I wanted to be as psychologically healthy as possible so that I could start running right away. So, psychotherapy helped me to clean up the mess that was my childhood. I still have work to do, but much of that has to do with the lack of life experience.


- Scott

 

Re: what is being treated?

Posted by baseball55 on December 8, 2017, at 18:00:53

In reply to Re: what is being treated? baseball55, posted by SLS on December 7, 2017, at 21:48:24

> Yes. Along with feeling better in the present and understanding the past, I looked at therapy as a sort of preparation for my moving forward in life - just as soon as my freedom from depression would allow. I wanted to be as psychologically healthy as possible so that I could start running right away. So, psychotherapy helped me to clean up the mess that was my childhood. I still have work to do, but much of that has to do with the lack of life experience.
>
>
> - Scott

Exactly. And for those of us with messed up lives, dealing with all the wreckage of the past and grieving our losses is essential to moving on.


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