Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1095219

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Serious depression for first time in yrs....

Posted by PeterMartin on October 6, 2017, at 18:10:31

I've posted a bit about my failed trial to switch MAOis this month but just had to post somewhere that while I'm waiting for my old med to provide relief I'm in worst depression I've had in probably 10yrs. Perhaps it's part Parnate withdrawal since it has that immediate amphetamine effect.

Whatever the cause I'm 3days back on my old med of 7yrs(Marplan) and praying it somehow brings me back. Just been sleeping nonstop and haunted by movielike dreams I remember on wake. Everything is heavy / don't want to do anything. I can't help not to think seeing things in my life this way won't change me a little.

Sorry to anyone else who can relate right now.

Past 3days:
Marplan 40
Lamictal 150
Nuvigil 125 (doesn't do much / never really seemed to)
Seroquel 25

 

Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs....

Posted by linkadge on October 6, 2017, at 18:37:23

In reply to Serious depression for first time in yrs...., posted by PeterMartin on October 6, 2017, at 18:10:31

Hmm. Not sure what to recommend.

It almost sounds like you are going through some sort of REM rebound (vivid dreams).

When the MAOI works for you, how much sleep would you get, on average? Was it broken sleep?

Have you ever tried lithium with an MAOI? I know it's not the first thought for atypical depression, but it can help sort out the sleep wake cycle.

I would say my depression went into a much longer term remission with the addition of a low dose of lithium (300mg).

Ensure you are getting adequate b12 and vitamin D.

You might experiment (cautiously) with melatonin. It may sound counterproductive (for oversleep), but it can help reset sleep & wake (which can sometimes be messed up by MAOIs).

Magnesium / zinc would be safe & cheap additions to an MAOI (with possible faster acting benefit)

Any exercise you can force yourself to do will be beneficial. Exercise releases PEA (endogenous amphetamine) which will be prolonged by MAOB inhibition.

Linkadge

 

Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs....

Posted by PeterMartin on October 6, 2017, at 20:21:42

In reply to Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs...., posted by linkadge on October 6, 2017, at 18:37:23

Thanks for the suggestions. I feel like something may have changed for the good in the past few hours. Really hoping so after 3 days of almost complete anhedonia. Took a half of a caffeine tab along w/ my afternoon Marplan (10mg / 30total today).

I have an uncommon high bp reaction when I add Lithium to an MAOi. I don't think it happens early on/immediately though. It did cross my mind earlier to take a tiny bit in a glass of water. Didn't do it though...

The whole up and down of my failed month long trial to switch to Parnate has me spooked a bit. Have new insurance next year and there is a good chance they won't cover Marplan at all so my doc and I thought it good to try a switch before the 1st.

Now I just hope I can get back to where I was early Sept when I first stopped Marplan for a wk to try Parnate (didn't work out due to high BP spikes after doses). Figure out a different plan or maybe just wait until I'm sure I'll have no choice but to change.

The REM rebound sound likey. I've had it in the past but maybe not along with such a deep drepression. It's the worst when the dreams are movielike nightmares that you don't just forget on wake. Linger for a few hours.....ugh.

I've stopped/started Marplan a few times in the past and it usually takes 10 to 14 days for early wake ups to start. That's usually when I start to feel "like myself".

Thx again for replying.

 

Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs....

Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 6, 2017, at 20:53:18

In reply to Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs...., posted by linkadge on October 6, 2017, at 18:37:23

bump the nuvigil up, it works better at 250mg - 300mg, it does, 150mg is small dose and does not have much of a reinforcing effect, i've taken up to 400mg but don't redose on nuvigil, it's half-life is 15 hours, but it generally lasts around 8 hours in mind alertness

try to bump it to 250-300mg it does work well at that dose

 

Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs....

Posted by PeterMartin on October 6, 2017, at 22:54:13

In reply to Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs...., posted by rjlockhart37 on October 6, 2017, at 20:53:18

> bump the nuvigil up, it works better at 250mg - 300mg, it does, 150mg is small dose and does not have much of a reinforcing effect, i've taken up to 400mg but don't redose on nuvigil, it's half-life is 15 hours, but it generally lasts around 8 hours in mind alertness
>
> try to bump it to 250-300mg it does work well at that dose


I'm prescribed 250 a day so I could try thar.

I honestly think I'm one of the people who don't respond to it. There's a study or theory that people w a certain Gene don't get the benefit that most people do since they process dopamine in different way (it's talked about on Reddit group afinil). I cant even say I feel it much if at all (was similar w Modafinil which I started early this yr then switched).

Might be good to try a little more tomorrow though just to make sure it wouldn't help....


 

Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs....

Posted by linkadge on October 7, 2017, at 11:09:31

In reply to Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs...., posted by PeterMartin on October 6, 2017, at 20:21:42

Yeah, parnate can be a bit harsh on the body, especially if you (like myself) have a reaction to it.

I don't know if scopolamine is available in your area (in Canada its OTC), but it has been used as a rapid acting antidepressant.

It is an anticholinergic, which AFAIK has no interactions with an MAOI.

Linkadge

 

Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs....

Posted by Hugh on October 11, 2017, at 10:11:52

In reply to Serious depression for first time in yrs...., posted by PeterMartin on October 6, 2017, at 18:10:31

You're bipolar 1, aren't you? Because I just saw this today:

Daily exposure to bright white light at midday significantly decreased symptoms of depression and increased functioning in people with bipolar disorder, a recent Northwestern Medicine study found.

Previous studies found morning bright light therapy reduced symptoms of depression in patients with Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD.). But patients with bipolar disorder can experience side effects such as mania or mixed symptoms from this type of depression treatment. This study implemented a novel midday light therapy intervention in an effort to provide relief for bipolar depression and avoid those side effects.

Compared to dim placebo light, study particpants assigned to bright white light between noon and 2:30 p.m. for six weeks experienced a significantly higher remission rate (minimal depression and return to normal functioning). More than 68 percent of patients who received midday bright light achieved a normal level of mood, compared to 22.2 percent of patients who received the placebo light.

The group receiving bright light therapy also had a much lower average depression score of 9.2 compared to 14.9 for the placebo group and significantly higher functioning, meaning they could go back to work or complete tasks around the house they hadn't been able to finish prior to treatment.

Complete article:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-10-bright-therapy-midday-patients-bipolar.html

 

Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs....

Posted by beckett2 on October 11, 2017, at 16:09:18

In reply to Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs...., posted by Hugh on October 11, 2017, at 10:11:52

> You're bipolar 1, aren't you? Because I just saw this today:
>
> Daily exposure to bright white light at midday significantly decreased symptoms of depression and increased functioning in people with bipolar disorder, a recent Northwestern Medicine study found.
>
> Previous studies found morning bright light therapy reduced symptoms of depression in patients with Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD.). But patients with bipolar disorder can experience side effects such as mania or mixed symptoms from this type of depression treatment. This study implemented a novel midday light therapy intervention in an effort to provide relief for bipolar depression and avoid those side effects.
>
> Compared to dim placebo light, study particpants assigned to bright white light between noon and 2:30 p.m. for six weeks experienced a significantly higher remission rate (minimal depression and return to normal functioning). More than 68 percent of patients who received midday bright light achieved a normal level of mood, compared to 22.2 percent of patients who received the placebo light.
>
> The group receiving bright light therapy also had a much lower average depression score of 9.2 compared to 14.9 for the placebo group and significantly higher functioning, meaning they could go back to work or complete tasks around the house they hadn't been able to finish prior to treatment.
>
> Complete article:
>
> https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-10-bright-therapy-midday-patients-bipolar.html



My experience with light is the same, and, at least in the beginning, the positive effect was immediate. For me, after a good bump in mood, long term improvement only goes so far, but that might be enough to improve the severity of depression. I use this one: http://tinyurl.com/y8yqd2sy

Curious the different timing of light exposure between BP and unipolar depression.

 

Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs....

Posted by Lamdage22 on October 20, 2017, at 11:38:20

In reply to Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs...., posted by beckett2 on October 11, 2017, at 16:09:18

This med talk is so futile

 

Re: Serious depression for first time in yrs....

Posted by Lamdage22 on October 22, 2017, at 4:26:50

In reply to Serious depression for first time in yrs...., posted by PeterMartin on October 6, 2017, at 18:10:31

I dont think that meds will get you out of this. They may have gotten you into this severe depression in the first place.


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