Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1094580

Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by linkadge on August 23, 2017, at 7:54:00

>That anxiety is not a disease to treat.

Again, I disagree. We don't know enough to say.

You can create high anxiety and low anxiety mice simply by altering (at the genetic level) certain gaba-a receptor subtypes.

My anxiety could be the result of an infection, or it could be genetic (i.e. different expression of a gaba receptor, ion channel, neurotransmitter system, hormone system, CCK, substance P, NMDA).

We don't know.

Keep in mind, many infections (i.e streptococcal causes its psychiatric effects through interaction with neurotransmitter systems - NMDA in this case). So, the infection / immune theory, is a complementary theory (IMHO) not necessary an exclusive one.

We're only barely scratching the surface in terms of our understanding of these things.

Linkadge

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by bleauberry on August 23, 2017, at 8:07:55

In reply to Anxiety can be a disease, posted by linkadge on August 23, 2017, at 7:54:00

Guess what happens if your cortisol drops too low for any reason? Your genes try to compensate for that by telling the adrenal glands if they can't pump out any more cortisol then pump out epinephrine or adrenaline or norepinephrine instead. And that happens.

Guess what happens if cortisol is too high? Same thing - over amp-ed on adrenaline.

What happens when you have millions of microscopic pathogens clinging to your Vegas nerve, chewing on it? Do you think that might cause some serious anxiety or what?

So above are 2 random examples of how an actual identifiable fixable physical thing causes the anxiety, and you have no idea where it is coming from.

I could list literally 100's of similar scenarios inside of your body causing anxiety. They are all treated or pushed back with umbrella approach of anti-toxicity, anti-inflammation, and anti-pathogens. You will never know the exact cause of the anxiety. But if you treat your body for toxicity, inflammation, and microbe overload, your anxiety will likely be gone. That's just my opinion based on what my eyes have seen happen with other people similar in situation to you.

The disease is whatever is causing the anxiety. It isn't just happening all by itself just because. It just isn't. Something is making it happen. And there are only 3 categories to explore. Toxicity, inflammation and microbes.

I totally understand the chemical prescription approach and I totally understand the "it's a disease" approach. Because keep in mind I was chronic treatment resistant depression patient with co-diagnosis of anxiety, schizo-affective and bipolar for a really long time - half my life - and most of that time I was right here at psychobabble every single day, sometimes every hour of every day! So believe me, I know where you are coming from. I know the mindset. It's not a bad mindset. It just doesn't lead to true healing or true remission. That's my beef with conventional treatments. They don't go deep enough to actually change the game in a real way. Generally. imo

But we'll never know.

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by linkadge on August 23, 2017, at 10:47:48

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by bleauberry on August 23, 2017, at 8:07:55

>It isn't just happening all by itself just because.

Why not?

Huntington's disease happens by itself, just because (of a bad gene).

Linkadge

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by bleauberry on August 24, 2017, at 7:35:16

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by linkadge on August 23, 2017, at 10:47:48

I don't know much about Huingtington's except that it causes a great deal of toxicity and inflammation in the body, as well as a weakened or out of balance immune system, all of which can give a person every psychiatric symptom in the book.And be very difficult to treat due to the widespread damage, constant death and debris in the blood stream from the damage of the disease, sheaths around nerve endings crumbling.

At some point you have to ask the question, "what is eating the nerves?" And how would that not create terrible psychiatric symptoms? What if it is your own immune system attacking your own flesh? That is a confused immune system, common in Lyme, and reversible with certain herbs. What if it is little microscopic critters munching nerves? That too is treatable.

Assuming it is a "bad gene", there are supplements that can build a bridge over the gap, a new path around the blocked way, a hole through the wall, there are ways to "push back" against bad genes. Psychiatric meds can help with that. But they don't often finish the job and rarely allow the patient to fully recover. As you know.

I think persistence in treatment, experimentation in treatment, and an open mind are crucial for thorough recovery. This is especially true if current protocols or past treatments have been less than satisfactory.

> >It isn't just happening all by itself just because.
>
> Why not?
>
> Huntington's disease happens by itself, just because (of a bad gene).
>
> Linkadge

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by linkadge on August 24, 2017, at 9:07:36

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by bleauberry on August 24, 2017, at 7:35:16

>>Assuming it is a "bad gene".

It is. 100%. The Huntington's gene is 100% deterministic.

Linkadge

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease bleauberry

Posted by beckett2 on August 24, 2017, at 14:21:39

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by bleauberry on August 23, 2017, at 8:07:55

Anxiety runs in my family as does bipolar and depression.
I've not found a way to treat mine that it is completely cured or surpressed. I'm up there in years and I'm tired of trying to cure it. Within this idea of a cure is a sense, I feel, this pressure that I've failed and therefore at fault. There are things to ameliorate my symptoms, and information helps, but yeah, I agree it is a disease, as in a genetic tendency.

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by linkadge on August 24, 2017, at 16:20:57

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease bleauberry, posted by beckett2 on August 24, 2017, at 14:21:39

The fact that you can selectively breed high anxiety / low anxiety mice or high anxiety / low anxiety dogs should be an indication of the genetic component.

I wouldn't say I have failed treatments. I respond well to benzodiazepines and (to a much lesser extent) antidepressants.

My hope for the future is better gaba modulating compounds.


Linkadge

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by rjlockhart37 on August 24, 2017, at 21:53:21

In reply to Anxiety can be a disease, posted by linkadge on August 23, 2017, at 7:54:00

i've had bad anxiety, but it's situational, mainly if i screw up on something or being aruond alot of people and talking i havent talked too in a while or new people, it takes a while to get all that freaking anxiety off.....makes you frozen

the worst is paranoia anxiety, thats where your paranoid and having horrible anxiety at the same time = elevated dopamine and epinephrine

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by linkadge on August 25, 2017, at 19:53:21

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by rjlockhart37 on August 24, 2017, at 21:53:21

I recently had a job interview and the (gut wrenching) anxiety started at least two weeks before.

By the time I get to the interview I am so mentally and physically depleted.

The whole process is so excruciatingly painful that I end up trying to avoid the whole process, which ends up making things worse.

People just say stupid things like...well if you were qualified, you wouldn't be anxious" or "if you knew your stuff, you wouldn't be anxious".

Whenever I have a job interview, I like to remember this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgXAt_gstcs


Linkadge


 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by beckett2 on August 25, 2017, at 23:58:29

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by linkadge on August 25, 2017, at 19:53:21

Have you read My Age of Anxiety?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y78m5d62

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by linkadge on August 26, 2017, at 11:28:13

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by beckett2 on August 25, 2017, at 23:58:29

Good article,

Linkadge

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by baseball55 on August 26, 2017, at 18:06:02

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by linkadge on August 25, 2017, at 19:53:21

I've had several episodes of anxiety where I am not worried about anything at all, where nothing has happened or may happen in my life that causes distress. Just free-floating anxiety and the symptoms are mainly physical, like I'm in an unending panic attack. 0.5mg of xanax knocks it out and, once I start to feel better, it just goes away without my continuing the xanax. It's as if my body goes into overdrive and the xanax resets it.

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by SLS on August 26, 2017, at 18:58:06

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by baseball55 on August 26, 2017, at 18:06:02

> I've had several episodes of anxiety where I am not worried about anything at all, where nothing has happened or may happen in my life that causes distress. Just free-floating anxiety and the symptoms are mainly physical, like I'm in an unending panic attack. 0.5mg of xanax knocks it out and, once I start to feel better, it just goes away without my continuing the xanax. It's as if my body goes into overdrive and the xanax resets it.

This is exactly what a friend of mine experiences. Xanax is an important drug.


- Scott

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by beckett2 on August 26, 2017, at 19:43:41

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by SLS on August 26, 2017, at 18:58:06

> > I've had several episodes of anxiety where I am not worried about anything at all, where nothing has happened or may happen in my life that causes distress. Just free-floating anxiety and the symptoms are mainly physical, like I'm in an unending panic attack. 0.5mg of xanax knocks it out and, once I start to feel better, it just goes away without my continuing the xanax. It's as if my body goes into overdrive and the xanax resets it.
>
> This is exactly what a friend of mine experiences. Xanax is an important drug.
>
>
> - Scott


That's exactly my experience with xanax. Sometimes I think about asking my pdoc for a script of like 5 tablets (I don't know if that few will be dispensed.) A few years ago I detoxed off benzodiazepines after about 12 years daily use. I came to hate the physical dependency, but I miss it as a tool. Today I experienced a hours long sense of doom and GAD cr*p. If I had had a xanax, my mind would have cleared and stomach stop hurting.

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by beckett2 on August 26, 2017, at 19:45:25

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by beckett2 on August 26, 2017, at 19:43:41

Anxiety wastes my time and sucks up my creativity :( Swimming really helps.

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease SLS

Posted by beckett2 on August 26, 2017, at 19:48:22

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by SLS on August 26, 2017, at 18:58:06

Scott, I don't really know your experiences with anxiety. Would you say it's a major problem? If you don't mind sharing.

(Gaaaah, the three post rule!)

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease beckett2

Posted by SLS on August 27, 2017, at 7:31:59

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease SLS, posted by beckett2 on August 26, 2017, at 19:48:22

> Scott, I don't really know your experiences with anxiety. Would you say it's a major problem? If you don't mind sharing.
>
> (Gaaaah, the three post rule!)

Early in the course of my illness (bipolar depression), social anxiety was intertwined with depression. I suffered depersonalization and derealization for a number of years, which included a more generalized anxiety. However, I would not characterize any of my experiences with anxiety as being GAD. I would say that my use of self-directed CBT helped to treat whatever anxiety I had. Self-discovery, self-actualization, and mindfulness were critical in my survival with severe depression and maintaining positive energy, optimism, and resilience.

Mindfulness and diaphragmatic breathing can be helpful when battling anxiety.

Have you ever tried Paxil? Of the serotonin reuptake inhibitors, it is probably the best at treating GAD and social anxiety. My guess is that Effexor would be almost as effective. Of course, Nardil should be considered if no other treatment is adequate. Nortriptyline combined with Effexor makes a good combination for depression. Perhaps it would help with GAD.


- Scott

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by SLS on August 27, 2017, at 7:38:13

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease beckett2, posted by SLS on August 27, 2017, at 7:31:59

I forgot that during the first few years of severe depression, feelings of doom were overwhelming. During this time, anxiety was very much present. During the short time that I responded to imipramine (my first drug treatment), this anxiety just about disappeared.


- Scott

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by linkadge on August 27, 2017, at 16:37:30

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by SLS on August 26, 2017, at 18:58:06

I use lorazepam 2-3 times a week. It is never in an escalating pattern, and I rarely (if ever) experience withdrawal symptoms.

If I get effective relief of the anxiety (nip it in the bud), I feel that I am in control, and the problem seems to subside. The longer I leave the anxiety to float around, the more helpless I get.

I'm sorry, but antidepressants only take things so far. A group of bad actors (benzo abusers) have to ruin it for the rest of us.

Linkadge

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease

Posted by linkadge on August 27, 2017, at 16:47:19

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by linkadge on August 27, 2017, at 16:37:30

I find Effexor so-so for anxiety. I think citalopram may have been a bit better.

The problem I have with Effexor is that it seems to make me feel emotionally detached. I seem to withdraw more socially. It feels a bit like a stimulant in that sense.

Linkadge

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease SLS

Posted by beckett2 on August 29, 2017, at 16:40:02

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease, posted by SLS on August 27, 2017, at 7:38:13

> I forgot that during the first few years of severe depression, feelings of doom were overwhelming. During this time, anxiety was very much present. During the short time that I responded to imipramine (my first drug treatment), this anxiety just about disappeared.
>
>
> - Scott

I wonder if prazosin would have helped you then. Glad to hear it's not a large part of your landscape now. Medications like what helped you (imipramine, effexor) cause agitation on my part, horrible spiking moods. (Although I've never taken a tricyclic.)

I feel I don't have enough energy to sustain that level of agitation now. Maybe that's the Eeoyre in me talking.

 

Re: Anxiety can be a disease beckett2

Posted by linkadge on August 30, 2017, at 9:50:23

In reply to Re: Anxiety can be a disease SLS, posted by beckett2 on August 29, 2017, at 16:40:02

>Medications like what helped you (imipramine, >effexor) cause agitation on my part, horrible >spiking moods. (Although I've never taken a >tricyclic.)

Imipramine is a tricyclic (the first tricyclic).

Linkadge


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