Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1094452

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Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? MightyKondrian

Posted by SLS on August 17, 2017, at 23:55:44

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? Lamdage22, posted by MightyKondrian on August 17, 2017, at 21:57:45

I like your posting name.

:-)


- Scott

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat

Posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 0:11:11

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? SLS, posted by porkpiehat on August 16, 2017, at 21:42:25

Among other things, you are likely to be BPII.

Nardil feels very much different than Parnate. In my experience, it is more of a mood brightener and can be pro-social. However, mania or hypomania may be a greater risk with Nardil, especially early in treatment. You might need to establish some type of anti-manic coverage, hopefully one that doesn't aggravate depression. Depakote can be a great anti-manic drug, but sometimes leaves one mildly to moderately depressed. Abilify can be a good choice to prevent mania, too. It can also produce some remarkable antidepressant effects when combined with an antidepressant. I know someone who actually did well combining Abilify with Lamictal. I take both drugs in addition to Parnate.

Let me know what your thought are on these things.


- Scott

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?

Posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2017, at 1:47:33

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat, posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 0:11:11

Unfortunately doctors have much experience with putting people ON medication and not so much OFF medication.

Just saying.

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?

Posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 1:50:09

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2017, at 1:47:33

> Unfortunately doctors have much experience with putting people ON medication and not so much OFF medication.
>
> Just saying.

Historically, this has been true. I don't know about now.


- Scott

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?

Posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2017, at 6:18:32

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 1:50:09

I just think that if i had followed my doctors advice with Trazodone it would have landed me in the hospital. They have this habit of always blaming the illness when somebody is in withdrawal.

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? Lamdage22

Posted by porkpiehat on August 18, 2017, at 8:50:46

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2017, at 6:18:32

> I just think that if i had followed my doctors advice with Trazodone it would have landed me in the hospital. They have this habit of always blaming the illness when somebody is in withdrawal.

Can you expand on this? What happened with trazodone (I am currently taking it for sleep on Parnate) I feel happy in the morning and then irritable in the afternoon. Sleep well though

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? (nm) Escapee

Posted by porkpiehat on August 18, 2017, at 8:54:21

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat, posted by Escapee on August 17, 2017, at 19:11:27

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? SLS

Posted by porkpiehat on August 18, 2017, at 9:15:04

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat, posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 0:11:11

> Among other things, you are likely to be BPII.
>
> Nardil feels very much different than Parnate. In my experience, it is more of a mood brightener and can be pro-social. However, mania or hypomania may be a greater risk with Nardil, especially early in treatment. You might need to establish some type of anti-manic coverage, hopefully one that doesn't aggravate depression. Depakote can be a great anti-manic drug, but sometimes leaves one mildly to moderately depressed. Abilify can be a good choice to prevent mania, too. It can also produce some remarkable antidepressant effects when combined with an antidepressant. I know someone who actually did well combining Abilify with Lamictal. I take both drugs in addition to Parnate.
>
> Let me know what your thought are on these things.
>
>
> - Scott

I think Lamictal might be at the root of some stuff after taking it for 12 years. If nothing else it gives me some sense of having "balls" and not feeling super unwelcome everywhere I go. Other times it makes me so cognitively impaired or self-flagelating.

Did Nardil lift you up to the point of being insensitive and emotionally blunted? Why did you switch to Parnate? Do you have the same daytime sedation on both? Weight gain? Did you wash out between MAOIs?

In my experience Abilify (with low dose celexa I think and lamictal) made me feel detatched until BAM compulsive behavior came out of the woodwork, drugs, drinking, sex. Although I would get bored with the sex soon after it started.

The one time I took depakote (with Prozac) I felt immediately dysphoric and awful. You are not the first to suggest it; Dr. Gillman thought it might help when I would take my last dose of parnate I would stay up drinking, chain smoking, on the internet...not sure if this is common reaction to the stimulant or hypomania from the AD...however I always can tell when I'm starting to feel out of control and recognize my behavior is getting extreme. I feel like in a true mania I wouldn't be aware and the episode would last beyond the medicine's half life.

Lithium calms hypomanic tendencies but leaves me detached and demotivated, less crazy feeling than ability though.

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? SLS

Posted by MightyKondrian on August 18, 2017, at 11:28:58

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? MightyKondrian, posted by SLS on August 17, 2017, at 23:55:44

> I like your posting name.
>
> :-)
>
>
> - Scott

Cheers! New phase, new name ;)

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat

Posted by beckett2 on August 19, 2017, at 2:13:26

In reply to Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by porkpiehat on August 16, 2017, at 14:51:19

> I noticed when I was on Celexa that I would develop a formless sense of fear, especially if I was alone on my boat or icefishing. It happened also when I was on effexor and vyvanse, and it is happening now frequently on Parnate.
>
> It stopped when I was not on these. In fact I was able to enjoy my surroundings and these great activities weaning off effexor (some of the anticonvulsants like gabapentin and trileptal also helped with this to some degree).
>
> I don't think this happened at higher doses of these meds, which would zone me out a lot more. I don't think my long-term, low dose klonopin is involved as I was taking it during these downtimes. My Lamictal can have strange effects like making me more obsessive.

Pristiq did this to me. That is, dysphoria and doom at night. Some BP dx? You might trial different stabilizers. Or a combination.

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?

Posted by Lamdage22 on August 19, 2017, at 4:47:11

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? Lamdage22, posted by porkpiehat on August 18, 2017, at 8:50:46

> > I just think that if i had followed my doctors advice with Trazodone it would have landed me in the hospital. They have this habit of always blaming the illness when somebody is in withdrawal.
>
> Can you expand on this? What happened with trazodone (I am currently taking it for sleep on Parnate) I feel happy in the morning and then irritable in the afternoon. Sleep well though

Hi,

i was a bit suicidal for a few days after going from 60mg to 55mg. (About 10 Days after going to 55mg). I am reacting to that by waiting longer before going to 50mg.

If i had gone straight from 75mg to 50mg, like my doctor suggested, it could have been disastrous.


 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?

Posted by SLS on August 20, 2017, at 14:08:12

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 19, 2017, at 4:47:11

Reboxetine made me suicidal with a sense of doom and anxiety. It dissipated within 48 hours of discontinuation.


- Scott

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? SLS

Posted by Porkpiehat on August 21, 2017, at 14:55:44

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by SLS on August 20, 2017, at 14:08:12

> Reboxetine made me suicidal with a sense of doom and anxiety. It dissipated within 48 hours of discontinuation.
>
>
> - Scott

I think you and I both have a trauma background if I remember correctly. Safe to assume that NE drugs will make this worse? Similarly DA drugs in people with bipolar or psychotic tendencies?

I've been having auditory hallucinations the last two mornings. Either someone pounding on the wall or the door to my room.

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?

Posted by pedr on August 21, 2017, at 16:45:55

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by SLS on August 20, 2017, at 14:08:12

> Reboxetine made me suicidal with a sense of doom and anxiety. It dissipated within 48 hours of discontinuation.
>
>
> - Scott

me too. I had obsessive (like every few seconds) suicidal ideation 24x7 for a week, it was astonishing. Went away after I stopped it. Not the nicest experience ever.

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? SLS

Posted by MightyKondrian on August 21, 2017, at 17:02:16

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat, posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 0:11:11

> Nardil feels very much different than Parnate. In my experience, it is more of a mood brightener and can be pro-social. However, mania or hypomania may be a greater risk with Nardil, especially early in treatment. You might need to establish some type of anti-manic coverage, hopefully one that doesn't aggravate depression. Depakote can be a great anti-manic drug, but sometimes leaves one mildly to moderately depressed. Abilify can be a good choice to prevent mania, too. It can also produce some remarkable antidepressant effects when combined with an antidepressant. I know someone who actually did well combining Abilify with Lamictal. I take both drugs in addition to Parnate.
>
> Let me know what your thought are on these things.
>
>
> - Scott

I have an idea I might be BPII as well. Asked my doc last time. He simply replied "maybe, but I'm more concerned with what works for YOU rather than that diagnosis." Fair enough, but I want the diagnosis. It can help me with certain life situations (esp housing). Also should I more than likely need to see a new doc in the future they will most likely treat BPII 'their way'

80% of add-ons often do appear to work initially or within a couple of weeks but they mostly poop out quick-time.

I'm doing surprisingly well on 5mg Abilify right now and for the previous month. Still good day bad day tho. I may well benefit from a mood stabilizer like lamotrigine but I would be interested in adding lithium back in (from 3yrs ago). I've taken lithium on Marplan but never on Nardil.

Its hard making decision when on an MAOI. There are many combinations, but where I would need an MAOI washout before hand. Thats a big step. Last time I did it myself. In future I will ask for a hospital bed. Its hard, I can never take my emotions along to the docs. Usually I've been waiting so long I'm happy the day I see my pdoc or even GP. I think my doc knows this. See him again this coming Thursday.
Hate the way they send you back him just coz u dont say ur suicidal. But saying so you are handing over your rights so it seems.

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?

Posted by MightyKondrian on August 21, 2017, at 17:14:28

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? SLS, posted by MightyKondrian on August 21, 2017, at 17:02:16

A few non-MAOI combos I've read that especially caught my eye are:
fluoxetine & lofepramine
moclobemide and escitalopram
venlafaxine and mirtazepine (rocket fuel)

Another I'd be willing to try is an SSRI (Id favour sertraline) and a noradrenergic like lofepramine or bupropion

All the above taken with a mood stabilizer. Most probably lithium.

 

oops wrong thread (nm)

Posted by MightyKondrian on August 21, 2017, at 17:18:47

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by MightyKondrian on August 21, 2017, at 17:14:28

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? SLS

Posted by porkpiehat on August 23, 2017, at 13:38:11

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by SLS on August 20, 2017, at 14:08:12

I was reading another post and it made me realize that in this state I'm extremely sensitive to noises, like squeaks and rattles in my boat.

For fun this weekend I held off on Lamictal and parnate as long as I could. No rage, no paranoia. I started finding it tough doing simple muscle memory tasks (ordering a pizza, unstrapping my boat, approaching the dock) but I remember this happening If I go all day without lamictal or drop too low.

Eventually for safety sake I took lamictal and started getting angry and resentful with my nephew. I was seething with anger at the incompetence of my buddy. Took the parnate and then in turned to the weird fear and almost psychotic feeling of doom driving home.

Could the lamictal be boosting the dopamine somewhere and causing quasi-psychotic symptoms?

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat

Posted by MightyKondrian on August 23, 2017, at 17:55:05

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? SLS, posted by porkpiehat on August 23, 2017, at 13:38:11

> I was reading another post and it made me realize that in this state I'm extremely sensitive to noises, like squeaks and rattles in my boat.
>
> For fun this weekend I held off on Lamictal and parnate as long as I could. No rage, no paranoia. I started finding it tough doing simple muscle memory tasks (ordering a pizza, unstrapping my boat, approaching the dock) but I remember this happening If I go all day without lamictal or drop too low.
>
> Eventually for safety sake I took lamictal and started getting angry and resentful with my nephew. I was seething with anger at the incompetence of my buddy. Took the parnate and then in turned to the weird fear and almost psychotic feeling of doom driving home.
>
> Could the Lamictal be boosting the dopamine somewhere and causing quasi-psychotic symptoms?

Sorry I have no med suggestions but dont you think its obvious that you need to ditch the Parnate? The Lamictal too. All you say is bad things about both. Are you with a competent Dr?

Mighty-Mouse

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? MightyKondrian

Posted by porkpiehat on August 24, 2017, at 14:10:43

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat, posted by MightyKondrian on August 23, 2017, at 17:55:05


>
> Sorry I have no med suggestions but dont you think its obvious that you need to ditch the Parnate? The Lamictal too. All you say is bad things about both. Are you with a competent Dr?
>
> Mighty-Mouse

That's complicated I probably noted some of the positives in my other posts. Trying everything to make it work before giving up on parnate.

For example, I feel great for an hour after I take the parnate, then exhausted and irritable for the rest of the day.

When I wake up (thanks trazodone) I am still technically "on parnate" and in a fair mood, and can function cognitively. Not suicidal or prone to moments of "hysteria." Social anxiety is improved, I just don't enjoy being around people anymore.

I could live with this part. It's the exhaustion, apathy, irritability that comes after dosing that is untenable.

And unfortunately I don't have a doctor right now. Still looking.

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat

Posted by MightyKondrian on August 24, 2017, at 15:07:57

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? SLS, posted by porkpiehat on August 23, 2017, at 13:38:11


> For fun this weekend I held off on Lamictal and parnate as long as I could. No rage, no paranoia. I started finding it tough doing simple muscle memory tasks (ordering a pizza, unstrapping my boat, approaching the dock) but I remember this happening If I go all day without lamictal or drop too low.
>
> Eventually for safety sake I took lamictal and started getting angry and resentful with my nephew. I was seething with anger at the incompetence of my buddy. Took the parnate and then in turned to the weird fear and almost psychotic feeling of doom driving home.
>
> Could the lamictal be boosting the dopamine somewhere and causing quasi-psychotic symptoms?

You say above that you got angry and resentful at your Nephew!!
Don't u think that's enough to take deep thought into changing your meds?

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? MightyKondrian

Posted by porkpiehat on August 24, 2017, at 18:42:21

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat, posted by MightyKondrian on August 24, 2017, at 15:07:57

>
> > For fun this weekend I held off on Lamictal and parnate as long as I could. No rage, no paranoia. I started finding it tough doing simple muscle memory tasks (ordering a pizza, unstrapping my boat, approaching the dock) but I remember this happening If I go all day without lamictal or drop too low.
> >
> > Eventually for safety sake I took lamictal and started getting angry and resentful with my nephew. I was seething with anger at the incompetence of my buddy. Took the parnate and then in turned to the weird fear and almost psychotic feeling of doom driving home.
> >
> > Could the lamictal be boosting the dopamine somewhere and causing quasi-psychotic symptoms?
>
> You say above that you got angry and resentful at your Nephew!!
> Don't u think that's enough to take deep thought into changing your meds?

Yes. That's why I am here. I think about little else. Maybe that wasn't clear. Ive already found some ways to improve the situation: Trazodone helps with the sleep and, with gabapentin, eases the detachment and apathy for the first part of the day; alpha and beta blockers can help with the anxiety and anger at times.

So maybe there's a way to address the fear, sedation, and irritability without stopping parnate altogether. I was hoping someone would have an idea because prescribers have no experience with the MAOIs


 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat

Posted by SLS on August 24, 2017, at 19:12:36

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? MightyKondrian, posted by porkpiehat on August 24, 2017, at 18:42:21

You must really go through hell when you are without an effective treatment. You are willing to expose yourself to very harsh negative effects of the drugs you are taking. I'm sorry that things are so difficult for you right now.

What were your symptoms before treatment?

I guess the first question is why you are so committed to Parnate?

Why MAOIs?

Have you tried Nardil yet? My guess is that it is more pro-serotonergic than Parnate is. Could your positive response to trazodone reveal a role for serotonin?

Bipolar? Mixed-state? Schizoaffective?

Lamictal (lamotrigine) is not much good for mania or psychosis. Have you ever tried combining Abilify with an antidepressant?

Don't give up.


- Scott

 

I see (nm) porkpiehat

Posted by MightyKondrian on August 26, 2017, at 19:28:14

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? MightyKondrian, posted by porkpiehat on August 24, 2017, at 18:42:21

 

Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? SLS

Posted by MightyKondrian on August 26, 2017, at 19:36:15

In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? porkpiehat, posted by SLS on August 24, 2017, at 19:12:36

> You must really go through hell when you are without an effective treatment. You are willing to expose yourself to very harsh negative effects of the drugs you are taking. I'm sorry that things are so difficult for you right now.
>
> What were your symptoms before treatment?
>
> I guess the first question is why you are so committed to Parnate?
>
> Why MAOIs?
>
> Have you tried Nardil yet? My guess is that it is more pro-serotonergic than Parnate is. Could your positive response to trazodone reveal a role for serotonin?
>
> Bipolar? Mixed-state? Schizoaffective?
>
> Lamictal (lamotrigine) is not much good for mania or psychosis. Have you ever tried combining Abilify with an antidepressant?
>
> Don't give up.
>
>
> - Scott

He could try Marplan. Was on it roughly 12yrs. Never any deep depression, well non much anyway. Easy to ad stuff too. You could even keep ur other meds except Parnat. But done very carefully you can cross-taper. I did that when I switched back from Marplan. Just please tell a doc 1st. Even if you are gonna do it without help just let a qualified dr of what you are doing. If you like i can give yo rough guidance on how i switch but remember I've yet to try Parnate. This was coming off isocarboxazid.

good luck

Mighty


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