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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 49. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by porkpiehat on August 16, 2017, at 14:51:19
I noticed when I was on Celexa that I would develop a formless sense of fear, especially if I was alone on my boat or icefishing. It happened also when I was on effexor and vyvanse, and it is happening now frequently on Parnate.
It stopped when I was not on these. In fact I was able to enjoy my surroundings and these great activities weaning off effexor (some of the anticonvulsants like gabapentin and trileptal also helped with this to some degree).
I don't think this happened at higher doses of these meds, which would zone me out a lot more. I don't think my long-term, low dose klonopin is involved as I was taking it during these downtimes. My Lamictal can have strange effects like making me more obsessive.
Posted by linkadge on August 16, 2017, at 16:25:13
In reply to Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by porkpiehat on August 16, 2017, at 14:51:19
I didn't have this experience with celexa, but I have had it with parnate.
Linkadge
Posted by rjlockhart37 on August 16, 2017, at 17:18:31
In reply to Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by porkpiehat on August 16, 2017, at 14:51:19
mainly stimulating medications, wellbutrin, effexor ... and effexor with vyvanse is bnorephiprhine increase, you feel nervious and just altered feeling similar to it, some people do well with stimulating medications to help them, i do very well, but there have been times when i had reactions from wellbutrin, i think its more for people who are less prone to anxiety
this is not mainly about meds, but there's something called phenibut, it's a over the counter med for anxiety, but if you take more than 2grams, usally they come in 500mg capsules, the withdrawl is very intense, after a long time, you get a primal sense of fear like the highest degree.....i had go through that, it's not harmful but this increase in neurotransmitters.... there's not really much i can do to get help from doctor, i basically just go into the session and say im doing fine and smile because really there's not much else they will do, put on happy smile, then deal with serious issues later
it's all usally associated with elevated epinephrine and norepinephrine levels, need them to lowered to relax, too much is basically fight or flight mode
Posted by rjlockhart37 on August 16, 2017, at 18:00:44
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by rjlockhart37 on August 16, 2017, at 17:18:31
phenibut - this is not really a medicine, it seems more like a supplement and it does ease anxiety pretty well similar to GABA, the withdrawl - this is the thing, if you take this supplement for over week and your taking around 2-4 a day say 2 in morning 2 at night, totaly cut off it makes you have alot of anxiety, and alot of adreinline in your system, this supplement helps anxiety very well, yet it does not do the benzo thing, you really hardly even notice it, but you just notice your back. There's not much harmful effects, its mainly anxiety, it goes away quick after a few days
Posted by SLS on August 16, 2017, at 18:04:39
In reply to Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by porkpiehat on August 16, 2017, at 14:51:19
Is depression your only diagnosis?
Is there any bipolarity involved?
Have you been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder? OCD?
Why Parnate?
What was lamotrigine precribed for?
I'm wondering if adding Depakote or some other mood stabilizer would help. Personally, I am guessing that lamotrigine (Lamictal) increases the excitability of dopamine tracts in the limbic system. It doesn't usually reduce manic states.
Have you ever tried Nardil?
- Scott
Posted by porkpiehat on August 16, 2017, at 21:42:25
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » porkpiehat, posted by SLS on August 16, 2017, at 18:04:39
> Is depression your only diagnosis?
>
> Is there any bipolarity involved?
>
> Have you been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder? OCD?
>
> Why Parnate?
>
> What was lamotrigine precribed for?
>
> I'm wondering if adding Depakote or some other mood stabilizer would help. Personally, I am guessing that lamotrigine (Lamictal) increases the excitability of dopamine tracts in the limbic system. It doesn't usually reduce manic states.
>
> Have you ever tried Nardil?
>
>
> - ScottFunny I've been perplexed about lamictal for a while. We added it to Celexa 12 years ago because it was starting to make me impulsive and drinky. It did help with the cravings, and gave me a sense of agency and drive and thinking about the future that I never had.
It did tend to make my mind work too fast and I lost the ability to concentrate and read. sleep was terrible. Eventually toward the end of this combo it would add to dysphoria and bad ruminations, anger.
A future doctor took me off celexa and all my drive and future aspirations went away. The stillness was nice but soon depression was terrible. A switch of lamictal brands helped the depression and drive until it started to feel out of control and hypomanic. It had physical symptoms and my I started having seizure/panic feelings as soon as I drifted off to sleep and throughout the night.
dropping too low on Lamictal while on nothing else left me useless. I've dropped to 100 since adding the AD's back into the mix.
Dx has been a moving target: Depression/anxiety/paranoia/distraction/attention symptoms...possible BPII or complex trauma/borderline,
On Effexor/Lamictal plus vyvanse or ritalin I could study and accomplish but I developed a sense of malevolence and detachment from humanity almost. I also had these dread issues until I stopped the effexor. I really wondered if I was a psychopath for a while. On parnate I don't feel the malevolence but I do feel detached and uncaring more often than not.
I know I have the ability to feel because it was there before and I started to re-attach to people in between effexor and parnate.
I was hoping that parnate was going to return range of feelings etc but it's somewhat opposite. I am strongly considering switching to nardil b.c I'm already on the MAOI train, but I won't bother if it's just more apathy, sedation, detachment, and sh*t sleep.
Posted by Escapee on August 17, 2017, at 19:11:27
In reply to Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by porkpiehat on August 16, 2017, at 14:51:19
Always read the packet insert. Most psych meds can cause 'anxiety'
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 17, 2017, at 20:39:04
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » porkpiehat, posted by Escapee on August 17, 2017, at 19:11:27
Yes they can make you worse. It happens all the time. If you wish to discontinue you should do 10% steps every 4-6 weeks. Multiply the current dosage times 0.9 until the reductions dont cause any withdrawal symptoms anymore. Then you can stop.
Posted by MightyKondrian on August 17, 2017, at 21:57:45
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 17, 2017, at 20:39:04
> Yes they can make you worse. It happens all the time. If you wish to discontinue you should do 10% steps every 4-6 weeks. Multiply the current dosage times 0.9 until the reductions dont cause any withdrawal symptoms anymore. Then you can stop.
A bit complex and you can hardly tailor a withdrawal just from a question. Can you? Just being cautious like.
Personally I'd run it past my doc 1st, if he/she is the prescriber of course. Just saying.
lol
Posted by SLS on August 17, 2017, at 23:55:44
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » Lamdage22, posted by MightyKondrian on August 17, 2017, at 21:57:45
I like your posting name.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 0:11:11
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » SLS, posted by porkpiehat on August 16, 2017, at 21:42:25
Among other things, you are likely to be BPII.
Nardil feels very much different than Parnate. In my experience, it is more of a mood brightener and can be pro-social. However, mania or hypomania may be a greater risk with Nardil, especially early in treatment. You might need to establish some type of anti-manic coverage, hopefully one that doesn't aggravate depression. Depakote can be a great anti-manic drug, but sometimes leaves one mildly to moderately depressed. Abilify can be a good choice to prevent mania, too. It can also produce some remarkable antidepressant effects when combined with an antidepressant. I know someone who actually did well combining Abilify with Lamictal. I take both drugs in addition to Parnate.
Let me know what your thought are on these things.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2017, at 1:47:33
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » porkpiehat, posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 0:11:11
Unfortunately doctors have much experience with putting people ON medication and not so much OFF medication.
Just saying.
Posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 1:50:09
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2017, at 1:47:33
> Unfortunately doctors have much experience with putting people ON medication and not so much OFF medication.
>
> Just saying.Historically, this has been true. I don't know about now.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2017, at 6:18:32
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 1:50:09
I just think that if i had followed my doctors advice with Trazodone it would have landed me in the hospital. They have this habit of always blaming the illness when somebody is in withdrawal.
Posted by porkpiehat on August 18, 2017, at 8:50:46
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2017, at 6:18:32
> I just think that if i had followed my doctors advice with Trazodone it would have landed me in the hospital. They have this habit of always blaming the illness when somebody is in withdrawal.
Can you expand on this? What happened with trazodone (I am currently taking it for sleep on Parnate) I feel happy in the morning and then irritable in the afternoon. Sleep well though
Posted by porkpiehat on August 18, 2017, at 8:54:21
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » porkpiehat, posted by Escapee on August 17, 2017, at 19:11:27
Posted by porkpiehat on August 18, 2017, at 9:15:04
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » porkpiehat, posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 0:11:11
> Among other things, you are likely to be BPII.
>
> Nardil feels very much different than Parnate. In my experience, it is more of a mood brightener and can be pro-social. However, mania or hypomania may be a greater risk with Nardil, especially early in treatment. You might need to establish some type of anti-manic coverage, hopefully one that doesn't aggravate depression. Depakote can be a great anti-manic drug, but sometimes leaves one mildly to moderately depressed. Abilify can be a good choice to prevent mania, too. It can also produce some remarkable antidepressant effects when combined with an antidepressant. I know someone who actually did well combining Abilify with Lamictal. I take both drugs in addition to Parnate.
>
> Let me know what your thought are on these things.
>
>
> - ScottI think Lamictal might be at the root of some stuff after taking it for 12 years. If nothing else it gives me some sense of having "balls" and not feeling super unwelcome everywhere I go. Other times it makes me so cognitively impaired or self-flagelating.
Did Nardil lift you up to the point of being insensitive and emotionally blunted? Why did you switch to Parnate? Do you have the same daytime sedation on both? Weight gain? Did you wash out between MAOIs?
In my experience Abilify (with low dose celexa I think and lamictal) made me feel detatched until BAM compulsive behavior came out of the woodwork, drugs, drinking, sex. Although I would get bored with the sex soon after it started.
The one time I took depakote (with Prozac) I felt immediately dysphoric and awful. You are not the first to suggest it; Dr. Gillman thought it might help when I would take my last dose of parnate I would stay up drinking, chain smoking, on the internet...not sure if this is common reaction to the stimulant or hypomania from the AD...however I always can tell when I'm starting to feel out of control and recognize my behavior is getting extreme. I feel like in a true mania I wouldn't be aware and the episode would last beyond the medicine's half life.
Lithium calms hypomanic tendencies but leaves me detached and demotivated, less crazy feeling than ability though.
Posted by MightyKondrian on August 18, 2017, at 11:28:58
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » MightyKondrian, posted by SLS on August 17, 2017, at 23:55:44
> I like your posting name.
>
> :-)
>
>
> - ScottCheers! New phase, new name ;)
Posted by beckett2 on August 19, 2017, at 2:13:26
In reply to Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by porkpiehat on August 16, 2017, at 14:51:19
> I noticed when I was on Celexa that I would develop a formless sense of fear, especially if I was alone on my boat or icefishing. It happened also when I was on effexor and vyvanse, and it is happening now frequently on Parnate.
>
> It stopped when I was not on these. In fact I was able to enjoy my surroundings and these great activities weaning off effexor (some of the anticonvulsants like gabapentin and trileptal also helped with this to some degree).
>
> I don't think this happened at higher doses of these meds, which would zone me out a lot more. I don't think my long-term, low dose klonopin is involved as I was taking it during these downtimes. My Lamictal can have strange effects like making me more obsessive.Pristiq did this to me. That is, dysphoria and doom at night. Some BP dx? You might trial different stabilizers. Or a combination.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 19, 2017, at 4:47:11
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » Lamdage22, posted by porkpiehat on August 18, 2017, at 8:50:46
> > I just think that if i had followed my doctors advice with Trazodone it would have landed me in the hospital. They have this habit of always blaming the illness when somebody is in withdrawal.
>
> Can you expand on this? What happened with trazodone (I am currently taking it for sleep on Parnate) I feel happy in the morning and then irritable in the afternoon. Sleep well thoughHi,
i was a bit suicidal for a few days after going from 60mg to 55mg. (About 10 Days after going to 55mg). I am reacting to that by waiting longer before going to 50mg.
If i had gone straight from 75mg to 50mg, like my doctor suggested, it could have been disastrous.
Posted by SLS on August 20, 2017, at 14:08:12
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 19, 2017, at 4:47:11
Reboxetine made me suicidal with a sense of doom and anxiety. It dissipated within 48 hours of discontinuation.
- Scott
Posted by Porkpiehat on August 21, 2017, at 14:55:44
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by SLS on August 20, 2017, at 14:08:12
> Reboxetine made me suicidal with a sense of doom and anxiety. It dissipated within 48 hours of discontinuation.
>
>
> - ScottI think you and I both have a trauma background if I remember correctly. Safe to assume that NE drugs will make this worse? Similarly DA drugs in people with bipolar or psychotic tendencies?
I've been having auditory hallucinations the last two mornings. Either someone pounding on the wall or the door to my room.
Posted by pedr on August 21, 2017, at 16:45:55
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear?, posted by SLS on August 20, 2017, at 14:08:12
> Reboxetine made me suicidal with a sense of doom and anxiety. It dissipated within 48 hours of discontinuation.
>
>
> - Scottme too. I had obsessive (like every few seconds) suicidal ideation 24x7 for a week, it was astonishing. Went away after I stopped it. Not the nicest experience ever.
Posted by MightyKondrian on August 21, 2017, at 17:02:16
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » porkpiehat, posted by SLS on August 18, 2017, at 0:11:11
> Nardil feels very much different than Parnate. In my experience, it is more of a mood brightener and can be pro-social. However, mania or hypomania may be a greater risk with Nardil, especially early in treatment. You might need to establish some type of anti-manic coverage, hopefully one that doesn't aggravate depression. Depakote can be a great anti-manic drug, but sometimes leaves one mildly to moderately depressed. Abilify can be a good choice to prevent mania, too. It can also produce some remarkable antidepressant effects when combined with an antidepressant. I know someone who actually did well combining Abilify with Lamictal. I take both drugs in addition to Parnate.
>
> Let me know what your thought are on these things.
>
>
> - ScottI have an idea I might be BPII as well. Asked my doc last time. He simply replied "maybe, but I'm more concerned with what works for YOU rather than that diagnosis." Fair enough, but I want the diagnosis. It can help me with certain life situations (esp housing). Also should I more than likely need to see a new doc in the future they will most likely treat BPII 'their way'
80% of add-ons often do appear to work initially or within a couple of weeks but they mostly poop out quick-time.
I'm doing surprisingly well on 5mg Abilify right now and for the previous month. Still good day bad day tho. I may well benefit from a mood stabilizer like lamotrigine but I would be interested in adding lithium back in (from 3yrs ago). I've taken lithium on Marplan but never on Nardil.
Its hard making decision when on an MAOI. There are many combinations, but where I would need an MAOI washout before hand. Thats a big step. Last time I did it myself. In future I will ask for a hospital bed. Its hard, I can never take my emotions along to the docs. Usually I've been waiting so long I'm happy the day I see my pdoc or even GP. I think my doc knows this. See him again this coming Thursday.
Hate the way they send you back him just coz u dont say ur suicidal. But saying so you are handing over your rights so it seems.
Posted by MightyKondrian on August 21, 2017, at 17:14:28
In reply to Re: Can meds cause a sense of dread/doom/fear? » SLS, posted by MightyKondrian on August 21, 2017, at 17:02:16
A few non-MAOI combos I've read that especially caught my eye are:
fluoxetine & lofepramine
moclobemide and escitalopram
venlafaxine and mirtazepine (rocket fuel)Another I'd be willing to try is an SSRI (Id favour sertraline) and a noradrenergic like lofepramine or bupropion
All the above taken with a mood stabilizer. Most probably lithium.
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