Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1093563

Shown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by Prefect on December 18, 2016, at 8:28:17

There's a whole new class of anti-depressants that appear to be effective in treating depression and anxiety by increasing norepinepherine and dopamine. Also, people with mental illness tend to self-medicate by being smokers, since nicotine has regulatory effects on the same neurotransmitters.

I've always wondered why not just use nicotine gum, patch, or lozenge to treat mood disorders? It sound like nicotine has been the original Wellbutrin since the start of time. Surely we have more data on effects of nicotine than all these new drugs...

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2016, at 19:49:56

In reply to Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by Prefect on December 18, 2016, at 8:28:17

i use nicotine for mood, i was a heavy smoker for a while and i transfered to the vape, which is more of quick nicotine hit than ciggerettes

people still can use the gum for mood issues, just on their own, nicotine isnt really classified as a medication just like alcohol, it more street available, well-known by many people

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by baseball55 on December 18, 2016, at 20:03:16

In reply to Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by Prefect on December 18, 2016, at 8:28:17

Unlike Wellbutrin, nicotine has an extremely short half-life - one of the reasons it's so addictive. So you have to take it over and over in the course of a day and get cravings if you can't use it for some reason (like being in a meeting and not wanting to chomp on gum or suck lozenges). I'm totally addicted to nicotine gum and have been using it since I stopped smoking 20 years ago. It's a harmless enough habit, since apart from being super-addictive, nicotine is mostly just a mild stimulant.

> There's a whole new class of anti-depressants that appear to be effective in treating depression and anxiety by increasing norepinepherine and dopamine. Also, people with mental illness tend to self-medicate by being smokers, since nicotine has regulatory effects on the same neurotransmitters.
>
> I've always wondered why not just use nicotine gum, patch, or lozenge to treat mood disorders? It sound like nicotine has been the original Wellbutrin since the start of time. Surely we have more data on effects of nicotine than all these new drugs...

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2016, at 20:11:49

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by baseball55 on December 18, 2016, at 20:03:16

i've been on the vape for about 2 years but i've been worrying about the effects on the lungs, popcorn lunch is a big worry for me (popcorn lung is the substance inside the vape fluids and can cause the lungs to plug up)

but too much nicotine is not pleasant, for some people dose depedent on a drug, nicotine is not pleasant at all at higher doses, it actually is poison at higher doses, but like 1 cigarette, or 2 nicorette gums will produce a mild improvement on mood but it ends very quick, less than 30min. Short half life, that's why chain smoker always has to have cigarettes by their side......i was a chain smoker nearly 7 years but it made me smell like cigarette smoke even wtih cologne

but the gum is much safer than ciggerettes or the vape

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2016, at 20:14:10

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2016, at 20:11:49

popcorn lung*

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by Prefect on December 18, 2016, at 20:29:00

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2016, at 20:14:10

Hmm...I'm really tempted now. lol. Even as a test. If it makes me feel better then it's a sign I should switch form Luvox to a SNRI / dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2016, at 21:46:25

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by Prefect on December 18, 2016, at 20:29:00

nicotine is safest through the gum/lounge i don't want to ever encourage people to smoke, it's only their preference and it has health hazerds that are delayed but they will eventually will catch up after years, lung health deteriorates and you always have a tabacoo smoke smell people will notice

please don't smoke, use the nicotine gum, it's best for health.....when your mad or having a bad time, chew 1 nicotine gum....they have different strengths, 2mg and 4mg, but remember too much nicotine will be dysphoric, stay only with 2-4mg for every hour..... nicotine is not more dosage increases in mood, only small doses

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2016, at 22:01:58

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2016, at 21:46:25

if your just starting, first i don't want to encourage using nicotine, because in way it is antoher chemical that could add to depedency, but it does have postive effect on some aspects on mood and thinking, but first don't start at 2mg, i take that back.... start at 1....4mg is for heavy smokers that are trying to quit, like 2-3 packs a day, if you chewed that you would be so irrtible and off wired, feel terrible and dysyphoric have increase side effect, it would not be a good... stay with 1mg of nicotine louge if you ever do decide to try it...

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders? rjlockhart37

Posted by Prefect on December 19, 2016, at 20:25:10

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2016, at 22:01:58

I appreciate your concern and assure you I will not start smoking.

20 years ago, I had already been a pack a day smoker for 6 years up to that point, over the course of a week or so went to the dentist a couple of times (root canals and a porcelain on metal alloy bridge), also ate some bad fish that made me sick one night, and then suddenly I went from a normal 27 year old to having cognitive problems, severe anxiety, night sweats, balance problems, dizziness, unrestful sleep, confusional awakenings from REM sleep, you name it.

Tests showed I had liver enzymes high enough for viral hepatitis or poisoning. I had ingested no poison and tested negative for all hep viruses. And I had no jaundice.

That week I also quit smoking due to what was happening.

The enzymes went back to normal after a few months, but I never did. SInce then I have suffered from anxiety/panic and occasional mental fog.

Mitochondrial damage from an unknown virus or toxic exposure? Who knows.

But lately I've also wondered if quitting smoking that week may have played a part in the whole equation? Maybe the severe nicotine withdrawal didn't help? Maybe my norepinpherine / dopamine receptors never recovered?

My head has just not felt the same for the last 20 years.

The nicotine gum is still a last resort. I'm still playing with vitamines and supplements. But this last relapse is making me feel a little desperate.

Thanks.

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by rjlockhart37 on December 19, 2016, at 20:54:52

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders? rjlockhart37, posted by Prefect on December 19, 2016, at 20:25:10

When a cigarette is smoked, nicotine-rich blood passes from the lungs to the brain within seven seconds and immediately stimulates nicotinic acetylcholine receptors; this indirectly promotes the release of many chemical messengers such as acetylcholine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, arginine vasopressin, serotonin, dopamine, and beta-endorphin in parts of the brain.[27][28] Nicotine also extends the duration of positive effects of dopamine and increases the sensitivity of the brain's reward system to rewarding stimuli.[29][30] Most cigarettes contain 13 milligrams of inhalable nicotine.[31] Studies suggest that when smokers wish to achieve a stimulating effect, they take short quick puffs, which produce a low level of blood nicotine.[32]" - wikipedia source

that's just a quick reference about it's mechanism of action, nicotine does produce pleasure, but it's not very potent compared to opiates, and methamphetamine which largely influence the dopamine/reward/pleasure center's in the brain
____

but have they still done blood tests again to see for abnormalties currently?

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders? rjlockhart37

Posted by Prefect on December 19, 2016, at 21:21:43

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 19, 2016, at 20:54:52

Yes, yearly blood tests, no elevated liver enzymes, nothing's been abnormal for 20 years.

Originally my cognitive symptoms were so severe they diagnosed me with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Over the years I've discounted this diagnosis, because I regularly exercise no problem (this excludes CFS by DSM criteria).

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders? Prefect

Posted by alexandra_k on December 28, 2016, at 22:07:02

In reply to Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by Prefect on December 18, 2016, at 8:28:17

Because it's not under patent for such things so there isn't money to be made.

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by alexandra_k on December 28, 2016, at 22:14:42

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders? rjlockhart37, posted by Prefect on December 19, 2016, at 21:21:43

I think my personality changed when I quit smoking. Something changed in me, for sure.

But then, I guess something had to change in me in order for me to quit smoking, so it is hard to say what occurred first.

I became supersensitive to a bunch of things. Felt to me like nicotine had served to dampen or kill my response to a bunch of irritants... Or... Had served as a fixation point. I could pinpoint smoking as the source of all my harms / ills / hurts...

When I quit smoking a bunch of things started to irritate me whereas prior to that... Smoking was the greatest source of irritation in my life.

I became irritated by noises around me, smells, etc... It was like my senses woke up.

I suppose there might be a rebound period where things are hyper-sensitised...

But really... I think it was a wake-up call for me. I figured... My environment... Lots of aspects of my environment... Weren't working for me. The environment needed to change in order for me to be a happy healthy functional person...

Sometimes people don't seem to know what is good for them. Or... They don't think they have the power to obtain it... Or... They can't face it for whatever reason. Maybe it is different for you... But smoking was some kind of a mask for me. It was also... Blaming myself for things. Everything was bad because I smoked. Now... I externalise a great deal more.

Maybe it's unrealistic or delusional or something. But really my greatest peace has been in coming to think that... That's just what other people have encouraged me to believe because I'm more controllable when I'm being kicked down. Really...

It has helped me come to peace.

Smoking... Well, it's sort of like a sugar addiction on your mood. Predictable high and then predictable low 20 minutes later. It's a way of dulling or numbing yourself to your environment. Internal control over it all. Unaffected by the world. Out of touch with it. Removed. Non-responsive to it. Which... Depending on your environment (and power to affect change to it) might be prefereable....

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by Tony P on January 5, 2017, at 0:29:49

In reply to Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by Prefect on December 18, 2016, at 8:28:17

Not as powerful as the new generation ADs, and as someone said, not enough money to be made from it.

As a smoker (also suffering from major depression), trying to avoid the first-thing-in-the-morning smoke, I started taking a 4-mg nicotine lozenge immediately on waking and found it gave significant relief from the early morning blues. Non-smokers should use a lower dose.

It's worth noting that tobacco SMOKE contains other psychologically active chemicals, notably harmaline alkaloids, which are MAOI antidepressants. This may partly account for the limited success of NRT (nicotine replacement therapy) in quitting smoking.

My counselor once remarked that [in medical doses] nicotine is one of the safest drugs around, so by all means experiment with NRT for depression. For technical details of the effects of nicotine, see wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine.

In my experience, lozenges are the safest form, leading to the least risk of addiction. Inhalers work faster but are a bit more addictive. The spray (Nicorette quick-mist) is VERY fast acting, and in my experience quite addictive - best avoided.

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?

Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2017, at 15:15:08

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by rjlockhart37 on December 18, 2016, at 20:11:49

Oh yeah, nicotine is the safest drug out there. It only causes millions people to kill themselves with cigarettes. Way to go, dr-bob.org!


 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders? Lamdage22

Posted by Tony P on January 6, 2017, at 16:08:25

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2017, at 15:15:08

> Oh yeah, nicotine is the safest drug out there. It only causes millions people to kill themselves with cigarettes. Way to go, dr-bob.org!
>
I said, "in medical doses nicotine is one of the safest drugs around", according to one professional. That *doesn't* mean smoking, it means NRT prescribed by a dr pharm etc. The thread is about nicotine gum (& similar supplements) not smoking, which I would never recommend.

Please excuse slight flame, must be too much coffee.

 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders? Tony P

Posted by alexandra_k on January 15, 2017, at 14:32:14

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by Tony P on January 5, 2017, at 0:29:49

> It's worth noting that tobacco SMOKE contains other psychologically active chemicals, notably harmaline alkaloids, which are MAOI antidepressants. This may partly account for the limited success of NRT (nicotine replacement therapy) in quitting smoking.

That is interesting to me. I had wondered why I had so much trouble quitting smoking when I was as liberal as I cared to be with all my nicotine replacement therapies. I thought that there must be something different - something even more addictive than nicotine, even, in the smoking delivery method, particularly.

Alkaloids, you say?


 

Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders? alexandra_k

Posted by Tony P on August 2, 2017, at 1:30:31

In reply to Re: Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders? Tony P, posted by alexandra_k on January 15, 2017, at 14:32:14

Harmaline in tobacco smoke, an MAOI used in certain native entheogen preparations such as ayahusca (sp?) MAY have an effect -- I believe the quantity is small. Now I've studied more about nicotine, I've learned it has many effects, including on the Dopamine "pleasure" centre. Nevertheless, there is _something_ about smoking (particularly pipe-smoking, which is my bag) that is distinctly different from nicotine as NRT.

 

This could be why nicotine gum isn't used for mood

Posted by PleaseReplaceBattery on October 19, 2017, at 6:11:26

In reply to Why isn't nicotine gum used for mood disorders?, posted by Prefect on December 18, 2016, at 8:28:17

I have been chewing nicotine gum for about six years. I never smoked.
Originally, I started taking it to help with chronic (continuous and severe) ear-aches. I read about nicotine gum easing ear-aches on a friendly site similar to this one. It helps a tiny bit with the ear-aches, and I was really desperate for some relief from something other than strong pain killers.
Remember, Nicotine is very addictive. I started on a very low dose and my consumption grew over the years. My dose was about four mg./day to start. Six years later, I get about sixty mg/day. I roll them up in a stick of regular gum and gnaw away. If I run out, I am aware of the physical addiction.
It turns out that taking oral nicotine over a long period of time can raise your cholesterol levels significantly. I am not sure how it stacks up to the effect smokers suffer, but my doctor made crazy-eyes and blurted out, That cant be right. while looking at my blood tests. I have no personal history or family history of high cholesterol.
My doctor didnt make the connection; he put me on atorvastatin and ordered more tests. I found a couple studies about oral nicotine& cholesterol while doing other research on my medication. The atorvastatin is giving me side effects (nasty headaches, gastric problems, etc.). I would love to get off of them a.s.a.p.
So I tapered my nicotine consumption down over a couple weeks. I am down to twelve mg./day and I get about 50% of the ear-relief of the sixty mg. dosage. If my cholesterol plummets after a month, Ill stay the low dosage. If not, I plan to end the nicotine entirely, get some stronger pain killers, and see if that helps.
Presumably, the manufacturers could get oral nicotine approved to stop smoking, but a long term use would run them into problems in a clinical study.


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