Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1080121

Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Methylene blue for depression?

Posted by pleuraleffusion on June 30, 2015, at 20:48:46

Hi, this is a first post but I'm a veteran lurker. At my wits end, hoping I can get some advice, even bad advice is preferred over none. I'm one of those people that is simply so floridly f*ck*d in the head that even my pdoc won't take my money anymore.

I'm psychotically depressed but can't really tolerate antidepressants. Most ADs totally preclude sleep for days, even ADs with low side effect burdens like lamictal and the SSRIs. Hence, I've turned to "alternative" treatments.

I came across this article speculating that "depression is essentially a disease of synaptic wear-and-tear" and that methylene blue can help rescue some of the cognitive deficits associated with depression.

I would love some feedback about whether the aforementioned claims are complete bunk or have a basis in reality.

TLDR: has anyone heard of methylene blue being used to treat depression?

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression?

Posted by GingerbeerBloke on June 30, 2015, at 21:13:08

In reply to Methylene blue for depression?, posted by pleuraleffusion on June 30, 2015, at 20:48:46

> Hi, this is a first post but I'm a veteran lurker. At my wits end, hoping I can get some advice, even bad advice is preferred over none. I'm one of those people that is simply so floridly f*ck*d in the head that even my pdoc won't take my money anymore.
>
> I'm psychotically depressed but can't really tolerate antidepressants. Most ADs totally preclude sleep for days, even ADs with low side effect burdens like lamictal and the SSRIs. Hence, I've turned to "alternative" treatments.
>
> I came across this article speculating that "depression is essentially a disease of synaptic wear-and-tear" and that methylene blue can help rescue some of the cognitive deficits associated with depression.
>
> I would love some feedback about whether the aforementioned claims are complete bunk or have a basis in reality.
>
> TLDR: has anyone heard of methylene blue being used to treat depression?

If you are psychotic-depression, why are you being treated with SSRIs?
have you tried any out of these drugs?
-Amisulpride
-Combo of a tricyclic and aap
-Symbyax
-If you can't tolerate Antipsychotics, then maybe Amoxapine? it has milder antipsychotic action

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression?

Posted by GingerbeerBloke on June 30, 2015, at 21:28:35

In reply to Re: Methylene blue for depression?, posted by GingerbeerBloke on June 30, 2015, at 21:13:08

> > Hi, this is a first post but I'm a veteran lurker. At my wits end, hoping I can get some advice, even bad advice is preferred over none. I'm one of those people that is simply so floridly f*ck*d in the head that even my pdoc won't take my money anymore.
> >
> > I'm psychotically depressed but can't really tolerate antidepressants. Most ADs totally preclude sleep for days, even ADs with low side effect burdens like lamictal and the SSRIs. Hence, I've turned to "alternative" treatments.
> >
> > I came across this article speculating that "depression is essentially a disease of synaptic wear-and-tear" and that methylene blue can help rescue some of the cognitive deficits associated with depression.
> >
> > I would love some feedback about whether the aforementioned claims are complete bunk or have a basis in reality.
> >
> > TLDR: has anyone heard of methylene blue being used to treat depression?
>
> If you are psychotic-depression, why are you being treated with SSRIs?
> have you tried any out of these drugs?
> -Amisulpride
> -Combo of a tricyclic and aap
> -Symbyax
> -If you can't tolerate Antipsychotics, then maybe Amoxapine? it has milder antipsychotic action

Low dose loxapine can also act similar to AAPs, maybe searching for these drugs, on babble or crazymeds or other sites with the term psychotic depression might help you come up with useful advice.

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression?

Posted by Christ_empowered on June 30, 2015, at 23:28:09

In reply to Re: Methylene blue for depression?, posted by GingerbeerBloke on June 30, 2015, at 21:28:35

yeah...I've had psychotic depression...take meds, please. Amoxapine is still a go to medication for psychotic depression, I think.

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression?

Posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 2:54:24

In reply to Re: Methylene blue for depression?, posted by Christ_empowered on June 30, 2015, at 23:28:09

Luvox (fluvoxamine) monotherapy is an option. Its ability to antagonize sigma-1 receptors is unique among serotonin reuptake inhibitors. Stay away from Zoloft (sertraline). It stimulates sigma-1 receptors, which can make psychotic depression worse.

http://www.annals-general-psychiatry.com/content/9/1/23

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/understanding-role-sigma-1-receptors-psychotic-depression

I am not aware of there being a general contraindication of taking an SSRI for psychotic depression. Perhaps someone can provide more information regarding this.

Combining a SSRI with a AAP yields better results than using a AAP alone. Of course, Zoloft might be best avoided, despite its use in some studies.


- Scott

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression? pleuraleffusion

Posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 2:58:30

In reply to Methylene blue for depression?, posted by pleuraleffusion on June 30, 2015, at 20:48:46

Hi.

I'm glad you decided to post.

I know methylene blue has been used to treat depression. It is not a completely preposterous idea. I have not tried it personally, and I don't know for what type of depression it is best used for.

Sorry I couldn't help.


- Scott

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression? SLS

Posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 6:28:02

In reply to Re: Methylene blue for depression? pleuraleffusion, posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 2:58:30

> Hi.
>
> I'm glad you decided to post.
>
> I know methylene blue has been used to treat depression. It is not a completely preposterous idea. I have not tried it personally, and I don't know for what type of depression it is best used for.
>
> Sorry I couldn't help.
>
>
> - Scott

MB has been trialed as a treatment for bi-polar depression:

Alda, M, Methylene blue for residual symptoms and for cognitive dysfunction in bipolar disorder: results of a double‐blind trial. 2011.

In vitro, MB is an extremely potent MAOI. It has been proven beyond reasonable doubt to have been the causative agent in human fatalities linked to serotonin syndrome (induced by the co-administration of SSRIs or SRIs).

Instead of going for MB, why not start with a conventional MAOI? What therapeutic advantage does MB have over parnate or nardil? Even if it has a theoretical advantage, you would probably have more success with your doctor by proposing to trial a conventional MAOI before you even think of MB.

Good luck.

More (very thorough) info:

http://www.psychotropical.com/methylene-blue

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression?

Posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 7:13:45

In reply to Re: Methylene blue for depression? SLS, posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 6:28:02

> > Hi.
> >
> > I'm glad you decided to post.
> >
> > I know methylene blue has been used to treat depression. It is not a completely preposterous idea. I have not tried it personally, and I don't know for what type of depression it is best used for.
> >
> > Sorry I couldn't help.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> MB has been trialed as a treatment for bi-polar depression:
>
> Alda, M, Methylene blue for residual symptoms and for cognitive dysfunction in bipolar disorder: results of a double‐blind trial. 2011.
>
> In vitro, MB is an extremely potent MAOI. It has been proven beyond reasonable doubt to have been the causative agent in human fatalities linked to serotonin syndrome (induced by the co-administration of SSRIs or SRIs).
>
> Instead of going for MB, why not start with a conventional MAOI? What therapeutic advantage does MB have over parnate or nardil? Even if it has a theoretical advantage, you would probably have more success with your doctor by proposing to trial a conventional MAOI before you even think of MB.
>
> Good luck.
>
> More (very thorough) info:
>
> http://www.psychotropical.com/methylene-blue

If the author is accurate in his assays and conclusions, methylene-blue might be the best MAO inhibitor for me. I have had experience with a potent and selective MAO-A inhibitor named clorgyline. To date, clorgyline has been the most potent MAOI drug for me. Unfortunately, this former investigational drug is no longer available for human consumption.


- Scott

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression?

Posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 14:10:53

In reply to Re: Methylene blue for depression?, posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 7:13:45

> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > I'm glad you decided to post.
> > >
> > > I know methylene blue has been used to treat depression. It is not a completely preposterous idea. I have not tried it personally, and I don't know for what type of depression it is best used for.
> > >
> > > Sorry I couldn't help.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > MB has been trialed as a treatment for bi-polar depression:
> >
> > Alda, M, Methylene blue for residual symptoms and for cognitive dysfunction in bipolar disorder: results of a double‐blind trial. 2011.
> >
> > In vitro, MB is an extremely potent MAOI. It has been proven beyond reasonable doubt to have been the causative agent in human fatalities linked to serotonin syndrome (induced by the co-administration of SSRIs or SRIs).
> >
> > Instead of going for MB, why not start with a conventional MAOI? What therapeutic advantage does MB have over parnate or nardil? Even if it has a theoretical advantage, you would probably have more success with your doctor by proposing to trial a conventional MAOI before you even think of MB.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > More (very thorough) info:
> >
> > http://www.psychotropical.com/methylene-blue
>
> If the author is accurate in his assays and conclusions, methylene-blue might be the best MAO inhibitor for me. I have had experience with a potent and selective MAO-A inhibitor named clorgyline. To date, clorgyline has been the most potent MAOI drug for me. Unfortunately, this former investigational drug is no longer available for human consumption.

I am somewhat disappointed to learn that methylene blue is a reversible rather than irreversible inhibitor of MAO-A.


- Scott

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression?

Posted by bleauberry on July 6, 2015, at 10:27:09

In reply to Methylene blue for depression?, posted by pleuraleffusion on June 30, 2015, at 20:48:46

Classic.

Thank you for your post! By classic I meant that this happens all too often but shouldn't. There are answers for you, and it seems highly unfair and sad that the establishment medical community does not have those answers despite all the money and expertise. Money goes to the wrong research, and expertise is limited to what fits in a predetermined box.

The post you wrote, looks about exactly what I would have wrote about 5 years ago, or 10, 15, 20, 25.... I have come a long way and learned so much I find it almost staggering and overwhelming how out of touch medicine is with reality. They seem to do great in some areas....cancer genetic research for example...miracle operations such as Shriner's...but in most other areas they are huge voids of lack of wisdom, knowledge, logic, and even common sense......diabetes comes to mind, depression and all other psychiatric labels come to mind, on and on, you can make a list of your own I'm sure.

Ever heard of Lyme Disease? Does that disease mess with the brain's mood center? Could it cause depression or psychosis? Could it be totally undiagnosable by today's methods?

The answer to all of the above is yes. Maybe not lyme. Maybe some other bacteria. There are a handful of bad guys like lyme that can ruin your life and yet stay stealth that no one suspects they exist. Lyme is by far the most common....only 1 out of 10 people with it are diagnosed. The rest....are in the psychiatrist's office!

So what did I see in your post that steered my thinking this way?

1. It's been a really long time....chronic.
2. There is medication sensitivity involved (there is an infection reason for that, it is not just some bizarre unexplainable sensitivity)
3. The total inability of modern medicine to help.

Put those together, and you have just described millions of people diagnosed with chronic lyme disease.

I would venture a guess you have plenty of other symptoms. Arthritis, pains, sleep issues, brain fog issues, skin issues, eating issues, on and on, any or any combination....
Yes? No? I bet if we take inventory from your head to your toes, you create a list of symptoms, some you have had so long you accept as normal....

Ok so where to go? Alternative supplements is appropriate at this time. That's because if you are as sick as I suspect you are, any sort of antibiotics would simply hit you too hard. The die off would likely feel like a nuclear bomb. Herxheimer reaction severe. Herbs offer a gentle yet effective way to start pushing back and reclaim your body.

Here are some primary tools you should have everyday, assuming my suspicions here are correct or close to correct.

1. Resveratrol (be sure on the ingredient label it is made from Polygonum Cupsidatum which is Japaneses Knotweed, don't get the kind made from grapes. This is one of the world's miracle substances, but for anti-infection needs to be not from grapes.
Anti-inflammation, pro-immune, nervous system calming, antibacterial broad spectrum, anti viral, anti fungal.

2. Berberine. Thorne research makes it, or a version specifically for lyme from Dr Zhang MD in New York called Coptis root, or my favorite called Phyto-biotic ordered online from iHerb.

3. 5000+ vitamin D per day.

4. Vitamin C to bowel tolerance (gets runny if take too much)

There is plenty more as well. These are just some of the most important things to get started with.

I had two LLMDs in my journey (Lyme Literate MDs). Both of them told me the same thing.....most of their new patients have been suffering a very long time, have not had any answers, and have been unsuccessfully treated by a wide variety of drugs and MDs for their psychiatric symptoms....which are almost universal in lyme or infection populations. And, most of those patients improve psychiatrically so much with antibiotic treatment that they can either reduce their meds significantly or get off of them completely because they are no longer needed.

Want to know more? Healing Lyme, by Stephen Buhner, goes into great detail....applies to a lot more than just Lyme. Online there is also great help....Maryland lyme md blog is amazing....and on Facebook I see ads all the time for special Lyme treatments or education.

When I started treatment most of this stuff was very new. But now it has become more commonly known. Pretty much, every psychiatric basket case who has no options, who fits the description of chronic lyme despite no exposure to ticks, who has been on many meds, and now very sensitive to meds and some foods, and MDs can't seem to help at all....almost all of these people improve remarkably or totally with antibiotic and anti inflammation and anti-toxicity strategies.

The bacteria have poop, pee, and enzymes that go to the brain and have affinity for opioid, serotonin, and dopamine receptors, in addition to giving false instructions to the pituitary gland and the adrenal glands and testosterone.....so yeah, you can see how all this would cause a psychotic depression untreatable by psych meds.

Just someting to think about and hopefully save your life. I just wanted you to know.....THERE IS TONS OF HOPE! You've just received treatment from the wrong people, is all.

Any way to test for Lyme? Well, chronic usually comes up negative. The tests are based on antibodies, but there are no antibodies, because the bacteria turns that part of the immune system off. Western Blot from Igenex Labs or Stonybrook Labs are the most accurate but still not perfect. Negative tests can turn positive after a short course of antibiotics (killed them, immune system recognized them, and now we have antibodies!).
But mostly, it is a clinical diagnosis....put together all the clues looking for a consistent picture. Low vitamin D is very common and easy to test for. If yours is low, then my suspicions here become closer to fact than suspicion.

LLMDs have other special markers they look for to help make the diagnosis. But basically, to anyone who knows this game from the doctor's view or the patient's view, you are according to your post just like every other Lymie before you, no different in any way....except that you haven't been treated in any meaningful way.

The methylene blue....I don't know anything about it....but no, you don't want another substance in your body because it will just be seen as more toxicity....and who knows where the sensitivity thing goes with that. But the theory behind it....is pretty accurate in the way it described the damage at the synapse and such....that's the damage the infection and its toxic substances do....it goes away when their population levels are brought way down low. Low enough to not have symptoms any more.

I truly hope this helps. It so breaks my heart. I hope God will bless you!

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression?

Posted by phidippus on July 14, 2015, at 20:38:47

In reply to Re: Methylene blue for depression?, posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 2:54:24

>Luvox (fluvoxamine) monotherapy is an option. Its ability to antagonize sigma-1 receptors is unique among serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

Luvox is an agonist at this receptor and has the highest affinity of any SSRI for doing so.

Luvox has been used as monotherapy for psychotic depression.

Eric

 

Re: Methylene blue for depression?

Posted by SLS on July 14, 2015, at 20:57:55

In reply to Re: Methylene blue for depression?, posted by phidippus on July 14, 2015, at 20:38:47

> >Luvox (fluvoxamine) monotherapy is an option. Its ability to antagonize sigma-1 receptors is unique among serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
>
> Luvox is an agonist at this receptor and has the highest affinity of any SSRI for doing so.
>
> Luvox has been used as monotherapy for psychotic depression.
>
> Eric

Yes. I was wrong. I got mixed up and misspoke. You'll probably find the post where I mentioned Zoloft as being a sigma-1 agonist. I think I corrected that one. If not, please do.

Thanks.


- Scott


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