Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1075804

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Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 15:57:25

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 15:36:53

Also yes and I had to discontinue due to rage/extreme appitite and gaining 20lbs in the span of 2 weeks

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:02:11

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 15:54:53

>I wonder if the biaxin or minocycline could be behind some of my current memory issues.

According to studies, minocycline improves memory.

Why are you taking Biaxin?

>Do you say lamictal May effect memory from personal experience or from studies.

About 3% of Lamictal users will experience some form of memory impairment. There are a lot of case reports on the web and I experienced it myself.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:05:20

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 15:57:25

You really need serotogenic therapy. Have you tried Effexor? According to the algorithm for the treatment of ocd put out by the APA, Effexor is recommended when ssris fail.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:06:56

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:02:11

I tested positive for borellia, bartonella, babes is and still have very high levels of igg for mycoplasma p. So I figured why not cover all the bases as I'm desperate and try antibiotics for those. And that's to bad, I presume it was short term memory?

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:08:12

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 15:57:25

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2008/0701/p131.html - here's APA treatment algorithm.

Have you been on an MAOI?

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:13:13

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:06:56

While your on the antibiotic tip, you should read up on D-cycloserine.

Also, I bet Keppra would be more effective for your OCD than Lamictal.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:14:05

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:06:56

>I presume it was short term memory?

Yes sir.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:25:52

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:08:12

No havnt tried a maoi, looked at parnate a little but the insomnia seemed intense. And as for effexor I have heard too many horror stories about that, and my experiences with douloxetine was awful, extreme exacerbation in tics and near paralyzing anxiety/ocd thoughts. Other than ssri which the DNA test said don't look to promising there's really only mirtazipine nefazadone trazadone and then ones not approved by the fda I would have to order without a prescription. And none of those seem to do much for ocd that I know of.

I have heard of keppra, what makes you think it would be better? From what I have read it can induce anxiety/irratibility quite commonly.

Have wondered about d cycloserine, have not been able to find any reviews of it so have never really gotten the desire to peruse it, and most docs don't know about it.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:42:45

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:25:52

>looked at parnate a little but the insomnia seemed intense

Nardil is the only MAOI I've read substantive stuff on regarding OCD.

>I have heard of keppra, what makes you think it would be better? From what I have read it can induce anxiety/irratibility quite commonly.

I've taken it and it nearly obliterated my anxiety. Stanford did a study but they haven't published the results yet. Its a powerful glutamate antagonist(much more powerful than Lamictal) and yes it CAN cause anxiety as a side effect and Keppra rage is infamous but usually easily treated with B6 supplements.

Maybe Tramadol might work for you.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:49:22

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 17:42:45

That's neat I was actually thinking of pursuing keppra but was put off by the rage aspect. Did it help your ocd? What about the sexual s/e or memory cognition effects? And yea nardil is a thought, would reap havoc on my ocd though with it's side effects haha. Wonder if it would have more of an effect than ssri due to it's different moa.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 18:12:08

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 17:49:22

>Did it help your ocd? What about the sexual s/e or memory cognition effects?

Keppra helped my OCD immensely - it short circuited the anxiety the OCD caused. I would have an OCD thought and would have no anxiety about the thought. I would still be taking it but I don't need it since starting the Luvox.

I had no side effects from the Keppra.

>Wonder if it would have more of an effect than ssri due to it's different moa.

MAOIs are not tried and tested when it comes to treating OCD. I don't know if it would be more effective than an SSRI.

REALLY...Try Tramadol.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 19:59:25

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 24, 2015, at 18:12:08

Yea I tried to order it once but caught the guys in the act scamming our card, and I think it just became a narcotic in the USA so you can't anymore, not sure if I could get it prescribed anymore, looks really good though, I know when I had morphine for menningitis in the hospital my ocd vanished. And as for maoi's I wonder for me, since my sert transporters are already not very active, if decreasing the rate of te breakdown of serotonin would effect my ocd more than blocking an already blocked sert.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 25, 2015, at 11:12:16

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 24, 2015, at 19:59:25

Tramadol is terrific for OCD as it works in three different fashions which are beneficial in treating OCD. It is an NMDA antagonist. It is an opiate and it is a weak SNRI. It worked for me as monotherapy.

I don't think your SERT is blocked already. What makes you think that?

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 25, 2015, at 11:50:01

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by phidippus on February 25, 2015, at 11:12:16

Not that it's blacked, but my genetic testing showed it's already under active, enough so that it's a gene associated with low responses to ssris. Which would also mean theoretically I may have more seritonin than usual and that seritonin isn't the main problem. I have heard of people getting addicted to tramadol, and that it only helps ocd for a little while then tolerance builds like most opiates, slightly worrying, but nonetheless still an option

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on February 25, 2015, at 16:58:31

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 25, 2015, at 11:50:01

>Which would also mean theoretically I may have more seritonin

If you have OCD, you certainly don't have 'more' serotonin.

>I have heard of people getting addicted to tramadol

This puzzles me, because Tramadol is about as strong as codeine, which is not commonly abused. Also, the mechanism of action most likely to be helping with the OCD is its SNRI properties.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by ed_uk2010 on February 25, 2015, at 18:50:53

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 25, 2015, at 11:50:01

>Not that it's blocked, but my genetic testing showed it's already under active, enough so that it's a gene associated with low responses to ssris. Which would also mean theoretically I may have more seritonin than usual and that seritonin isn't the main problem.

If your brain has developed from birth with an underactive serotonin reuptake system, it may have adapted to this in some way, perhaps by reducing serotonin release or receptor sensitivity.

>I have heard of people getting addicted to tramadol, and that it only helps ocd for a little while then tolerance builds like most opiates

It has a high potential for physical dependence and withdrawal symptoms. It was originally introduced as a med with little risk of dependence, and doctors prescribed it widely. Unfortunately, the dependence risk had been underestimated. It has recently been made a controlled drug over here. Given your issues with opiates in the past, it cannot really be recommended for you.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on February 26, 2015, at 14:16:23

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82, posted by ed_uk2010 on February 25, 2015, at 18:50:53

Is it normal to become very irritable/ angry on this med? I seem to get extremly annoyed / mad at anything and have urges to just break things out of annoyance/irritability.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by ed_uk2010 on February 26, 2015, at 16:48:17

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 26, 2015, at 14:16:23

>Is it normal to become very irritable/ angry on this med?

On Lamictal? Most people do not experience that, but I have certainly heard of it before.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Hugh on March 3, 2015, at 13:00:00

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on February 26, 2015, at 14:16:23

Dr. James Greenblatt, a Boston-area psychiatrist, had a puzzling case: a teenager arrived in his office with severe obsessivecompulsive disorder (OCD), as well as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and an array of digestive problems.

"Mary's parents had been running around for many years and she'd had a poor response to medicine," said Greenblatt, founder of Comprehensive Psychiatric Resources Inc. in Waltham, Mass. "When a patient doesn't respond, that's a red flag."

Greenblatt first did a simple urine test for the metabolite HPHPA, the chemical byproduct of the clostridia bacteria, and found that it was elevated. He put her on a course of high-powered probiotics to boost her good bacteria, followed by antibiotics, and her levels began to "dramatically" go down, he said.

After six months, Mary's symptoms began to disappear. And by a year, they were gone. Today, three years later, Mary is a senior in high school and has no sign of either mental disorder.

Greenblatt said he had treated hundreds of patients for dysbiosis, a condition of microbial imbalances on or inside the body. "It's a more common scenario than we know," he said.

Scientists are so far unable to identify every strain of bacteria, but they can test for the chemical byproducts that they produce, according to Greenblatt.

He said he checks every patient for HPHPA with a simple organic acid urine test before moving ahead with medications to treat symptoms.

"Eight out of 10 people are fine," he said. "But in the two patients where it's elevated, it can have profound effects on the nervous system."

"I don't know why this test isn't done on every psychiatric patient," he said. 'I question that every day."

HPHPA causes deactivation of an enzyme so that dopamine cannot be converted to the neurotransmitter neuroepinephrine, Greenblatt said, and that causes a build-up of dopamine.

"We know elevated levels in the dopamine gene cause agitation," he said, citing medical literature and case studies.

In one 2010 study at McMaster University in Canada, published in the journal Communicative and Integrative Biology, scientists found a link between intestinal microbiota and anxiety-like behavior.

The complete article:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/anxiety-head-gut/story?id=20229136

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Hugh

Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 5, 2015, at 14:44:02

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Hugh on March 3, 2015, at 13:00:00

Perhaps this is a good excuse for me to increase my already high yogurt consumption!

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by Bill82 on March 5, 2015, at 16:18:42

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Hugh, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 5, 2015, at 14:44:02

Very interesting, I will look into this, I do notice sometimes depending on what I eat it can effect my mood. For example to much milk and I feel lethargic/slowed.

Also an update. I had to discontinue the lamictal, as it was making me somewhat more anxious/triggered which in turn made me more iratable. Also experienced some bad word finding problems(saying tomato instead of ketchup). Pdoc decided to trial amphetamine. Took that for 3 days and only slept for around 2-3 hours a day....only took 2.5mg too..... I'm tempted to at times say I got kind of happy, but was not worth the headaches and tightening I. My chest. Also experienced worse paranoia and increased doubt of bad thoughts. Finally also had a somewhat euphoric effect that kept me coming back for more.......(father was an extreme alchohalic and I already present with bad traits, 1 beer turns into 10, almost always black out everytime I drink). Have not taken for a few days and am sleeping much better, much more calm, but still have damn ocd. Might try methylphenidate.

Other possible drugs potentially in my radar are:

Low dose or normal dose naltrexone: study here---> Endogenous Opioid Activity Is Associated with Obsessive-Compulsive Symptomology in Individuals with a Family History of Alcoholism

Keppra, what are everyone's views on this, have seen two people said it helped ocd, has calcium channel blockade of which my genetic tests showed I was messed up in that department. Of those who tried it how was your experience?

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by phidippus on March 5, 2015, at 19:10:25

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on March 5, 2015, at 16:18:42

Calcium Blocking is not its primary mechanism of action. And that is theorized at this point.

Eric

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation

Posted by SLS on March 6, 2015, at 9:09:30

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on March 5, 2015, at 16:18:42

There are some ongoing studies looking at ketamine for OCD.

I tried intranasal ketamine. It didn't help with depression, but it didn't make it worse, either. Have you tried memantine? Ketamine blocks glutamate NMDA receptors in a manner that is different from memantine, but it would interesting to investigate. Important to consider is that ketamine might not even work via the NMDA receptor. It might modulate glutamate activity via its active metabolite, hydroxynorketamine (HNK), which does not act on NMDA receptors.

Have you ever tried gabapentin or pregabalin? They work to inhibit calcium channels by attaching to he alpha2delta site.

Naltrexone is a very interesting idea for OCD. LDN made my depression worse, though.


- Scott

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation ed_uk2010

Posted by Hugh on March 8, 2015, at 16:24:16

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Hugh, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 5, 2015, at 14:44:02

> Perhaps this is a good excuse for me to increase my already high yogurt consumption!

I eat lots of yogurt. I like kefir even better. It contains more probiotics than yogurt. I order Bimuno, my favorite prebiotic, from England. But you can get it from Boots.

 

Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation Bill82

Posted by Hugh on March 8, 2015, at 16:28:08

In reply to Re: Neurobiology of OCD - speculation, posted by Bill82 on March 5, 2015, at 16:18:42

This site discusses drug therapy for patients with elevated HPHPA:

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/hphpa.asp


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