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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on August 12, 2014, at 22:06:19
In reply to Robin Williams died noooooooo......, posted by linkadge on August 11, 2014, at 18:14:56
are all these mass media statements being made along the lines of "why was Williams severely depressed???? Why did such a successful person committ suicide to begin with? What was bothering Williams so severely to begin with?"
LMAO
To me, these sorts of comments are merely more evidence that the majority of society has ZERO understanding of serious mental illness.
Williams obviously committed suicide because he suffered from a DISEASE. A brain DISEASE known as severe clinical depression (and maybe he was bipolar???). Plus it sounds like he had an alcohol problem, which changes brain chemistry as well...for the worse.
Until society begins formally recognizing that clinical depression, manic depression, schizophrenia and substance abuse addiction problems are CNS DISEASES, many will continue to ask stupid questions like, "what was Williams depressed about?"
Answer? Nothing. Williams just had a deadly serious illness. As do millions of other Americans.
Eric AKA LostBoyinNC
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 13, 2014, at 9:41:00
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by LostBoyinNC45 on August 12, 2014, at 22:06:19
Good point.
Posted by Chris O on August 13, 2014, at 15:11:36
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by LostBoyinNC45 on August 12, 2014, at 22:06:19
He always seemed completely bipolar to me. (Other media people similar to him on the bipolar--though not political--axis that come to mind are Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.) At the same time, it appears that he and none of his "friends" were able to recognize that he had this terrible condition and get him into treatment. I don't see any evidence that he had given any type of mood stabilizer a try. In fact, listening to his comments on Fresh Air and those made to Carrie Fisher, it appears he was perhaps ashamed to admit he had a mental illness, and was surrounded by people who were unaware or uncaring enough to let it go untreated until it killed him. What a terrible waste, all for "pride" and "honor," even on the supposedly "left" side of the political spectrum (the side Williams rankly identified with). Couldn't anyone have said, "Robin, why don't give lithium or lamictal a three month trial to see how it goes?" Where are those people in his life?
Chris
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on August 13, 2014, at 20:00:47
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide... » LostBoyinNC45, posted by Chris O on August 13, 2014, at 15:11:36
Yeah, like a lot of these big time comedians, Williams did come over as bipolar/manic a lot of the time. Like, over the top a lot of the time. I find it hard to believe he could have had a super successful work life at that level had he been unipolar severe depression.
Also, the bipolars are the ones who abuse recreational drugs and booze the most and Williams reportedly had a serious alcohol problem.
One famous comedian that I really like, Steve Martin, Ive read is bipolar. He used to be REALLY over the top back in the seventies and eighties. In the nineties, he seemed to become more serious and to me, less comical and frankly, boring. I always wondered if he maybe got on a mood stabilizer and got things under control?
As far as Williams left wing fringe friends, I cant speak on that much. I never was a fan of Williams, he was more silly than funny, to me. However, if he did have a lot of left winger type friends, that crowd tends to be more into psychology, environment, psychotherapy and maybe recreational pot use to "manage" mental illness. That dont work for "severe" depression, as most on this board and similar boards realize. The "change your environment, change your brain and your mood" left wing mantra only works for mild depression and for healthy people with woody allen syndrome. On the other hand, I do believe that a totally negative environment can prevent psychiatry meds from working as well and you do need a generally positive environment with stress levels managed to treat ANY kind of mental illness.Sad thing is, with the kind of money Williams had access to (assumption, as some of these stars are not as wealthy as we think), Williams could have probably checked himself into the Mayo clinic for a month or two, had a full course of ECT and gotten the gold label severe depression or bipolar treatment and saved his life....had he known or someone close to him been in touch with this stuff better.
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
> He always seemed completely bipolar to me. (Other media people similar to him on the bipolar--though not political--axis that come to mind are Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.) At the same time, it appears that he and none of his "friends" were able to recognize that he had this terrible condition and get him into treatment. I don't see any evidence that he had given any type of mood stabilizer a try. In fact, listening to his comments on Fresh Air and those made to Carrie Fisher, it appears he was perhaps ashamed to admit he had a mental illness, and was surrounded by people who were unaware or uncaring enough to let it go untreated until it killed him. What a terrible waste, all for "pride" and "honor," even on the supposedly "left" side of the political spectrum (the side Williams rankly identified with). Couldn't anyone have said, "Robin, why don't give lithium or lamictal a three month trial to see how it goes?" Where are those people in his life?
>
> Chris
Posted by baseball55 on August 13, 2014, at 21:07:17
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by LostBoyinNC45 on August 12, 2014, at 22:06:19
> are all these mass media statements being made along the lines of "why was Williams severely depressed???? Why did such a successful person committ suicide to begin with? What was bothering Williams so severely to begin with?"
>
I didn't see any coverage like that, at least in the newspapers (I don't really watch TV). The papers simply said he had long suffered from depression, alcoholism and, possibly bipolar disorder.
Posted by Phillipa on August 13, 2014, at 21:17:55
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide... » LostBoyinNC45, posted by baseball55 on August 13, 2014, at 21:07:17
I didn't either. Hazelton where Robin was is that a rehab that allows medications or doesn't? Phillipa
Posted by Beckett on August 13, 2014, at 22:15:06
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide... » baseball55, posted by Phillipa on August 13, 2014, at 21:17:55
I'm not sure specifics of Williams' treatment have been discussed outside his family.
Posted by Chris O on August 13, 2014, at 22:27:14
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by LostBoyinNC45 on August 13, 2014, at 20:00:47
I just get the idea (and maybe I am wrong) from listening to Williams' interviewed that he was very conservative/reticent about labeling himself as mentally ill. He seemed oblivious to the possibility, really, as do many of the people lionizing him in the media right now. In fact, I think Williams died believing he was not mentally ill. Which, as you point out (and one of the points I was trying to make as well) is "strange," because one would think he would be more open to dealing with himself honestly in humanistic terms as someone so vigilantly on the left of the political/social/philosophical spectrum. But reading about his Christian Scientist mother and Williams "terror" of his father helps me better understand the true nature of his beliefs. It appears he may have "only" believed he had a "drug habit" and took a "mind over matter" approach to dealing with this struggle in his life. I think he died a very confused man. And I really agree with you about the money thing: What a shame that someone with his money did not aggressively treat his condition. If so, he may well be alive, lucid and happy today. So very sad.
Chris
Posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2014, at 18:25:13
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide... » LostBoyinNC45, posted by Chris O on August 13, 2014, at 22:27:14
He was in Hazelton. Both metal health meds and other tx plans offered. Bad press for them.
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Posted by baseball55 on August 14, 2014, at 19:39:25
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide... » LostBoyinNC45, posted by Chris O on August 13, 2014, at 22:27:14
We know nothing about William's mental illness beyond what he himself has shared in interviews over the years. We don't know that he suffered from depression/bipolar (the press says he did, so I assume they are basing this in interviews he gave, since they certainly don't have access to medical records and the family is asking to be left alone). We don't know if, how or where he was treated for mood issues (we do know he went to a rehab for alcohol abuse because he stated this in interviews). For all we know, he did not suffer from depression, but became distraught over life/career issues. We just don't know.
> I just get the idea (and maybe I am wrong) from listening to Williams' interviewed that he was very conservative/reticent about labeling himself as mentally ill. He seemed oblivious to the possibility, really, as do many of the people lionizing him in the media right now. In fact, I think Williams died believing he was not mentally ill. Which, as you point out (and one of the points I was trying to make as well) is "strange," because one would think he would be more open to dealing with himself honestly in humanistic terms as someone so vigilantly on the left of the political/social/philosophical spectrum. But reading about his Christian Scientist mother and Williams "terror" of his father helps me better understand the true nature of his beliefs. It appears he may have "only" believed he had a "drug habit" and took a "mind over matter" approach to dealing with this struggle in his life. I think he died a very confused man. And I really agree with you about the money thing: What a shame that someone with his money did not aggressively treat his condition. If so, he may well be alive, lucid and happy today. So very sad.
>
> Chris
Posted by Chris O on August 14, 2014, at 20:11:18
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by baseball55 on August 14, 2014, at 19:39:25
Yes, I understand that. So, anything I or anyone else says about Williams' mental health is based on limited assumptions and projections. Nevertheless, piecing together his interviews and things he has said in the over the years (including things he has said about his parents and childhood), it is clear that he did not connect his struggles publicly with any type of mental illness. In fact, he seems blissfully unaware of the possibility. Yet, to me, Williams always seemed lost in an almost terminal manic state, a state he used to cover up darker feelings, feelings he likely felt ashamed of. I've also heard Williams say that cocaine was "calming" to him (look at his last interview on the Craig Ferguson Show on YouTube)--more evidence, in my opinion, that he was bipolar. How could no one around him at least attempt to confront him about these possibilities? It is beyond me.
Chris
Posted by SLS on August 15, 2014, at 8:37:26
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by baseball55 on August 14, 2014, at 19:39:25
> We know nothing about William's mental illness beyond what he himself has shared in interviews over the years.
I believe his widow just announced that Robin had difficulties with depression and anxiety. He was also diagnosed recently as having Parkinsons Disease. Mood disturbances and anxiety are associated with Parkinsons Disease, and can precede the appearance of motor symptoms by as many as six years (similar to Huntingtons Disease). PET scans seem to corroborate this.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on August 15, 2014, at 9:39:37
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide... » baseball55, posted by SLS on August 15, 2014, at 8:37:26
Loss of smell is also a symptom of Parkinsons same as it is for Alzheimers which I greatly fear. Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on August 15, 2014, at 16:06:12
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide... » SLS, posted by Phillipa on August 15, 2014, at 9:39:37
I remember reading somewhere that Robin had been on lithium at one point. Also, he was dealing with a new diagnosis of early Parkinson's at the time of his death.
Linkadge
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on August 15, 2014, at 20:40:57
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide... » SLS, posted by Phillipa on August 15, 2014, at 9:39:37
Loss of smell (and taste) is also a symptom of clinical depression. On the other hand, these are also symptoms of chronic sinusitis. Loss of smell is a symptom in so many diseases that to me, it means little. Although I do understand your concern.
Eric
> Loss of smell is also a symptom of Parkinsons same as it is for Alzheimers which I greatly fear. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on August 15, 2014, at 21:15:35
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by LostBoyinNC45 on August 15, 2014, at 20:40:57
Really? I worry so much and what a loss to neither smell or taste food. Phillipa
Posted by Beckett on August 15, 2014, at 23:35:24
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide... » baseball55, posted by SLS on August 15, 2014, at 8:37:26
> > We know nothing about William's mental illness beyond what he himself has shared in interviews over the years.
>
> I believe his widow just announced that Robin had difficulties with depression and anxiety. He was also diagnosed recently as having Parkinsons Disease. Mood disturbances and anxiety are associated with Parkinsons Disease, and can precede the appearance of motor symptoms by as many as six years (similar to Huntingtons Disease). PET scans seem to corroborate this.It is a terrible illness. Euthanasia is illegal in my state, and I am not sure I could do it on my own, but seeing a family member go the full course has made me consider this as an option.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on August 16, 2014, at 0:20:27
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by Beckett on August 15, 2014, at 23:35:24
> > > We know nothing about William's mental illness beyond what he himself has shared in interviews over the years.
> >
> > I believe his widow just announced that Robin had difficulties with depression and anxiety. He was also diagnosed recently as having Parkinsons Disease. Mood disturbances and anxiety are associated with Parkinsons Disease, and can precede the appearance of motor symptoms by as many as six years (similar to Huntingtons Disease). PET scans seem to corroborate this.
>
> It is a terrible illness. Euthanasia is illegal in my state, and I am not sure I could do it on my own, but seeing a family member go the full course has made me consider this as an option.Me, too.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2014, at 18:36:34
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide... » Beckett, posted by SLS on August 16, 2014, at 0:20:27
Parkinson's? I worked out with a lady my age who had it at the gym her husband owned. She wasn't bad and was enjoying life?? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2014, at 18:43:51
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2014, at 18:36:34
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Wife-Robin-Williams-had-early-Parkinson-s-5689032.php
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2014, at 18:45:26
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2014, at 18:43:51
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/parkinsons-disease/basics/definition/CON-20028488
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on August 18, 2014, at 13:06:28
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2014, at 18:45:26
is normally treatable.
Frankly, Im skeptical of these family claims of Williams having been diagnosed with parkinsons. Sometimes, people will go to the ends of the Earth to not admit they are afflicted with a form of mental illness. They will claim they are or were afflicted with something else to avoid what they perceive as the ultimate public shame...being mentally ill.
Also, Parkinsons patients, especially younger ones, are notorious for having conservative personalities prior to the onset of parkinsons. They even have a name for it, its called "Parkinsons personality." Basically it entails being a sort of reserved, conservative person and parkinsons patients almost never smoked or used tobacco or recreational drugs (or had booze problems), because all are heavily associated with higher dopamine levels. Parkinsons patients usually dont gamble or engage in "high risk" activities.
Williams came across to me not as an excessively conservative person and the alcohol problem does not jibe with having early onset parkinsons.
Still, even if Williams really did get diagnosed with Parkinsons recently, it was obviously early stage. The severe depression component that IS oftentimes common in parkinsons disease, that is treatable (somewhat). With the money that guy had, he could have probably afforded lifetime ECTs in the very best hospital in America by the very best ECT doctors and ECT has an excellent reputation for treating the worst clinical depression as well as being used as an off label treatment for parkinsons disease.
I dont buy the "it was parkinsons disease" claim. It sounds like a line, to me. Maybe he did have parkinsons disease, but what evidently caused the guy's death was plain old fashioned severe and recalcitrant denial regarding having a form of mental illness. In other words, its the same old song dance. SSDD.
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
Posted by Chris O on August 18, 2014, at 14:47:20
In reply to Re: depression in early stage parkinsons, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on August 18, 2014, at 13:06:28
"Sometimes, people will go to the ends of the Earth to not admit they are afflicted with a form of mental illness. They will claim they are or were afflicted with something else to avoid what they perceive as the ultimate public shame...being mentally ill."
"...but what evidently caused the guy's death was plain old fashioned severe and recalcitrant denial regarding having a form of mental illness."
Well said. And even if it is not true or completely true in Williams' case, it's certainly true in the needless deaths of many others.
Chris
Posted by Beckett on August 18, 2014, at 17:34:42
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2014, at 18:36:34
> Parkinson's? I worked out with a lady my age who had it at the gym her husband owned. She wasn't bad and was enjoying life?? Phillipa
Prognosis varies person to person. My family member was diagnosised with 'Parkinson's plus' at age 53, and is now in stage 5 (I think that's what it's called). At age 61, my family member experiences dementia and is unable to operate a wheel chair unattended. Our experience is heartbreaking.
Others live long lives. I'm glad your friend is doing well.
Posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2014, at 20:39:06
In reply to Re: what gets me on William's suicide..., posted by Beckett on August 18, 2014, at 17:34:42
Beckett have no idea how she is doing today that was at least 15 years ago. I have asked others from there and no one knows. Yes it can progress very rapidly. Neighbor here had that happen to him was most likely in late 70's and has been deceased for quite a few years now. Also the mask of Parkinson's takes the humor from the face of Parkinson Patients. And I would imagine that this was unacceptable to a comedian. Sad but true. I am sorry about your relative also. So sad. Phillipa
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