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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PeterMartin on April 1, 2014, at 17:49:44
Hello,
I've been taking Marplan along with Lamictal (100mg) and Seroquel(25mg/sleep)since 2010 so about four years now. When I started Marplan in 2010 20mg surprisingly worked well enough so I stuck there. In maybe 2012 I bumped up to 30mg and I've good with that dose until recently.
I've had a rocky start to the year mental health wise. A lot more depression creeping in. I've tried everything raising dosages of all 3 meds, changing times when taking them, etc....and if anything it's just made the depression worse.
I've scratching my head about it and then I remembered that in January after years of drinking Crystal Lite throughout the day I stopped on the advise of my mother. She suggested that it could be more harmful than people let on. My main reason to switch to pure water was hoping to lose weight and I started buying into the theory that you may eat more since your brain thinks you're tasting something sweet but not getting the actual reward.
So after a really crappy day I started thinking about Aspartame again and googled to seethat it's made up of Phenylalanine which coupled w/ an MAOI could potentially have psychoactive affects. Perhaps placebo but just downed a bottle of water w/ crystal light and here I am an hr after a nightmarish nap feeling much better than on wake.
Has anyone ever found Aspartame to *help* with the AD effects of Nardil, Parnate, Marplan, etc? Most of the stuff that comes up on Google says it could cause depression but perhaps w/ my cocktail it balances things out better.
There's a thread about PEA (which Aspartame breaks down into) + Nardil being effective: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080316/msgs/818743.html
I know there's a risk but I drank Aspartame in my water for 4yrs without any noticable problems (BP/etc).
Anyone have any experience with it helping? (Or perhaps withdrawl really screwing things up?)
Thanks....
Posted by uncouth on April 12, 2014, at 14:26:57
In reply to MAOI + Aspartame = better AD response?, posted by PeterMartin on April 1, 2014, at 17:49:44
I absolutely think this is a phenomenon, and i've mentioend it to others myself!
It is understudied for sure, but I've always increased my diet coke consumption dramatically when on MAOI. I also had a great response to PEA + MAOI in the past (though straight PEA is bad and caused major issues in the long run; short run it destroyed depression).
I had a cousin once who was addicted to cigarettes+massive quantities of diet soda. Seriously. He was self treating depression. Others have reported that also--pack-a-day cigarette smoking in combo with aspartame is a rich man's antidepressant (given the cost of cigarettes).
I've started nardil the past few weeks; i've noticed my diet coke consumption increasing...
Posted by PeterMartin on April 20, 2014, at 1:36:43
In reply to Re: MAOI + Aspartame = better AD response? » PeterMartin, posted by uncouth on April 12, 2014, at 14:26:57
Just caught this - thanks for the reply!
Posted by kirkglen on April 25, 2014, at 10:06:33
In reply to Re: MAOI + Aspartame = better AD response?, posted by PeterMartin on April 20, 2014, at 1:36:43
Peter
For the past 2 years I've been trying to get Nardil to work. My dose was 60mg in AM and 30mg PM. Some days were tolerable but then back to the black hole.I know Nardil is the only AD for me. I had been on it 30+ years prior to
trying every other AD.
Three days ago a cut my dose to 60mg AM and started drinking 1 diet Sprite a day. Washing my Nardil down
with 1/2 the Sprite.It's amazing as the aspartame has helped dramatically. I'm staying with this for several weeks to see if it's lasting.
Then I'm going to buy some liquid amino acids and see the effect. I've always thought mental illness is a symptom of a possible digestive illness. The only reason meds work is they do a lot recycling of whats available. Why would aspartame increase the AD effect except it's putting more neuros in play.
I'd really appreciate your thoughts as I'm going to start looking more at the cause vs. the symptom.
Posted by Kktemene on May 1, 2014, at 23:53:59
In reply to Re: MAOI + Aspartame = better AD response?, posted by kirkglen on April 25, 2014, at 10:06:33
I take nardil + lamictal. I tried drinking a diet coke yesterday, and did feel better. But aspartame is contraindicated for people taking MAOIs, because it contains phenylalanine. http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/phenylalanine
So maybe all of us should keep track of our blood pressure while using aspartame and talk to our p-doc.
Thanks for the posts about aspartame. I'm going to continue experimenting with it, if my p-doc is OK with it.
Posted by PeterMartin on May 2, 2014, at 21:18:01
In reply to Re: MAOI + Aspartame = better AD response?, posted by Kktemene on May 1, 2014, at 23:55:32
> I take nardil + lamictal. I tried drinking a diet coke yesterday, and did feel better. But aspartame is contraindicated for people taking MAOIs, because it contains phenylalanine. http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/phenylalanine
> So maybe all of us should keep track of our blood pressure while using aspartame and talk to our p-doc.
> Thanks for the posts about aspartame. I'm going to continue experimenting with it, if my p-doc is OK with it.
Yea I know it's something to avoid but I've been drinking crystal lite on Marplan since I started it in 2010 w/o any BP increases. Never really thought it about it potentially adding to the AD effect until I stopped taking it in Jan for 3months to see if it was causing me to gain weight.Definitely a good idea to monitor the BP though. I had a cuff when I first started MAOis in 2010. Now I just make sure to use the BP machine at the grocery store when I go a couple times a week. I drink Aspartame daily (2 to 4 16oz water bottles of crystal lite) and always have BP in the low range (120/80ish). I was on lithium w/ Marplan for a little while and that definitely increased my BP a little more than I was comfortable....(140/100ish)....
Posted by Uncouth on June 27, 2014, at 10:33:22
In reply to MAOI + Aspartame = better AD response?, posted by PeterMartin on April 1, 2014, at 17:49:44
Hey everyone. I am convinced now after three or so minhs on nardil that aspartame is a BAD idea. I found myself escalating consumption and did some research on what it does to amino acid balance (it actually may reduce dopamine efflux after a while, and affect serotonin) AND it's potential toxicity at NMDA receptors.
I took d-aspartic-acid one day which is a bodybuilding supplement and totally lost my sh*t---extreme anger irritability etc, convinced even low quantities of aspartame (say 3-5 packets a day) is a BAD IDEA. Going off completely starting today. Read more:
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v62/n4/full/1602866a.html
Posted by Pkjk on January 29, 2015, at 19:44:01
In reply to MAOI + Aspartame = better AD response?, posted by PeterMartin on April 1, 2014, at 17:49:44
It seems I'm late to the party, but I wanted to leave a comment anyway.
I've noticed I get a rush os pleasure/mild euphoria when I drink about 300ml or more of pepsi max. I couldn't figure out if the rush was caused by the aspartame or the acesulfame potassium, also known by sweeteners (951, 950) respectively. As there isn't much information out there about acesulfame k, I didn't know if it was a possibility or not.
It seems my question has been answered by the discovery of this post. I don't know if I should continue drinking 4L a day of pepsi max, buy a sweetener made from aspartame and use that instead, or stop drinking this stuff altogether.
Its up in the air. What do you guys think? If this post isn't so old that no one check it now, that is.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 29, 2015, at 20:04:18
In reply to Re: MAOI + Aspartame = better AD response?, posted by Pkjk on January 29, 2015, at 19:44:01
Doesn't Pepsi Max contain caffeine?
Posted by Pkjk on January 29, 2015, at 21:11:55
In reply to Re: MAOI + Aspartame = better AD response? » Pkjk, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 29, 2015, at 20:04:18
Yeah, but I don't get the same feeling no matter how much coffee I drink. Caffeine increases my energy and just makes my head pound if I have to much. Pepsi max gives me a rush of euphoria.
Posted by 90%there on February 5, 2015, at 10:21:47
In reply to Re: MAOI + Aspartame = better AD response?, posted by Kktemene on May 1, 2014, at 23:53:59
> I take nardil + lamictal. I tried drinking a diet coke yesterday, and did feel better. But aspartame is contraindicated for people taking MAOIs, because it contains phenylalanine. http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/phenylalanine
> So maybe all of us should keep track of our blood pressure while using aspartame and talk to our p-doc.
> Thanks for the posts about aspartame. I'm going to continue experimenting with it, if my p-doc is OK with it.Phenyalanine is barely contraindicated with any MAOI. Scare mongering? Tho I wouldn't take 10g with Nardil. Phenyalanine is very common place in most foods and is hard to avoid. I've taken supplements containing all the Essential amino acids. It work well. Taken in the morning, with or without meds seems to charge the brain with all that it needs. Only ever felt a few minor heart flutters and also very mild euphoria. Like feeling ready for the day ahead (must try the again!) Take with breakfast to avoid those effects. Anyway, without phenylalanine (or tyrosine which I find stronger so more risk) you would have no raw materials to make dopamine in the 1st place.
Also, coffee contains more than just caffein, has varying amount of theobromine too. Chocolate contains small amounts of caffein, more theobromine and PEA. But PEA is rarely felt without an MAOI as MAO breaks it down almost instantly. Further more coffee been pods/shells are a sedative. Each different caffein beverage feels different to the next. Thats why I use neat caffeine (pep pills, pro plus) if I need it.
Artificial sweeteners? No thank you. I'll stick with sucralose if I want something sweetened without the calories. They put it in alot of protein shakes now.
This is the end of the thread.
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