Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1019914

Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does

Posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2012, at 9:40:21

After reading hear for years now. I've come to my own conclusion that pills don't work for mental conditions except for short term. As after long term if they did work they end up not working. But if a person changes their life circumstances and how they think or feel it seems to make the difference. If someone has longterm goals seems to be the best of all. Just an opinion. Phillipa

 

Lou's response- » Phillipa

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 19, 2012, at 12:50:00

In reply to Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does, posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2012, at 9:40:21

> After reading hear for years now. I've come to my own conclusion that pills don't work for mental conditions except for short term. As after long term if they did work they end up not working. But if a person changes their life circumstances and how they think or feel it seems to make the difference. If someone has longterm goals seems to be the best of all. Just an opinion. Phillipa

Phillipa,
You wrote,[...except for short term...If a person changes...how they think...].

 

Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does

Posted by Tomatheus on June 19, 2012, at 15:51:52

In reply to Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does, posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2012, at 9:40:21

Phillipa,

When I read the experiences of those who were doing well on Nardil until the medication's formulation was changed in 2003, I reached a much different conclusion than you did regarding the long-term effects of medications. Prior to the Nardil formulation change, the individuals who were responding to the medication weren't spending much time on Internet forums talking about how good their response to the medication was. But as I learned from reading the stories of those who suffered after Nardil's formulation was changed, the individuals in question *were* doing well on the medication and going about their daily lives up until the fall of 2003. It wasn't until Nardil's formulation was changed that those who had been responding to the medication took to the Internet to say that Nardil wasn't working as well as it had previously and noticed that they weren't the only ones for whom the medication had become less effective and less tolerable after the appearance (and inactive ingredients) of the medication had changed.

My point in bringing this up is that a lot of those who respond well to medications in the long term aren't posting messages on the Internet about how well they're doing. Those who post are usually struggling and looking for solutions to their symptoms, whether those solutions are pharmacological, psychological, or something else. That's what happened when Nardil's formulation was changed. There were individuals who had been doing well on Nardil for years or even decades, but when did they go online to tell their stories? Only after their medication had stopped working, which was presumably a result of the fact that the medication's formulation had changed. My guess would be that if a lot of the antidepressants and other psychiatric medications that are on the market were rendered less effective that we would start hearing about those who were responding well to the medications for so long just as we did when Nardil's formulation was changed in 2003. Maybe some of the medications that are on the market don't work as well in the long term as Nardil seemed to work for some individuals, but it wouldn't surprise me if altering the effectiveness of one of the SSRIs would bring forth droves of people saying that they were doing well on their medication for a long time until its effectiveness was compromised.

So, basically, after having read the stories of those who were doing well on Nardil until the formulation was changed, I'm not convinced that you're right in saying that medications never work in the long run. It does seem that a lot on this board, myself included, don't respond well to medications in the long run, and I can see how reading messages on this board could lead you to conclude that medications never work in the long term, but I don't think that those who post here are representative of the general population of psychiatric patients. Medications obviously work in the long run for some individuals, or the stories from individuals who were responding to Nardil for decades before the formulation was changed never would have been written.

As far as changing one's thinking patterns is concerned, I do think that there's evidence that doing what you've said can be helpful for people with depressive disorders and other mental illnesses, but I think that psychotherapy is like medications in some ways in that it works really well for some individuals, it's somewhat helpful for others, and it does very little to nothing for others. I'm currently in counseling and have received other forms of therapy, and I can't say that it's helped to reduce the severity of any of my symptoms. It would be nice if talking to someone and changing my thinking patterns (which are pretty much nonexistent when my vegetative depression is at its worst) could give me the energy that I used to have before the onset of my illness or restore my cognition to what it used to be before I took aminoguanidine, but the reality for me is that psychological interventions have been ineffective in doing those things, at least so far. I'm not saying that changing one's thinking patterns can never be beneficial, but I do think that for someone like me, whose depression is vegetative in nature and has a lot of trouble thinking at all when really symptomatic, that changing thinking patterns isn't going to do much about the bigger problem of having one's energy level depleted.

Maybe if I and some of the others here were to write post after post about we haven't found psychological interventions to be effective, you wouldn't have reached the conclusions that you reached in your post. But after all, this is the medication board, and so people tend to discuss medication issues here, and that includes the problems that we have with medications. I personally tend to write the most about the treatment interventions that have made some impact on my symptoms, which in my case are medications and supplements. Have I had good long-term success with the medications and supplements that I've tried? Generally, no, although Abilify does tend to keep my positive psychotic symptoms mostly at bay. And I don't know if I ever will respond well to a medication in the long run. But if defeating my vegetative depression were as simple as changing my life circumstances and/or my thinking patterns, then I would have discovered that a long time ago -- long before I started taking medications. I don't know the extent to which others on this board have tried psychological interventions for their illnesses, but I would imagine that the results of such interventions are probably mixed, as they are with medications.

Tomatheus

 

Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does » Tomatheus

Posted by SLS on June 19, 2012, at 16:32:40

In reply to Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does, posted by Tomatheus on June 19, 2012, at 15:51:52

Hi Tomatheus.

That was a great post.

> It does seem that a lot on this board, myself included, don't respond well to medications in the long run

*Yet*

I imagine that you have already tried Lamictal in combination with Abilify. What were the results?

You might want to take a look at cariprazine if it is approved. It might be better for negative and depressive symptoms than Abilify. I believe it is more potent as a D3 partial agonist in the limbic system.


- Scott

 

Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does » SLS

Posted by Tomatheus on June 19, 2012, at 16:44:26

In reply to Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does » Tomatheus, posted by SLS on June 19, 2012, at 16:32:40

Scott,

See below for my responses to your post...

> That was a great post.

Thanks! :)

> I imagine that you have already tried Lamictal in combination with Abilify. What were the results?

I have tried adding Lamictal to the Abilify that I take. Both times I tried going up to 25 mg, I noticed a worsening of my vegetative depressive symptoms.

> You might want to take a look at cariprazine if it is approved. It might be better for negative and depressive symptoms than Abilify. I believe it is more potent as a D3 partial agonist in the limbic system.

Thanks. I'll definitely keep cariprazine in mind.

Tomatheus (note updated signature)

 

Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does

Posted by Christ_empowered on June 19, 2012, at 17:18:45

In reply to Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does » SLS, posted by Tomatheus on June 19, 2012, at 16:44:26

OK, I think it depends. I'm stuck on Abilify. I don't think I have a "brain disease" so much as lots of crazy stuff happened (much of it, oddly enough, related to shrinks), and now I need a hardcore anti-agitation medication.

From what I understand, people with Schizophrenia and other severe mental illnesses tend to have troubled pasts. Some way of dealing with that might eliminate or reduce the need for meds, or reduce the amount of time people spend as "mental patients." Then again...my experience has been that once you're "in the system," the powers that be aren't all that eager to let you go.

 

Re: Pills work just fine » Phillipa

Posted by phidippus on June 19, 2012, at 18:05:56

In reply to Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does, posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2012, at 9:40:21

I've been on Lithium for 10 years now. It will never poop out on me. I know what happens if I go of it. Hell. I will be on it for the rest of my life and I'm just fine with that.

MEdications don't poop out. Symptoms get worse.

Eric

 

Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does

Posted by bleauberry on June 19, 2012, at 20:35:56

In reply to Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does, posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2012, at 9:40:21

I can see what you're saying Phillipa.. But if it appears that way sometimes it might be because the people here are not representative of the general public. Outside of this board there are many other forums and blogs and stuff. I remember seeing at one of the rate your meds places someone on year 15 of zoloft and still doing good, or 20 years of nardil, nortriptyline, prozac, whatever. I mean, it happens.. And that's cool.

 

Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does

Posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2012, at 21:12:46

In reply to Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does, posted by bleauberry on June 19, 2012, at 20:35:56

I think the key is for some. That I buy. Interesting experience today. Went to endos for 6 month review and while waiting there was an older gentleman in waiting room with a guiding eye dog. Since My Son was blinded in Desert Storm. I decided to start a convesation with him. We exchanged both my Son's and what was wrong with him. His was genetic. Anyway since he was blind his sense of hearing as astute. Come to find out he is renowned four year retired psychiatrist from here. He said he didn't believe in the 15 or 20 minute visit whip out a RX pad and Write. He believe the full hour was necessary as he needed to know his patients well. He began questioning me and I readily answered all his questions reguarding medical conditions the past lymes which he did believe in and know and wanted to know how it had affected me. He immediately after listening to me said ocd same as other doc. Told my husband when went to to appointment how horrible it is to be trapped with panic anxiety inside and how important control is. And that this control kept a person with ocd from dealing with matters to painful to deal with. He said no med would work for me. That a form of CBT for OCD was what he recommended and only two Therapists he knew did it well and correctly. One in Charleston and the other at Emery Georgia. He said that for some reason even he didn't understand therapy had never gained popularity in Charlotte hence the lack of therapists. He knew the doc that had referred me to the one I see and thought the referring doc was best in area. His recommendation was do what I feel comfortable with medwise. But no med can fix all the traumas from childhood and first marriage. So for me this just clarified what I already knew. But his speciality favorite patients had been bipolar and he did say that lithium was the best medication ever for it. That unfortunately since it's dug up even here that it's so inexpensive that it went out of favor. I also loved caring for bipolar patients gratifying when their meds kicked in. So that is my story and true. Phillipa

 

Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does » Phillipa

Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2012, at 10:55:46

In reply to Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does, posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2012, at 9:40:21

I think it depends on the underlying condition. Meds can work for years with bipolar, and I think they can be pretty effective for anxiety.

I may have a minimalist medication strategy but it is working and I see no reason to believe it will cease to work.

It might be a good idea for you to consider the appropriate scope of medications in your life. There are things meds can do and things they can't. Using them for what they can help is sensible. Expecting them to do things a med just can't do is setting yourself up for disappointment and frustration.

That's something a good therapist and pdoc combination might be able to help you with.

 

Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does

Posted by emmanuel98 on June 20, 2012, at 18:22:35

In reply to Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2012, at 10:55:46

I agree with Dinah. Therapy plus meds is way more effective than either alone. Study after study shows this. I have gotten so much out of DBT and have learned to control my responses to residual depression that meds don't seem to eliminate completely.

 

Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does

Posted by atypical on June 21, 2012, at 3:27:24

In reply to Re: Pills Dont Work What You Think + Feel Does, posted by Tomatheus on June 19, 2012, at 15:51:52

Ditto!!


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