Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 780553

Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD

Posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 3, 2007, at 13:30:24

There has been some discussion on this board about antidepressant actions of opioids in particular buprenorphine.

Recently I had the opportunity to try a short course of oxycodone in the form of Oxycontin (10mg slow release) and Endone (5mg capsules).

It was a real eye opener.

I have long standing chronic pain and a long standing dysthymic/severe-major depression and generalised severe anxiety that can peak in agitated near psychotic states and have burned out on at least 4 occasions over the last 25 years - I'm 44 y.o.

I recently was diagnosed with ADHD, inattentive type and was prescribed dexamphetamine. It helps. I'm not convinced that my ADHD symptoms are 'primary' - hippocampal atrophy through prolonged stress may produce similar symptoms (?).

Anyway, oxycodone not only dissolved way my pain it also lifted my mood unlike any medication I have taken to date and this is in doses in 10-20mg range. I had expected the typical opioid mellow out effect (I received opioids for kidney stones in my early 20s and have used codeine/paracetamol). Rather than mellowing out I was surprised to feel stimulated. I have since found out that 'oxy' is known for this speedy quality although I haven't seen it written about in any research articles and have only heard about on two occasions (have you?). Nor was it simply 'speedyness' it melted away my brain fog and gave me a clarity of thought - more so than dex. The mood lift wasn't exactly euphoric more like a rosy outlook and a sense of inner robustness.

I've tried tricyclics and SSRIs. For the first two weeks of starting Prozac I felt energised and lifted (I was told this was a placebo effect as it takes at least 2 weeks to start working), this passed then it did very little except clamp my emotions (emotional blunting - this effected how I reacted to other people and badly interfered with a relationship I was in ). This clamping mixed with my apathy and melancholy and left me semi-zombie like and while helping me cope with a job finding another job was what I needed but never did at that time. Libido disappeared and erectile dysfunction worsened. I had to stop Prozac after several years of use as I developed 'out of the blue' a bad urticaria. My pdoc said it wasn't the prozac but it came and went on cessation and restarting prozac and I decided to quit it as it was doing more harm than good. I've tried Zoloft and Avanza to no effect. I haven't tried an MAOI or RIMA. With the treatment for this urticaria came another eye opener - this all happened before my oxycodone revelation. I was given the corticosteriod prednisolone.

Now I know the corticosteriods can cause mood swings. However, I was prescribed a ramped and tapered low dose regime. After taking the first dose my pain seemed to drain out of my body - even in places that I didn't think I had pain. I won't go into details about my pain but it is fibromyalgic - musculo-skeletal upper back and neck - that is consistent with osteoarthritic degeneration - there's more to it than that including these mysterious 'waves' where I feel like I've literally been poisoned. Not only did my pain subside I felt lifted - again unlike any anti-depressant I've ever taken. A physician put it down to the above mentioned mood swing that these drugs are known for. I'm not convinced and after reading about hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis involvement in depression I am going to pursue some tests. I'm not prepared to take a corticosteriod on an ongoing basis as the side effects are probably too risky (?)

Anyway back to the opioids. Has anyone else with treatment resistant depression/dysthymia/ADHD ever tried oxycodone?

Do you think the effects I noticed are a typical 'high' associated with the drug?

Do you think that I would develop tolerance - even a low doses and that the psychogenic effects disappear? I used oxy for about a month and didn't notice any tolerance developing. I wonder if oxy has some nerve 'stabilising' effect. It intrigues me that I haven't developed a tolerance to dex.

Trying to get opioids prescribed for chronic pain in Australia is virtually impossible (even though there is good evidence to support their use - there are a few champions of this position but they are on the fringe and I have yet to find a doctor that would entertain the idea). If I mentioned the effects on my mood/ADHD I would almost certainly get laughed at and thrown out of the clinic. One doctor has refused to see me again simply for asking for opioid pain relief!

That there has been some research with buprenorphine and depression is encouraging but I wonder if the 'speedy' effect of oxycodone is working in my favour with attention problems or if simply not having pain interfere is allowing better attention.

In any case even if these medications are the only effective ones I've ever taken, and could allow me to have a functional life, I still don't think I could obtain them in Australia. Even if one medication helped me manage with pain and had the added benefit of fixing my depression/ADHD I doubt if I could find a compassionate doctor to even trial them. It is extremely frustrating as I feel like I'm running out of options and the prospect of 'surviving' is losing it's appeal

D

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD

Posted by rjlockhart on September 3, 2007, at 23:37:32

In reply to Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD, posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 3, 2007, at 13:30:24

Oxycoutin is a strong narcotic. I dont really know what your asking, do you need it for depression, and pain?

My aunt in law takes Hydromorphone (the most strongest) for migranges which she litterly will faint, throw up, cant move, its awful her eyes get blood shot, dihibiliting.

I have seen her on it and the way it effects her. Mainly i have noticed it makes her feel more warm to people, and i notice a definate personality change. Feeling like she feels my emotions, and everything. All i know its hydromorphone.

Oxycoutin i have heard so many waky experiences, "nipplestimulation with oxycoutin" thats like "yea im having sex on cocaine" i dont know who posted that a while back but they where out there.

I have taken Vicodin before for pain, but thats the only drug for pain i've taken.

Someone in my family who i cant really tell you what happened to him (babblemail me if you want to know), but he was prescribed Oxycotin and became a potential addict, and went other things and became worse and worse. I cant talk about this on a public board. But i can tell you that street speed was used and went down the drain.

Are you asking if its used for ADHD? i dont believe so unless you are really having pain with it.

I have had problems with Amphetamines (prescriptions) and i know how to handle it now.

Oxycoutin from i know is really usally only for severe pain, like SEVERE. There have been people here post about it, having expereinces.....

I know how to approach a doctor about a issue and i can tell you how to ask. But you have to tell me why.

There is a way to work with your doctor.

There are doctors that will just say no, to even an evident problem.

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADH

Posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 4, 2007, at 14:00:04

In reply to Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD, posted by rjlockhart on September 3, 2007, at 23:37:32

Thanks for your reply,

> Oxycoutin is a strong narcotic. I dont really
> Oxycoutin from i know is really usally only for severe pain, like SEVERE. There have been people here post about it, having expereinces.....

Yes I know, but it is dose dependent.

> I know how to approach a doctor about a issue >and i can tell you how to ask. But you have to >tell me why.

Better anlgesia - with the bonus of cleared head and some rectification of ADHD symptoms.

Cheers

D

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD

Posted by rina on September 4, 2007, at 15:41:14

In reply to Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD, posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 3, 2007, at 13:30:24

I'll give you my short verson of experience with a drug just shy of Oxy but in the same morpine sustained category. Two years ago, after an injury onboard the aircraft while I was working, I was given MSContin for pain sustained after my injury of a broken arm, fractured tailbone and injury to the neck. The drug is very powerful and does take away the pain but let's not forget the confidence and self assurance it also gives. The fact that you can be social without anxiety and just fit in all together. Well after I recovered successfully from the injury, I felt I no longer needed the drug. Right? Wrong! My body wasn't having it. After 4 short months of using it. I went through withdrawals that will never be forgotten. i.e needles being poked in my eye,bugs crawling all over me,bees stinging me,people yelling my name,dead people chasing me,I started scratching my skin off..immediately i was taken to the emergency room. Thereafter I spent 2weeks in a detox program that I had to spend out of pocket 15,000 because I didn't want my job to know by using my insurance, then later sued the doctor that prescribed the drugs to me for not letting me know the side effects. Now are you really sure this is the drug you want to use for your illness? If so, make sure it's really worth it for you. Good Luck! Just a personal experience

 

Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD

Posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 4, 2007, at 21:22:04

In reply to Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD, posted by rina on September 4, 2007, at 15:41:14

Thanks for the reply,

>After 4 short months of using it.

The length of time is one factor but importantly is the size of the dose.

Post trauma/surgery analgesia is very important in avoiding chronic pain conditions that can set in and cripple ones life. Sudden neck injury seems to have the potential of taking on a life of its own.

>I went through withdrawals that will never be >forgotten. i.e needles being poked in my eye

What - you stopped abruptly!? Did you discuss discontinuation with your doctor? I'm very conservative with taper rates and would expect if I used opioids that I'd need to reduce usage very very slowly and use other analgesics if pain flared during tapering off and be prepared to plateau for a while. Large dose opioid taper off could also benefit from a partial agonist/antagonist such as buprenorphine.

What taper off rate did you use? As the body has to repopulate receptors and learn to re-regulate it is going to take some time - again dose and duration of treatment dependent.

>then later sued the doctor that prescribed the >drugs to me for not letting me know the side >effects.

Doctors sure do have a duty of care to manage medication but I also believe I have some liability (if capable of making a choice). I ask doctors about medications and read the consumer information and do my homework (usually lots) - some doctors respond well when you show interest, most don't - it's cheaper to be an aware consumer than enter into litigation. I think there are some cultural differences between the US and Australia - we don't hold lawyers in such high regard - maybe a step up from used car salespeople - some tongue in cheek :-)
I think there must be cultural differences in insurance as well. In Australia we more frequently have medical insurance separate from work contracts and there is confidentiality. In any case, medical detox - a drug complication, should carry no stigma whatsoever - if your employer has the right to know the details of your medical condition then they should also be responsible enough to know the difference between abuse related detox and medical detox. Why bother having salary packaged insurance if differences like this aren't understood? Interestingly some studies show chronic pain persists longer when there is litigation involved (stress, payment driven outcomes, suggestion from legal?).

>Now are you really sure this is the drug you want >to use for your illness? If so, make sure it's >really worth it for you.

I expect that the doses in our cases would be very different. Chronic pain is a different process to acute pain (although acute pain can transform into chronic pain). I have very good acute pain tolerance.

At the moment I don't think I could work with the pain levels and variability in levels I have. When I was on Oxy I worked in a casual job with quite a degree of physical work included. The drug was enabling and improved the quality of my life. I have done a pain education program. During bad periods I need one hour of yoga, one hour of aerobic exercise and at least half a hour under a hot shower and 3/4 - 1hr meditation. Mornings are the worst - at least 2hrs to 'get going' including some of the 'therapies' mentioned.

I'm only going from first impressions.
What I am saying is that Oxycodone seems to have some properties that I haven't experienced in other opioids - namely stimulation and clarity and mood brightening/anti-depressant - no anti-depressant has produced an anti-depressant effect in me. If anything the emotional blunting has contributed to workplace and personal relationship failure.

If Oxy produced the same effect as codeine I wouldn't consider it.

The hepatotoxicity of acetaminophen is a real problem. I'd know if I accidentally double dosed on Oxycodone - you can perceive the difference and a double dose at the levels I'm talking about would be insignificant With acetaminophen the difference between a therapeutic dose and a harmful dose is small. Acetaminophen toxicity is insidious unless you have your liver enzymes tested frequently. From the wiki entry:

>Paracetamol overdose results in more calls to >poison control centers in the US than any other >pharmacological substance, accounting for more >than 100,000 calls, as well as 56,000 emergency >room visits, 2,600 hospitalizations, and 458 >deaths due to acute liver failure per year.[12] A >recent study of cases of acute liver failure >between November 2000 and October 2004 by the >Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (US) >found that paracetamol was the cause of 41% of >all cases in adults, and 25% of cases in >children.[13]
and
>In fact, the human toll of acetaminophen, in >terms of both fatal overdoses and chronic liver >toxicity to habitual abusers of pain medication, >likely far exceeds the damage caused by the >opioids themselves.

Further, the mode of action of paracetamol is not as well established as one would think for a drug that has been available for such a long time.

Given that it is not routine to test a patients hepatic metabolic genetics and given that SSRIs are commonly prescribed for depression and co-morbid pain I don't understand why my GPs haven't required frequent liver testing.

The assumed wisdom of the medical profession doesn't stack up well against evidence but try telling them that :-) Where is the objectivity? In the limited time available for a consultation you can only be so diplomatic and then some assume diplomacy is being devious. You just can't win.

Many doctors just can't be bothered applying themselves to a treatment regime that requires some ongoing effort and/or learning - yet my mothers local doctor wanted to see he every week for an injection (this had been going on for a decade) where there was an equally effective tablet alternative.

In Australia it would seem the fastest way to trial buprenorphine for combined anagesia/depression would be to present as a heroin user - I know this is a generalisation but I don't 'look the part' (no tatoo's, all of my veins intact, good dentition and not smart enough to be streetwise).

I'm sorry to hear about your injuries rina.

P.S I would have made an insurance claim over a case of workplace bullying if it wasn't for the fact that I had a psych-history that would have complicated matters and lead to more stress. An acute injury is more evident. I really feel like I'm at the bottom of the pile - indeed I am. It seems that the worse off you are the more you are _expected_ to perform the most herculean feats of self-recovery.

D


 

Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD

Posted by rina on September 5, 2007, at 1:10:07

In reply to Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD, posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 4, 2007, at 21:22:04

What - you stopped abruptly!? Did you discuss discontinuation with your doctor? I'm very conservative with taper rates and would expect if I used opioids that I'd need to reduce usage very very slowly and use other analgesics if pain flared during tapering off and be prepared to plateau for a while. Large dose opioid taper off could also benefit from a partial agonist/antagonist such as buprenorphine.

What taper off rate did you use? As the body has to repopulate receptors and learn to re-regulate it is going to take some time - again dose and duration of treatment dependent.

Yep!! At my doctor's approval. Thank God everything was documented and copied for me via that wonderful nurse that was later fired after I won the lawsuit and she also won hers as well for wrongful termination. Eventhough the MSContin was a very low dose, it still should have been titrated slowly under his supervision for onset and unexpected withdrawals. I guess he was so busy with his pro football and soccer players, he had no time for little ole' me. I'm sure he'll think and never forget about me or make that mistake with another patient again. As for me, I'll stick to not using the morpine. Experience can be the best teacher. It certainly educated me.

 

Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD

Posted by dmlvt on September 6, 2007, at 14:08:26

In reply to Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD, posted by rina on September 5, 2007, at 1:10:07

For a few years before my diagnoses for depression and ADHD and GAD, I had numerous prescriptions for Vicodin.

I have a history of sinus infections and headaches, and my previous doctor gladly gave me Vicodin for those. Then, I tore my ACL and I got more Vicodin while I was dealing with the pain from the injury. And then, I got Vicodin for a few weeks after my knee surgery.

I kept my dosage fairly low, but I could not believe how good I felt. I was starting to worry that I was becoming dependent because I would get nervous near the end of a bottle, when it was time to ask the doc for more. At the time of the surgery, I was dealing with a very tough work situation - a very competitive individual who wanted my job and used blatand dishonesty to try to discredit my work. In the end, he was laid off and I stayed, but the time I spent using Vicodin allowed me to function well at work without things boiling over with the other individual. The meds allowed me to like my job and get work done.

After I was finally diagnosed with ADHD and depression and I got treatment for them, I came to believe that the Vicodin had simply been giving me the same relief for a condition I simply didn't yet recognize.

In many ways, I would prefer to take a small dose of Vicodin every day ( was taking 2-3 pills per day) rather than a cocktail of Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Ritalin and Ativan. But, the latter four drugs are more acceptable to my PCP and my pdoc than Vicodin, so I go with what's available and what works.

But, I'd switch back to just Vicodin in an instant. Well, I'd at least give it a try. It's possible that my current relief is better than what Vicodin provided and I just don't remember the difference. I took enough of it over a multi-year period with no dosage increases and no withdrawal symptoms that I believe it could have been a long-term solution for me.


dml

 

Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D

Posted by opiateissue on April 21, 2009, at 3:09:44

In reply to Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD, posted by dmlvt on September 6, 2007, at 14:08:26

I am not surprised at all about the relief opiates produce. Opioids are literally a cure-all in some ways. I do not understand why they are looked at as worse than some other very dangerous drugs. If doctors just understood you had to taper or ween off them every time to avoid withdrawal symptoms they really are good for many reasons!

I understand the pain of withdrawing so I can see why that person was so upset and sued he doctor but now he's just going to avoid treating anyone for pain ever in his career. Instead of remembering to take a patient off slowly he's going to do the opposite and never prescribe pain relief so others will suffer worse. And the fact that they were too afraid to claim the detox for fear of her work finding out? Why if it was for legitimate reasons that you were on the pain pills? That seems crazy! If I had insurance I wouldn't be so nuts about stuff like that. It's that type of taboo that makes this world even more conservative and end cancer or other severe pain doesn't get sympathy and goes untreated all the time. People are so afraid of being sued they'd rather torture a patient.

Anyways I posted this letter to another site the other day and thought while on topic i could post it here too to hear others thoughts. But I wish people would lighten up and just face facts instead of making opiates out as evil. They are a necessary life saver for anyone who has had pain and if there wasn't such a taboo surrounding them I would have my other half seek them for his depression. He's proven to be responsible by avoid an increase or raising his tolerance like some abusers can do. He has self control and values them. But in America we have such a fear based system and we treat dangerous prescriptions like the high blood pressure medications and NSAIDS like candy and natural prehistoric medications like opiates like the devils drugs. It's insane! We also treat addicts like bad people. I should say that I know first hand many chemically dependent people who NEVER stole, lied or cheated for their addiction. many do but not all of them. Probably the same as people not using. I know a ton of people who lie, cheat and steal yet are not addicted to anything.

So go ahead and read my question and respond if anyone has anything to say on the subject.

Does heroin interact with Prozac?

Does heroin interact w/ Prozac (fluoxetine) or other anti-depressants? My partner wants Prozac for depression instead of heroin?

Hello,

My 32 year old partner / boyfriend of almost 15 years currently uses heroin for depression - quite successfully for almost a year now. He would like to start using an anti-depressant before he quits heroin to help overall with the transition / withdrawal. He needs to quit heroin ASAP for several reasons - mainly it's illegal, expensive, you have to snort it, and it's time consuming and scary to purchase.

He started his opiate addiction by taking pills like Norco, Vicodin, etc. on a regular basis for back pain and Migraines about -5 years ago and they worked really well for multiple symptoms. He noticed when taking the opiates, not only was it great for reducing pain but it actually stopped his depression or worked really well at controlling it. He slept well, was more socially active and wasn't the recluse he could be when not using opiates. He was just more himself in a way! He was happier (similar to how he was when he was younger and had less worries). He was basically the way he is when he's doing OK (if that makes sense). Using opiates for depression was kind of a phenomenon to us until we began to speak to other opiate addicts who all said the same thing. They began to use because of a legitimate pain reason and then discovered how they became more active, less socially awkward, or depressed when using the opiates. I attended several conferences on addiction and had experience with my parents so I found out after talking to many ex-users or current users that yes indeed they believe that opiates work well for managing depression. In fact many of them weren't getting high but the opiates kept them from getting low.

A little less than a year ago my partner was cut of from his opiate pill prescription and without health insurance he turned to a friend we knew that had end stage cancer and was supplementing his pain medication with heroin. He could have bought Oxycontin pills or other high end pain medication pills but it is actually more expensive than buying pure un-cut heroin. He obviously turned to heroin and immediately his tolerance for opiates went up and so did his opiate budget (although it is less than if he had turned to Dilaudid or Oxycontin - not sure if I spelled those right but they are both pills for severe pain as opposed to Vicodin or Norcos which are meant for more moderate pain).

He's been good about keeping his habit in control. Once he switched to heroin he has not upped his tolerance or budget (except for when he switched to heroin from pills). He has been using heroin just under one year and gets one gram of pure heroin which he then cuts with an inert vitamin supplement (for better nasal absorption and to make it last longer) making the one gram into 2.7 grams. Since he began he would require one pure gram for every 3-5 days. He would use more when he was sleeping less, working a bigger or higher demanding job, anything requiring difficult physical labor so that would put him more towards the 3 day. But on a typical work week it would last 5 days. Since he began his tapering several weeks ago he has gone from one gram every 3-5 days to one gram every 6-8 days. We hope to have him down to one gram every 10-12 days before switching to just one line in the afternoon (if he's feeling bad) and at night so he can sleep. Then finally switching to just a line at night to prevent insomnia. He's been good not stepping over the line or getting too out of control with the heroin because he has me to monitor his use and we don't have an unlimited budget. Already the $300 per week is not crazy expensive for us but it is not easy. He will never inject the heroin because of my parents negative experiences which is good for us.

But ultimately he still has a problem and would like to quit. The only down-side of quitting is the relatively medicinal uses he gets from the heroin - it helps with depression, restless leg syndrome, social awkwardness, etc. I am not sure why they never extracted part of the opiate molecule for an anti-depressant that doesn't have major side effects (they'd have to remove the addictive side of it - although most other drugs including anti-depressents are also physically addicting). They would also have to remove the part of it that gets you high. Although to be clear he doesn't get high anymore like he did in that first month (and even then he never took so much that he was nodding out, passing out, super high. He's not that type of user. In fact most people would never know he was using unless he or I told you. He is just maintaining his habit. They have extracted the anti-diareah medications like Imodium from the opiate molecule (opiates constipate you) so why has there not been more research on the other beneficial qualities it's good for?

On a side note - the opiates also help with sleeping problems such as insomnia and restless leg syndrome. Which I would normally laugh at the RLS notion except no one with restless leg syndrome really knows how bad their afflictment is until they ask their partner. I am the one who got kicked all night from the jerking. Not the falling asleep single jerk that can happen to anyone when they doze off. This would go on for hours and would be worse if he had 2-3 beers (so he stopped drinking) but the RLS was definitely there. We didn't know what it was until we saw those commercials. But the restless leg syndrome almost disappeared completely 4-5 years ago when he started taking opiates on a regular basis but I never knew why except when he would run out of opiates on occasion the RLS would come back strong.

I have quite a bit of experience dealing with heroin because both of my parents injected heroin for many years. I have also attended several conferences and my partners mother is an addiction specialist who has every book on the subject and who can speak about the subject. I know that tapering is the best method and have seen every method except the rapid detox where they knock you out for the major withdrawal or the ibogaine treatment but both are out of the question right now because that can cost anywhere from $5,000 - $10,000 or more not including the 1-2 weeks they require. We know cold turkey is debilitating and includes excruciating pain not to mention the insomnia, constant diarrhea, throwing up, hot and cold sweats, physical pain, mental cravings, etc. And unless you can take 2-3 weeks off work to deal with that it's not possible. I guess the worse part is that you're delirious from the insomnia and it's truly impossible to work in that condition.

One of the things we look forward to most after kicking his $300 a week habit is being able to afford health insurance so until then we can not fit it into our budget. the last 2 years we have seen a large decrease in business and are not able to afford anything extra because of the $300 a week heroin habit. For some they might laugh at that cost because they may have had $300 per day habits but I can witness that whether you have a $300 a week snorting habit compared to a $500 a day injecting habit (like my father did) the withdrawal is the same! So don't dismiss the size of the habit. You are still chemically dependent on heroin. And believe me when I say some of the most intelligent and kind people can be chemically dependent so this is not a moral issue. You can't out smart or out love your way out of chemical dependency. It truly is a disease and anyone who repeatedly uses will be dependent and in the same situation he is in. Of course we both regret that he made a very bad choice when he escaped a few bad nights of pill withdrawal and chose to switch to heroin for a few days because it is a much bigger ballpark when it comes to dependency. And when he never got more pills after 3-4 days he was already addicted to heroin and even if he had gotten the pills a few days later the mistake was already made. My point is that there is no going back. So without making him feel any worse about the awful mistake he made or the really bad choice we need to move on and figure out how to fix the issue and not dwell on a really big mistake he made once.

The question is that my mother has 30 40mg Prozac (generic fluoxetine) pills she wants to give us that she thought helped a lot when she kicked heroin. We researched prozac online and think it will help more than the natural options have (we've tried St. John's Wart and Sam-e). We would like to start him on 20mg per day making the prescription last 60 days instead of 30. (we plan to split the capsules in half).

Is there any danger or worry when mixing the Prozac with heroin? It is low levels of both but is there any dangerous interaction or is there any record of Prozac helping with drug or opiate withdrawal? Also, is it ok to split the capsules in half? I have read online of doctor's who suggested doing this to their patients if the dose made them nauseous. We'd like to do it for several reasons - first because the script will last twice as long and by the time he kicks the heroin he can afford to see a doctor to get another prescription if we feel the Prozac is helping the depression or over-all benefiting him. Secondly we want to split the dose because we want him to start out slowly. We don't want him to be addicted to both substances and hope the one will help him successfully ween off the other.

Please feel free to comment anyone or send me your comments, suggestions at the email depressionquestions@gmail.com or by posting your comments here.

Thanks for your thoughts, support, comments, questions, stories or advice in advance. BTW If you have complaints please shove them up you know where. I am not looking for people who want to waste my time with anything other than something that can benefit our specific situation and yelling at someone never helps in this situation.

 

Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D opiateissue

Posted by sowhysosad on April 21, 2009, at 4:13:35

In reply to Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D, posted by opiateissue on April 21, 2009, at 3:09:44

A friend started taking Prozac shortly after quitting smack and found it did great things for his mood and energy.

That said, he was getting the Prozac from a Spanish pharmacy without a prescription, so I'd still check with someone who knows more about pharmacological stuff. Although I do remember it was suggested by the drug dependency clinic where he was being treated.

In itself the Prozac wasn't enough to stop his addictive behaviour as he started using again a couple of months later, but it certainly helped his outlook after he first quit.

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD Deus_Abscondis

Posted by rose black on February 21, 2012, at 1:15:12

In reply to Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD, posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 3, 2007, at 13:30:24

Hi there Deus_Abscondis,
I have just been diagnosed witht he inactive form of ADHD. I too have had an experience on oxycodone which was that it was a stimulant effect which made me alert and stayed up all night.

I was injured a few months ago and had high doses of codeine. One night I wrote a complaint letter to the ombudsman which I had been putting off for months and would normally not be able to complete due to my lack of ability to focus and complete a task. (Always). However on the codeine I got the job done. It was a miracle.

So, I too would be interested to know what's goind on here in terms of ADHD or if there is any research about this. It definitely had be concentrating and that is a feeling I so rarely know.

I too am in Australia.

ciao

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD

Posted by sigismund on February 21, 2012, at 18:23:55

In reply to Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD, posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 3, 2007, at 13:30:24

This is the nub of the problem. The ones you can't get work.

>In any case even if these medications are the only effective ones I've ever taken, and could allow me to have a functional life, I still don't think I could obtain them in >Australia. Even if one medication helped me manage with pain and had the added benefit of fixing my depression/ADHD I doubt if I could find a compassionate doctor to >even trial them. It is extremely frustrating as I feel like I'm running out of options and the prospect of 'surviving' is losing it's appeal

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD sigismund

Posted by papillon2 on February 21, 2012, at 19:27:04

In reply to Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD, posted by sigismund on February 21, 2012, at 18:23:55

> It is extremely frustrating as I feel like I'm running out of options and the prospect of 'surviving' is losing it's appeal

Tell me about it. :-(

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD papillon2

Posted by sigismund on February 22, 2012, at 1:02:53

In reply to Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD sigismund, posted by papillon2 on February 21, 2012, at 19:27:04

This makes you laugh, doesn't it?

>the prospect of 'surviving' is losing it's appeal

I thought 'Oh yeah'.

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD

Posted by Rose Black on February 22, 2012, at 23:21:17

In reply to Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD Deus_Abscondis, posted by rose black on February 21, 2012, at 1:15:12


Yes merely surving is what i feel i've been doing for years. Just a passenger in my own life.

re-stimulant effects: I also find valerian does the same thing.... makes me awake, not sleepy as it is supposed to do.
Apparently this happens to a small percentage of the population (5 per cent or something). Maybe that's the same mob of people who are ADHD?

If any one knows of any research studies on this stuff, I'd love to know about it all.

 

Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D

Posted by Me2 on May 22, 2012, at 20:45:15

In reply to Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D opiateissue, posted by sowhysosad on April 21, 2009, at 4:13:35

>I was prescribed oxycodone for pain after my hysterectomy and I remember thinking that it was the first time I could remember that my soul didn't hurt (weird description I know). I was hoping this was a result of the surgery, but alas, it was the drug. I am a self diagnosed, nonhyperactive ADD. I was so intrigued with the prospect of feeling good, and knowing that I had a very limited supply of medication on hand, I went about figuring out the lowest dose I could take with reasonable results (no high, just focus, concentration, and only appropriate anxiety). I found that a single 5.325 mg tablet will last me approximately six weeks (if cut into doses the size of a half a grain of rice and taken every four hours). I'm sure people will say this is only a placebo affect, but after five months, I don't agree. Even the tonal quality of my voice changes when I take the medication, and people seem to be more comfortable with my calmer demeanor and voice. I am also able to stay on task (something I could only do for brief periods of time before the medication) and not wear out from mental exhaustion before the end of the day. I have enough pills to last me approximately 2 years . . . I'm hoping that, if enough people answer this blog, maybe this will be considered a treatment option for people who do not have an addictive physiology. For what it's worth, here's my two cents. I'll write back in two years and let you know how it turns out :)

 

Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D Me2

Posted by europerep on May 24, 2012, at 13:19:51

In reply to Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D, posted by Me2 on May 22, 2012, at 20:45:15

This sounds very interesting.

It happens every now and then that I come across people reporting on the internet that they felt significantly better after taking the opioids they were prescribed post-surgery, and sometimes I think "well, of course you feel better, those are opioids". Those tiny doses that you describe, however, are something different, especially if those low doses don't lose efficacy. Recreational users would probably laugh at you if they heard the doses you take, but that is precisely the difference (or one of the differences) between recreational and medical use.

I would be curious to know what antidepressants you have tried before. And keep us updated if you like!

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD sigismund

Posted by g_g_g_unit on May 25, 2012, at 8:17:32

In reply to Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD, posted by sigismund on February 21, 2012, at 18:23:55

> This is the nub of the problem. The ones you can't get work.
>

I was talking to an ex-junkie at a party about how buprenorphine (I think?) supposedly helps certain cases of OCD. He said if I wanted to get it prescribed, all I needed to do was poke some holes in my arm and walk into an addiction clinic. Of course, that isn't something I'd ever have the tenacity to do (though never say never, I suppose) .. but out of curiosity, does being on something like buprenorphine follow you around on a 'record' in Australia, i.e. would all treating psychiatrists know about it?

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD g_g_g_unit

Posted by psychobot5000 on May 29, 2012, at 15:01:03

In reply to Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD sigismund, posted by g_g_g_unit on May 25, 2012, at 8:17:32

> > This is the nub of the problem. The ones you can't get work.
> >
>
> I was talking to an ex-junkie at a party about how buprenorphine (I think?) supposedly helps certain cases of OCD. He said if I wanted to get it prescribed, all I needed to do was poke some holes in my arm and walk into an addiction clinic. Of course, that isn't something I'd ever have the tenacity to do (though never say never, I suppose) .. but out of curiosity, does being on something like buprenorphine follow you around on a 'record' in Australia, i.e. would all treating psychiatrists know about it?
>

For what it's worth, I don't think buprenorphine will be useful for focus and attention the same way oxycodone can be in some people. It wasn't for me, anyway (if anything, it damaged my focus). Buprenorphine is not equal to oxycodone, as regards ADD, though there's some recent research (small studies) indicating it can be useful for mood.

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD psychobot5000

Posted by g_g_g_unit on May 30, 2012, at 8:32:43

In reply to Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD g_g_g_unit, posted by psychobot5000 on May 29, 2012, at 15:01:03

> > For what it's worth, I don't think buprenorphine will be useful for focus and attention the same way oxycodone can be in some people. It wasn't for me, anyway (if anything, it damaged my focus). Buprenorphine is not equal to oxycodone, as regards ADD, though there's some recent research (small studies) indicating it can be useful for mood.

Ah. I guess I was looking at it more from an OCD perspective. That said, my grandmother has an entire box of oxycodone which he hasn't touched since it was prescribed (over a year ago); I've always been tempted to try it, though based on your comments, I feel like I might have to now.

Though it may be worse to know what I'm missing out on :-/

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD g_g_g_unit

Posted by psychobot5000 on May 30, 2012, at 14:00:39

In reply to Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD psychobot5000, posted by g_g_g_unit on May 30, 2012, at 8:32:43

> > > For what it's worth, I don't think buprenorphine will be useful for focus and attention the same way oxycodone can be in some people. It wasn't for me, anyway (if anything, it damaged my focus). Buprenorphine is not equal to oxycodone, as regards ADD, though there's some recent research (small studies) indicating it can be useful for mood.
>
> Ah. I guess I was looking at it more from an OCD perspective. That said, my grandmother has an entire box of oxycodone which he hasn't touched since it was prescribed (over a year ago); I've always been tempted to try it, though based on your comments, I feel like I might have to now.
>
> Though it may be worse to know what I'm missing out on :-/
>

Oops, I should have read your previous message more closely. Best of luck with whatever experiments!

 

Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D

Posted by TiredofChemicals on May 30, 2012, at 22:50:03

In reply to Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D, posted by Me2 on May 22, 2012, at 20:45:15

> >I was prescribed oxycodone for pain after my hysterectomy and I remember thinking that it was the first time I could remember that my soul didn't hurt (weird description I know). I was hoping this was a result of the surgery, but alas, it was the drug. I am a self diagnosed, nonhyperactive ADD. I was so intrigued with the prospect of feeling good, and knowing that I had a very limited supply of medication on hand, I went about figuring out the lowest dose I could take with reasonable results (no high, just focus, concentration, and only appropriate anxiety). I found that a single 5.325 mg tablet will last me approximately six weeks (if cut into doses the size of a half a grain of rice and taken every four hours). I'm sure people will say this is only a placebo affect, but after five months, I don't agree. Even the tonal quality of my voice changes when I take the medication, and people seem to be more comfortable with my calmer demeanor and voice. I am also able to stay on task (something I could only do for brief periods of time before the medication) and not wear out from mental exhaustion before the end of the day. I have enough pills to last me approximately 2 years . . . I'm hoping that, if enough people answer this blog, maybe this will be considered a treatment option for people who do not have an addictive physiology. For what it's worth, here's my two cents. I'll write back in two years and let you know how it turns out :)


That is very admirable and I am glad that you have found relief and comfort! I have definitely responded positively to opiates......I guess everybody does....???

I just don't have the internal fortitude as yourself to remain at a low dose. That has been my history anyways. I imagine I could and would, adhere to such a regimen if I was directed to do so.

^^^^ How's that for a "copout"?
I doubt that I would respond to such a low dose.....who knows....?? Maybe I would. I just know that I walk a very fine line of not abusing.

You give me something to consider so, thank you.

I hope that you continue to respond positively and you find peace and comfort. Maybe I'll be around in a couple years and hopefully you will keep us updated.

Kind regards

 

Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD g_g_g_unit

Posted by sigismund on May 31, 2012, at 17:04:27

In reply to Re: Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones stimulant effects + ADHD sigismund, posted by g_g_g_unit on May 25, 2012, at 8:17:32

>out of curiosity, does being on something like buprenorphine follow you around on a 'record' in Australia, i.e. would all treating psychiatrists know about it?

I don't know.....not in the past but maybe in the future with computerised records?

 

Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D

Posted by emmanuel98 on May 31, 2012, at 18:08:25

In reply to Re:Opioids,TRD,Oxycodones' stimulant effect+ADHD D, posted by TiredofChemicals on May 30, 2012, at 22:50:03

> > >I was prescribed oxycodone for pain after my hysterectomy and I remember thinking that it was the first time I could remember that my soul didn't hurt (weird description I know). I was hoping this was a result of the surgery, but alas, it was the drug. I am a self diagnosed, nonhyperactive ADD. I was so intrigued with the prospect of feeling good, and knowing that I had a very limited supply of medication on hand, I went about figuring out the lowest dose I could take with reasonable results (no high, just focus, concentration, and only appropriate anxiety). I found that a single 5.325 mg tablet will last me approximately six weeks (if cut into doses the size of a half a grain of rice and taken every four hours). I'm sure people will say this is only a placebo affect, but after five months, I don't agree. Even the tonal quality of my voice changes when I take the medication, and people seem to be more comfortable with my calmer demeanor and voice. I am also able to stay on task (something I could only do for brief periods of time before the medication) and not wear out from mental exhaustion before the end of the day. I have enough pills to last me approximately 2 years . . . I'm hoping that, if enough people answer this blog, maybe this will be considered a treatment option for people who do not have an addictive physiology. For what it's worth, here's my two cents. I'll write back in two years and let you know how it turns out :)
>
I know from experience I can't use opiates this way. I abuse them, build up tolerance, can't get enough. Buprenorphine is a bit different since it has a long half-life. I used suboxone to detox from oxycodone.


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