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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BBolling on May 19, 2012, at 11:03:08
Posting to see if there's anyone out there with similar symptoms who has found a solution. I had mild to moderate depression with mild insomnia for many years. In addition to Wellbutrin, which I took for years, I went on a small dose of Celexa for 3 years, which helped with anxiety and depression and improved sleep. I discontinued both drugs 16 months ago without tapering, but was on "sub-therapeutic" doses of both. Did not have immediate withdrawal symptoms, but a month or so later I began to have radical insomnia, deep-seated agitation, 24/7 trembling and shakiness, and depression that far exceeded any problems I had before I began the Celexa; these symptoms have basically persisted for a year and a half. Tried to go back on the Celexa but my body would not tolerate it (burning sensation, muscle jerks, increased anxiety). Was on and off a number of medications for 9 months, but my body and brain have become excruciatingly sensitive to all medications, and nothing helped. 4 months ago I began seeing a psychiatrist (with impressive credentials) who has suggested that the SSRI caused a brain injury (that this is highly unusual but can occur). She has tried me on non-serotonin based medicines for agitation (such as anti-convulsants for bi-polar) and supplements to help with brain repair. Nothing seems to be working. I have constant trembling/agitation across my entire body that seems unrelated to any immediate or circumstantial psychological strain; I still have severe insomnia; I have cognitive impairment (dizziness, spaciness, difficulty concentrating, etc.) made worse by exercise; I have depression either contributing to or resulting from this trouble; I am functioning at 30-40% and am in danger of losing my job.
I am not 100% sure that the brain injury theory is accurate, but it makes sense of the problems I've had. Don't know whether to look to medication to counteract the awful symptoms potentially created by medication itself or to avoid all medication and possibly wait years for the brain to normalize itself. Has anyone found a solution in a similar situation? Grateful for any thoughts.
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 19, 2012, at 11:32:21
In reply to SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal, posted by BBolling on May 19, 2012, at 11:03:08
I don't know what to tell you. I used to be a pill head. A few years, a concussion, and a severe psychotic epsiode later, I now take Abilify for a psychotic disorder and my IQ is back up.
I guess just treat the symptoms and focus on helping your brain help itself. All I can think of would be good nutrition+supplements. Maybe an Orthomolecular approach? It may not help your brain heal, but it might protect your brain from further injury and reduce the number of meds and doses you need to keep things going.
I'm sorry about this. Have you gotten a brain scan or anything?
Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2012, at 12:25:25
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal, posted by Christ_empowered on May 19, 2012, at 11:32:21
CE what a great idea an MRI wouldn't that show if the hypocampus is smaller? As one of my nursing newsletters said the hypocampus get smaller. I had them for lymes and then for loss of taste and smell and all said "consistent for age of patient". So I assume no brain damage. What a reassuring post. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2012, at 12:38:26
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal » Christ_empowered, posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2012, at 12:25:25
Intersting first hit on SSRI's do they cause brain damage. Just a read. Phillipa
http://truthman30.wordpress.com/2011/07/01/long-term-ssri-use-could-cause-brain-damage/
Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2012, at 12:44:55
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal, posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2012, at 12:38:26
I don't know that I buy all this but they say don't read the internet. Phillipa
Posted by gadchik on May 20, 2012, at 7:06:37
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal, posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2012, at 12:44:55
thanks for the links,p. very interesting.seems to be alot out now that psych drugs arent the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow.yet i also read articles about antidepressants being good for the brain,promoting growth of neurons.
Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2012, at 9:51:14
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal » Phillipa, posted by gadchik on May 20, 2012, at 7:06:37
Gadchik could you please post them the links that is? I'd appreciate it so much Thanks P
Posted by gadchik on May 20, 2012, at 10:35:58
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal » Phillipa, posted by gadchik on May 20, 2012, at 7:06:37
Ive been reading a book called Younger Brain,Sharper Mind by Eric Braverman.He says that antidepressants are known to help grow new brain cells.I will also look to see if I can now find the things Ive read on line and post.
Posted by gadchik on May 20, 2012, at 10:45:40
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal » gadchik, posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2012, at 9:51:14
http://neurospeculation.blogspot.com/2008/08/different-mechanisms-behind.html
read this,and let me know what you think?
Posted by gadchik on May 20, 2012, at 14:35:12
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal » gadchik, posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2012, at 9:51:14
Posted by gadchik on May 20, 2012, at 14:47:24
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal » gadchik, posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2012, at 9:51:14
"In the first episode of depression, there doesn't seem to be a smaller hippocampus, so this shrinkage has to develop over time. In our animal studies, we found that you can reverse these changes if you stop the stress up to a certain point."
Antidepressant medications can do that by controlling the release of stress hormones such as cortisol. "But there's also evidence that these medications increase cell proliferation in certain brain regions, and one of the attractive mechanisms is an enhancement of a new generation of new nerve cells, which are being replaced all the time in this part of the hippocampus," McEwen says
P, this is from webmd
Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2012, at 19:27:11
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal » Phillipa, posted by gadchik on May 20, 2012, at 10:45:40
Thanks first article stress leads to depression and thyroid does contribute to it. As part of HPA Axis to my understanding, P
Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2012, at 19:41:12
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal » Phillipa, posted by gadchik on May 20, 2012, at 14:35:12
Genetics makes one suseptible to both stress and development of depression. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2012, at 20:30:07
In reply to One More Phillipa! » Phillipa, posted by gadchik on May 20, 2012, at 14:47:24
Gadchik thanks still not so sure but will research more. First Webmd. P
Posted by CaffeinePoet on May 20, 2012, at 22:18:31
In reply to SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal, posted by BBolling on May 19, 2012, at 11:03:08
I went through a lot of insomnia, brain fog, forgetfulness, and even parasthesias several months after coming off of Effexor after 8 years.
Good news! I eventually was normal.
The insomnia alone will reinforce any negative cognitive symptoms. Shaking will reinforce anxiety. Anxiety reinforces all negatives.
It's not 'all in your head', but taking care of your mental health state is priority #1. Soothing your mind will give your body back the energy it needs to heal.
And right now, you can't soothe your mind on your own. I suggest getting very open to the idea of taking anti-anxiety medication or sleep medication, safely and as prescribed, on a regular basis.
Sleep is the first foundation to get the rest and respite that you need to start healing.
When I was ill, I started taking low dose clonazepam, I stopped reading boards to speculate on physical health, and I tried to get busy with other things. Prior to this I was extensively tested medically to ensure that they were not missing anything. . . . I concluded that they might be missing something, but that I could get my system back by giving it a rest. It worked!
Posted by gadchik on May 21, 2012, at 6:21:50
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal, posted by CaffeinePoet on May 20, 2012, at 22:18:31
That is so true about giving your system a rest,and sleep is so crucial.I found that out too,and had to take remeron plus klonopin,small doses though, to make my brain stop racing,so I could sleep.I got well because of it.
Posted by BBolling on May 21, 2012, at 17:53:55
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal » CaffeinePoet, posted by gadchik on May 21, 2012, at 6:21:50
Thanks for the many thoughts. I have desperately been looking for sleep, but it's been elusive, no matter what medication I've used. Without any medication, I can only get about 3-4 hours (whereas I regularly got 8 hours until discontinuing the Celexa). I was on Remeron for 3 months, and it got me 7-8 hours of sleep, but I felt terrible on it during the day (fogginess and fatigue) and finally tapered off it. Since then, the sleep has remained a huge problem. I've tried benzodiazapines, ambien, etc, but those usually only get me 4-5 hours of sleep, and cause serious agitation the next day after they wear off. Trazodone sometimes helps with sleep but it, too, makes me feel terrible the next day (dizziness, fogginess, agitation).
The question that hounds me is: do I need to go back on SSRIs even though an SSRI seems to have caused these horrible problems? Did it so affect the brain that I now can't live without one? And yet when I tried to go back on Celexa I couldn't tolerate it...
I've tried naturopathic stuff, diet modification, etc., without any success.
Thanks for all the responses.
Posted by gadchik on May 21, 2012, at 18:33:07
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal, posted by BBolling on May 21, 2012, at 17:53:55
good luck to you.I hope its true that "time heals all wounds"
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 21, 2012, at 19:58:03
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal, posted by BBolling on May 21, 2012, at 17:53:55
> Thanks for the many thoughts. I have desperately been looking for sleep, but it's been elusive, no matter what medication I've used. Without any medication, I can only get about 3-4 hours (whereas I regularly got 8 hours until discontinuing the Celexa). I was on Remeron for 3 months, and it got me 7-8 hours of sleep, but I felt terrible on it during the day (fogginess and fatigue) and finally tapered off it. Since then, the sleep has remained a huge problem. I've tried benzodiazapines, ambien, etc, but those usually only get me 4-5 hours of sleep, and cause serious agitation the next day after they wear off. Trazodone sometimes helps with sleep but it, too, makes me feel terrible the next day (dizziness, fogginess, agitation).
>
> The question that hounds me is: do I need to go back on SSRIs even though an SSRI seems to have caused these horrible problems? Did it so affect the brain that I now can't live without one? And yet when I tried to go back on Celexa I couldn't tolerate it...
>
> I've tried naturopathic stuff, diet modification, etc., without any success.
>
> Thanks for all the responses.BB,
You wrote the above with questions.
As to if the drugs caused what you describe and do you need to go back on SSRIs, even though you say that they {seemed to cause these horrible problems}.
Well, as to if those problems are drug induced, the answer is that they could be, for the drug manufacturer has to disclose what they know could happen to those that take their drugs. So if you have those effects from the drug, why would you want to go back to the drug?
Now there could be damage to parts of the brain from the drug, parts that {regulate} body processes such as sleep, and the others that you describe in this post and other posts. Now if you keep putting the chemical in the drug back into your brain, would that be rational?
Now if it is healing that you desire, I can help you. There is a thread started by me here titled, Lou's Little Garden. I intend to show how one can be led out of darkness and into a marvelous light and have healing and receive a new life. This comes from a Jewish perspective as reveled to me and there are prohibitions to me here from Mr. Hsiung that could prevent me from posting what IMHO could help you to heal, and prevent others from learning from me, and IMHO prevent me from saving lives and help people avoid getting a life-ruining condition or addiction. You could go to the admin board here and see more of that, if you like.
Now as I see your condition, healing could come true, it could happen to you, for you have a head-start. This healing is free and without price and can happen now. If this is something that you do not believe could be true, then reject this opportunity. But if you do believe that healing can happen, then take this opportunity to go to the thread here titled, Lou's Little Garden and we could hve dialog there.
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2012, at 20:46:13
In reply to Re: SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal » CaffeinePoet, posted by gadchik on May 21, 2012, at 6:21:50
When in 30'a I basically slept for two weeks trying to decide whether to take the stress of both nursing and college courses. The sleeping was a tired mind. I finally made a decision to drop out of the college nursing even though on Dean's List. Just take my needed college course, then take two years of RN school only. I had 3 kids at home at time. It sure healed me. Reminds me that the amount of sleep getting now isn't the amount I felt best at more than most but for all of life 9-10 hours a night. Know impossible now with ebay but will aim for 8.5 if lucky. Thanks for the reminder. P
Posted by 49er on May 25, 2012, at 4:17:20
In reply to SSRI-Induced Brain Injury / Protracted Withdrawal, posted by BBolling on May 19, 2012, at 11:03:08
Bbolling,
I find your post interesting.
There is a psychiatrist unfortunately not in my area who treats insomnia withdrawal issues by prescribing a microdose of lamictal (1mg area). That is about the only drug he uses as he feels that anything else will simply clobber the brain and be counter productive. He also uses supplements.
If you want, I can babble you his name and maybe your doctor could consult with him. It sounds like she sort of gets it but simply may be prescribing drugs at too high of a dose.
Unfortunately, as you found out, reinstating is a crap shoot.
> Posting to see if there's anyone out there with similar symptoms who has found a solution. I had mild to moderate depression with mild insomnia for many years. In addition to Wellbutrin, which I took for years, I went on a small dose of Celexa for 3 years, which helped with anxiety and depression and improved sleep. I discontinued both drugs 16 months ago without tapering, but was on "sub-therapeutic" doses of both. Did not have immediate withdrawal symptoms, but a month or so later I began to have radical insomnia, deep-seated agitation, 24/7 trembling and shakiness, and depression that far exceeded any problems I had before I began the Celexa; these symptoms have basically persisted for a year and a half. Tried to go back on the Celexa but my body would not tolerate it (burning sensation, muscle jerks, increased anxiety). Was on and off a number of medications for 9 months, but my body and brain have become excruciatingly sensitive to all medications, and nothing helped. 4 months ago I began seeing a psychiatrist (with impressive credentials) who has suggested that the SSRI caused a brain injury (that this is highly unusual but can occur). She has tried me on non-serotonin based medicines for agitation (such as anti-convulsants for bi-polar) and supplements to help with brain repair. Nothing seems to be working. I have constant trembling/agitation across my entire body that seems unrelated to any immediate or circumstantial psychological strain; I still have severe insomnia; I have cognitive impairment (dizziness, spaciness, difficulty concentrating, etc.) made worse by exercise; I have depression either contributing to or resulting from this trouble; I am functioning at 30-40% and am in danger of losing my job.
>
> I am not 100% sure that the brain injury theory is accurate, but it makes sense of the problems I've had. Don't know whether to look to medication to counteract the awful symptoms potentially created by medication itself or to avoid all medication and possibly wait years for the brain to normalize itself. Has anyone found a solution in a similar situation? Grateful for any thoughts.
This is the end of the thread.
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