![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rob Smith on April 17, 2012, at 11:08:49
So in 2000 I was put on Paxil 20mg daily and xanax .25mg as needed for panic attacks and SAD. By 2002 Paxil was increased to 60mg, then Seroquel 25mg was added in 2003 because panic attacks came back. Developed diabetes in 2007 and was switched to Cymbalta 60mg with 50mg of Seroquel. I was told to get off of seroquel also for blood sugar issues but never could and still work. Cymbalta/seroquel combo worked well for almost 4 years, didnt need any xanax for the last two years I was on that combo.I was even able to drive myself from the east coast to the west coast without a worry. December of 2010 Cymbalta pooped out and the panic attacks were back. I was switched to Effexor XR in 2011. Had to increase seroquel to 25mg 3x daily just to be able to eat and make it though work. Dr tried switching me to prozac from Effexor but I couldn't do it. Put me in such a chronic state of panic I couldn't work so went back to Effexor. Switch Psychiatrist and 900mg of Gabapentin was added (300mg x3). I was doing okay and was able to drop seroquel back down to 25mg just before bed. I was able to go out and do things like make it to my Dr appointments myself and grocery shopping etc. I still would get panic attacks if I ever got anxious about anything-(this was with Effexor XR @ 75mg, Seroquel @50mg and 900mg Gabapentin). My panic attacks were never this bad before I got on medications so I decided to get off them. I did not have the stresses in my life anymore that made me decide to get on meds in the first place. I got off of Effexor (took 5 months) and seroquel in Nov of 2011 but still took gabapentin. I did okay through all of December for some reason unknown to me or any of my other doctors.
Jan 4 2012 woke up with horrible nausea and anxiety. Wretched for 4 hours straight but nothing ever came up. After having a ultrasound of my gallbladder, a upper endoscopy, a food emptying study and a HIDA scan they found out I was getting bile reflux which was causing the nausea due to a spastic gallbladder. I could not eat any solid food for the whole month of January and February. Got off of Gabapentin in the beginning of March 2012 because without the other two medications and not eating anything all it did was give horrible acid reflux, massive mental confusion, dizzyness, rage and didn't seem to help the anxiety. By the middle of March I was doing better. No anxiety at home and was eating again. Had a follow up with the GI doc at the end of March. He put me on amitryptiline to get rid of the bile reflux due to a spastic gallbladder. After the first night of taking it I woke up throwing up, the runs and severe anxiety (chronic state of mental panic). I only took it for three days because each day the severity of the symptoms got worse. Since then its been a nightmare even with taking .5mg of klonopin 4 times a day. Can't eat, severe chronic nausea, barley sleep, body temp, pulse, blood pressure, blood sugar are all over the place, cold chills/ hot flashes, body tremors, blurred or double vision, ringing in my ears, mental confusion at times, walking around in circles or curled up in a ball on the floor crying. I've lost 60 lbs and cant work or even leave my house despite taking klonopin. I have read up on CCK (due to the spastic gallbladder) and anxiety and since my dad who also suffers from bile reflux and got panic attacks although not until he was 62 was put on ativan and that worked for him. So I got my doc to switch me from klonopin to ativan but that does not seem to be making much of a difference. I am still nauseated and have problems sleeping and have bad anxiety . What I do not understand is why did it take over a month after I got off of Effexor and seroquel for these symptoms to surface. The other thing I do not understand is did taking the amitryptiline for 3 days give me these severe withdrawals (What seemed like withdrawal)?
PD checked thyroid, liver, adrenals, pancreas, heart, etc. On paper I am perfectly healthy. Ive kept my A1C at 5.8 for the past 6 years without insulin. It pretty much got back to normal once I stopped taking paxil. I do not drink and am even off of caffeine.
Just don't know if I should try to tough it out longer or has all of the years being on all of these different psych meds (enzyme toxins as I like to refer to them) caused irreversible brain damage/change how my brain metabolizes things. Honestly I do not know if I can tolerate anymore withdrawal symptoms again. But if there is something that will make life somewhat normal again I will gladly give that a try because mentally I feel worse than I anything I could have ever thought possible. I did have a neurotransmitter test done back just before I got off of cymbalta. Pretty much everything was normal except for GABA which was low and explains why I was getting panic attacks again. I am going to be getting another one done here shortly either way. I would like to see whatif anything is off the chart low because it sure feels like it is.
Sorry to ramble on but unfortunately there are not any doctors around here that are going to really know and if they did be truthful about the long term effects of medications I have been. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated or if you have had similar experiences I would like to hear about them. Thanks.
Posted by Christ_empowered on April 17, 2012, at 14:30:05
In reply to off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Rob Smith on April 17, 2012, at 11:08:49
hey. I take Abilify+loads of supplements (Orthomolecular Medicine) for my psychotic+mood disorder. I do still take the Abilify, but that's 1 med, down from 4+ for years.
Since you don't have psychosis, I would guess that orthomolecular, maybe plus a low(ish) dose benzo, would be relatively smooth sailing. I say a benzo because, even though they cause dependence, they tend to be non-toxic and fairly predictable (and cheap as hell).
Just a suggestion.
Posted by Phillipa on April 17, 2012, at 18:33:41
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Christ_empowered on April 17, 2012, at 14:30:05
Was your gallbladder removed? Not necessary to have one. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 17, 2012, at 21:08:42
In reply to off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Rob Smith on April 17, 2012, at 11:08:49
> So in 2000 I was put on Paxil 20mg daily and xanax .25mg as needed for panic attacks and SAD. By 2002 Paxil was increased to 60mg, then Seroquel 25mg was added in 2003 because panic attacks came back. Developed diabetes in 2007 and was switched to Cymbalta 60mg with 50mg of Seroquel. I was told to get off of seroquel also for blood sugar issues but never could and still work. Cymbalta/seroquel combo worked well for almost 4 years, didnt need any xanax for the last two years I was on that combo.I was even able to drive myself from the east coast to the west coast without a worry. December of 2010 Cymbalta pooped out and the panic attacks were back. I was switched to Effexor XR in 2011. Had to increase seroquel to 25mg 3x daily just to be able to eat and make it though work. Dr tried switching me to prozac from Effexor but I couldn't do it. Put me in such a chronic state of panic I couldn't work so went back to Effexor. Switch Psychiatrist and 900mg of Gabapentin was added (300mg x3). I was doing okay and was able to drop seroquel back down to 25mg just before bed. I was able to go out and do things like make it to my Dr appointments myself and grocery shopping etc. I still would get panic attacks if I ever got anxious about anything-(this was with Effexor XR @ 75mg, Seroquel @50mg and 900mg Gabapentin). My panic attacks were never this bad before I got on medications so I decided to get off them. I did not have the stresses in my life anymore that made me decide to get on meds in the first place. I got off of Effexor (took 5 months) and seroquel in Nov of 2011 but still took gabapentin. I did okay through all of December for some reason unknown to me or any of my other doctors.
>
> Jan 4 2012 woke up with horrible nausea and anxiety. Wretched for 4 hours straight but nothing ever came up. After having a ultrasound of my gallbladder, a upper endoscopy, a food emptying study and a HIDA scan they found out I was getting bile reflux which was causing the nausea due to a spastic gallbladder. I could not eat any solid food for the whole month of January and February. Got off of Gabapentin in the beginning of March 2012 because without the other two medications and not eating anything all it did was give horrible acid reflux, massive mental confusion, dizzyness, rage and didn't seem to help the anxiety. By the middle of March I was doing better. No anxiety at home and was eating again. Had a follow up with the GI doc at the end of March. He put me on amitryptiline to get rid of the bile reflux due to a spastic gallbladder. After the first night of taking it I woke up throwing up, the runs and severe anxiety (chronic state of mental panic). I only took it for three days because each day the severity of the symptoms got worse. Since then its been a nightmare even with taking .5mg of klonopin 4 times a day. Can't eat, severe chronic nausea, barley sleep, body temp, pulse, blood pressure, blood sugar are all over the place, cold chills/ hot flashes, body tremors, blurred or double vision, ringing in my ears, mental confusion at times, walking around in circles or curled up in a ball on the floor crying. I've lost 60 lbs and cant work or even leave my house despite taking klonopin. I have read up on CCK (due to the spastic gallbladder) and anxiety and since my dad who also suffers from bile reflux and got panic attacks although not until he was 62 was put on ativan and that worked for him. So I got my doc to switch me from klonopin to ativan but that does not seem to be making much of a difference. I am still nauseated and have problems sleeping and have bad anxiety . What I do not understand is why did it take over a month after I got off of Effexor and seroquel for these symptoms to surface. The other thing I do not understand is did taking the amitryptiline for 3 days give me these severe withdrawals (What seemed like withdrawal)?
>
> PD checked thyroid, liver, adrenals, pancreas, heart, etc. On paper I am perfectly healthy. Ive kept my A1C at 5.8 for the past 6 years without insulin. It pretty much got back to normal once I stopped taking paxil. I do not drink and am even off of caffeine.
>
> Just don't know if I should try to tough it out longer or has all of the years being on all of these different psych meds (enzyme toxins as I like to refer to them) caused irreversible brain damage/change how my brain metabolizes things. Honestly I do not know if I can tolerate anymore withdrawal symptoms again. But if there is something that will make life somewhat normal again I will gladly give that a try because mentally I feel worse than I anything I could have ever thought possible. I did have a neurotransmitter test done back just before I got off of cymbalta. Pretty much everything was normal except for GABA which was low and explains why I was getting panic attacks again. I am going to be getting another one done here shortly either way. I would like to see whatif anything is off the chart low because it sure feels like it is.
>
> Sorry to ramble on but unfortunately there are not any doctors around here that are going to really know and if they did be truthful about the long term effects of medications I have been. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated or if you have had similar experiences I would like to hear about them. Thanks.Rob,
You wrote,[...Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...].
What I could tell you could have the potential to save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
Here is a video that I think could help in any discussion we may have.
Lou
To see this video:
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, Psychotropic Drugs: The Hidden Dangers]
This features Dr Gary Kohls... posted on Feb 1, 2009 ...the time is 6 min
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 17, 2012, at 21:18:57
In reply to Lou's response- » Rob Smith, posted by Lou Pilder on April 17, 2012, at 21:08:42
> > So in 2000 I was put on Paxil 20mg daily and xanax .25mg as needed for panic attacks and SAD. By 2002 Paxil was increased to 60mg, then Seroquel 25mg was added in 2003 because panic attacks came back. Developed diabetes in 2007 and was switched to Cymbalta 60mg with 50mg of Seroquel. I was told to get off of seroquel also for blood sugar issues but never could and still work. Cymbalta/seroquel combo worked well for almost 4 years, didnt need any xanax for the last two years I was on that combo.I was even able to drive myself from the east coast to the west coast without a worry. December of 2010 Cymbalta pooped out and the panic attacks were back. I was switched to Effexor XR in 2011. Had to increase seroquel to 25mg 3x daily just to be able to eat and make it though work. Dr tried switching me to prozac from Effexor but I couldn't do it. Put me in such a chronic state of panic I couldn't work so went back to Effexor. Switch Psychiatrist and 900mg of Gabapentin was added (300mg x3). I was doing okay and was able to drop seroquel back down to 25mg just before bed. I was able to go out and do things like make it to my Dr appointments myself and grocery shopping etc. I still would get panic attacks if I ever got anxious about anything-(this was with Effexor XR @ 75mg, Seroquel @50mg and 900mg Gabapentin). My panic attacks were never this bad before I got on medications so I decided to get off them. I did not have the stresses in my life anymore that made me decide to get on meds in the first place. I got off of Effexor (took 5 months) and seroquel in Nov of 2011 but still took gabapentin. I did okay through all of December for some reason unknown to me or any of my other doctors.
> >
> > Jan 4 2012 woke up with horrible nausea and anxiety. Wretched for 4 hours straight but nothing ever came up. After having a ultrasound of my gallbladder, a upper endoscopy, a food emptying study and a HIDA scan they found out I was getting bile reflux which was causing the nausea due to a spastic gallbladder. I could not eat any solid food for the whole month of January and February. Got off of Gabapentin in the beginning of March 2012 because without the other two medications and not eating anything all it did was give horrible acid reflux, massive mental confusion, dizzyness, rage and didn't seem to help the anxiety. By the middle of March I was doing better. No anxiety at home and was eating again. Had a follow up with the GI doc at the end of March. He put me on amitryptiline to get rid of the bile reflux due to a spastic gallbladder. After the first night of taking it I woke up throwing up, the runs and severe anxiety (chronic state of mental panic). I only took it for three days because each day the severity of the symptoms got worse. Since then its been a nightmare even with taking .5mg of klonopin 4 times a day. Can't eat, severe chronic nausea, barley sleep, body temp, pulse, blood pressure, blood sugar are all over the place, cold chills/ hot flashes, body tremors, blurred or double vision, ringing in my ears, mental confusion at times, walking around in circles or curled up in a ball on the floor crying. I've lost 60 lbs and cant work or even leave my house despite taking klonopin. I have read up on CCK (due to the spastic gallbladder) and anxiety and since my dad who also suffers from bile reflux and got panic attacks although not until he was 62 was put on ativan and that worked for him. So I got my doc to switch me from klonopin to ativan but that does not seem to be making much of a difference. I am still nauseated and have problems sleeping and have bad anxiety . What I do not understand is why did it take over a month after I got off of Effexor and seroquel for these symptoms to surface. The other thing I do not understand is did taking the amitryptiline for 3 days give me these severe withdrawals (What seemed like withdrawal)?
> >
> > PD checked thyroid, liver, adrenals, pancreas, heart, etc. On paper I am perfectly healthy. Ive kept my A1C at 5.8 for the past 6 years without insulin. It pretty much got back to normal once I stopped taking paxil. I do not drink and am even off of caffeine.
> >
> > Just don't know if I should try to tough it out longer or has all of the years being on all of these different psych meds (enzyme toxins as I like to refer to them) caused irreversible brain damage/change how my brain metabolizes things. Honestly I do not know if I can tolerate anymore withdrawal symptoms again. But if there is something that will make life somewhat normal again I will gladly give that a try because mentally I feel worse than I anything I could have ever thought possible. I did have a neurotransmitter test done back just before I got off of cymbalta. Pretty much everything was normal except for GABA which was low and explains why I was getting panic attacks again. I am going to be getting another one done here shortly either way. I would like to see whatif anything is off the chart low because it sure feels like it is.
> >
> > Sorry to ramble on but unfortunately there are not any doctors around here that are going to really know and if they did be truthful about the long term effects of medications I have been. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated or if you have had similar experiences I would like to hear about them. Thanks.
>
> Rob,
> You wrote,[...Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...].
> What I could tell you could have the potential to save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> Here is a video that I think could help in any discussion we may have.
> Lou
> To see this video:
> A. Pull up Google
> B. Type in:
> [youtube, Psychotropic Drugs: The Hidden Dangers]
> This features Dr Gary Kohls... posted on Feb 1, 2009 ...the time is 6 minRob,
Another aspect of the effects of psychotropic drugs is if they can increase suicidal or homocidal thinking.
If you could view the following video, I think that the facts depicted could be helpful in any discussion here.
Lou
To view this video:
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, Can antidepressants cause violence?]
This features Dr Moira Dolan...posted on May 8 2007...time is 10 min
Posted by TiredofChemicals on April 17, 2012, at 23:35:11
In reply to off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Rob Smith on April 17, 2012, at 11:08:49
I went through ten years of failed "treatments" of psychiatric medications, or chemicals as I refer to them now.
I have been off them for close to five years. I believe that I am dealing with a muscle movement disorder that was caused by psychiatric chemicals.
I was in pretty bad shape for a long time, not only while on the meds but while off of them too.
I'm not sure that I'm contributing anything significant here. I believe that I am in better shape now than when I was on the meds however.
Posted by zazenducke on April 18, 2012, at 9:54:39
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by TiredofChemicals on April 17, 2012, at 23:35:11
Don't give up.
Think the current anxiety could be akathisia from the imipramine/imipramine withdrawal? Benzos might not be as effective against that. Just as first aid benadryl might help a little.
Were you by any chance on Tagamet or some other med that might have interacted with the imipramine?
Follow your own heart. And if you think it is necessary to go back on ADs it doesn't mean you can't try again later to get off them. (Although you have experienced how difficult it can be.)
Posted by Rob Smith on April 18, 2012, at 12:35:42
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Phillipa on April 17, 2012, at 18:33:41
> Was your gallbladder removed? Not necessary to have one. Phillipa
Not yet. Doc wants me to try Bentyl to calm it down. I am afraid to try it. Lately I have been getting paradoxical reactions to everything I take. I do have polyps in my gallbladder so maybe it will be best in the long run just to get it removed sooner than latter.
Posted by Rob Smith on April 18, 2012, at 12:43:27
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by zazenducke on April 18, 2012, at 9:54:39
> Don't give up.
>
> Think the current anxiety could be akathisia from the imipramine/imipramine withdrawal? Benzos might not be as effective against that. Just as first aid benadryl might help a little.
>
> Were you by any chance on Tagamet or some other med that might have interacted with the imipramine?
>
> Follow your own heart. And if you think it is necessary to go back on ADs it doesn't mean you can't try again later to get off them. (Although you have experienced how difficult it can be.)
>
>
I don't think I was taking anything that would have cause a reaction. I did ask the pharmacist when I picked up the medication and specifically asked him if it will interact with any of my current otc meds. He looked it up and said no. Funny that you mention akathisia. Paxil at times would give me this a little bit. Cymbalta gave me restless leg syndrome really bad which its supposed to get rid off. I was at 80mg of paxil at one point but I was urinating myself and wouldn't know it. I was like why does my leg feel really warm and wet. According to my psych its supposed to have the opposite effect. :(
Posted by Rob Smith on April 18, 2012, at 13:10:58
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by zazenducke on April 18, 2012, at 9:54:39
Lou, Yes I am aware of the depression, rage and suicidal behavior associated with psych meds. This is why I had to stop taking gabapentin. I wanted to scream, yell, pick something up and throw it or just smash something or self harm. These would just come on all of the sudden. Never had any of these kind of thoughts before. Was almost impossible to control them. Paxil made me severely depressed. The sad part is that the first psychiatrist I saw diagnosed me with experiencing PTSD twice in my life(First time from what I went through growing up then the second time dealing with my ex wife self abuse and suicide attempts). She quit her practice so I had to see a different psych. He and the two others I have seen since have diagnosed me with some form of bipolar. Which I believe was caused by the meds. I did have times where I was way over confident and times of total euphoria and then times of really bad depression. None of which I had before taking medications. I have talked to all of my long time friends and non of them agree with bipolar diagnosis. One of them is even a licensed psychologist. I will watch the links Lou thanks for those. I did find a couple of site talking about how its imperative to take Omega3 fish oil for the Docosahexaenoic acid (which I have started) when getting off of psych meds. I am taking only 1mg a day of ativan (.5mg morning and .5mg evening) its the most I can tolerate but seems to help and not cause any adverse effects so far.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
Posted by Phillipa on April 18, 2012, at 18:46:27
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Rob Smith on April 18, 2012, at 13:10:58
Just wanted to add that gallbladder surgery can be done laparoscopically four tiny holes relatively simple unless the gallbladder is huge or can't be done for some other reason. Best of luck to you and please keep us posted. Many have had paradoxical reactions to meds. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 18, 2012, at 21:35:41
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Rob Smith on April 18, 2012, at 13:10:58
> Lou, Yes I am aware of the depression, rage and suicidal behavior associated with psych meds. This is why I had to stop taking gabapentin. I wanted to scream, yell, pick something up and throw it or just smash something or self harm. These would just come on all of the sudden. Never had any of these kind of thoughts before. Was almost impossible to control them. Paxil made me severely depressed. The sad part is that the first psychiatrist I saw diagnosed me with experiencing PTSD twice in my life(First time from what I went through growing up then the second time dealing with my ex wife self abuse and suicide attempts). She quit her practice so I had to see a different psych. He and the two others I have seen since have diagnosed me with some form of bipolar. Which I believe was caused by the meds. I did have times where I was way over confident and times of total euphoria and then times of really bad depression. None of which I had before taking medications. I have talked to all of my long time friends and non of them agree with bipolar diagnosis. One of them is even a licensed psychologist. I will watch the links Lou thanks for those. I did find a couple of site talking about how its imperative to take Omega3 fish oil for the Docosahexaenoic acid (which I have started) when getting off of psych meds. I am taking only 1mg a day of ativan (.5mg morning and .5mg evening) its the most I can tolerate but seems to help and not cause any adverse effects so far.
>
> Thanks for the replies everyone.Rob,
You wrote,[...I will watch the links...].
Could you look at this?
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20110902/msgs/996161.html
Posted by bleauberry on April 19, 2012, at 5:44:11
In reply to off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Rob Smith on April 17, 2012, at 11:08:49
I think you can do several things:
1. Revisit your past and see if there was anything that did help a little bit....whatever it was, at least now you have a clue as to what chemistry to be focusing on. With me, I got subtle clues about norepinephrine. So when I choose a new treatment it has some sort of predominant NE mechanism. Most end up being duds but I have found some life savers too, which I use as parachutes when I fall off a cliff.
2. Lower doses. Whatever you do, keep the doses really low. Like for example starting dose 1/8 to 1/2 the normal starting dose. If a med is going to be in the right direction for you, you should get a hint of that even at a tiny dose, or actually even more so at a tiny dose versus a normal dose. If it goes badly, withdrawal is much easier and faster.
All of the lab tests could be your worst enemies. Sort of like a judge sentencing an innocent prisoner to life behind bars wtih no chance of parole. Many people with apparently normal thyroid....but symptoms similar to thyroid....feel a lot better when they are treated as if they had hypothyroid anyway. The scales used vary from lab to lab and reflect only a general guideline of a large sample but do not reflect the individual variation within the group.
Many tests cannot be trusted. But doctors act as if they are Bible. They are not.
In other words, the clinical picture is more important than the lab picture. If one had to be discarded as the least useful, it would be the lab.
If your adrenals were not checked 4 times throughout a 24 hour period then they are worthless tests. A single spot in time tells us nothing.
3. Beef up your health in every way possible. That basically means learning a ton about foods and herbs. People can and do actually improve their overall situation simply by knowing the right stuff to put in the grocery cart and knowing the right stuff to not.
4. Try an alternative doctor for new ideas and a fresh approach.
5. Don't assume anything. Test, challenge, and confirm.
Your story sounds very similar to mine, except you haven't failed ECT like I did. Anyway, I'm in better shape now than in any of the days on meds, still not well but better than I was, and it has all been without psych meds. I use them only for emergencies and never more than 1 day in a row, never more than twice in a week.
What you want to accomplish, well, there are tens of thousands of people already doing it.....it requires a new twist in life....that is, learning about stuff the doctor will never teach you.
The areas you want to learn and treat:
1. Inflammation (from various hidden causes)
2. Toxicity (lead, mercury, plastics)
3. Occult infection (as in Lyme or similar)
4. Food medicines.
5. Herbal medicines, both western and Traditional Chinese eastern.
Posted by creepy on April 19, 2012, at 11:13:33
In reply to off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Rob Smith on April 17, 2012, at 11:08:49
There are long-term effects to meds and your illness can also progress and intensify. Its hard to say which is which.
If you have severe anxiety like that I would investigate some of the other AAP's. Small doses of seoquel only act like an antihistamine. You really dont want to rely on benzos unless you cant avoid it. Sounds like quitting effexor was bad enough.
topamax increases your sensitivity to your own GABA, might be worth a try. It may also help with weight gain, blood pressure and blood sugar control issues that some AAPs can have.
Most TCAs enhance norepinephrine as well as serotonin. That may be a sensitive spot for you with panic.
Ever tried blood pressure meds like prazosin or clonidine? Might be worth a shot too.
Posted by Rob Smith on April 20, 2012, at 10:16:48
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by creepy on April 19, 2012, at 11:13:33
> There are long-term effects to meds and your illness can also progress and intensify. Its hard to say which is which.
> If you have severe anxiety like that I would investigate some of the other AAP's. Small doses of seoquel only act like an antihistamine. You really dont want to rely on benzos unless you cant avoid it. Sounds like quitting effexor was bad enough.
> topamax increases your sensitivity to your own GABA, might be worth a try. It may also help with weight gain, blood pressure and blood sugar control issues that some AAPs can have.
> Most TCAs enhance norepinephrine as well as serotonin. That may be a sensitive spot for you with panic.
> Ever tried blood pressure meds like prazosin or clonidine? Might be worth a shot too.
>I think part of the problem I am having is withdrawals to seroquel. When I first started taking it I was only able to stay awake for about 5 hours a day. It took over a year to be able to work again. Its a very strong antihistamine at low dosages. I do not even know how much benadryl you would have to take to get the same effect. Histamines are involved in digesting and also a neurotransmitter. I did try cutting a 50mg tablet into 1/4's and taking one. I thought I would going to lose my mind. I have zero tolerance to it now.
Anything with Norepinephrine makes me feel like I am going to jump out of my skin. So I know I have to stay away from that.
I think I am going to try and get in with a good Endocrinologist. What I didn't mention before is that at age 5 I got Adrenal Cortical extract(ACE) injections. 3cc twice a week till I was 7. Then from 7-12 I got 5cc twice a week. Not to be confused this with adrenal cortex. I will not go into how or why I got them but they were not prescribed. ACE is most all of the adrenal hormones extracted from cows, sheep and pigs. These were outlawed for used in the US in 1976. :( I do remember feeling great as a kid prior to getting these. I became hypoglycemic really bad around 8 and still currently am. The only time I wasn't was when I was taking seroquel and paxil. My dad was in the health food industry his whole life so I grew up drinking juiced vegetables, fruits, wheat grass, taking hand fulls of vitamins twice a day. I do understand the importance of getting the proper nutrients into out body but honestly once I moved out and had a more normal diet I went 5+ years without ever getting sick. I used to run a 104-105 degree fever like clock work twice a year since I could remember. I had sore throats, ear aches, all of the time as a kid. Started getting random GERD at 12. Turn chronic when I was 18.
My vitamin D level is low and I am sure A and E are also because I started getting skin problems a couple of years ago. But this might be do to my gallbladder as these are fat soluble vitamins.
Thanks, I am aware that the gallbladder surgery is very simple and in some cases can be out patient. I have a friend that has had theirs removed this way.
My primary refuses to do anything that she feels is a symptom of anxiety. My psychiatrist can only prescribe psych meds. I have wanted to try a beta or alpha blocker but mainly propranolol as its most commonly prescribe for stage fright. I need to find an internist. The only problem is that I do no have health insurance, and I am not on disability so my resources are very limited. The only good Endo Dr that I know of that has experience with ACE injections is $400 an hour.
I have had a 12 hour cortisol test but honestly to me that is pretty pointless. It showed above normal from the time I got up to the last sample. Dr didn't seem concerned about it. No one has ever measured adrenaline, or other adrenal hormone levels nor had pituitary hormones been checked either. My electrolytes are spot on and I have had all thyroid levels checked on there different occasions by 3 different labs and they all came back normal. I am not saying that there still could not be a problem with them. I do think other things need to get checked that haven't as of yet to rule out the obvious at this point.
Mentally I am doing alright other then fear of getting a panic attack if I go out. I am not depressed, sad or anxious much. my memory is better than it has been in years and I am able to function better at work than I have in a long time. Physically I feel like garbage. I keep waking up feeling like I am gasping for air. I still get what feels like my insides are trembling every morning when I wake up. Funny if I wake up and hold perfectly still I do not get them if I turn over or get up to use the bathroom then I get them.
IMHO and experience Benzo's do not have the side effects that AAP do. Yes they are addictive but all of the psych meds cause chemical dependance and the potential of more harmful permanent side effects of AAP. Seroquel gave me priapism which I was never told about until recently. That has created is own set of problems that I am dealing with. AAP or at least seroquel can also cause glaucoma. Your supposed to get your eyes checked every 6 months when your on seroquel. No one ever did this or told me to do this. I got the random strobe light effect when I closed my eyes. This was from seroquel causing the muscle inside your eye to spasm. I got chronic severe eye pain as a result. Which I had the entire 9 years I took Seroquel.
I am really frustrated with Dr's atm. A family member has been on maxalt for several years for migraines. They were then put on zoloft!! There is a black box warning not to take maxalt with SSRI due to serotonin toxicity. There Dr is an idiot as are most I am finding.
Before the panic attacks came back and I was on Cymbalta and Seroquel. About two years ago 30 minutes after I eat dinner. I started getting this extremely strong ache under my left rib. It would subside if I stood up or laid flat. Both my Naturopath and GP thought oh its just gas or intestinal blockage. I still get it at times even when not eating. When I had my HIDA done I got this exact pain (even though I was laying down0 when they injected CCK. The GI doc does not understand exactly what this pain is. Hum.. Left side near bottom of rib. Pancreas maybe and not gallbladder? Although pancreatic enzymes all came back normal and they did check for any inflammatory markers. Which were also negative.
The plan is to get in with the Endocrine DR and go from there. I do believe that there is a hormone imbalance with something and that is the root cause of a lot of things.
I am going to do some more research on the gallbladder and decide if its something I want to deal with or just have them take it out.
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2012, at 21:16:20
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Rob Smith on April 20, 2012, at 10:16:48
Under right rib liver. Gall bladder pain tends to be in the right back area. Phillipa
Posted by Rob Smith on May 4, 2012, at 15:39:08
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now? » Rob Smith, posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2012, at 21:16:20
> Under right rib liver. Gall bladder pain tends to be in the right back area. Phillipa
Phillipa I am not sure what is causing the pain. Its very severe just left of sternum under the rib. Docs can't figure it out either. What is consistent is that I have had it for over 3 years now after eating and I also got it when they injected CCK for the HIDA scan. I just called to make a follow up appointment with GI doc. I tried taking Bentyl but all it did was make me more nauseated and give me the runs. I can't even take Benadryl. Its a mild anticholinergic.
Posted by Rob Smith on May 4, 2012, at 16:09:32
In reply to Re: off ADs after 12 years, What now?, posted by Rob Smith on May 4, 2012, at 15:39:08
Update. Well I have had a few times that I have gotten really depressed. The best way to describe is like a black blanket that someone throws over me. It hits fast and last for quite a while. I was getting this before when I was on medications. I started taking Chromium and it went away. A while back I did a lot of research on hypoglycemia. Glucose needs two things to be absorbed by soft tissue. Chromium and insulin. PPI's do inhibit the break down and absorption of nutrients and can also cause hypomagnesiumism leading to osteoporosis and other things. My naturopath says that high blood pressure can be a cause of low magnesium. Anyway got side tracked there. I started taking chromium again and the depression when away. Ativan is working well. I actually went shopping, to the bank and when and got a massage yesterday. That was huge for me. Anxiety seems under control. Still can't eat much. I do not think I mentioned before that back in 1994 I had 9 months where I suffered with chronic nausea. I lived off of Pepto bismol and immodium AD. Docs could never figure it out then either. I slowly got to where I was able to eat normally again but it took two years. I feel so much better physically if I do not eat. IMO I really think its my pancreas, blockage of the bile duck or Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction that is causing my nausea and not able to eat. Things that will make me sick and throw up are alcohol, chocolate, fatty meats or eating 3 decent meals a day. Still losing weight as well. Lost another 10-15 lbs. Had to by new clothes. Dropped 2 inches off of my waist and one shirt size. :( I do not want to get down to 120 lbs like I did before but if they do figure out what is going on that is where I am heading.
This is the end of the thread.
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