Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1015647

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions

Posted by maoiuser on April 15, 2012, at 13:05:43

this is simply my opinion and not medical advise..i have visited this board quite often over the years mostly to observe other people on MAOIs.... i have been on MAOIs for multiple years now and here is my story and conclusions........... i wish to know how my conclusion compares to other long time users of MAOIs.....i suffered from social anxiety for as far as i can remember..... i would go as far as to say that social anxiety can cause serious and even life threatening consequences....i started getting bullied from an early age.. no matter which situation i was in.... although the cause was unknown to me back then... it finally became obvious that i was crippled by social anxiety and gave an impression of being weak... i abused alcohol and tried multiple ADs but did not get lasting relief...instead i got severely addicted to alcohol and I am lucky that i escaped unharmed from it's crutches... i gave up alcohol and stayed helpless until i was finally put on MAOIs... i have never had a major food interaction and able to eat almost anything... the initial euphoria made me relapse but the relapse did not last too long... the sudden relief from social anxiety can be very dangerous... although not manic... i made multiple decisions due to not being experienced with MAOIs and the disinhibition.... decisions that i am not proud of and caused significant and in some cases irreversible damage to all aspects of my life... socially i did great in meeting new people but at least in the beginning.. i did poorly over all on the social level because i started to act in ways which were incorrectly perceived as selfish and harsh...,most people did not like the new me although if i felt good internally... on the other hand i also believe that the excess of dopamine can trigger multiple addictive behaviors that may not even exist before starting MAOIs... it took a while to even realize all of the above...

tried nardil and parnate... found parnate to be like a street drug where there was a high upon taking it and an eventual crash next morning... nardil on the other hand did not have this problem... on nardil i gained weight and suffered multiple side effects.... overall nardil is far more effective and makes me feel a lot better but the dangerous levels of disinhibition and disposition to addictive behavior is almost identical for both...

i think MAOIs are extremely effective but at the same time they can be very dangerous... apart from the sudden and unexpected changes in personality, it seems like once you are on MAOIs coming off of them does not seem like an option as I already made multiple failed attempts it could be that I really need the medication it took a lot of practice observation and selfdisciplining before i was able to handle the medication psychologically i still struggle though from time to time... it is possible to maintain a healthy weight on nardil the food cravings can be extremely bothersome and i have not been able to find a solution to that i wouldnt say they are less bothersome than anxiety.. although nardil led me to alcohol i also believe that it helped me stay away from it and give it up for good... i would say that physical side effects of nardil should not be the main focus of prescribers and at least in my case they are grossly exaggerated... on the other hand the psychological side effects and ways of coping up with them are mostly ignored...

i think nardil can be an extremely effective medicine but requires extreme caution close monitoring and accepting that it may not be possible to get the perfect body shape if on nardil or peaceful sleep.. unless you want to throw in other medications that can leave me groggy and disoriented.

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » maoiuser

Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 16, 2012, at 5:24:56

In reply to Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions, posted by maoiuser on April 15, 2012, at 13:05:43

I can confirm that, although I don't specifically feel high/manic, I've noticed an increase in impulsivity on Parnate.

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » g_g_g_unit

Posted by SLS on April 16, 2012, at 7:54:31

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » maoiuser, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 16, 2012, at 5:24:56

> I can confirm that, although I don't specifically feel high/manic, I've noticed an increase in impulsivity on Parnate.

Can you describe this impulsivity?

Impulsivity might be function of the lifting of depression and a rush to feel the sensation of reward that is still new to you. Then again, maybe not. If it is, it will take some time to find balance and learn to defer reward and gratification while more fully deliberating decisions.


- Scott

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions

Posted by zed25 on April 16, 2012, at 8:35:47

In reply to Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions, posted by maoiuser on April 15, 2012, at 13:05:43

hi
i don't understand , every time i go up the Nardil dose i feel so much energy and motivated but it lasts only for one day. why does Nardil energy effect doesn't last?? the fatigue has finally stopped. now i really hope Nardil will give my energy Posted Image(just for the record ive been on 90mg for 3 days)
my pdc has told me that once nardil kicks and i feel less depressed i will have the energy and motivation that i need. is that true?

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » zed25

Posted by SLS on April 16, 2012, at 9:49:21

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions, posted by zed25 on April 16, 2012, at 8:35:47

> hi
> i don't understand , every time i go up the Nardil dose i feel so much energy and motivated but it lasts only for one day. why does Nardil energy effect doesn't last?? the fatigue has finally stopped. now i really hope Nardil will give my energy Posted Image(just for the record ive been on 90mg for 3 days)
> my pdc has told me that once nardil kicks and i feel less depressed i will have the energy and motivation that i need. is that true?


Pretty much. Nardil can be quite energizing for some people once the full antidepressant effect develops. Let's hope that this is the case with you.

Good luck.


- Scott

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions

Posted by zed25 on April 16, 2012, at 10:14:56

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » zed25, posted by SLS on April 16, 2012, at 9:49:21

thanks Scott
have you been on Nardil?

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » SLS

Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 17, 2012, at 0:52:46

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on April 16, 2012, at 7:54:31

> Can you describe this impulsivity?
>
> Impulsivity might be function of the lifting of depression and a rush to feel the sensation of reward that is still new to you. Then again, maybe not. If it is, it will take some time to find balance and learn to defer reward and gratification while more fully deliberating decisions.
>
>
> - Scott

Hmm, well I do have prior addictive/impulsive traits like the original poster which I've found have been reactivated. Sadly, this has meant less control over alcohol intake, so I've decided to avoid it for the time being.

I guess I might describe it as increased social motivation (and decreased rejection sensitivity), which for me goes hand-in-hand with alcohol. Another example is - I recall being pursued by a girl who was theoretically 'wrong' for me while depressed. I deflected all of her invitations etc. because I felt so little self-worth and ultimately she gave up. On the other hand, while my sense of self-worth hasn't really altered, I've found myself quite intensely pursuing a different girl who's 'wrong' for me while on Parnate.

Much of my time spent depressed is in fact devoted to a 'rush to feel the sensation of reward' (i.e. food/TV binges etc.), so my hope is that, like you say, Parnate might allow for some balance.

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » SLS

Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 17, 2012, at 1:04:36

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on April 16, 2012, at 7:54:31

Scott, do you believe that anti-depressants (well, MAOIs in particular) can help treat addiction/impulsivity problems at a biological level, or would it depend more on the source (e.g. social anxiety)?

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:17:37

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » SLS, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 17, 2012, at 1:04:36

i think addictions develop as a coping mechanism for underlying problems (like social anxiety).. once that invisible line is crossed into being addicted then it is not so much about the underlying problem anymore because your brain circuitry gets modified over time. i dont even think addiction is about one particular drug at that point because after that line is crossed then even if you give up your primary addiction there is still a major void to be filled (anything that can release dopaine)... nardil can help fill that (not completely but for the most part)

can nardil cure addictions at a biological level? absolutely not... i can confirm from my experience that it does not.. in fact an indulgence in any addictive behavior (which impacts your dopamine levels) can cause me to over indulge. if you already had an addiction you could be risking serious consequences.. i would also suggest that even if you did not have any addictions then you should be very careful when indulging in addictive behaviors... better to not risk it at all!

however if you can manage to stay away from your past addiction and do not pick up another addiction to fill a void then being addiction free is a lot more easier... if that makes sense.

prior to nardil i missed alcohol a lot... even a year of abstinence did not help with that feeling of missing that drug (alcohol) and looking at people who were drinkin and enjoying would make me crave it a lot....

whereas on nardil you may experience cravings and it may be even harder to resist them at first but if you hang on tight then over time you will find that you dont even miss alcohol much...

another example would be that nardil is used sometimes to cure addiction to tobacco.. i had similar experiences where if i indulged in tobacco i would binge but if i did not indulge in it i wouldnt crave it as much as i would without nardil.

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:27:16

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on April 16, 2012, at 7:54:31

parnate impacts mao-B more than it impacts mao-A.. there is a lot of dopamine flowing in the brain to be used..you can see multiple scientific articles detailing the link of dopamine to impulsitivity and addictions..
i didnt find parnate to be a lot more different from amphetamine or any other strong stimulant. infact i had people tell me that i looked like i was a tweaker.
just like other stimulants the crash can be harsh... to the point that if i was close to running out of my prescription i would be getting very uncomfortable and would go beyond my way to get it filled.

nardil is different in that sense.. i am at a point where i dont even like taking the medicine anymore.. sometimes i would just not take it for a couple of days until i would feel like i got hit by depressive and anxiety related symptoms along with other maoi withdrawal effects..

 

to g_g_g_unit

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:29:29

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » SLS, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 17, 2012, at 1:04:36

i think addictions develop as a coping mechanism for underlying problems (like social anxiety).. once that invisible line is crossed into being addicted then it is not so much about the underlying problem anymore because your brain circuitry gets modified over time. i dont even think addiction is about one particular drug at that point because after that line is crossed then even if you give up your primary addiction there is still a major void to be filled (anything that can release dopaine)... nardil can help fill that (not completely but for the most part)

can nardil cure addictions at a biological level? absolutely not... i can confirm from my experience that it does not.. in fact an indulgence in any addictive behavior (which impacts your dopamine levels) can cause me to over indulge. if you already had an addiction you could be risking serious consequences.. i would also suggest that even if you did not have any addictions then you should be very careful when indulging in addictive behaviors... better to not risk it at all!

however if you can manage to stay away from your past addiction and do not pick up another addiction to fill a void then being addiction free is a lot more easier... if that makes sense.

prior to nardil i missed alcohol a lot... even a year of abstinence did not help with that feeling of missing that drug (alcohol) and looking at people who were drinkin and enjoying would make me crave it a lot....

whereas on nardil you may experience cravings and it may be even harder to resist them at first but if you hang on tight then over time you will find that you dont even miss alcohol much...

another example would be that nardil is used sometimes to cure addiction to tobacco.. i had similar experiences where if i indulged in tobacco i would binge but if i did not indulge in it i wouldnt crave it as much as i would without nardil.


> Scott, do you believe that anti-depressants (well, MAOIs in particular) can help treat addiction/impulsivity problems at a biological level, or would it depend more on the source (e.g. social anxiety)?

 

to SLS

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:30:31

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on April 16, 2012, at 7:54:31

parnate impacts mao-B more than it impacts mao-A.. there is a lot of dopamine flowing in the brain to be used..you can see multiple scientific articles detailing the link of dopamine to impulsitivity and addictions..

i didnt find parnate to be a lot more different from amphetamine or any other strong stimulant. infact i had people tell me that i looked like i was a tweaker.

just like other stimulants the crash can be harsh... to the point that if i was close to running out of my prescription i would be getting very uncomfortable and would go beyond my way to get it filled.

nardil is different in that sense.. i am at a point where i dont even like taking the medicine anymore.. sometimes i would just not take it for a couple of days until i would feel like i got hit by depressive and anxiety related symptoms along with other maoi withdrawal effects..

> > I can confirm that, although I don't specifically feel high/manic, I've noticed an increase in impulsivity on Parnate.
>
> Can you describe this impulsivity?
>
> Impulsivity might be function of the lifting of depression and a rush to feel the sensation of reward that is still new to you. Then again, maybe not. If it is, it will take some time to find balance and learn to defer reward and gratification while more fully deliberating decisions.
>
>
> - Scott

 

sorry about multiple posts

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:31:50

In reply to to SLS, posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:30:31

sorry about the multiple posts... i did not properly address them at first.

 

to zed25

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:40:38

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions, posted by zed25 on April 16, 2012, at 8:35:47

i am assuming you are new to nardil? i would suggest to be patient.. past the initial mania like episode it does take a few months before i actually started to understand what the medicine was all about..
just like many people i tried to recapture that initial high... i wish i could get that strong sense of energy and motivation by increasing dosage that i had in the beginning but i have not been able to achieve that...
its called homeostasis..

although i would advise against using nardil as a hard drug like alcohol or benzodiazepines (i personally hate benzodiazepines and i find them to be just as addictive and dangerous as hard drugs) but if you must then you can stick to a smaller dosage that keeps your symptoms away and close to an important occasion where you need that extra boost you can increase the dosage... i do that every thursday, friday and saturday when i am usually expected to go meet friends or socialize...

> hi
> i don't understand , every time i go up the Nardil dose i feel so much energy and motivated but it lasts only for one day. why does Nardil energy effect doesn't last?? the fatigue has finally stopped. now i really hope Nardil will give my energy Posted Image(just for the record ive been on 90mg for 3 days)
> my pdc has told me that once nardil kicks and i feel less depressed i will have the energy and motivation that i need. is that true?

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » g_g_g_unit

Posted by SLS on April 17, 2012, at 7:49:09

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » SLS, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 17, 2012, at 1:04:36

> Scott, do you believe that anti-depressants (well, MAOIs in particular) can help treat addiction/impulsivity problems at a biological level, or would it depend more on the source (e.g. social anxiety)?

I think you are right in saying that it is important to ascertain the type of impulsiveness and its sources before choosing to treat it pharmacologically. For instance, Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) is a drug that is used for some types of impulsive anger issues. However, increased impulsivity can be a side effect. Abilify is a drug that can help with cocaine addiction by mitigating cravings. I don't know if it would be helpful in behavioral impulsiveness, though. If you were self-injuring, I would recommend researching naltrexone or naloxone.

At this point, I would be reluctant to suggest a course of action without knowing more. If your impulsivity included anger, Trileptal would be the most attractive choice, especially since it can help as a mood-stabilizer as well.

Perhaps a psychotherapeutic intervention would be sufficient.

Is there any BPD stuff going on?

Do you gamble?


- Scott

 

Re: to SLS » maoiuser

Posted by SLS on April 17, 2012, at 7:57:05

In reply to to SLS, posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:30:31

> parnate impacts mao-B more than it impacts mao-A.

Not by much. Besides, people who add a SRI to Parnate get serotonin syndrome.

> there is a lot of dopamine flowing in the brain to be used..you can see multiple scientific articles detailing the link of dopamine to impulsitivity and addictions.

Yes. I don't know what point you are trying to making, though.

> i didnt find parnate to be a lot more different from amphetamine or any other strong stimulant.

That's too bad.


- Scott

 

to g_g_g_unit

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 8:07:02

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » SLS, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 17, 2012, at 0:52:46

at one point when i maintained my weight and excercised i did feel my self-worth improved significantly..now that is not the case as i put on tremendous amount of weight and my self worth is even lower than what it used to be prior to nardil...
when at one point it improved so much that i had to loose certain friends who were too used to seeing me self loathe and be weak.. these people would always be around offering advise when i was self loathing and weak but unfortunately it seems as though they were using me for their own self worth.. were they good people or bad people? that is a very difficult question to answer..

if you are here posting that you actually feel that the girl may be "wrong" then i do not see where the problem is... when i couldnt handle maois i did not know the difference between right and wrong..if you are more accepting of others then that may be a good thing but if you are starting to accept people who can do you more harm then good then that may be a problem..

i would advise not to evaluate everything from the perspective of the nardil... nardil can alleviate your symptoms.. you may still need a lot of self-evaluation along with some social training (self-help books or psychologist) to get the maximum benefit..and a lot of practice and self discipline..

if i look back now a couple of years i see that starting nardil after the laundry list of medicines was like starting a new life and i was not ready for it at first... i didnt even know what life would be like without the illness i suffered for as long as i can remember..

i still get depressed and i still feel anxious and i still feel rejected and i still get angry (although initially all of the anxious and depressing feelings were wiped during the initial mania like high).. but i must say that now all of these feelings are very much similar to other normal people..


> > Can you describe this impulsivity?
> >
> > Impulsivity might be function of the lifting of depression and a rush to feel the sensation of reward that is still new to you. Then again, maybe not. If it is, it will take some time to find balance and learn to defer reward and gratification while more fully deliberating decisions.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Hmm, well I do have prior addictive/impulsive traits like the original poster which I've found have been reactivated. Sadly, this has meant less control over alcohol intake, so I've decided to avoid it for the time being.
>
> I guess I might describe it as increased social motivation (and decreased rejection sensitivity), which for me goes hand-in-hand with alcohol. Another example is - I recall being pursued by a girl who was theoretically 'wrong' for me while depressed. I deflected all of her invitations etc. because I felt so little self-worth and ultimately she gave up. On the other hand, while my sense of self-worth hasn't really altered, I've found myself quite intensely pursuing a different girl who's 'wrong' for me while on Parnate.
>
> Much of my time spent depressed is in fact devoted to a 'rush to feel the sensation of reward' (i.e. food/TV binges etc.), so my hope is that, like you say, Parnate might allow for some balance.
>

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 8:22:54

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on April 17, 2012, at 7:49:09

coffee, sex, gambling, pot, anger, food and even tobacco... i never over indulged in any of those prior to being introduced to maois.

within a few months of starting maois i over indulged in all of the above..

with the exception of food, sex and pot i have not touched anything in the above list in a long long time.. food i do over indulge in but not sex and pot anymore..

i am not sure how naltrexone would work with maois? adding an opiod antagonist would minimize the impact of endorphins and i would certainly not want that if that were to happen..sex and runners high are very important to me :)

> > Scott, do you believe that anti-depressants (well, MAOIs in particular) can help treat addiction/impulsivity problems at a biological level, or would it depend more on the source (e.g. social anxiety)?
>
> I think you are right in saying that it is important to ascertain the type of impulsiveness and its sources before choosing to treat it pharmacologically. For instance, Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) is a drug that is used for some types of impulsive anger issues. However, increased impulsivity can be a side effect. Abilify is a drug that can help with cocaine addiction by mitigating cravings. I don't know if it would be helpful in behavioral impulsiveness, though. If you were self-injuring, I would recommend researching naltrexone or naloxone.
>
> At this point, I would be reluctant to suggest a course of action without knowing more. If your impulsivity included anger, Trileptal would be the most attractive choice, especially since it can help as a mood-stabilizer as well.
>
> Perhaps a psychotherapeutic intervention would be sufficient.
>
> Is there any BPD stuff going on?
>
> Do you gamble?
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re: to SLS

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 8:33:33

In reply to Re: to SLS » maoiuser, posted by SLS on April 17, 2012, at 7:57:05

indeed.. i didnt mean to imply that parnate does not impact mao-A.. i think not only does parnate impact mao-B more but it also acts as a DRI (as documented in the literature)..i do not feel like i am on amphetamine on nardil.. amphetamine is a DRI.

i was referring to the point that parnate can increase impulsitivity and with more dopamine flowing in the brain i would assume that impulsive and addictive behaviors will be more rewarding.. nardil is not immune to that effect as it also hits mao-B but i have certainly noticed that impusitivity and addictive behaviors are more pronounced with parnate..

those were simply my reactions to parnate and i am sure that others may not have similar reactions... the parnate crash, impulsitivity and lesser impact on social anxiety than nardil were the main reasons i switched to nardil.. i do wish i did not react that way because parnate has very minimal physical side effects like weight gain..

> > parnate impacts mao-B more than it impacts mao-A.
>
> Not by much. Besides, people who add a SRI to Parnate get serotonin syndrome.
>
> > there is a lot of dopamine flowing in the brain to be used..you can see multiple scientific articles detailing the link of dopamine to impulsitivity and addictions.
>
> Yes. I don't know what point you are trying to making, though.
>
> > i didnt find parnate to be a lot more different from amphetamine or any other strong stimulant.
>
> That's too bad.
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » SLS

Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 17, 2012, at 8:35:57

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on April 17, 2012, at 7:49:09

> I think you are right in saying that it is important to ascertain the type of impulsiveness and its sources before choosing to treat it pharmacologically. For instance, Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) is a drug that is used for some types of impulsive anger issues. However, increased impulsivity can be a side effect. Abilify is a drug that can help with cocaine addiction by mitigating cravings. I don't know if it would be helpful in behavioral impulsiveness, though. If you were self-injuring, I would recommend researching naltrexone or naloxone.
>
> At this point, I would be reluctant to suggest a course of action without knowing more. If your impulsivity included anger, Trileptal would be the most attractive choice, especially since it can help as a mood-stabilizer as well.
>
> Perhaps a psychotherapeutic intervention would be sufficient.
>
> Is there any BPD stuff going on?
>
> Do you gamble?
>

For me, it's hard to draw a line between dysthymia/ADD issues and addiction. I know that, since childhood, I've been drawn to instantly gratifying, highly stimulating activities like video games. I was otherwise able to maintain a relatively normal though unfulfilling life where everything I did was underlined by a subtle sense of boredom and dissatisfaction. Whether this was related to not being able to sufficiently concentrate on said activities, I don't know.

But when my OCD began, at 19, I developed a taste for alcohol and remember finding substance (ab)use far more pleasurable than anything else I'd known up until that point.

So I believe I have some kind of predisposition towards addiction that might be partially mediated by ADD and dysthymia, and which is exacerbated by OCD and social anxiety.

I don't really have any problems with anger and impulsivity. I tried gambling a couple of times and probably would have been hooked if I had the cashflow, but everything I make goes towards seeing my psychiatrist and psychologist, so that isn't really an option.

I have noticed that, when under the influence of Parnate's stimulant effect, I'm far less likely to crave things (chocolate, internet, webchat), but that, during withdrawal,the opposite is true.

 

Re: to g_g_g_unit » maoiuser

Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 17, 2012, at 8:42:53

In reply to to g_g_g_unit, posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:29:29

You're right. Now that I'm an 'addict', I am always in search of something to fill the void.

I smoke occasionally. I find tobacco harder to resist on Parnate, though most of my impulsivity was linked to the initial euphoria. Now that it's passed, I feel either a little depressed or relatively 'normal' on 30mg a day and don't find myself craving much of anything. Still, I find myself engaging in certain addictive pastimes (surfing the web, etc.) out of compulsivity/boredom.

When I said the girl was 'wrong', I meant that I would not date her. However, I find myself still wanting to sleep with her even though I know this would cause problems (she would expect me to date her, and there's some overlap in our friend circles, so it isn't a good decision in the long-term).

> i think addictions develop as a coping mechanism for underlying problems (like social anxiety).. once that invisible line is crossed into being addicted then it is not so much about the underlying problem anymore because your brain circuitry gets modified over time. i dont even think addiction is about one particular drug at that point because after that line is crossed then even if you give up your primary addiction there is still a major void to be filled (anything that can release dopaine)... nardil can help fill that (not completely but for the most part)
>
> can nardil cure addictions at a biological level? absolutely not... i can confirm from my experience that it does not.. in fact an indulgence in any addictive behavior (which impacts your dopamine levels) can cause me to over indulge. if you already had an addiction you could be risking serious consequences.. i would also suggest that even if you did not have any addictions then you should be very careful when indulging in addictive behaviors... better to not risk it at all!
>
> however if you can manage to stay away from your past addiction and do not pick up another addiction to fill a void then being addiction free is a lot more easier... if that makes sense.
>
> prior to nardil i missed alcohol a lot... even a year of abstinence did not help with that feeling of missing that drug (alcohol) and looking at people who were drinkin and enjoying would make me crave it a lot....
>
> whereas on nardil you may experience cravings and it may be even harder to resist them at first but if you hang on tight then over time you will find that you dont even miss alcohol much...
>
> another example would be that nardil is used sometimes to cure addiction to tobacco.. i had similar experiences where if i indulged in tobacco i would binge but if i did not indulge in it i wouldnt crave it as much as i would without nardil.
>
>
> > Scott, do you believe that anti-depressants (well, MAOIs in particular) can help treat addiction/impulsivity problems at a biological level, or would it depend more on the source (e.g. social anxiety)?
>
>

 

to g_g_g_unit

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 8:51:31

In reply to Re: Multiple years on MAOIs and my conclusions » SLS, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 17, 2012, at 8:35:57

interesting.. have you tried nardil? in reference to the fading stimulatory effects i found parnate to be very short acting.. less than 24 hours and i personally hated that roller coaster..

nardil is smooth and for some reason i tend to enjoy things a lot more on it as compared to parnate (hiking, socializing etc)..

i know it appears that i am advertising for nardil here but that is definitely not my intention.. i am simply using my experiences as an example.. your doctor will know the best course of action for you..


my primary issues were social anxiety and an excessive amount of OCD which led to an addiction t o alcohol..

although i occasionally tried hard drugs but ever since i have been on maois the thought that indulging in them will kill me is enough of a demotivator (be cautious that over indulgence in alcohol can make you forget the consequences of ingesting hard drugs! the one and only time where i relapsed i was just about to take a hard drug that would have led to seazures and would have killed me if my good friend who knew about my maoi intake wasn't around) but that too was a couple of years ago..


> > I think you are right in saying that it is important to ascertain the type of impulsiveness and its sources before choosing to treat it pharmacologically. For instance, Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) is a drug that is used for some types of impulsive anger issues. However, increased impulsivity can be a side effect. Abilify is a drug that can help with cocaine addiction by mitigating cravings. I don't know if it would be helpful in behavioral impulsiveness, though. If you were self-injuring, I would recommend researching naltrexone or naloxone.
> >
> > At this point, I would be reluctant to suggest a course of action without knowing more. If your impulsivity included anger, Trileptal would be the most attractive choice, especially since it can help as a mood-stabilizer as well.
> >
> > Perhaps a psychotherapeutic intervention would be sufficient.
> >
> > Is there any BPD stuff going on?
> >
> > Do you gamble?
> >
>
> For me, it's hard to draw a line between dysthymia/ADD issues and addiction. I know that, since childhood, I've been drawn to instantly gratifying, highly stimulating activities like video games. I was otherwise able to maintain a relatively normal though unfulfilling life where everything I did was underlined by a subtle sense of boredom and dissatisfaction. Whether this was related to not being able to sufficiently concentrate on said activities, I don't know.
>
> But when my OCD began, at 19, I developed a taste for alcohol and remember finding substance (ab)use far more pleasurable than anything else I'd known up until that point.
>
> So I believe I have some kind of predisposition towards addiction that might be partially mediated by ADD and dysthymia, and which is exacerbated by OCD and social anxiety.
>
> I don't really have any problems with anger and impulsivity. I tried gambling a couple of times and probably would have been hooked if I had the cashflow, but everything I make goes towards seeing my psychiatrist and psychologist, so that isn't really an option.
>
> I have noticed that, when under the influence of Parnate's stimulant effect, I'm far less likely to crave things (chocolate, internet, webchat), but that, during withdrawal,the opposite is true.

 

Re: to zed25

Posted by zed25 on April 17, 2012, at 8:57:19

In reply to to zed25, posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:40:38

did Nardil at least cure your depression?

 

to maoiuser

Posted by zed25 on April 17, 2012, at 9:01:27

In reply to to zed25, posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 7:40:38

may i have your email address?

 

Re: to g_g_g_unit

Posted by maoiuser on April 17, 2012, at 9:04:53

In reply to Re: to g_g_g_unit » maoiuser, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 17, 2012, at 8:42:53

I agree with SLS about naloxone.. if you find yourself running into addictive behaviors and having a hard time with it..if i could go back i would ask my doctor to prescribe it when he initially prescribed MAOIs and i could have saved myself from a lot of pain..

i have personally not tried naloxone but i have read a lot about it and considered asking my doctor to prescribe it alongside until i decided to apply will power ( and i think my will power has become significantly stronger on maois )

i suffer from chronic boredom too and that quest for reward.. very often i do end up taking the easy way out and smoke pot but i am trying to push myself to try other options such as a new hobby..pick up a musical instrument or some other challenging hobby where there is a reward at the end..

in reference to your desire to sleep with a girl..well it seems like you are experiencing an increase in your libido on parnate..if i were you i would not seek a cure for that ;) you may want to look into finding the right girlfriend and cure your boredom with sex..


> You're right. Now that I'm an 'addict', I am always in search of something to fill the void.
>
> I smoke occasionally. I find tobacco harder to resist on Parnate, though most of my impulsivity was linked to the initial euphoria. Now that it's passed, I feel either a little depressed or relatively 'normal' on 30mg a day and don't find myself craving much of anything. Still, I find myself engaging in certain addictive pastimes (surfing the web, etc.) out of compulsivity/boredom.
>
> When I said the girl was 'wrong', I meant that I would not date her. However, I find myself still wanting to sleep with her even though I know this would cause problems (she would expect me to date her, and there's some overlap in our friend circles, so it isn't a good decision in the long-term).
>
> > i think addictions develop as a coping mechanism for underlying problems (like social anxiety).. once that invisible line is crossed into being addicted then it is not so much about the underlying problem anymore because your brain circuitry gets modified over time. i dont even think addiction is about one particular drug at that point because after that line is crossed then even if you give up your primary addiction there is still a major void to be filled (anything that can release dopaine)... nardil can help fill that (not completely but for the most part)
> >
> > can nardil cure addictions at a biological level? absolutely not... i can confirm from my experience that it does not.. in fact an indulgence in any addictive behavior (which impacts your dopamine levels) can cause me to over indulge. if you already had an addiction you could be risking serious consequences.. i would also suggest that even if you did not have any addictions then you should be very careful when indulging in addictive behaviors... better to not risk it at all!
> >
> > however if you can manage to stay away from your past addiction and do not pick up another addiction to fill a void then being addiction free is a lot more easier... if that makes sense.
> >
> > prior to nardil i missed alcohol a lot... even a year of abstinence did not help with that feeling of missing that drug (alcohol) and looking at people who were drinkin and enjoying would make me crave it a lot....
> >
> > whereas on nardil you may experience cravings and it may be even harder to resist them at first but if you hang on tight then over time you will find that you dont even miss alcohol much...
> >
> > another example would be that nardil is used sometimes to cure addiction to tobacco.. i had similar experiences where if i indulged in tobacco i would binge but if i did not indulge in it i wouldnt crave it as much as i would without nardil.
> >
> >
> > > Scott, do you believe that anti-depressants (well, MAOIs in particular) can help treat addiction/impulsivity problems at a biological level, or would it depend more on the source (e.g. social anxiety)?
> >
> >
>
>


Go forward in thread:


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.