Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1012720

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Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!)

Posted by kagome on March 13, 2012, at 15:08:29

In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!) kagome, posted by sigismund on March 12, 2012, at 19:15:38


> You did not say how you slept before starting Parnate. How did you sleep?

Well to be honest I probably slept as much before as I did after, but before it was more like, "I cannot get out of bed and face another day." Then I just laid in bed and basically bored myself back to sleep for about 10-12 hours a day. But once I got up I would be up until late at night. After Parnate, I still sleep in but also get bone-weary and blood-tired (as they say) every early afternoon - usually only a few hours after being up - and I would nap until evening. That was probably more information than you were looking for, but thanks for asking!

Actually, surprisingly enough I seem to be doing a little better. I'm not sure if it's the Parnate, which I started titrating down because my blood pressure skyrocketed and stayed there, or the Abilify I started, but I'm guessing the latter or maybe a little of both. Now that Parnate seems to be working at least a little I have to figure out whether it's worth the side effects...

Anyway, thanks for your response!

 

Re: @toph JohnLA

Posted by Toph on March 13, 2012, at 15:20:18

In reply to @toph, posted by JohnLA on March 12, 2012, at 23:50:14

> sorry for the math lesson. i'm thinking you meant 1% of americans are on lithium?
>
> curious if i'm right! :)

"Approximately 0.1% of the US population is undergoing lithium treatment for psychiatric problems." -Medscape

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/242772-overview#a0199

The US Census bureau puts the US population at about 313,000,000.

I hope I did the rest of the math right John.

 

Lou's response- JohnLA

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:44:11

In reply to @toph, posted by JohnLA on March 12, 2012, at 23:50:14

Friends,
The site, ehealthme, is a site that collects stats and catalogs them accordingly.
Some confusion can result when death is the criteria looked at as a result from taking a drug.
Now in the case of lithium, one way to see a better understanding of death by lithium is to use the suicide attempt feature. You see, the compilation of stats are from [reported} events which I intend to clarify here unless the rule of three applies.
Lou
here is a link to the suicide attempt feature of ehealthme. This could clarif y some things here
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+attempt

 

Re: Lou's response-

Posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 16:50:03

In reply to Lou's response- JohnLA, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:44:11

You are ridiculous and your posts make no sense at all. All this info your posting is a bunch of BS. Why don't you just stop


> Friends,
> The site, ehealthme, is a site that collects stats and catalogs them accordingly.
> Some confusion can result when death is the criteria looked at as a result from taking a drug.
> Now in the case of lithium, one way to see a better understanding of death by lithium is to use the suicide attempt feature. You see, the compilation of stats are from [reported} events which I intend to clarify here unless the rule of three applies.
> Lou
> here is a link to the suicide attempt feature of ehealthme. This could clarif y some things here
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+attempt

 

Lou's response-death/Lithium/ehealthme

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:50:28

In reply to Lou's response- JohnLA, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:44:11

> Friends,
> The site, ehealthme, is a site that collects stats and catalogs them accordingly.
> Some confusion can result when death is the criteria looked at as a result from taking a drug.
> Now in the case of lithium, one way to see a better understanding of death by lithium is to use the suicide attempt feature. You see, the compilation of stats are from [reported} events which I intend to clarify here unless the rule of three applies.
> Lou
> here is a link to the suicide attempt feature of ehealthme. This could clarif y some things here
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+attempt

Friends,
Now let us look at the stats for those that take lithium and were sucessful at killing themselves. Then we could see more about the number of deaths in relation to taking lithium
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+completed.

 

Lou's response-death/Lithium/ehealthme/confuz

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:58:20

In reply to Lou's response-death/Lithium/ehealthme, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:50:28

> > Friends,
> > The site, ehealthme, is a site that collects stats and catalogs them accordingly.
> > Some confusion can result when death is the criteria looked at as a result from taking a drug.
> > Now in the case of lithium, one way to see a better understanding of death by lithium is to use the suicide attempt feature. You see, the compilation of stats are from [reported} events which I intend to clarify here unless the rule of three applies.
> > Lou
> > here is a link to the suicide attempt feature of ehealthme. This could clarif y some things here
> > http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+attempt
>
> Friends,
> Now let us look at the stats for those that take lithium and were sucessful at killing themselves. Then we could see more about the number of deaths in relation to taking lithium
> Lou
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+completed.

Friends,
Now let's see what the stats are for completed suicide by using a different search.
In the previous, I used {suicide+completed}}. Now let's see what the stats are if useing {completed+suicide]..Watch me now.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium/completed+suicide

 

Lou's response corrected-confuz

Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 17:02:33

In reply to Lou's response-death/Lithium/ehealthme/confuz, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:58:20

> > > Friends,
> > > The site, ehealthme, is a site that collects stats and catalogs them accordingly.
> > > Some confusion can result when death is the criteria looked at as a result from taking a drug.
> > > Now in the case of lithium, one way to see a better understanding of death by lithium is to use the suicide attempt feature. You see, the compilation of stats are from [reported} events which I intend to clarify here unless the rule of three applies.
> > > Lou
> > > here is a link to the suicide attempt feature of ehealthme. This could clarif y some things here
> > > http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+attempt
> >
> > Friends,
> > Now let us look at the stats for those that take lithium and were sucessful at killing themselves. Then we could see more about the number of deaths in relation to taking lithium
> > Lou
> > http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/suicide+completed.
>
> Friends,
> Now let's see what the stats are for completed suicide by using a different search.
> In the previous, I used {suicide+completed}}. Now let's see what the stats are if useing {completed+suicide]..Watch me now.
> Lou
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium/completed+suicide

Friends,
You see, the site has some issues in relation to how the earch is done.
Now let's see the corrected link as to the real number of people that killed themselves while taking Lithium. This also goes to the member that was confused with the site
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/completed+suicide

 

Everyone should ignore Lou Pilder

Posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 17:41:16

In reply to Lou's response-death/Lithium/ehealthme/confuz, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2012, at 16:58:20

Honestly guys I think it would be best if everyone ignored Lou, if he's not getting the attention he seems to thrive off of he might stop posting. Just a thought

 

Should everyone ignore anyone

Posted by Beckett on March 13, 2012, at 20:16:59

In reply to Everyone should ignore Lou Pilder, posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 17:41:16

I don't know. That feels a bit too divisive to be positive.

I wince to think of my own name in the thread header.

 

Re: Should everyone ignore anyone

Posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 20:36:36

In reply to Should everyone ignore anyone, posted by Beckett on March 13, 2012, at 20:16:59

> I don't know. That feels a bit too divisive to be positive.
>
> I wince to think of my own name in the thread header.

Well considering Lou brings nothing to the table but negativity and problems I don't see why that's so out of the question

 

And you're bringing what, exactly? (nm) Oioioi123

Posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2012, at 22:23:46

In reply to Re: Should everyone ignore anyone, posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 20:36:36

 

excuse me)?

Posted by oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 22:36:58

In reply to And you're bringing what, exactly? (nm) Oioioi123, posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2012, at 22:23:46

i ALWAYS try to help people to the best of my ability and give them respectfull and honest advice in a friendly manner with belittling them for takeing medications thank you very much. I go out of my way to try and help people in a time of need and provide them any advice i can cause i have been in very tough spots in my life. So that my friend is what i bring. I would NEVER put someone down in a time of need or ostracize them for using medication and quite frankly I dont appreciate your insinuation. Everybody has had enough of the way Lou treats people, i would NEVER make someone feel the way he makes others feel. Have a good night

 

and you're making Lou feel how, exactly? (nm) oioioi123

Posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2012, at 23:23:39

In reply to excuse me)?, posted by oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 22:36:58

 

Re: and you're making Lou feel how, exactly?

Posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 23:30:57

In reply to and you're making Lou feel how, exactly? (nm) oioioi123, posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2012, at 23:23:39

Lou doesn't seem to get it. Why don't you have the gull to actually MSG me. I don't really care how I'm makeing Lou feel to be perfect honest, I'm tired of seeing him belittle people and be extremely disrespectfull. I would never treat someone in a time of need like that. So say what you want garden girl I have no guilt here about how I'm acting towards him. It's about time someone stuck up for the members on the board Have a wonderfull night, I don't think we have anything more to say to each other ok? You obviously haven't been around long enough to see how he treats people

 

As the original poster of this thread...

Posted by kagome on March 14, 2012, at 0:25:48

In reply to Re: and you're making Lou feel how, exactly?, posted by Oioioi123 on March 13, 2012, at 23:30:57

I'm asking you all to please, please post about Lou somewhere else. It's disheartening to see a response and hope I'm getting some advice or support but instead am just privy to what seems to be an age old debate between Lou, his supporters, and those who disagree with him.

I'm not sure how much Lou actually cares - he didn't seem to respond with any empathy when I told him meds tend to stop me from killing myself when nothing else will, just posted reports of people having killed themselves while on meds - and to me that goes beyond a lack of support to a complete ignorance of triggers. Lou can post what he wants but when I'm having a day like today, all I can say is that I *extremely* appreciate posts in my support and am disappointed by posts that further derail the conversation into guilt-inducing one-liners to those very people offering support/defense. No one has to care about my situation, but please find another place to voice your thoughts on Lou/anti-meds/etc. Sorry to sound snippy but as I said before, it's been a day, and this stuff is just really triggering right now.

 

Re: As the original poster of this thread...

Posted by Oioioi123 on March 14, 2012, at 0:30:07

In reply to As the original poster of this thread..., posted by kagome on March 14, 2012, at 0:25:48

You are right, I'm very sorry. I pride myself on doing my best at trying to help people. And in my frustration with Lou I lost sight of this, I am very sorry and I will quit posting about him. That was very inconsiderate of me. And I can help you in any way please let me know

 

Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!)

Posted by SLS on March 14, 2012, at 0:47:02

In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!) kagome, posted by SLS on March 11, 2012, at 6:15:57

Oops.

> Prazosin blocks all three types of norepinephrine receptors: NE alpha-1a/b/d receptors.

For the sake of accuracy, I need to correct what I wrote here. There are more than three types of norepineprine receptors. I had meant to say that prazosin blocks all three types of NE alpha-1 receptors. There also exists alpha-2a/b/c, beta-1, beta-2, beta-3, etc.


- Scott

 

Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!)

Posted by papillon2 on March 14, 2012, at 3:03:09

In reply to New med advice? (sorry, long post!), posted by kagome on March 10, 2012, at 10:30:43

Hi Kagome,

I haven't read all the responses to your thread, they are a bit overwhelming! But from reading your initial post a few things spring to mind.

The first is that you may benefit from an anti-depressant which is more activating, to help with the hypersomnia and lack of motivation. I have melancholic depression, not atypical depression, but they share the symptoms of fatigue and leaden paralysis. Like you, SSRIs do nothing for me and Effexor was successful until it stopped working.

I found that Mirtazepine (Remeron/Avanza) gave me a significant boost in energy. This was from 45mg but mainly at 60mg. Doses up to I think 30mg (?) tend to be sedating, then something kicks in at higher doses and flips the energy switch. I don't know if it helps with social anxiety.

I have also benefited from Nortriptyline, which I switched to due to the side effects of Mirtazepine. However, I don't know how it compares to the other TCAs you have tried.

The other thing which stood out for me is your struggle with negative thoughts. I find that low dose Lithium helps with this, especially with my severe suicidal rumination. Lithium is often used in unipolar depression to augment an anti-depressant. Much lower doses are used than for those with bipolar disorder. You don't have to be on the bipolar spectrum to benefit from Lithium.

And for a non-medication approach, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and Dialectical Behaviour Therapy can be really beneficial for helping one deal with distress and to challenge automatic negative thoughts. I think CBT would be especially helpful for your social anxiety.

I am sorry to see that your thread has been somewhat derailed into another pro/anti medication/Lou debate. You have some good responses though, from some very knowledgeable and experienced posters. I hope their replies and my own give you some things to think about and that things start looking up for you soon. Until then, and always, please take gentle care of yourself.

Papillon

 

Re: As the original poster of this thread... kagome

Posted by gardenergirl on March 14, 2012, at 20:59:16

In reply to As the original poster of this thread..., posted by kagome on March 14, 2012, at 0:25:48

You're absolutely right. And I can empathize with the "it's been a day" thing. I never tried Parnate, but I did take Nardil for a few years. I switched to Cymbalta for a number of reasons, but I recently decided that wasn't for me, either, because it flattened me out too much. My atypical depression is now essentially untreated, which is probably a contributing factor, but not an excuse for why I posted what I did. I'm sorry.

 

Re: As the original poster of this thread...

Posted by kagome on March 14, 2012, at 23:57:41

In reply to Re: As the original poster of this thread..., posted by Oioioi123 on March 14, 2012, at 0:30:07

> You are right, I'm very sorry. I pride myself on doing my best at trying to help people. And in my frustration with Lou I lost sight of this, I am very sorry and I will quit posting about him. That was very inconsiderate of me. And I can help you in any way please let me know

You were actually one of the supporters/defenders that I was referring to, I was most frustrated by the unfair responses towards you. And thanks.

 

Re: As the original poster of this thread... gardenergirl

Posted by kagome on March 15, 2012, at 0:02:49

In reply to Re: As the original poster of this thread... kagome, posted by gardenergirl on March 14, 2012, at 20:59:16

> You're absolutely right. And I can empathize with the "it's been a day" thing. I never tried Parnate, but I did take Nardil for a few years. I switched to Cymbalta for a number of reasons, but I recently decided that wasn't for me, either, because it flattened me out too much. My atypical depression is now essentially untreated, which is probably a contributing factor, but not an excuse for why I posted what I did. I'm sorry.

Thanks,gardenergirl, I really appreciate it. I'm sorry to hear you're having troubles. I guess the only good thing about "having a day" is being able to talk about it with people that understand.

 

Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!) papillon2

Posted by kagome on March 15, 2012, at 0:09:31

In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!), posted by papillon2 on March 14, 2012, at 3:03:09

Thanks Papillion!

Unfortunately, due to anxiety about Parnate and the fact that I brought research on other medications to a meeting with my pdoc, she has decided I'm "obsessed" with meds (what the hell else am I supposed to talk about the the med doctor?) and so I won't be changing from Parnate and Abilify any time soon. I just really, really, hope they work. Soon. I'm still not sure about Parnate but I do think Abilify has been helping a little.

I do really like CBT, and have a great therapist. I always feel like therapy works so much better when my depression is at a manageable level but what can you do.

Thanks again for your help! And hope you're doing well.

 

Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!) kagome

Posted by SLS on March 15, 2012, at 6:07:32

In reply to Re: New med advice? (sorry, long post!) papillon2, posted by kagome on March 15, 2012, at 0:09:31

> Unfortunately, due to anxiety about Parnate and the fact that I brought research on other medications to a meeting with my pdoc, she has decided I'm "obsessed" with meds (what the hell else am I supposed to talk about the the med doctor?) and so I won't be changing from Parnate and Abilify any time soon. I just really, really, hope they work. Soon. I'm still not sure about Parnate but I do think Abilify has been helping a little.

Did I already ask you about adding Lamictal to the Parnate and Abilify you are currently taking?

My doctor does not think that I am obsessed about drugs so much as I am obsessed about getting well. He said that this is really to be expected in people who have not responded adequately to treatment. It is a matter of self-preservation and being proactive. For me, knowing that there were treatments yet untried gave me hope and convinced me that I had not reached a dead end. This was the result of my "obsession" with drugs. Without this "intense focus" (a more accurate term), perhaps I would not have chosen to live this long.


- Scott

 

Re: As the original poster of this thread... kagome

Posted by Beckett on March 15, 2012, at 9:08:07

In reply to As the original poster of this thread..., posted by kagome on March 14, 2012, at 0:25:48

I apologize for my lack of manners and sensitivity, kagome. You're right, of course. I wish you the best and hope you continue to respond to parnate and Abilify.

 

Re: the original poster

Posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2012, at 22:33:21

In reply to As the original poster of this thread..., posted by kagome on March 14, 2012, at 0:25:48

> I'm asking you all to please, please post about Lou somewhere else. It's disheartening to see a response and hope I'm getting some advice or support but instead am just privy to what seems to be an age old debate between Lou, his supporters, and those who disagree with him.
>
> No one has to care about my situation, but please find another place to voice your thoughts on Lou/anti-meds/etc. Sorry to sound snippy but as I said before, it's been a day, and this stuff is just really triggering right now.

Thanks for being clear about what you'd find supportive. I've moved posts about Lou to a new thread:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20120316/msgs/1014246.html

As you might expect, follow-ups regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks,

Bob


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