Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 994620

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Re: Viibrid Treatment » morgan miller

Posted by SLS on October 20, 2011, at 11:18:37

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment » SLS, posted by morgan miller on October 20, 2011, at 9:31:51

You guys are right. It is just that I am at that point in time that any left-over Nardil improvement would disappear. If, in another week, I am still experiencing any kind of improvement at all, even if episodic, I would be very encouraged and assume the best. At that point, I would see the peaks and valleys as a typical pattern of recovery for me.

For his patients, Dr. Robert M. Post once drew a graph on a piece of scrap paper using a pencil depicting an ascending saw-tooth line. This was to represent the pattern of recovery that they often saw in research patients at the NIH. I expect that my recovery will follow the same saw-tooth pattern.

This is a bit of an emotional rollercoaster ride. Feeling better as I do now, I have plenty of justification to continue with Viibryd for several more weeks before evaluating its effectiveness. I will try to be patient.

Thanks for your support.


- Scott


 

Re: Viibrid Treatment

Posted by morgan miller on October 20, 2011, at 11:44:12

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment » morgan miller, posted by SLS on October 20, 2011, at 11:18:37

Hang in there Scott. I'm hoping for the best man, you deserve it.

Morgan

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment » SLS

Posted by Chairman_MAO on October 24, 2011, at 21:04:46

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment » europerep, posted by SLS on October 19, 2011, at 13:05:11

> I'll look into that. I know there is at least one compound being developed that works like ketamine, but without the euphoria. I don't remember the name of it.

Memantine? If that's what you're thinking of, it's already been developed and if you haven't tried it you might want to consider giving it a go.

Best of luck.

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment » Chairman_MAO

Posted by SLS on October 25, 2011, at 19:07:42

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment » SLS, posted by Chairman_MAO on October 24, 2011, at 21:04:46

> > I'll look into that. I know there is at least one compound being developed that works like ketamine, but without the euphoria. I don't remember the name of it.
>
> Memantine? If that's what you're thinking of, it's already been developed and if you haven't tried it you might want to consider giving it a go.
>
> Best of luck.


Thanks.

I tried memantine once. I still have some left. It didn't help at 20mg when combined with Parnate, but it didn't hurt, either. I was reluctant to push it to 40mg because I felt drunk the first day I added an extra 20mg dose.

I might ask my doctor again about buprenorphine. He was not at all interested the first time I brought up the subject. I would prefer to try a few more things before heading down that road.


- Scott

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment

Posted by SLS on October 27, 2011, at 5:15:11

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment » Chairman_MAO, posted by SLS on October 25, 2011, at 19:07:42

Damn it.

I have been stuck for the past few days. I lost a significant amount of the improvement that Viibryd had given me. I was excited there for a little while, especially when I began to experience boredom. Right now, I have little hope that this stuff will work. Of course, I could be pleasantly surprised and begin feeling better once again.

This next 7 days is critical. I believe that this is the window of time within which any true antidepressant response to Viibryd should appear more robustly. I can't yet conclude with certainty that the drug won't work, but I am not very hopeful. As I've said before, I have the patience to continue taking Viibryd, but not the patience to remain optimistic.


- Scott

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment » SLS

Posted by floatingbridge on October 27, 2011, at 6:42:53

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment, posted by SLS on October 27, 2011, at 5:15:11

Scott, it's saw teeth. I hear the colors are not their best this autumn. Maybe go for a ride somewhere lovely. If weather permits, shuffle through some leaves. They have a distinctive smell. Not the same here at all. Smell is primitive. I'd love you to be surprised.

 

Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ?

Posted by SLS on October 28, 2011, at 7:11:29

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment, posted by SLS on October 27, 2011, at 5:15:11


I continue to deteriorate.

Has anyone found 80mg to be more effective than 40mg?


- Scott


> Damn it.
>
> I have been stuck for the past few days. I lost a significant amount of the improvement that Viibryd had given me. I was excited there for a little while, especially when I began to experience boredom. Right now, I have little hope that this stuff will work. Of course, I could be pleasantly surprised and begin feeling better once again.
>
> This next 7 days is critical. I believe that this is the window of time within which any true antidepressant response to Viibryd should appear more robustly. I can't yet conclude with certainty that the drug won't work, but I am not very hopeful. As I've said before, I have the patience to continue taking Viibryd, but not the patience to remain optimistic.

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ?

Posted by SLS on October 29, 2011, at 20:25:00

In reply to Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ?, posted by SLS on October 28, 2011, at 7:11:29

I am experiencing an intensification of depression and anxiety. I think I feel worse now than I did before starting Viibryd. I am thinking about aborting the trial.


- Scott

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ?

Posted by Conundrum on October 29, 2011, at 20:32:48

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ?, posted by SLS on October 29, 2011, at 20:25:00

> I am experiencing an intensification of depression and anxiety. I think I feel worse now than I did before starting Viibryd. I am thinking about aborting the trial.
>
>
> - Scott

Perhaps you felt better at 20mg in the beginning? I felt better on 50mg pristiq than 100mg even though you'd think more is better. Sometimes more is more numbing or has more side effects and it becomes a wash.

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ? » Conundrum

Posted by SLS on October 29, 2011, at 20:46:05

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ?, posted by Conundrum on October 29, 2011, at 20:32:48

> > I am experiencing an intensification of depression and anxiety. I think I feel worse now than I did before starting Viibryd. I am thinking about aborting the trial.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Perhaps you felt better at 20mg in the beginning? I felt better on 50mg pristiq than 100mg even though you'd think more is better. Sometimes more is more numbing or has more side effects and it becomes a wash.


Since I have an appointment to see my doctor in two days, I think I'll skip tomorrow's dose.

Which drug do you think is more effective for you: Pristiq or Effexor?

Thanks.


- Scott

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ? » SLS

Posted by Conundrum on October 29, 2011, at 20:51:40

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ? » Conundrum, posted by SLS on October 29, 2011, at 20:46:05

> > > I am experiencing an intensification of depression and anxiety. I think I feel worse now than I did before starting Viibryd. I am thinking about aborting the trial.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Perhaps you felt better at 20mg in the beginning? I felt better on 50mg pristiq than 100mg even though you'd think more is better. Sometimes more is more numbing or has more side effects and it becomes a wash.
>
>
> Since I have an appointment to see my doctor in two days, I think I'll skip tomorrow's dose.
>
> Which drug do you think is more effective for you: Pristiq or Effexor?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - Scott

I've never tried effexor so I can't be of much help. Some people do respond to pristiq better from what I have seen on other forums though and some don't do as well on pristiq as effexor. So it is worth a shot. Have you ever tried ixel/milnacipran? I've wondered how that compares to the other SNRIs.

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ?

Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2011, at 21:30:36

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ? » SLS, posted by Conundrum on October 29, 2011, at 20:51:40

Seriously sorry. One old poster had ECT on all the Maois. Is now back to working on prozac? Maybe back to the very beginning? Phillipa

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ? » Conundrum

Posted by SLS on October 30, 2011, at 1:08:45

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ? » SLS, posted by Conundrum on October 29, 2011, at 20:51:40

> > > > I am experiencing an intensification of depression and anxiety. I think I feel worse now than I did before starting Viibryd. I am thinking about aborting the trial.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > > Perhaps you felt better at 20mg in the beginning? I felt better on 50mg pristiq than 100mg even though you'd think more is better. Sometimes more is more numbing or has more side effects and it becomes a wash.
> >
> >
> > Since I have an appointment to see my doctor in two days, I think I'll skip tomorrow's dose.
> >
> > Which drug do you think is more effective for you: Pristiq or Effexor?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> I've never tried effexor so I can't be of much help. Some people do respond to pristiq better from what I have seen on other forums though and some don't do as well on pristiq as effexor. So it is worth a shot. Have you ever tried ixel/milnacipran? I've wondered how that compares to the other SNRIs.


I tried milnacipran a few years ago. I found it to be totally inert. I really don't remember much about it. I'll have to look back on my notes to see if I wrote anything.

I used log my experiences and take notes at every doctor visit. I haven't done that regularly for the past few years, though. I began to feel that it was futile, so I just stopped investing the time and energy.


- Scott

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg » SLS

Posted by SLS on October 31, 2011, at 13:39:08

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Anyone have success at 80mg ? » Conundrum, posted by SLS on October 30, 2011, at 1:08:45

I saw my doctor today. He wants me to increase the dosage of Viibryd to 60 mg.

Thinking positive...


- Scott

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg » SLS

Posted by floatingbridge on October 31, 2011, at 14:52:19

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg » SLS, posted by SLS on October 31, 2011, at 13:39:08

Fingers crossed. Did you not go to 80mg yet?

Good luck.

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg

Posted by joe schmoe on October 31, 2011, at 15:02:35

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg » SLS, posted by SLS on October 31, 2011, at 13:39:08

> I saw my doctor today. He wants me to increase the dosage of Viibryd to 60 mg.
>
> Thinking positive...
>
>
> - Scott


Good luck.

I have noticed with Viibryd that there seems to be an unusually long series of side effect periods at each dosage. For example after going from 10 to 20 I might have loose stools for a week, then tiredness for a week, then dizziness for two weeks, etc. It seemed to take a VERY long time to figure out what a dose really would feel like in the long run, as it took weeks and weeks to "shake out" the side effects, which often manifested in a series one at a time instead of all at once. Very strange.

The social-anxiety-inducing effects seem to have finally calmed down for me at 20 mg. I underwent the ultimate stress test for me (a job interview) and, thanks to clonazepam, had no difficulty despite some anxiety problems in the past with Viibryd. I was at 40 for awhile (months I think) but it still felt "trippy" and activating so I think I am better off at 20. At 40 mg I don't even like going shopping in a store.

If it is making you anxious, I would be surprised if increasing the dosage will help, but this is a peculiar medicine, for sure, so who knows.

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg » floatingbridge

Posted by SLS on October 31, 2011, at 15:23:19

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on October 31, 2011, at 14:52:19

> Fingers crossed. Did you not go to 80mg yet?

No. I had thought to, but decided to wait.

Patience can be a real pain in the derrière.

> Good luck.

Thanks. I could use some.


- Scott

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg » joe schmoe

Posted by SLS on October 31, 2011, at 15:25:16

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg, posted by joe schmoe on October 31, 2011, at 15:02:35

Hey, Joe.

Thanks for sharing your experience and insight. It really helps.


- Scott

> I have noticed with Viibryd that there seems to be an unusually long series of side effect periods at each dosage. For example after going from 10 to 20 I might have loose stools for a week, then tiredness for a week, then dizziness for two weeks, etc. It seemed to take a VERY long time to figure out what a dose really would feel like in the long run, as it took weeks and weeks to "shake out" the side effects, which often manifested in a series one at a time instead of all at once. Very strange.
>
> The social-anxiety-inducing effects seem to have finally calmed down for me at 20 mg. I underwent the ultimate stress test for me (a job interview) and, thanks to clonazepam, had no difficulty despite some anxiety problems in the past with Viibryd. I was at 40 for awhile (months I think) but it still felt "trippy" and activating so I think I am better off at 20. At 40 mg I don't even like going shopping in a store.
>
> If it is making you anxious, I would be surprised if increasing the dosage will help, but this is a peculiar medicine, for sure, so who knows.

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg

Posted by floatingbridge on October 31, 2011, at 16:31:28

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on October 31, 2011, at 15:23:19

>Patience can be a real pain in the derrière.


I've noticed it can make time pass very slowly....

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg

Posted by Phillipa on October 31, 2011, at 19:39:31

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg, posted by floatingbridge on October 31, 2011, at 16:31:28

Scott hope this works well at the lower dose. What was his rationale at dropping the dose? Seems so many docs are using lower doses of meds today. Phillipa

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg

Posted by Phillipa on October 31, 2011, at 19:55:29

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment - Increase to 60 mg, posted by Phillipa on October 31, 2011, at 19:39:31

Looking at post title above was thinking you already were at 80mg so it's increased to 60mg? Hoping this works well. Phillipa

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment » SLS

Posted by Chairman_MAO on October 31, 2011, at 21:29:16

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment » Chairman_MAO, posted by SLS on October 25, 2011, at 19:07:42


> I tried memantine once. I still have some left. It didn't help at 20mg when combined with Parnate, but it didn't hurt, either. I was reluctant to push it to 40mg because I felt drunk the first day I added an extra 20mg dose.

I fear you may have titrated up too quickly.
You could try acamprosate--it seems quite benign on paper.

>
> I might ask my doctor again about buprenorphine. He was not at all interested the first time I brought up the subject. I would prefer to try a few more things before heading down that road.
>
>
I'm sure he wasn't interested. ;-)

The only thing I can tell you for sure is that the phenelzine + amphetamine + buprenorphine combination (and 2mg lorazepam qhs plus hctz for water retention) was the best cocktail I have ever taken. Just amazing.

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment » Chairman_MAO

Posted by hyperfocus on November 1, 2011, at 12:07:44

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment » SLS, posted by Chairman_MAO on October 31, 2011, at 21:29:16

It feels amazing but is that sustainable? Wouldn't your receptors burn out or something, and/or you become chemically dependent on the cocktail? Not the bupe but the lorazepam and amphetamine.

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment » hyperfocus

Posted by Conundrum on November 1, 2011, at 16:40:39

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment » Chairman_MAO, posted by hyperfocus on November 1, 2011, at 12:07:44

> It feels amazing but is that sustainable? Wouldn't your receptors burn out or something, and/or you become chemically dependent on the cocktail? Not the bupe but the lorazepam and amphetamine.

Technically someone who takes an antidepressant their whole life is chemically dependent on it right? I'd be more concerned about the burning out part than being dependent unless it requires constant dose increases.

 

Re: Viibrid Treatment » hyperfocus

Posted by Chairman_MAO on November 3, 2011, at 19:49:23

In reply to Re: Viibrid Treatment » Chairman_MAO, posted by hyperfocus on November 1, 2011, at 12:07:44

> It feels amazing but is that sustainable? Wouldn't your receptors burn out or something, and/or you become chemically dependent on the cocktail? Not the bupe but the lorazepam and amphetamine.

If by "sustainable" you mean felt the same way for over two years, then yes, it was sustainable. Receptors don't necessarily automagically "burn out". The lorazepam I was not dependent on because I was only taking it for sleep. I stopped it with one night of insomnia.

Coming off of Nardil was worse than coming off of buprenorphine. There is virtually no withdrawal with the dose of amphetamine (60mg/day) that I take. I recently had to stop it to start Marplan, and I didn't even have to alter my daily routine.

Anyone taking any drug for a prolonged period of time is to some extent physiologically dependent on it; doesn't matter if it's Prozac, Nardil, Oxycontin, whatever.


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